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Old 08-17-2004, 02:00 AM
 
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cool, i wasn't 100% sure how you meant it.
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:10 AM
 
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Thats ok.. I like to clarify

Single Mom to 2 amazing little men. T(7) and B(5)
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerrillamama
only if you believe all lesbians hate men ... which is equally untrue...



yo, i would love to have a little discourse w/ y'all about the praxis of anti-authoritarian gender-bending radical feminist parenting... i would start up that thread right now except it's a bad bad time. way too much to do in the next coupla weeks. i shouldn't get on the computer at all in the next coupla weeks in fact. anyway, i'll start that thread when i come back to the cyberworld, k? if somebody else beats me to it please save some of the juicy bits for me

yeah, yeah!

I'd try to start such a thing but my head is all fuzzy from a trying family vacation...if anyne else gets it goin' wouldja pm me so i don't miss it???

megan thanks for bringing up gender issues.

and guerillamom thanks for this:

"to me it is all interconnected. i don't understand feminists who, for example, say they don't care - or don't care as much - about racism because they are into "women's issues?" huh??? (to quote, gloria hull, "all the women are white, all the blacks are men... but some of us are brave.") i don't understand how you can not see queer liberation as a feminist issue. i don't understand how you cannot see fighting poverty as a feminist issue. and the mainstream feminist movement (again, if it is a movement) is still pretty spooked of these things. i mean, hillary rodham clinton is not my poster girl, ok?"
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Old 08-17-2004, 06:34 AM
 
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Gay rights and poverty are two of the National Organization for Women's biggest issues.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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Old 08-17-2004, 06:56 AM
 
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Yes, I am a feminist and I too believe if a woman isn't a feminist she is fooling herself! If you believe in equal rights, then you are a feminist in my books!

Mom to 4! Welcomed Aila Wren on Friday, February 25th!
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Old 08-17-2004, 03:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadie_sabot
yeah, yeah!

I'd try to start such a thing but my head is all fuzzy from a trying family vacation...if anyne else gets it goin' wouldja pm me so i don't miss it???
Me too...I'm VERY interested in this...especially the anti-authoritarian part. I couldn't start it because I wouldn't know where to begin...but I'd be a very active lurker there.
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Old 08-17-2004, 04:46 PM
 
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*disclaimer* hey all you "i'm not a feminist but..." lurkers: i do NOT speak for the feminist movement as a whole, the feminists on this board, or anybody but my own sweet self. if i confirm all your most horrible fears about how feminists seek to tear apart the very foundations of society, please do not hold it against any other feminist. :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sustainer
Gay rights and poverty are two of the National Organization for Women's biggest issues.
ok, i made some very broad statements that i don't have the time to adequately back up or explain. for now, let me just say that on the one hand, i want a radical feminist movement that addresses the root causes of poverty (which i don't see NOW doing); that has an analysis of power and privilege and the way all these oppressions interlock; that encourages honesty and accountability from whites (women and men) in regards to racism and from straights (women and men) in regards to homophobia. [you might well ask what does that high-falutin theory look like in real life, and i would have some answers but jeesh that would take lots and lots more explaining of my analysis... not today ]

ok and on the other hand, we're struggling to have any kind of feminist movement at all, and we're still fighting this stupid stereotypes of feminists as frigid man-hating sociopaths. :

gay marriage is a feminist issue and a human rights issue and i am all for it. at the same time, i'm dismayed by the LACK of critique of the insitution of marriage in the midst of this gay marriage debate. as long as we have an insitution of marriage queer couples should get the same benefits, otherwise it's 2nd class citizenship in my book. but why do we have an institution of marriage anyway? what purpose does it serve? why the obsession w/ the nuclear family? what purpose does that serve? where did it come from?

freedom of choice? you bet! we are holding on to roe v. wade by a hair, and that is way scary. but whose choice are we talking about? choose to do what? [when i started telling people i was pregnant, why did some people - including self-identified feminists - say, "but i thought you were a feminist?" meaning, apparently, that believing in the right to abortion means you are *required* to have an abortion??? ] the right to abortion is just the tip of the iceberg. what about the reproductive rights of poor women and women of color sterilized against their will or presssured into taking birth control? how can we seriously talk about reproductive rights when most of us don't have access to decent health care?

equal pay for equal work? of course! but while we're at it, can't we examine which work gets paid at all, and why? i believe parenthood and housework should be compensated; the equal pay agenda won't help there. migrant farmworkers are slaving away so we can have cheap strawberries, dying from preventable diseases and getting beaten up by foremen and immigration agents, but they're getting equal pay for work, female farmworkers get the same below-minimum-wage pay as their husbands.

all across NYC, domestic workers (usually immigrant women of color) work for way below minimum wage, day and night, taking care of the children of white professional women who call themselves feminists. that's difficult to reconcile.

the culture and language of feminism is still very alienating to many women of color and working class women. here's a quote from bell hooks

They did not want the issue of racism raised because they did not want to deflect attention away from their projection of the white woman as "good", i.e., non-racist victim, and the white man as "bad", i.e., racist oppressor. .... To those who saw feminism solely as a way to demand entrance into the white male power structure, it simplfied matters to make all men oppressors and all women victims.

that quote aptly describes a lot of interactions i have had w/ self-identified feminists. it also describes the apprehensions that a lot of people of color have about feminism.

:

ok, that was random and rambling.... i have a complicated relationship w/ feminism. i don't always feel comfortable in feminist "spaces." in my personal experience, i have felt more comfortable and effective struggling against sexism in "anti-racist" movements/spaces, than struggling against racism in "feminist" movements/spaces. of course that is only my experience (and that dichotomy i just set up is kind of problematic, but oh well).

BUT I AM A FEMINIST.

by way of analogy ... i have a complicated relationship w/ my mother. we fight. i disagree w/ her on many things. sometimes i'm disappointed in her. but i am still proud to be her daughter, and i love her more than anyone besides my child and my sister.

sorry that was so incoherent. i really don't have time for this! i really need to stay OFF MDC!!!!!

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Old 08-17-2004, 05:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamadawg
I'd be a very active lurker there.
is that an oxymoron? :LOL:
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Old 08-17-2004, 06:01 PM
 
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Wouldn't it be nice if we could go back and rename "feminism."

Generally, if a school of thought is named after a certain group or belief, there is the assumption that its adherents support that group/belief over and above, or in exclusion to, other groups/beliefs.

So, feminism isn't interpreted as about making women *equal* but about women being *better* than men. Because of this, for a long time I would identify as a "humanist" rather than a feminisit. Now, though, for myself I think that "feminism" is the route to the equality I hope to obtain for our society.

 

 

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Old 08-17-2004, 06:19 PM
 
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I’m here and I also don't see how anyone - male or female - could not be a feminist.

I also tend to be on the side of seeing all of these issues as humanist issues.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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Old 08-17-2004, 06:22 PM
 
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maybe part of the confusion is this: feminism requires not only the belief that all humans, male and female, are equal and should be treated equally... but also that SEXISM is a barrier to that equality.

so, maybe those that say "i'm not a feminist but..." just don't think sexism is a problem?

i don't know, i'm trying to figure it out.

but i'm supposed to be staying away from MDC! jeesh!
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Old 08-17-2004, 06:23 PM
 
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guerillamom:

well said. Thanks.
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Old 08-17-2004, 06:31 PM
 
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so, maybe those that say "i'm not a feminist but..." just don't think sexism is a problem?
Wow, what a fascinating idea.

The link between sexism and a *need* for feminism seem so fundamentally linked, but if you did not see that link, your view would be so different. Going to have to ponder that a long while, thanks.

 

 

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Old 08-17-2004, 06:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerrillamama
maybe part of the confusion is this: feminism requires not only the belief that all humans, male and female, are equal and should be treated equally... but also that SEXISM is a barrier to that equality.

so, maybe those that say "i'm not a feminist but..." just don't think sexism is a problem?

i don't know, i'm trying to figure it out
I think you've figured it out, guerrillamama. I couldn't bridge that gap in my own head, but that's it, isn't it?
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Old 08-17-2004, 06:44 PM
 
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Whew, I'm late here....I thought this was another one of those "I'm leaving" threads. Haven't read the whole thread, but just wanted to say Me, dp, and my two ds's are all proud feminists!

I just wanted to say not only do we need to work on creating equality between everyone, but equality between women! Ok, thats all I'm gonna say, because I haven't read the whole thread.

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Old 08-17-2004, 10:25 PM
 
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Guerrillamama!

Quote:
frigid man-hating sociopaths

I LOVED this so much I'm gonna put it in my sig line (unless you have any objections).

And now, back to :
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Old 08-17-2004, 11:10 PM
 
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I'm here, and feminist, and I'm super-vexed at what I'm assuming the OP was referring to. My pet peeve is when people post pretending they're open-minded and trying to learn something and their response proves the exact opposite. Not trolling--and legal--but about as annoying in my book.

Beth, DS (4), DD (19 mos.)
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Old 08-18-2004, 12:30 AM
 
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Hi Everyone,

More great posts! I just had to comment on a couple of them:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjismom
I'm here, and feminist, and I'm super-vexed at what I'm assuming the OP was referring to. My pet peeve is when people post pretending they're open-minded and trying to learn something and their response proves the exact opposite. Not trolling--and legal--but about as annoying in my book.
Beth, DS (4), DD (19 mos.)
Beth,
Thank you for saying this! I have to agree with you on this one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamaya
I just wanted to say not only do we need to work on creating equality between everyone, but equality between women!
Another well stated post! Thank you mamamaya for posting the words I was trying to find!
I feel so much better and proud after reading the great posts here. Thanks again Mahdokht for starting this thread.

"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail..."
"I am learning all the time, the tombstone will be my diploma"- Eartha Kitt
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Old 08-18-2004, 04:39 AM
 
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Coming in late to say "Me too, me too!"

I like shopping and wearing make-up, I'm a sahm who cooks, does crafts, breastfeeds and cleans (well, sometimes...), I take care of my DDDDDH as well as my children. And I'm a feminist. So is my DH, so is my DD, and I imagine, so will my DS be.

I embrace myself, my children, my husband and my friends as INDIVIDUALS. I recognise personal strengths and traits. The gender of a person does not lead me to believe that they must possess certain characteristics.

Until people stop asking to speak to the head of the household (telemarketers) when I answer the phone (but never ask DH), then women aren't equal. [of course, there are many other ways that women are shown they aren't equal, but in my life, this is the most obvious - and highly annoying one!]
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Old 08-18-2004, 10:32 AM
 
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I haven't read the thread but just wanted to join the feminist club! I have always defined myself as a feminist and will hopefully raise my daughter to think of herself in the same way.

Still fighting the fight that needs to be fought!

Mama to two wonderful daughers: 02/03/03 and 10/19/05
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girlndocs
Guerrillamama!




I LOVED this so much I'm gonna put it in my sig line (unless you have any objections).

And now, back to :

:

yeah, and you wear combat boots too! :nana:
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Old 08-18-2004, 09:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerrillamama
yeah, and you wear combat boots too! :nana:
:LOL :LOL :LOL
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