*UPDATED AGAIN* CPS question and parents right to choose medical care - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 05:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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*UPDATE IN POST 20*
*Update #2 in post 25*


I'm asking this for an MDC mama who doesn't have internet access right now and she's sitting trapped at the hospital ER to boot.

She has newborn twins and one is having apnea problems so they took him to the ER, that was Saturday night. She's has requested a transfer to the children's hospital an hour away and they refuse to transfer him since they can treat him there but they don't seem to be able to do it in a timely manner, she's now been sitting in a hospital ER room for over 2 days and they even had the nerve to send in a social worker to tell her they would call CPS and take the baby if she tried to leave AMA with the baby to go to another hospital. This evening they told her there is a room available up on the peds floor BUT, they will not admit the baby if she insists on keeping the babies together (not asking to admit the other baby) so she can nurse them (they take 30-45 min to nurse) and they do much better together. They say she is putting the "healthy" baby's life at risk by refusing to send it home with her DH. She argues that it doesn't really matter because both babies will end up getting sick if one gets sick and I agree. She can't send the other baby home then bring it back in after the "sick" baby is settled because peds is a locked unit at that hospital and no one under 14 is allowed this time of year due to RSV.

I know I have talked to CPS in the past and I was told that as long as you take the baby directly from hospital A to hospital B (were not talking this child is in serious danger, he recovers from the bradys on his own or responds quickly to stimulation so its not like taking a kid off life support or something) they would not intervene. Is this correct? Its a little insane what's going on there. All she wants is to either get treatment (most likely just needs an apnea monitor as her 1st child did) or be transferred to the children's hospital. I've suggested just leaving AMA and going straight to the children's hospital where even if they do need to separate the babies its not a big deal because dad and baby can stay at Ronald McDonald House which is on the hospital campus and like a 3 minute walk from the peds floor vs. her driving 40 min every 2 hours to nurse for 45 min then rush back to feed the other baby and leaves the problem of who's going to watch the hospitalized baby while she's gone? Can she safely walk out AMA if she goes straight to children's hospital? She's getting tired and dispirited at this point, I've never seen her so down before and I've seen her though a lot. The pediatrician does not have any admit privileges in that town so she's no help.

What advice would you give this mom?

Seriously?
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#2 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 07:38 AM
 
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I would tell her to call CPS herself, explain the situation and tell them her plan is to bring the baby directly to the other hospital. The reason she's calling is because hospital one is going to report her and she wants them to know what's going on.

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#3 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 08:05 AM
 
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I agree, that sounds like a good idea.

What's up with that hospital doing that to her!
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#4 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 08:15 AM
 
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I agree - maybe CPS can do something about it, especially about the fact that she's been sitting there for two days! I've never heard of such a thing!
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#5 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 08:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicia622
I would tell her to call CPS herself, explain the situation and tell them her plan is to bring the baby directly to the other hospital. The reason she's calling is because hospital one is going to report her and she wants them to know what's going on.

That's right, beat them to it, it's always good to take things into your own hands...I don't understand the stance of the hospital.

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#6 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 09:06 AM
 
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Definitely call cps. I'd also call someone at the Children's Hospital, like a social worker or the head of pediatrics, and explain the situation to her. I'm betting that if some at Children's Hospital is demanding that the baby be transfered to their facility, hospital #1 would be hard pressed to say no.

Let us know what happens.
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#7 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 09:30 AM
 
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Hope it works out! Stupid hospital #1....

Mum to DS (8yrs), DD (6yrs), and DS(3.5yrs). kid.gif

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#8 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 11:18 AM
 
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It might help too, if she called the children's hospital, and got everything set up, and then called cps to tell them what's going on. That way she can show that she has every intention of getting her baby the appropriate medical care, and the children's hospital may even know how to handle a situation like this. Good luck, sending her strength and health to both babies.

 
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#9 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 11:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by race_kelly
It might help too, if she called the children's hospital, and got everything set up, and then called cps to tell them what's going on. That way she can show that she has every intention of getting her baby the appropriate medical care, and the children's hospital may even know how to handle a situation like this. Good luck, sending her strength and health to both babies.
I agree with this. Good luck to her.
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#10 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 11:29 AM
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Iagree with the others. Call CPS, call the childrens hospital and REPORT the doc in charge at this one.
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#11 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 11:30 AM
 
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Wow, that's just awful! I also agree to contact CPS first, because it sounds like they are using it as a scare tactic. I can't imagine any judge actually taking a child away from a mom for taking the baby to a better equipped/capable hospital. That would make me mad enough to leave without even waiting for AMA papers, because it seems they would just try to postpone it as long as possible. Please keep us updated! What state is she in, btw?

And maybe I'm crazy, but a "healthy" baby cannot CATCH apnea. That's so stupid. I can understand concerns of RSV, but if the baby is obviously healthy, they should be fine with it, especially with them being siblings. Besides, sick twins do much better if the other twin is near, especially when co-sleeping, right?
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#12 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 12:19 PM
 
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satori,

Tell her to go CPS right away and sue the hospital big time. Thank you.
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#13 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 01:43 PM
 
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Hospital #1 (a.k.a. the Great Big Ogre Hospital) doesn't have a leg to stand on. If a patient requests a transfer, they have a right to that transfer, assuming the other hospital will accept the patient. I think she's fine going AMA, although I think it's reasonable to call CPS and give them a heads up if she thinks the ogres are going to report her. Hugs to your friend.

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#14 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 01:50 PM
 
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Calling CPS first is a good idea, because the hospital CAN call in CPS and prevent you from taking your child out AMA.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19 (in Israel for another school year), Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 12(homeschooled)
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#15 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 01:57 PM
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I was in a similar situation. I was three hours from the hospital I wanted to be in, but they would not allow a transfer, called the other hospital. I don't know what they said, but my Doctor at that hospital called and told me they would not accept a transfer and CPS had already been called.

That was in 2002, for BREASTFEEDING my newborn!

Hospitals and Doctors can be so sometimes.

When I talked to my Doctor later, he said it had something to do with Liability insurance, and the first hospital would be able to sue the second hospital, or get it in trouble. It sounded like BS to me.

There really should be a Patient Advocate person at the ER who might help get the ball rolling for treatment, at least.
This really might be a situation where you get the mom a videocamera and tape the whole thing. Have an advocate there for her and baby and demand the hospital staff to treat the baby and allow it's sibling to stay, kwim?
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#16 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 03:58 PM
 
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They have been in the ER for 2 days? That's pathetic! Either treat the baby, or send him to another hospital. If I were the mama, I do believe I would call the childrens hospital,and tell them that I was coming in, and ask to have a room ready. When that was settled, I would then quietly tell the next nurse that popped her head int eh room that I was leave, and leave! All that said, when you are a mama who is trying to do the best for her child (ren), and a medical Dr. is telling you you are wrong, it makes it hard to make those decisions. Please give this mama some support! I had a friend in a similar situation when her DS was born. She regrets so much of what happened, and really feels bad that she did not stand up to the Dr.s (she is a nurse, too, so she really knew what she was talking about).

for the baby and mama!
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#17 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 04:37 PM
 
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Being a nurse who used to work in a hospital, can I suggest:
have mom ask to talk to the hospital's risk manager STAT, start yelling if she has to. (the risk mgr is the person who tries to smooth things over when there is something happenin that is a potential for lawsuit) I would have her tell the RM what has been going on and let said RM know that she (mom) will sue if they even try to call cps, as she will be going straight to xyz other hospital for care (and she needs to outline all of the reasons why).
Sometimes overzealous hospital personnell seem to think that the patients are their property and forget that they are human beings with a choice in their care. (or the care of their children).
If I were mom i would then demand that another pedi at the other hospital be contacted and become the accepting MD for the care of this child. That way a hospital to hospital transfer is set up and will "assure" the staff that the child will recieve continued care. Or, she can try to contact a ped herself and do this (like, if her "regular" ped that knows her has priveleges at xyz hospital) She probably won't get too far doing it herself, though, just cold calling.
If the attending doc refuses to do this, if I were mom, I would write down on a piece of paper what she has requested and write "all reasonable requests for transfer of care denied" and the reasons given and I would try to force to RM amd MD to sign it. Bet this will get things moving...
They also can't force mom to sign ama papers, she can just walk out. They will chart this as "going AWOL". But if her child is really not in the condition to be moved withoput medical assist, I would be careful about how she goes about leaving.
Keeping a child in the ER for 2 days is sub-standard care. totally unacceptable.
hth

eta - also mom needs to be very clear in telling RM that she does not appreciate being threatened with a cps call by social work. That is intimidation, blackmail, and VERY unethical.
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#18 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 05:09 PM
 
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Like Dove said, either speak with RM or hospital Ombud. Make it VERY clear that these threats are empty and she knows it.
I would call CPS and let them know that not only is the hospital threatening her but also that her baby is not getting the care it needs--adn right now the hospital is in control of that--it is the responsibility of CPS to ensure that child receives appropriate care.
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#19 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 05:55 PM
 
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Go straight to Hospital B. What is CPS going to do to her for going to a better hospital?

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13yo ds   10yo dd  8yo ds and 6yo ds and 1yo ds  
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#20 of 36 Old 01-31-2006, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just talked to her and after 3 days of being stuck there they let her go this morning saying baby was fine so she's home now and taking the babies to see the pedi this afternoon for a check up. I think i'll be skipping the hospitals here and going stright to childrens if this new babe has any problems after this.

Seriously?
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#21 of 36 Old 02-01-2006, 12:49 AM
 
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oh my- good to hear she is home!
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#22 of 36 Old 02-01-2006, 12:56 AM
 
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I'm glad it's resolved. I think I would have called my ped to hopefully sort it out. I virtually always take my kids to Children's anyway.
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#23 of 36 Old 02-01-2006, 01:39 AM
 
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What an ugly situation, but I'm glad it turned out okay and the babe is home and doing better.

, , , mama to Ross , Reagan (8/29/05), Joshua (from Haiti...here NOW due to the earthquake!), and Elijah , born safely 9-8-09.
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#24 of 36 Old 02-01-2006, 03:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicia622
I would tell her to call CPS herself, explain the situation and tell them her plan is to bring the baby directly to the other hospital. The reason she's calling is because hospital one is going to report her and she wants them to know what's going on.
I thinnk she should call her own pediatrician and then her lawyer.

Why CPS?


Yes, because we all know that CPS is G-d and owns our children anyway, so lets call CPS and let them know that CPS at the hospital is already threatening her with taking the baby away.

Social workers work together and they not let a mother stand between them.

That makes no sense at all.

I would tell them I will sue the hospital if anything happens to my child because I could not leave and get better treatment. And demand my records.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#25 of 36 Old 02-02-2006, 12:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well after she got home she still felt strongly that something was wrong with the baby so they packed up and headed to children's hospital. Now the hospital is swamped due to RSV season and you can easily expect a several hour wait. Due to his condition when she arrived (which was pretty much the same as when she left the first hospital a few hours before) he was fast tracked or what ever and within 2 hours of arriving he was admitted to the hospital. Now here's the fun part, at the 1st hospital when I went to see them I mentioned his breathing seemed kinda fast and she agreed but the hospital didn't (we both have kids with lung issues). His chest was feeling junky to me even through his swaddling, hospital said he was fine. Get to children's and guess what the pedi hears? snap, crackle, pop! He needs to be suctioned and he's got crap in his lungs, they think he's got RSV despite a neg test at this point. Moms been worried about the baby having NEC which is a serious preemie issue, hospital #1 says no, ped agree's its very possible and there doing a work up. Wanna know what the really scary part is? They think the baby also has meningitis or sepsis! They tried 2 spinal taps but couldn't get it for some reason but are treating for it anyway. Were waiting for the CT results to come back later tonight. oh yeah, the apnea problem? They hooked him up right away and I may get this backwards but he had 5 episodes in the 1st 10 minutes alone! How the heck did the 1st hospital miss all this? So this mama is in serious need of prayers, he seems to be doing a bit better now that he's on oxygen and under a warmer but she's got at least a few rough days ahead of her.

Seriously?
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#26 of 36 Old 02-02-2006, 12:59 AM
 
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Oh my! Be sure she documents all of this.

My prayers are with this family.
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#27 of 36 Old 02-02-2006, 01:06 AM
 
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Oh my! Be sure she documents all of this.

amen to this....

My prayers are with this family.
mine as well.. please keep us updated
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#28 of 36 Old 02-02-2006, 01:37 AM
 
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I'm glad the baby is finally getting the care he needs!

I don't beleive in frivolous lawsuits but I hope she sues the pants off of hospital #1!!!

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19 (in Israel for another school year), Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 12(homeschooled)
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#29 of 36 Old 02-02-2006, 02:57 AM
 
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Exactly the reason she should have been on the pedi unit instead of sitting in the doggone ER the whole time!!! Like I said before, that is substandard care. They should have admitted that baby to peds even if the twin would have had to accompany them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, that sucks, and now poor babe is a couple of days behind in the care he/she(?) should have received.
I will keep this baby in my thoughts
ps - is it OK at the new hospital for twin to room in with them?
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#30 of 36 Old 02-02-2006, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dove
Exactly the reason she should have been on the pedi unit instead of sitting in the doggone ER the whole time!!! Like I said before, that is substandard care. They should have admitted that baby to peds even if the twin would have had to accompany them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, that sucks, and now poor babe is a couple of days behind in the care he/she(?) should have received.
I will keep this baby in my thoughts
ps - is it OK at the new hospital for twin to room in with them?

There keeping them separated and the healthy baby is pretty agitated about it even though its staying with dad 3 minutes away and mom is going back and forth to nurse but its still a way better situation then before as far as keeping the family together. Mom wants me to make the trip down there (170 miles for me) but I need to see what my $ situation is and talk to my midwife about the risks to my baby if I get either RSV (I've gotten it a couple times when my dd was infected) or the meningitis which we should know if the baby has it tomorrow morning. So if I go MIA you'll know i'm down there.

Seriously?
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