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Old 04-17-2007, 05:32 PM
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Does everybody get a visit from CPS at one point or another or what? I have never known somebody who actually kept a voice recorder at hand 24/7 in case of a visit.
No, the vast majority of people live a CPS free life
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Old 04-17-2007, 05:55 PM
 
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I wish it did, but it doesn't. WHO's exact statement on BFing says, "A recent review of evidence has shown that, on a population basis, exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months is the optimal way of feeding infants. Thereafter infants should receive complementary foods with continued breastfeeding up to 2 years of age or beyond."

This is hardly a strong pro-EBFing statement. It essentially says you SHOULD start solids at 6 months of age and that you can nurse **UP TO** 2 years or more, which basically makes it sounds like at any point after 6 months you can stop. "Up to" is very very different than "at least" - it's a lot less strong and communicates a large element of "if ya feel like it" which I don't like.

I wish AAP or WHO or AAFP or ACOG would come out saying "AT LEAST the age of 2 and however long after is mututally desirable for both the mother and child" or something like that, kind of like AAP says about nursing until 1 year. But none of them do.

I looooove Kathy Detwyler's site and have definitely read it and it's great info. But it's really not that "official", highly respected, authoritative stamp of approval, kwim?
From the AAP policy site http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;115/2/496

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Breastfeeding should be continued for at least the first year of life and beyond for as long as mutually desired by mother and child.185
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Increased duration of breastfeeding confers significant health and developmental benefits for the child and the mother, especially in delaying return of fertility (thereby promoting optimal intervals between births).196

There is no upper limit to the duration of breastfeeding and no evidence of psychologic or developmental harm from breastfeeding into the third year of life or longer.197
And that 197 citation is from Katherine Dettwyler's research--the AAP thinks that her research is good enough to cite.

~laura
and planning to eat it again
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Old 04-17-2007, 06:26 PM
 
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Maybe he was afraid she would get his fat side :
The social worker was a man.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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Old 04-17-2007, 06:59 PM
 
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*subscribing*
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:11 PM
 
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I am really diggin this thread but am naive to CPS action as well as some other PP pointed out. Could someone list some reasons other than the obvious mainstream ones that some could notify CPS-like the well child visit thing. I didnt really think of that so I guess maybe we should consider going.....what else?
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:56 PM
 
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Let me add that if I ever encounter a CPS worker or informer again, I will use my new Blackberry and record the entire "interview" and then broadcast it on the internet.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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Old 04-17-2007, 10:42 PM
 
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For example, there are several parents on this board who don't believe in well-child checks. I think this is foolish, not because I think every kid needs a WCC, but because a kid with no medical records is going to raise CPS' eyebrows and not in a good way. So....get thee an AP friendly pediatrician, or even a naturopath. Maintaining a relationship with a respected person in the medical community is a good idea regardless of CPS.
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Old 04-17-2007, 10:47 PM
 
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I TA, threebeans. The main reason my son was not taken from me at a visit to the ER was the prestige of my pediatrician. However, my mom never took me or my younger eight siblings to a pediatrician. So it was a new experience for me.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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Old 04-17-2007, 10:55 PM
 
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I'm one of those who doesn't do well-child checks.

my lovely 6 month experience with CPS was DUE TO WELL CHILD CHECKS.

If I hadn't gone, the ped wouldn't have become paranoid about what she percieved as an unsupportive spouse (um, he worked 8-5 and so did she. given we had newborn twins, he couldn't just give up a job, eh?) not ever attending said WCCs.

WCCs don't guarantee you will be free from CPS problems. We err on the side of caution against them.

there are currently no MDs who know my children exist, they don't know they're not vaxxed, they don't know they eat vegan, they don't know the 4 year old nurses. what they don't know, they don't report!
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Old 04-17-2007, 10:59 PM
 
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Good point, NatureMama 3. That would have been my mom's reasons also. I simply know that as things have worked out, I made the right decision for me. Fortunately I had a good pediatrician for the most part. Sheer luck, I suppose.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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Old 04-17-2007, 11:01 PM
 
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Let me add that if I ever encounter a CPS worker or informer again, I will use my new Blackberry and record the entire "interview" and then broadcast it on the internet.
Love it. I would YouTube those suckers so fast it would make their heads spin.
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Old 04-17-2007, 11:03 PM
 
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Love it. I would YouTube those suckers so fast it would make their heads spin.
Absolutely! s up

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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Old 04-17-2007, 11:16 PM
 
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I'm one of those who doesn't do well-child checks.

my lovely 6 month experience with CPS was DUE TO WELL CHILD CHECKS.

If I hadn't gone, the ped wouldn't have become paranoid about what she percieved as an unsupportive spouse (um, he worked 8-5 and so did she. given we had newborn twins, he couldn't just give up a job, eh?) not ever attending said WCCs.

WCCs don't guarantee you will be free from CPS problems. We err on the side of caution against them.

there are currently no MDs who know my children exist, they don't know they're not vaxxed, they don't know they eat vegan, they don't know the 4 year old nurses. what they don't know, they don't report!
She called CPS on you because your husband worked 8-5????? Really?? What happens when single moms have children?

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Old 04-17-2007, 11:18 PM
 
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No, the vast majority of people live a CPS free life
That's what I always assumed but after reading this post I started thinking that most people here (on this thread) have had trouble with CPS.

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Old 04-17-2007, 11:20 PM
 
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I don't know what happens to them in her care. or what happened. after the court case (about 2 years after-once our counter suit had been thrown out) she quit doctoring. yay!

that was the main reason she felt there was any problem. my then-husband didn't come to well child visits. of course, once the ball gets rolling, it gets uglier, but that's how it started.
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Old 04-17-2007, 11:28 PM
 
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WTH... since when is it a requirement for both parents to go?? DH and I always take turns, no need to expose BOTH kids to the sick germs at the clinic.

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Old 04-17-2007, 11:31 PM
 
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that's just it. it's not. but a ped can find anything THEY find worrisome and call CPS and because they are a doctor, CPS will listen (where they virtually ignore relatives and friends many times).

in our case, she told us the baby had a "septic hip" and sent us (self and mother and babies) to the ER (unsuspecting-how would we know what a septic hip was?) and called ahead to say she had a child abuse case coming in. she made that wonderful little leap in logic and was judge, jury and executioner all in 10 minutes.

so yea, we avoid MDs now. after getting all my medical records and all the kids medical records it was shocking how many NONmedical notes there were in there (patient seems depressed. marital troubles? etc).
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Old 04-18-2007, 12:12 AM
 
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I'm one of those who doesn't do well-child checks.

my lovely 6 month experience with CPS was DUE TO WELL CHILD CHECKS.

If I hadn't gone, the ped wouldn't have become paranoid about what she percieved as an unsupportive spouse (um, he worked 8-5 and so did she. given we had newborn twins, he couldn't just give up a job, eh?) not ever attending said WCCs.

WCCs don't guarantee you will be free from CPS problems. We err on the side of caution against them.

there are currently no MDs who know my children exist, they don't know they're not vaxxed, they don't know they eat vegan, they don't know the 4 year old nurses. what they don't know, they don't report!
Very well said!

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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Old 04-18-2007, 12:13 AM
 
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that's just it. it's not. but a ped can find anything THEY find worrisome and call CPS and because they are a doctor, CPS will listen (where they virtually ignore relatives and friends many times).

in our case, she told us the baby had a "septic hip" and sent us (self and mother and babies) to the ER (unsuspecting-how would we know what a septic hip was?) and called ahead to say she had a child abuse case coming in. she made that wonderful little leap in logic and was judge, jury and executioner all in 10 minutes.

so yea, we avoid MDs now. after getting all my medical records and all the kids medical records it was shocking how many NONmedical notes there were in there (patient seems depressed. marital troubles? etc).
ANOTHER good point...I steer clear of all "mandated reporters."

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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Old 04-18-2007, 12:33 AM
 
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that's just it. it's not. but a ped can find anything THEY find worrisome and call CPS and because they are a doctor, CPS will listen (where they virtually ignore relatives and friends many times).

in our case, she told us the baby had a "septic hip" and sent us (self and mother and babies) to the ER (unsuspecting-how would we know what a septic hip was?) and called ahead to say she had a child abuse case coming in. she made that wonderful little leap in logic and was judge, jury and executioner all in 10 minutes.

so yea, we avoid MDs now. after getting all my medical records and all the kids medical records it was shocking how many NONmedical notes there were in there (patient seems depressed. marital troubles? etc).
I'm lucky to have a pediatrician brother. Everytime I get sent to the ER I call him. So he'd probably have been "huh?" to that one.

I mostly used to worry about CPS because my twins got hurt so often. They were constantly getting lacerations, I mean very frequently. The nurses at the ER knew us. My brother was a resident then at Children's and we'd call him down when we got there. I always wondered if that helped avoid any potential problems. But honestly, there was never even a hint of someone thinking that we were CPS-notification worthy. They were always freak accidents, not negligent parent things. Plus, they were early talkers so could usually tell the doctor what happened, that helps too.
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Old 04-18-2007, 12:41 AM
 
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that's just it. it's not. but a ped can find anything THEY find worrisome and call CPS and because they are a doctor, CPS will listen (where they virtually ignore relatives and friends many times).



so yea, we avoid MDs now. after getting all my medical records and all the kids medical records it was shocking how many NONmedical notes there were in there (patient seems depressed. marital troubles? etc).

So,what do you do if your child ever has a *true* need for a doctor,and you take them and they ask for past medical history/ped/records,etc? Do you worry that the fact that your children haven't been to a ped/doc in a long time will "red flag" them?
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:10 AM
 
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if my child has a true emergency, we go to the ER where they don't have our medical records anyway.

if they have an illness that we can't handle, we go to the local free/low-cost clinic like all the other low-income people in town. there are benefits to living in a low-income native town. one of them is, it doesn't mark you with big red flags.
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:20 AM
 
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if my child has a true emergency, we go to the ER where they don't have our medical records anyway.
I took DS to the ER and he hadn't seen a ped. in 4 yrs. They just nod & go on their way. It could be a gamble, going to a ped. could be a gamble. In the end you just do what you think is right.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:35 AM
 
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ANOTHER good point...I steer clear of all "mandated reporters."
What if you need medical treatment? What if you go to an E.R.? What if you have to have police come to your house for some reason? What if you have an annoying/nosey relative or neighbor who likes to report people to CPS for no reason.

It may be possible to avoid mandatory reporters for a while but eventually most people need to seek medical treatment for something (even if not in an E.R.) and I think a lack of any medical records or a PCP would raise huge eyebrows where they might not get raised at all otherwise.
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:36 AM
 
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In the end you just do what you think is right.
Now that I agree with.
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Old 04-18-2007, 03:15 AM
 
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For those who think that cooperating with CPS, doing nothing wrong and logically explaining your parenting choices will protect you , you need to read one of two books, or both:
Wounded Innocents by Richard Wexler
Out of Control by Brenda Scott

And MOST parents I know have had at least one brush with CPS. My sil has had them called twice because her children are thin. Fourtunatley their pedi was also pedi for thier father and uncles and said "ALL Hotchkins are thin" and they ARE. Trust me, this kids eats truckloads, but hes just thin, like his fahter and his uncles.

ONe of dh's aunts kids got taken. They ten year old was walking home from school with friends and one of the OTHER children set fire to a building (he admitted it). ALL parents of the kids involved were investigated. The mom was a single mother and the kids stayed alone after school til she got home. Though the sister was 16 (in Texas you can legally babysit at 14) they found "lack of supervision" and "suspicion of drug use" and took both kids. Mom submitted to no less than six drug tests, they took her urine and it came back negative each time. Rather than admit defeat, they next asked for a hair sample. Negative again. It took her almost a year to get her kids back. Oh, she had quit her job since they said they were going to take the kids if she wasnt home with them afterschool, but one of the conditions of thier return was that she HAD to have a job. These kids asked every day to go home. The 16 year old girl had a set of foster parents who STOLE from her when she left thier home. When we finally got them (they were with us for about five months) the ten year old boy was on seven diffrend meds (all prescribed while in fostercare) for things like depression and anxiety and an anger disorder. Two of his meds were counterindicated to each other and he had been losing conciousness every night when it was given to him. I discontinued it all. ALL of the meds had a side effect of constipation and when he got to me his bowels were severly impacted. The girl had had dental work that was unnecesay. I know this because I simply called the mom to find out who thier original doctor and dentist was adn took them there. The dentist was horrified that his work had been redone for no reason he could see (other than medicade paying to dentist for it). I got them just as school started and asked if they would need clothes. I was told No, that the foster parents were just given $1,000 for school clothes. These kids came to me with NOTHING, clothes that were old and too small. Shoes that didnt fit. I dont know where the money went but it wasnt spent on these kids. They were suppose to visit thier mom every week but didnt for three weeks in a row because of the cps workers schedule. When they did get to visit, the cps worker was in the room and told them what was and wasnt appropriate to discuss. For example, if a child asked about a timeline for coming home, the visit was shut down. I could go on and on.

Ive seen kids lost in the system, I knew a foster mom who had a child dropped off and the worker quit the next day and it took her two months to find out who was in charge of the case so the child could visit theparents.

I myself had CPS called on me by neighbors when my first child was teething. Because they heard him crying.

I worked with a family who was told thier children could be taken if they didnt move the computer out of the living room.

There is a list of things they look for in thier investigations and sleeping in the same bed is on the list of red flags for sexual abuse, as is any type of "mouth to breast contact". They dont see this as a parenting choice, they see it as pathological and children have been removed for ebf alone. It has happened.

Unfortunatley a lot of cps involvement starts as vindictiveness on the part of the reporter. When my mom divorced her second husband, he called cps on her just to cause trouble. My dh's exstepmother is always threatening us with it because somehow she blames my dh for her divorce (her version is that he made his dad choose between her or the grandkids, and that so never happened, his dad came to us and asked to live with us).

Then again I called cps once on someone who I knew for a fact did drugs, didnt feed the children regularly, left the kids in poopy pants for days at a time and often left very young children locked outside for hours at a time. I was told that none of that was enough to open an investigation. Huh? Trust me, I would NEVER call cps on anyone unless I was very sure there was abuse or neglect occuring that was worse than the alternative. (Even a bad parent is still a loved parent and breaking up families does a lot of harm to the child, plus they are statistically more likely to be abused or molested in foster care than at home).

Oh and on the issue of the warrant: NO ONE can enter a private home against the occupants wishes wihtout a warrant. If the do, anything they find isnt admissible in court. An agency may make seeing the home a requirement of its investigation all it wants, thats not MY problem. They still dont have the right to override the constitution. Period.

~Me, mama to soapbox boy (1991), photo girl (1997), gadget girl (2003), jungle boy (2005), fan boy (2003) and twirly girl (2011). Twenty years of tree hugging, breastfeeding, cosleeping, unschooling, craziness
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Old 04-18-2007, 03:22 AM
 
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Just wanted to add, its not interviewing at school that should worry you most. A lot of kids are TAKEN from school, because they have easy access. All schools allow all CPS and social workers unlimited access to your children no matter what.

My son was questioned at school when a local house here burned down and then another student was accused of it (with no proof) and is now on probation(with no trial) and cps had deemed niether he nor his brother can be one second without adult supervision (both teens) and the boy in question is in ISS since hes accused of a felony. Another child has now confessed to the fire but this child is still on probation, still paying fines etc. and now I dont trust law enforcement either! (My son was told that they "knew" the other child did this and if my son didnt sign an affidafit saying that he saw him do it, he would be charged as an adult himself and he would go to prison for ten years, pure scare tactics, which worked on another boy who did sign the affidafit which was thier main "evidence" though that boy told the child who is accused that he only signed it cuz he was scared of going to jail and he didnt see anything).

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Old 04-18-2007, 04:09 AM
 
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This thread is already so full of good advice. Thank you mamas.



I would like to add ~ I'm another one that has experienced a failure of CPS to do anything when something really IS wrong ~~ I called CPS personally on my parents multiple times growing up because of severe abuse, and each time they came out, "investigated," and then left and did nothing... which incurred the further wrath of my parents later on. Every. Single. Time.

And yet I've met so many parents who have had their kids taken away for NOTHING, not ANY good reason, just crap reasons, and they get lost in the system for years upon years, abused, or worse.


It all makes me so sad and scared and angry.
... which of course is why we need this thread!

Thanks all.
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Old 04-18-2007, 05:52 AM
 
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Yes, its a failure of the system more than it is the fault of any one worker. They are overworked, overwhelmed, underpaid and undertrained. The guidelines are subjective leaving a lot up to the individual investigator. Leaving way too much room for personal ignorances and prejudices to become official judgements. Kids who need help go unassisted while those who do not are often removed for petty reasons. So much could be helped with some training and some way to help those workers who really care COPE with what they see. CPS has a huge turnover rate. The best workers leave. I had an intern in my office last year who, after just a month working with ECI (early childhood intervention, we work with children with disabilities and dev. delays) who had been a cps worker, gotten burned out and went back to school. She said, "I wish I had known all this when I worked for CPS" talking about issues like infant mental health, attachment etc. childrens emotional development. That is also my biggest wish, that CPS workers were trained in infant mental health issues and actually worked WITH the families!

Practice:Remove child because of substandard housing. Alternative: Help family find acceptable housing and a way to fund it (section 8, HUD etc)

Practice: Remove child from single mom due to lack of adequeate supervision while mom works. Alternative: help mom find supervision and fund it (Medicade has a program that pays for childcare, lots of agencies have respite programs etc, heck, hook up several families with each other to trade babysitting!)

I could go on. We just need to start realizing that when we take children from thier familes we are HARMING them. In some cases, that harms outweights the harm of leaving them alone, but in a great many cases it does NOT, even if thier parents are great parents. Mine wasn't, but I wouldnt have watned to live with anyone else. ONce we (as a society) admit that removing the children HARMS them, mabye we will be more careful!

~Me, mama to soapbox boy (1991), photo girl (1997), gadget girl (2003), jungle boy (2005), fan boy (2003) and twirly girl (2011). Twenty years of tree hugging, breastfeeding, cosleeping, unschooling, craziness
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Old 04-18-2007, 05:53 AM
 
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Sorry, had to add on the point of helping a single parent fund childcare: get better at enforcing child support law compliance!! But thats another topic altogather!

~Me, mama to soapbox boy (1991), photo girl (1997), gadget girl (2003), jungle boy (2005), fan boy (2003) and twirly girl (2011). Twenty years of tree hugging, breastfeeding, cosleeping, unschooling, craziness
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