Would you have said something? - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Would you have said something?
Yes, I would have said something to the mom. 122 48.22%
No, I would have kept walking. 42 16.60%
I'm not sure what I would do. 61 24.11%
Other. 28 11.07%
Voters: 253. You may not vote on this poll

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#181 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 12:46 AM
 
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I am saying that I'm capable of preventing my child from dying of suffocation/choking on a bag by supervising him properly. That is correct. It takes more than a few seconds to suffocate or choke to death, and with a parent right there to intervene immediately, chances of death are extremely low.

I'll keep letting my child, who has awesome balance, is intelligent enough not to cause himself to tip over, and is supervised well enough by me that I would notice in time to catch him, stand in the cart. And you can keep going on being pompous, rude, sarcastic, and insulting. Don't let things like courtesy, respect, or the UA slow you down!

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Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
Why don't we all take a moment before continuing our conversation to make sure we're being as respectful as possible and in compliance with rule 1 of the UA?

25 children a year die from plastic bag suffocation. What kind of plastic bags are they? Were their parents supervising them, standing right there next to them making sure they didn't have the bag over their heads or by their mouths long enough to suffocate? Do you know how many kids die each year because of cosleeping? I think the number is about the same. But what we cosleepers know is that those people probably weren't cosleeping -safely- and that we don't know the circumstances. The circumstances probably weren't as safe as they could have been in those cases. And the circumstances where those kids died from plastic bags probably aren't the circumstances that are being discussed with this grocery store scenario, where the parent is standing RIGHT next to them supervising them so that they aren't unsupervised wearing/sucking/whatever the plastic bag long enough to suffocate. Do you know how long suffocation takes?

I've seen several mentions on this thread of kids choking with the parents right there. I see the other threads you mention. I acknowledge that choking can happen. But did any of those kids DIE from choking? NO, because their parents were right there to take action.

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some people are all for parental freedom and freedom of speech until they don't like another opinion.
Like you? I'm not for freedom of speech that goes against the UA. It has nothing to do with whether or not I like your opinion. I disagree with people all of the time on here -without- thinking that they are being inappropriate.

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I find it amusing to no end that at least 2 posters have used the word 'bitchy' to describe the heads up some of us said we would give if we encountered this situation.
It's one thing to criticize a statement, action or idea and another completely to insult a PERSON based on their statements, actions, or ideas. I called the suggestion that I don't care about keeping my son safe stupid; I didn't call you stupid.

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I think if you think it's bitchy for another human being to speak to you, you just might have a problem.
So, if one thinks it's bitchy for another human being to speak to them in a certain manner, they have a problem? Ooookay...

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#182 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 01:23 AM
 
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What I am saying is, you keep making it an issue of intelligence, and it is not.
It is an issue of, for lack of a better phrase 's**t happens.'
You took offense to me saying I would say something if I saw a child with a plastic bag. You said I would be 'parenting' your child.
I didn't see it that way, and I went back later and read that I had, indeed, said that I would speak to the child. I still don't see a lot of difference in speaking to the child or the mom, but I do see that you and I differ on that point.
I also see that I may be a bigger worrier than some here.
And I see that you are taking this a lot more personally than I am. Despite the fact that I am concerned that anyone would let a child play with a plastic bag or stand in a shopping cart, I am a little bit amused by how angry some people get that I feel that way, or that I voiced my opinion.

I don't feel that my tone was any more insulting than yours or many others.
We disagree, period. You happen to think it is much less risky than I do, and that is fine, but it is not an issue of whether or not you or your child are intelligent, and it is insulting to anyone who has lost a child in such a manner to say such a thing. I was joking when I made my houseplant remark, but you have stated several times that you and your child are smart enough to avoid the dangers, and that is extremely insulting to anyone who has suffered one of these tragedies.

Your opinion is no more or less valid than mine. And your conversation has been no more or less polite, either.

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#183 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 01:34 AM
 
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When we have mothers behaving hostilely to other mothers, citing supposed imminent danger where statistically there is none... well I have to wonder what else is going on.
Could you elaborate a bit here?

I totally get the whole judgmental thing - but I guess I'm seeing it from a different perspective - if I did see a kid doing something that I felt was dangerous, whether there was a statistically significant risk or not, I'd likely say something, not out of judgment against the parent, but out of sincere concern.

I guess where I'm going with this is that if a person's intent is sincere, does it matter how much statistics show the dangers in something? I think it's a whole 'nother thing if someone steps up just to put someone else in their place, but I really believe that in situations like that, people have good intentions.
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#184 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 01:42 AM
 
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I took offense to the house plant comment and a few others. I would only take offense to you saying something about a plastic bag if you did it in a certain way, such as lecturing or insulting me or saying something directly to my child while my eyes were on him.

To me, it's both an issue of sh*t happening and intelligence. Intelligence can lower the chances of sh*t happening, and it can diminish the severity of the results if sh*t happens. I think the big issues are supervision and education. Watching your child well enough that they're not unsupervised long enough to die from choking or suffocating, which takes a minute, and being educated enough to know how to handle such a situation if it comes up.

I'm taking it personally, because I think the way some people are wording their opinions is very disrespectful. I don't take it personally that someone would or wouldn't say something, but I do take it personally when people suggest that I must not care as much about my son or safety or whatnot as they do. That's been insinuated a few times by more than one person.

I don't think it's an insult to someone who has lost a child, even lost a child to plastic bag suffocation specifically, unless the circumstances in the death are the exact same as the ones being discussed. As has been said, it's unlikely that those 25 cases a year were all times when a child was playing with a plastic produce bag with their parent closely supervising them.

I know to supervise my son well enough that he wouldn't have a chance to suffocate or choke to death without my noticing in time to intervene. I may be lax about what I let him do, but I am not lax about how much attention I pay to what he's doing--especially when he's doing something I know could be risky.

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does it matter how much statistics show the dangers in something?
It depends. It does matter if you are going to be judgemental or rude, lecture a person, etc. But no, not if you're going to say "Heads up, your kid's got a bag on his head! Just wanted to let you know."

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#185 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 01:43 AM
 
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Could you elaborate a bit here?
There has been some hardcore "she doesn't deserve to have children OMGZ!!!!1111" on this thread. That is what I mean.

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I guess where I'm going with this is that if a person's intent is sincere, does it matter how much statistics show the dangers in something? I think it's a whole 'nother thing if someone steps up just to put someone else in their place, but I really believe that in situations like that, people have good intentions.
ITA with you on the intentions.

IME people don't always have good intentions. That is where it gets ugly. But when they do, which is most of the time, I'm cool with *friendly* reminders. And I give them myself in the spirit of helping. I've always received and been received warmly when the intention is good.

You can tell by the tone, IME.
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#186 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 01:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
It depends. It does matter if you are going to be judgemental or rude, lecture a person, etc. But no, not if you're going to say "Heads up, your kid's got a bag on his head! Just wanted to let you know."
I'll give you that one, god knows my point can get lost in all my prattle! I'm much nicer in person than I come across in print on the internet, I've been told.

Sometimes my over-explaining comes off as lecturing, but I don't mean it that way. I'm just so used to repeating myself to children all day long I forget I'm talking to adults sometimes.

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#187 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 01:51 AM
 
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S'ok.

I'm a nice person, too, really; I am just a fireball, full of passion about...well...almost everything

thismama, I've been wanting to ask you... if you won't star in my psychodrama, would you at least play a bit role?

I totally agree about tone. A negative tone can make something very hurtful and thus unhelpful.

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#188 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 01:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
I know to supervise my son well enough that he wouldn't have a chance to suffocate or choke to death without my noticing in time to intervene. I may be lax about what I let him do, but I am not lax about how much attention I pay to what he's doing--especially when he's doing something I know could be risky.
Mama I don't know if you saw my earlier post. I worked in a Pediatric ER at a Level 1 trauma center. I saw two children die in 5 years from Plastic bags. Both of their parents were right there. The thing about plastic bags is that if a portion gets into the airway it sticks and clings to the airway. These babies both died with their parents trying to get the bag out immediately and with EMTs and Paramedics there ASAP. Those bags cling in the airway and there almost isn't any getting them out without special tools and equipment to visualize the obstruction. You might be able to intervene but if he already breathed it in it might be too late.
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#189 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 02:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CalenandEllasmomma View Post
Mama I don't know if you saw my earlier post. I worked in a Pediatric ER at a Level 1 trauma center. I saw two children die in 5 years from Plastic bags. Both of their parents were right there. The thing about plastic bags is that if a portion gets into the airway it sticks and clings to the airway. These babies both died with their parents trying to get the bag out immediately and with EMTs and Paramedics there ASAP. Those bags cling in the airway and there almost isn't any getting them out without special tools and equipment to visualize the obstruction. You might be able to intervene but if he already breathed it in it might be too late.
Wow. That's pretty hardcore.
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#190 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 02:05 AM
 
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Plastic bags don't just suddenly shed a large piece. Usually, a piece must be ripped off by biting it, sucking it enough to stretch the material until it gives way, or clawing at it. I wouldn't let my child bite, suck, or otherwise rip a bag. Do you know how the pieces of those bags came off, and were they plastic produce bags? Did you see a few pages back where someone described getting a piece of plastic bag out of a child's mouth? Two children in 5 years really isn't that alarming of a 'statistic' to me either; it goes to show how extremely rare it is. My son is more likely to die from crossing the street. Or maybe even getting struck by lightning... And yes, I see that the lightning is more likely. 25 kids a year die from plastic bag suffocation... I began counting the number of deaths from lightning strikes this -month- and stopped at 25

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#191 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 02:17 AM
 
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Plastic bags don't just suddenly shed a large piece. Usually, a piece must be ripped off by biting it, sucking it enough to stretch the material until it gives way, or clawing at it. I wouldn't let my child bite, suck, or otherwise rip a bag. Do you know how the pieces of those bags came off, and were they plastic produce bags? Did you see a few pages back where someone described getting a piece of plastic bag out of a child's mouth? Two children in 5 years really isn't that alarming of a 'statistic' to me either; it goes to show how extremely rare it is. My son is more likely to die from crossing the street. Or maybe even getting struck by lightning... And yes, I see that the lightning is more likely. 25 kids a year die from plastic bag suffocation... I began counting the number of deaths from lightning strikes this -month- and stopped at 25
Just as an aside, most of the plastic grocery bags I'm given at grocery stores do have a little piece hanging off where the bag was poked through to put on the bag holding thingy.

I guess the way I look at it is: why risk it? It's not like I can't find something more entertaining for my two-year-old to do than pull a bag over her head. I'm not going to put her in a bubble, but I'm not going to take a chance, either, kwim?
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#192 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 02:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
Plastic bags don't just suddenly shed a large piece. Usually, a piece must be ripped off by biting it, sucking it enough to stretch the material until it gives way, or clawing at it. I wouldn't let my child bite, suck, or otherwise rip a bag. Do you know how the pieces of those bags came off, and were they plastic produce bags? Did you see a few pages back where someone described getting a piece of plastic bag out of a child's mouth? Two children in 5 years really isn't that alarming of a 'statistic' to me either; it goes to show how extremely rare it is. My son is more likely to die from crossing the street. Or maybe even getting struck by lightning... And yes, I see that the lightning is more likely. 25 kids a year die from plastic bag suffocation... I began counting the number of deaths from lightning strikes this -month- and stopped at 25
Seriously, this year my cousin was struck by lightening and lived!
Go figger.
And I am not entirely joking when I tell you his lack of intelligence had nothing to do with it. It was sheer dumb luck. :

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#193 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 02:21 AM
 
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I voted I dont know what I would do. It depends. If the mom was just not seeing, I would probably say to the kid "uh huh, dont choke" or something like that. But if the mom was aware and ignoring, I'd probably be on my way thinking that she has the childs best interest at heart and would take it away if he started sucking it in or something.

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#194 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 02:24 AM
 
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I guess the way I look at it is: why risk it? It's not like I can't find something more entertaining for my two-year-old to do than pull a bag over her head.
In the grocery store? Well, um... spill coffee beans in the aisle? Practice cart acrobatic skills? Open juice boxes and assorted snack items to eat before paying?
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#195 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 02:28 AM
 
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In the grocery store? Well, um... spill coffee beans in the aisle? Practice cart acrobatic skills? Open juice boxes and assorted snack items to eat before paying?
Usually making fart sounds and sticking things up my nose does it.
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#196 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 02:36 AM
 
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Usually making fart sounds and sticking things up my nose does it.
Never tried that...
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#197 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 07:47 AM
 
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I voted that I would say something to the mother. Then I read all the posts. I would still say something to the mother.

I'm pretty laid back and I don't stress out about safety much at all, but in this case I would feel uncomfortable enough with the situation that I would feel I had to say something. If the woman was snarky or defensive to me I'd just, "Okay, I just wanted to let you know", and leave it at that.

I would like to point out that while the number of children who die from playing with plastic bags is small, it would probably be a bit higher if more people were letting their kids play with plastic bags on a regular basis. Most parents are pretty paranoid about that sort of thing and tend to treat the bags like radioactive waste.
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#198 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 08:13 AM
 
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I would address the child directly, "Oh honey, putting a bag over your head is not safe, you could have trouble breathing." Maybe some kids wouldn't remember/care but my son takes safety warnings very seriously, even did when he was a young toddler.

I wouldn't address the mom because I saw that go horribly awry once. A preschooler had spilled some juice and was LICKING THE FLOOR which I thought was gross but also funny, actually. The mom was turned the other way and didn't see, and I was like, "Your kid is licking the floor." She FREAKED OUT and ran over to him, shook his shoulders and screamed at him for like 5 minutes. In front of a crowd of his little friends and all their parents. Okay, so she had a 3-week-old baby and was really stressed, I don't think this incident defines her as a person or a mother, but it put me off of ever telling a parent about something their kid is doing if I can just say something to the kid myself instead.
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#199 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 08:25 AM
 
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I think that I would prefer that someone would say something to me, if they see my child doing something they think is dangerous. One of my kids can be very shy and if they think that someone is reprimanding them (even if they're not) they lose it and want to crawl back into my uterous (ouch!). But I think I probably would have watched to see if the mom knew what her child was doing before saying anything. If it didn't seem like she was aware of it, I would probably just say something along the lines of, "I wasn't sure if you knew that your baby had a plastic bag. I know how they love the way they crinkle." That way she could make the decision of how to handle it with her own kid, and hopefully, I wouldn't come off judgmental.

 
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#200 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 01:33 PM
 
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Just as an aside, most of the plastic grocery bags I'm given at grocery stores do have a little piece hanging off where the bag was poked through to put on the bag holding thingy.
But we are talking about plastic produce bags that don't have those pieces hanging off.

wednesday, Why is it your place to say something to someone else's child? So, because you told a mother something and she went and did something about it, you won't do it again? I don't get that. I'd much rather someone just give me a heads up than confuse or frighten my child. How do you know the child doesn't have stranger anxiety or isn't very shy? How do you know the child speaks English? My son has a speech delay and at ths age would probably just give you a goofy look and go back to his head games. What if its a little baby? What is saying something to the child going to accomplish? Do you think the child will obey you, not knowing you? What if its the kind of child who would start crying if a stranger talked to him, just screaming his head off? The mother will probably freak out even more then when she sees a total stranger talking to her crying child. You don't know other people's kids, and you don't have the right to parent them when their parent is right there unless they are in true danger, as in actively suffocating. I know it would weird me the heck out if I turned around to grab an apple, trned back around because of a scream, and noticed some stranger talking to my son as if I wasn't there.

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#201 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 01:49 PM
 
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My child bursts into tears when other adults talk to her. It's okay though, really. We had a few incidents over the weekend of adults intending to help - the lifeguard at the pool reminding not to run, a dude at the festival we went to telling her her balloon was dragging and could pop.

She starts to cry, I comfort her, tell the adult it's okay, and tell her that sometimes grown ups like to help kids if they think the kid is in trouble (she knows about "animal in trouble" from Diego).

For us I don't mind it at all, and I think it's good for her to get experiences of other adults trying to lend her a hand.

It's when people are obnoxious or holier-than-thou that I have a problem. Apart from that, it's cool.
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#202 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 02:46 PM
 
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wednesday, Why is it your place to say something to someone else's child? So, because you told a mother something and she went and did something about it, you won't do it again? I don't get that. I'd much rather someone just give me a heads up than confuse or frighten my child. How do you know the child doesn't have stranger anxiety or isn't very shy? How do you know the child speaks English? My son has a speech delay and at ths age would probably just give you a goofy look and go back to his head games. What if its a little baby? What is saying something to the child going to accomplish? Do you think the child will obey you, not knowing you? What if its the kind of child who would start crying if a stranger talked to him, just screaming his head off? The mother will probably freak out even more then when she sees a total stranger talking to her crying child. You don't know other people's kids, and you don't have the right to parent them when their parent is right there unless they are in true danger, as in actively suffocating. I know it would weird me the heck out if I turned around to grab an apple, trned back around because of a scream, and noticed some stranger talking to my son as if I wasn't there.
:

I think you read more into my post than I said. It never would have occurred to me that a kindly phrased, "That could hurt you, honey," would constitute "parenting someone else's child" or would possibly traumatize a child to the point of screaming.

I live in a small town in the south, people say "hi" or talk to other people's little ones in public all the time. Maybe it's a regional/cultural thing
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#203 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 04:04 PM
 
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It was obvious that it didn't occur to you, and that's why I pointed it out. I do think it is parenting someone else's child to tell them not to do something their parents allow them to do, and I know that all children respond differently to strangers. I say hi to young children as well, but only if the child is showing an obvious interest in me. If a child is quiet, avoiding my gaze, trying to stay out of sight, I won't say hi. Moreover, saying hi and smiling is different from giving a warning. Even saying it in a nice tone could be scary. I never said it would be traumatizing to talk to the child though; that's a gross exaggeration.

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#204 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 04:59 PM
 
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I do think it is parenting someone else's child to tell them not to do something their parents allow them to do
I guess we disagree, because in no way would I agree that a gentle caution stated directly to a child in any way equals telling them "not to do something their parents allow them to do."
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#205 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 05:02 PM
 
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Well, if I allow my son to play with a plastic produce bag, and you tell him not to do that, isn't that you telling him not to do something I allow him to do...?

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#206 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 05:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wednesday View Post
I guess we disagree, because in no way would I agree that a gentle caution stated directly to a child in any way equals telling them "not to do something their parents allow them to do."
I agree with you, Wednesday. I don't think a "that can hurt you, honey" said nicely is bad. Not one bit.
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#207 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 05:14 PM
 
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Also, it's interesting that we want children to be a part of society, treated w/ respect, etc, but yet can't talk gently and respectfully to them directly.

I guess some people do want their kid to live in a bubble.

Or a plastic bag. :
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#208 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 05:26 PM
 
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I would've said something to the mother along the lines of "Hey, I'm not sure if you noticed, but your DC has a plastic bag over their head". She can take it or leave it.
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#209 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 05:48 PM
 
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Try not to let yourself and your child's main contribution to the World be as a warning to others.
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#210 of 231 Old 07-10-2007, 05:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Demeter9 View Post
Try not to let yourself and your child's main contribution to the World be as a warning to others.
Huh?
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