Medical community and their BAD advice!!! - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My friend had her baby girl today (yeah!!!) and she was recounting the birth to me and I was just so livid...but I didn't say anything b/c it is not my place but she doesn't even know how bad they screwed her!
They suggested inducing to her b/c she wanted to have her doctor deliver the baby. She agreed to be induced and ended up having what sounds to me like a fairly traumatic birth. She pushed for 2 1/2 hours and the baby was sunny side up (not sure what that means) the baby was not coming out so they suctioned it out and now the baby has a sore on it's head.
My friend apparently tore really badly b/c she asked the doctor how many stitches and he said, "I lost count"
I told that part to my mom who told me that the doctors never tell you how many stitches but really that is just wrong. If that doctor told me that I would livid..it's my body and you better tell me what you're doing.
I asked my friend if the baby was in the room with her and she said no it was in the nursery b/c she was so tired. She said didn't know how women did this on no food and no sleep.
My friend was planning on exclusively pumping for her baby for 1 mos b/c she has MS and has to go back on her meds after a month but I just know she isn't pumping b/c she would have told me if she was...she would have said something.
I think she feels so beat up after that that thought of pumping jsut isn't on her radar. (She is from a very pro formula family I was her only breastfeeding support even gave her my PIS)
anyway..I am so pissed not at her but at the way she was treated...she doesn't know she was treated so badly so I guess that's good.

we are a group of 5 friends who know each other for years...through all our ups and downs and she is the only one to give birth naturally and her experience should have been better.
I am pissed for her and it's none of my business but I had to vent.

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#2 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:33 AM
 
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They suggested inducing to her b/c she wanted to have her doctor deliver the baby. She agreed to be induced and ended up having what sounds to me like a fairly traumatic birth. She pushed for 2 1/2 hours and the baby was sunny side up (not sure what that means) the baby was not coming out so they suctioned it out and now the baby has a sore on it's head.
Out of my small group of women friends I'm the only one who wasn't induced. It's becoming so
popular it's scary. It just sets up a bad birth in my opinion if it isn't necessary.

-Janna, independent mother of dd, Ms. Mattie Sky born on my 25th birthday, 06*23*2000. My Mama Feb.21,1938-Sept.10,2006
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#3 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:33 AM
 
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This story repeats itself day after day across the country. Honestly, it does. I have heard it from women when I was in high school, college, as a young mother myself from my contemporaries and now as a post menopausal woman.

Women need to vote with their own feet and fight for their rights. If you think doctors are bullied by women into these procedures, why aren't women of childbearing age as successful into bullying doctors into doing homebirths?

Doctors will defend each other as long as each walks the line of the hospital governing boards and guidelines of the insurance companies that tell them what to do. In the meantime, do not blame women whose bodies and minds are boiling cauldrons of emotion and hormones when they are pregnant. Women in labor are scared easily into procedures, drugs and routines that they normally would never allow. Their partners are equally afraid and new parents seem to forget that they still have their rights and that they need to advocate for themselves in these situations.

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It is becoming so popular it is scary.
When I attended mommy'n'me classes, I was the ONLY mama who did not have a caesarean section delivery, in six years of attending those classes. I was also the smallest woman in the class, 5'0", 110#, size 5. This was 1980-86. Nothing has changed!!
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#4 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:39 AM
 
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#5 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:40 AM
 
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sunny-side up means the baby presented head first, face up (towards belly). this can be harder on mom than the head first, facing down presentation.

Induction - easy on the OB/GYN especially for schelduling births at times convenient to them, but hard on mom and baby. Hospital HCPs never want to tell you the real risks involved in something that is actually more of a benefit to them than to you.

Sorry your friend's experience was bad, it is unfortunate the decision to induce and the cascade of interventions has interfered with the baby's access to breastmilk.

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#6 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 01:10 AM
 
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Yes, sunny side up means posterior. It makes for a longer and more difficult pushing stage of labor...I had two of those, my first two babies.

The reason it is so hard is because the hard part of the baby's head, the back of the head, comes down on the mother's sacrum, whereas in the anterior position, the soft part of the baby's face, a softer part of the baby's head, comes down on the sacrum. In the posterior position, the mother experiences lots of back pain, typically, and the mother must work harder to force the baby's head to rotate a wider arc in order to descend and be born.
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#7 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 01:18 AM
 
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I'm so sorry about your friend. That sounds exactly like my first birth minus the induction. Paddy was posterior and born sunny side up. I pushed him for 2.5 hours, most of that time on my f-ing back : I'm amazed I escaped from a c-section. Women DO need to stand up for their rights and stop allowing themselves to be guinea pigs for these doctors!
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#8 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 01:47 AM
 
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Infuriating isn't it. : I was the only one among several in my personal group of friends and acquaintances not to have some medical intervention that caused them harm.
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#9 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 03:02 AM
 
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My friend was planning on exclusively pumping for her baby for 1 mos b/c she has MS and has to go back on her meds after a month but I just know she isn't pumping b/c she would have told me if she was...she would have said something.
It might be too late, but she might want to look on Dr. Hale--most of the MS meds are breastfeeding-safe.
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#10 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 04:25 AM
 
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You're a good friend to be angry on her behalf, but you're right that it's good she doesn't know any better.

Call her or go see her tomorrow and mention the pumping. She's exhausted right now (and rightly so) but she may be up for it after some rest.

Jenn
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#11 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 05:05 AM
 
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sounds a lot like my SIL. I've never even met the gal, but my mom relayed the whole predictable story... I kept punctuating the tale with "gah!" "WHY?!" and "omfg, that's so stupid."

For weeks before labor, they had been telling her that her baby was going to be "HUGE." Like, over ten pounds. And she was going to deliver early, and they knew WTF they were talking about, cuz they're doctors, right!?

She wound up with a C-section past her due date. And the baby weighed barely 8 pounds. :

It does make you MAD!
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#12 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 07:33 AM
 
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sounds like my birth : it blew & was not fun at all. i was induced past my due date b/c my blood pressure was out of control. i had also been trying to get dd to turn out of sunny side up for ages- she's always been a stubborn girl otherwise, except for breastfeeding (i didn't start until i got home b/c my arms were numb : ) that's my story. i *did* know "better" but it's what happened anyway. my doctor kept me informed, gave me options, including to suction or not to suction. i physically couldn't do any more. i was a mess & felt i needed that intervention. dh even double & triple checked with me b/c he knew how i felt about excessive intervention.

as i said, it blew. if i have another dc, i will again do everything i can to make it go differently. I'm glad you didn't tell her how aggravated you were/are. It wouldn't help anything. Let her heal & bond with her baby. Maybe she will have a different experience another time.
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#13 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 08:57 AM
 
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I know this place is anti-doctor but it's inaccurate to say "the medical community" gives bad advice. I would say the OBGYN community gives crap advice. That system is a huge mess in this country. However, I do not think the same of oncologists, cardiologists, etc.
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#14 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 09:40 AM
 
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"They suggested inducing to her b/c she wanted to have her doctor deliver the baby. She agreed to be induced and ended up having what sounds to me like a fairly traumatic birth."

*She* wanted to have her doctor deliver the baby, *they* gave her what she wanted.

" She pushed for 2 1/2 hours and the baby was sunny side up (not sure what that means) the baby was not coming out so they suctioned it out and now the baby has a sore on it's head."

Sunny side up means face up instead of back of the head up, it is more complicated and generally more painful.

"My friend apparently tore really badly b/c she asked the doctor how many stitches and he said, "I lost count" "

I can see a doc losing count. Do you keep count of stitches if you're hemming a skirt?

"I told that part to my mom who told me that the doctors never tell you how many stitches but really that is just wrong. If that doctor told me that I would livid..it's my body and you better tell me what you're doing. "

Your friend may want to ask the degree of the tear, that will give her an accurate perspective of the extent of the tearing.

"I asked my friend if the baby was in the room with her and she said no it was in the nursery b/c she was so tired. She said didn't know how women did this on no food and no sleep."

Again, her choice, although I advocate rooming in.

"My friend was planning on exclusively pumping for her baby for 1 mos b/c she has MS and has to go back on her meds after a month but I just know she isn't pumping b/c she would have told me if she was...she would have said something. "

Perhaps you could help her out at this time, she might need a friend help her if she's so exhausted (and MS only compounds this fatigue.)


"I think she feels so beat up after that that thought of pumping jsut isn't on her radar. (She is from a very pro formula family I was her only breastfeeding support even gave her my PIS) "

Family support is important, it's going to take a lot of help on your part to counterbalance the negativity from her family.

"anyway..I am so pissed not at her but at the way she was treated...she doesn't know she was treated so badly so I guess that's good. "

To be honest, I don't think she was treated that badly, she has made choices that neither you nor I would make. I had been in false labor and the doctor was going to break my water, I told him to put the amniohook away because I knew if it didn't start labor, they would end up inducing me. She made other choices.

"we are a group of 5 friends who know each other for years...through all our ups and downs and she is the only one to give birth naturally and her experience should have been better. "

Again, I would stress the positive, she had a natural birth, she did well compared to the others.

"I am pissed for her and it's none of my business but I had to vent.

I understand, and this seems like a supportive place for that, but, try to see the birth from *her* perspective, it really wasn't that bad. Not what you or I find ideal, but for a typical Westerner with an anti breastfeeding (likely pro medical model,) family, it wasn't that bad. Cheer up. : Sorry if this came off harsh.
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#15 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Fishface, you're right. I was just seething and my enitre life my only exericne with doctors is OBGYns or pediatricians. I have tunnel vision and forget that there are a world of doctors beyond my scope.

As for the Dr. Hale site I kind of mentioned (earlier in her pregnancy not now) in passing that if she wanted to to continue breastfeding that she could look up the meds and her repsonse was kind of like, "nope" so i didn't push.

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#16 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 10:55 AM
 
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They suggested inducing to her b/c she wanted to have her doctor deliver the baby. She agreed to be induced and ended up having what sounds to me like a fairly traumatic birth. She pushed for 2 1/2 hours and the baby was sunny side up (not sure what that means) the baby was not coming out so they suctioned it out and now the baby has a sore on it's head.
So she agreed to the induction, correct? Is this why she had bad medical advice? I'm not sure I understand why she got bad advice.

-Laura
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#17 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 11:04 AM
 
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Its a lie that 'nobody' tells you how many stiches - my midwife was super upfront about the fact that my labia tore a little, so she put two stiches in just so'd itd heal faster

But, anyways, I'm sorry.. the doctor that was incharg eo fmy midwife's practice was getting worried when I became due, starting to talk about 'inducing'. I told her I'd much rather not be, unless it was absolutely neccasary, even went so far as to buy castor oil, just in case =) But, thankfully, DS was born one day early!! W/o induction of any sort!!
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#18 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:00 PM
 
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They suggested inducing to her b/c she wanted to have her doctor deliver the baby. She agreed to be induced and ended up having what sounds to me like a fairly traumatic birth. She pushed for 2 1/2 hours and the baby was sunny side up (not sure what that means) the baby was not coming out so they suctioned it out and now the baby has a sore on it's head.
Same story of an aquaintance of mine, basically. Induced because she was "late" (41 weeks), traumatic birth, forceps and vacuum, 4th degree tear, infected tear, baby got an infected umbilical stump, baby won't latch properly, and so on.

I have to say though, I am sooooo impressed with her because she is persevering with breastfeeding, visiting an LC, pumping, doing anything she can to keep nursing.
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#19 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:20 PM
 
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I too am totally unclear on where the crap advice is. The woman wanted to be induced, she had a bad presentation, she pushed for a long time and she tore. Where's the bad? I could understand if this was a failed induction that ended in a c-section, but I don't see where the induction was at at fault. Midwives have to deal with bad presentations too, and when you have a hard presentation the pushing stage IS longer and the likelihood of tearing IS higher. How would giving birth without medical involvement have changed the outcome of this labor at all?
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#20 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:35 PM
 
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I hear so many stories like this...the mom was induced for some crap reason and ends up having a horrible birth.

My good friend was induced because she was 'late' and the 'baby was huge' she was 41 weeks. Her DD was FINALLY born 24 hours after they started the pitiocen...hard hard labor for 24 hours, she got an epi of course which I'm sure made it even longer since she was trapped on her back the whole time...she pushed for 2 hours because she couldn't feel what the heck she was doing. Her 41 weeker? Was just under 7lbs...she FF'ed from minute one because she was too tired after her 24 hour labor.

It's really shocking the number of women that are induced these days. Really shocking.

My SIL is pg, she's 11 weeks along (12 maybe) and says she wants "Ten epidurals" and "If the baby is not born after 2 hours I'm saying C-SECTION!" I tried to educate her...but just gave up. I have a (fake..more like a "How much you wanna bet?" deal) bet going with DH that 1) Shes doing to be induced before he due date since she's due December 30th and 2) She's going to have 'an emergency c-section'

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#21 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:47 PM
 
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not really responding to the bad advice from the "medical community" but i wanted to respond to the issue regarding stitches

i work in the OR with lots of surgeons, including OB/GYNs.

the idea that the number of sutures indicates how severe a wound is is incorrect. I've seen people with enormous wounds sewn up with 30 stitches, and small tears stitched with hundreds. it depends on the type of suture material used, the tissue being repaired, the size of the sutures, the tension placed on them, the type of closure performed.... lots of factors.
i'd much rather my surgeon concentrate on doing a good job on my wound closure than concerning themselves with how many they were putting in.
i have scrubbed on hundreds (thousands?) of surgical cases, and i have never seen or heard of a surgeon counting sutures.
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#22 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:50 PM
 
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*sigh*

so sad that this happens daily. but what can you do when women are not informed participants in their health care choices? if a woman wants to be induced and the doctor gives that to her....

I'm sorry your friend's birth didn't happen more smoothly.. she is lucky she didn't end up with a c/s
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#23 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:58 PM
 
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Gotta say I don't get how the doctors are getting blamed for all of this. I mean really? She asks to be induced? And to blame the birth for her not breastfeeding? Come on? She made that decision long ago, that is obvious. And blaming a difficult birth for someone FF from day one? Again, that decision was made before that birth. You can have the hardest birth and still be determined to breastfeed no matter what. The medical community is far from perfect, but don't blame them for women who don't educate themselves, for women who don't want to breastfeed. Blaming a 24 hour labor for the reason why a woman chooses not to breastfeed? I don't get that? Plenty of women go through that and worse and still manage to breastfeed their children.
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#24 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 12:59 PM
 
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not really responding to the bad advice from the "medical community" but i wanted to respond to the issue regarding stitches

i work in the OR with lots of surgeons, including OB/GYNs.

the idea that the number of sutures indicates how severe a wound is is incorrect. I've seen people with enormous wounds sewn up with 30 stitches, and small tears stitched with hundreds. it depends on the type of suture material used, the tissue being repaired, the size of the sutures, the tension placed on them, the type of closure performed.... lots of factors.
i'd much rather my surgeon concentrate on doing a good job on my wound closure than concerning themselves with how many they were putting in.
i have scrubbed on hundreds (thousands?) of surgical cases, and i have never seen or heard of a surgeon counting sutures.
Yes. I have no idea how many stitches were used by my midwife to repair my tear after my homebirth and the thought had never even crossed my mind that I ought to. I thought that was a strange thing to find "horrible" about this story.

By the same token, I had a fairly difficult birth at home including an attempt at natural induction due to PPROM and a long, long pushing stage and lots of bleeding and a baby with a birth defect. I was traumatized immediately afterwards, but a year later I don't think it was a bad birth at all. I think we need to let women draw their own conclusions about their experiences.
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#25 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 01:02 PM
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re: number of stitches thing -- It seems the number of stitches is not necessarily a good indicator of the severity of the tear. Any repairs would be documented as a "first degree" up to "fourth degree" perineal laceration, with specific criteria as to what distinguishes each degree. So knowing the number of stitches isn't as useful to a person as knowing the more basic information about what sort of laceration, if any, occurred.

(Babycenter .com ain't good for much, but it was at least good for this. Figures, the "scary" aspects of childbirth get documented there.)


edit: uhh.. I swear I'd read the whole thread; I think Teaghan'sMama posted while I was googling But yeah, what she said.
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#26 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 01:23 PM
 
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I was induced and had a horrible labor. The doctors were following protocol for a patient with my condition, and even though my labor/birth was crappy, I don't blame them. I blame myself for not researching alternatives, but instead trusting that their was the only way.

I guess I don't get how it was the doctor's fault on this either, because like you said, she pretty much said early on that she wouldn't look into alternative medications so she could breastfeed. So the motivation for that wasn't there. And she wanted to be induced so her doctor could deliver, so it's not like they scared her into it with fears of her and her baby dieing from being 2 days over due or something equally as stupid.

I think that because you are being a good supportive friend your anger is somewhat misplaced, which sometimes for the sake of our friendships is a good thing. But I think it boils down to your friend just not knowing better (I didn't at the time either!).

And if she's like me, when all the excitement wears down and she has some time to reflect on it, she might realize just how horrible it was and look into how she can do things differently next time. That's what I did, and how I ultimately found MDC. For some it's second nature, and for others it's a learning process.

Maybe a subscription to Mothering would be a good new-mama gift? Hint hint..

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#27 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 03:15 PM
 
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I agree regarding the "number of stitches." I don't know why people always want a number. I mean a few vs. a sh*tload may be an important distinction but other than that... I guess I don't get it.
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#28 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 03:54 PM
 
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I hope your friend heals quickly. It is disappointing that this kind of birth experience is so common.

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#29 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 03:59 PM
 
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Just once, I'd love to see a thread where x, y, and z happened during a birth that were horrible, but instead of all the judgement and bashing, a more thankful attitude that the end result was a healthy, breathing baby. Really, what is more important?


, , , mama to Ross , Reagan (8/29/05), Joshua (from Haiti...here NOW due to the earthquake!), and Elijah , born safely 9-8-09.
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#30 of 31 Old 06-26-2007, 04:33 PM
 
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Thanks HDM, thanks! As a mama who had a c/s with the first baby, and looking at a repeat with baby #2, the important thing to me is that the baby gets here healthy and happy and I don't give a crap how it happens.
A baby is a blessing whether you have a natural birth at home, or a c/s in the hospital.
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