Dealing with lousy neighbors/child safety issue, WWYD? - Mothering Forums

 
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#1 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've posted here before about our neighbors, and now there's something new. I don't interfere about the garbage in their yard, or the loud traffic that goes on there frequently. But now they've started putting a pit bull in the yard all weekend long, with no supervision. I think this totally sucks. Our yards run alongside each other, with a three foot chain link. The dog could easily jump it in a second, if he wanted.

What would you do? I've already dug around online, visited with the dog, and I've resolved that it is a big, yucky safety hazard to have an unsupervised pit bull in a yard where the only entertainment is my children and the trash that he tears apart. Where to go from here? Would you ask the neighbors to pay for a proper fence, or would you do it yourself? Or something else entirely? Thanks for reading.
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#2 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 12:13 PM
 
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Could you talk to them about him being outside unattended and let them know that it makes you nervous?

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#3 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 12:16 PM
 
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I would talk to the neighbors and tell them that you are concerned about the dog jumping the fence and attacking your children. See what they say.

If you don't get a resolution from your neighbors that you feel is fit, call ASPCA or your local animal welfare agency and tell them that there is a pit bull next door to you that is unsupervised and you think is neglected. They will take you seriously. If this dog gets loose, call police immediately.

You should be concerned. There is a pit bull that lives across from me. She is a sweet pup, but I'll always have one eye on her.

ETA: Pit bulls are excellent jumpers. The fence should be much higher than 3 feet..
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#4 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 12:18 PM
 
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Call the animal control officer in your police department (if they have one). That's a good place to start. If not, call the police and ask their advice.
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#5 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 12:23 PM
 
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If it were any other breed of dog would you be worried?
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#6 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 12:26 PM
 
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If I were nervous I would put up a higher stronger fence. I hate to see what people think of my parents having 3 rotties running in their yard.
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#7 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 12:27 PM
 
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I would be very worried. I would not feel comfortable at all letting my kids play in my yard with only a 3-foot fence separating them from an unattended pit bull.

I would mention it to the neighbor if I thought she would be receptive. If not, I'd call the police (not the emergency number, the non-emergency one) and see what advice they have.

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#8 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 12:36 PM
 
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I would put up a higher privacy fence.

Mama to Zoe (8/00), Morgan : (10/01), Brooke9/06), Casey 20wks (2/08), and Riley : (2/09)
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#9 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 12:46 PM
 
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I don't think the OP should have to pay for a fence to contain the neighbor's dog. It's the neighbor's responsibility to contain their own pet.

I would not be comfortable in the same situation with any dog that could leap that size fence.
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#10 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 01:09 PM
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Pit bulls are not in and of themselve dangerous. Has the dog given you a reason to be fearful of it? Are you scared of dogs in general? Or have you just bought the main-stream 'all pitts are EVILE!' blabber from the media.

Properly raised pitts are probably the sweetest, most gentle dogs on the planet. Conversely, even a yellow lab, famously kid friendly, can bite and do serious damage if properly provoked or startled.

If you want to bring this up with your neighbor, do it from the standpoint that dogs who arne't under their owners' supervision or control make you concerned, not that it is a OH NOZ! A PITTZBULL!
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#11 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 01:16 PM
 
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If it were any other breed of dog would you be worried?
I would.

But then I also admit that irresponsible people owning dogs with bad reputations freaks me out on several levels. Starting with "people like that are why those poor dogs have a bad reputation" and ending with "oh , if that dog bites my kids it's going to end up getting killed and it'll be those people's fault."

The breed of dog is relevant for two reasons:
1. It can jump the fence. A 3 foot fence would be fine if they had a dachsund or like maybe 2 other breeds of dog (seriously, even Shih Tzu's can jump a 3 foot fence and I wouldn't trust any dog owned by irresponsible people not to bite).

2. Breed bias. There is that worry in every interaction with the dog that any problem you have with the dog will end up getting the dog killed. Which makes taking actions that would be 100% fine if the dog was say a German Shepherd require more consideration. And that consideration can only be taken by people giving advice in this thread, particularly those familiar with breed bias issues, if they know the breed of dog.
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#12 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 01:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
Pit bulls are not in and of themselve dangerous. Has the dog given you a reason to be fearful of it? Are you scared of dogs in general? Or have you just bought the main-stream 'all pitts are EVILE!' blabber from the media.

Properly raised pitts are probably the sweetest, most gentle dogs on the planet. Conversely, even a yellow lab, famously kid friendly, can bite and do serious damage if properly provoked or startled.

If you want to bring this up with your neighbor, do it from the standpoint that dogs who arne't under their owners' supervision or control make you concerned, not that it is a OH NOZ! A PITTZBULL!
I agree with this to a point. Pit Bulls can be raised to be loving and sweet pets, like my neighbor's across the way. But something in the back of my mind just kind of nags at me. Maybe it's because I'm pregnant now, and a little paranoid, I'm not sure. I know it's wrong to put all Pit Bulls in one category, but I don't think it's wrong to maybe be a little cautious around certain kinds of dogs. But it is wise to be suspicious of any animal that is not properly supervised.
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#13 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 01:27 PM
 
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Pit bulls are not in and of themselve dangerous. Has the dog given you a reason to be fearful of it? Are you scared of dogs in general? Or have you just bought the main-stream 'all pitts are EVILE!' blabber from the media.

Properly raised pitts are probably the sweetest, most gentle dogs on the planet. Conversely, even a yellow lab, famously kid friendly, can bite and do serious damage if properly provoked or startled.

If you want to bring this up with your neighbor, do it from the standpoint that dogs who arne't under their owners' supervision or control make you concerned, not that it is a OH NOZ! A PITTZBULL!
My impression of the OP is that the dog is not being properly raised, they are leaving it out all weekend long with no supervision. I have known good pitbull owners as an adult, and have changed my view of them, however, as a child I grew up next to one that was not owned by responsible owners. We lived in constant fear as she repeatedly came onto our property (she was not fenced or contained) and attacked our dog and cat, at one point my brother thought she was coming after him, but apparenly it was the dog standing next to him, she then proceeded to grab the dog and shake her until the pitbull's owners came out and beat her with a stick. Oh, and the owners also threatened us with their dog when my father called the cops on them for shooting firearms off their deck into the neighborhood. (as in "My dog can kill your dog.")

To the OP, I would contact your local animal care and control. I know that where I used to live it was illegal to leave a dog out in a fenced in area with out proper shelter, food and water. I am sure the laws vary from area to area.
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#14 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 01:41 PM
 
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I wouldn't let my kids out to play with only a 3 foot fence between my yard and theirs. Never in a million years.

My dd1 babysat for a family with a pit bull last summer. Family pet - lived in the house and they adore it. I was very nervous, but tried to get past my "irrational fear" of that breed.

We were all standing in the kitchen when I came to pick dd up - that mom, her kids, the dog, me, my dd1. Dd1 and one of the kids were playing, laughing and tickling maybe? The dog suddenly lunged toward her with an "I mean it" growl. I am DONE letting her in that house. My insincts were set off when that happened, and if she gets bit in that house it is my fault too - for letting her go there when I KNOW better.

If people accept the risks of having a dog that is capable of doing that much harm, that is their option. I am not willing to accept those risks for my kids.

I'd talk to the neighbor about building a higher fence. If you don't get an attitude of willingness to do that, then I'd go to animal control, the police, etc. Maybe before you call, find out if it is the dog owner's responsibility to adequately fence a pit bull.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. It would be a big issue for me too.
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#15 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 01:44 PM
 
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Properly raised pitts are probably the sweetest, most gentle dogs on the planet. Conversely, even a yellow lab, famously kid friendly, can bite and do serious damage if properly provoked or startled.
But I think it would be easier to beat off an angry yellow lab than an angry pitt bull. Their strength & relentlessness when they're angry is what scares me most.

Mom to dd (8), ds (6), and dd (1)

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#16 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 01:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
Properly raised pitts are probably the sweetest, most gentle dogs on the planet. Conversely, even a yellow lab, famously kid friendly, can bite and do serious damage if properly provoked or startled.
OK, but this particular pit bull is "left outside unnatended all weekend long" and it doesn't sound like it's being "properly raised". I would be concerned about ANY dog in my neighbor's backyard under these conditions- unless it was a tiny one unable to jump the fence.

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#17 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 02:27 PM
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personally, i do not think it is appropriate to leave dogs unattended for days at a time. regardless of fencing and breed, there are a lot of things that could happen to the dog over the couple of days, and of course there are a lot of things that could happen to others on account of the dog during that time that the dog is unattended and/or happens to escape one way or another.

so, my first concern is really for the dog's welfare, then secondarily for the welfare of others on account of the dog. i would talk to the neighbor first--see what arrangements can be made--and then contact welfare groups to see what the solutions may be.

nearly any breed can be unpredictable depending upon a variety of circumstances, but i tend to be more cautious overall of larger and sturdier breeds being unpredictable because they can cause far more damage than a smaller breed.

i am very cautious, in particular of pitt bulls, rotties, and doberman's because in three instances i was "jumped" by such dogs and was quite lucky that my mother happened to be very close by when it happened. In all three cases, the neighbors were--as far as we could tell--very good dog owners raising well cared for and well trained dogs. i knew the dogs from when the neighbors walked them (and i would be allowed to pet them after following proper manners, etc).

in all three instances, the dogs simply 'got out' of the fenced areas (privacy fences no less) and rushed towards me and jumped on me, snapping near my face and grabbing m shirt and pulling at it, while growling and carrying on.

perhaps they were "sweetly playing" but in my 9-10 yr old mind and body, i was being attacked. my mother came out and grabbed the dogs and dragged them away, pulling them back to the neighbors who apologized profusely and checked to make sure that i didn't have bite marks (which i didn't).

so, perhaps the dogs were 'just playing' with me and 'being sweet' but it scared the crap out of me, and so i am particularly cautious of large dogs even now, and particularly when around small children.

but again, i'm cautious of all dogs this way. and truthfully, i really love dogs a lot.
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#18 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 02:27 PM
 
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Are there any pit bull laws in your city?

I feel sick on your behalf.

: Deirdre & the boys ('02 & '06 vintage)
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#19 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think I made a poor choice of words when I said 'All weekend long'. It seems that they take him in at night, although I'm not totally sure.

Another dog? Maybe. He's edgy, he is way too interested in what we do. My kids are boisterous and loud, and I feel way freaked out. I'm really uncomfortable, as I feel like, how do I talk to people who would make such stupid, selfish, irresponsible choices in the first place.

I appreciate the input. Right now I'm thinking of trying to talk to him, but taking all 3 of my kids parents, and some grandparents too, and saying 'All seven of us are very concerned about our children's safety', as to avoid being blown off or spoken diminutively to....we'll see.
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#20 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 06:57 PM
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But I think it would be easier to beat off an angry yellow lab than an angry pitt bull. Their strength & relentlessness when they're angry is what scares me most.
That is true of any dog, not just a pit. The supposed 'super-dog strength' which is overplayed by the media is essentially a myth. They are powerful dogs compared to, say, a shitzu, but they are A. NICER than shitzus and B. not particularly stronger than any other large breed dogs.
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#21 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 07:00 PM
 
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But, more importantly, how do you talk to a neighbor who isn't properly containing their dog?

Especially a neighbor who has a history of irresponsible behaviors?

Especially a neighbor who, in consideration of the above irresponsibility, may want the dog to be aggressive and unfriendly and might not be interested in raising the dog properly.
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#22 of 29 Old 04-28-2008, 07:11 PM
 
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I don't really think it's your neighbor's responsibility on this one. They have a fence. The dog hasn't gotten out (unless I'm missing something). This is not an animal control issue but an "I'm worrying about WHAT IF with a pit bull next door" issue. Thus, the solution has to come from you. I would fence my own yard in completely with an adequate fence. Other than that, there's not much to be done.
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#23 of 29 Old 04-29-2008, 01:46 AM
 
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That is true of any dog, not just a pit. The supposed 'super-dog strength' which is overplayed by the media is essentially a myth. They are powerful dogs compared to, say, a shitzu, but they are A. NICER than shitzus and B. not particularly stronger than any other large breed dogs.
okay, wait...I was right there with you til you said that pits are nicer than shih tzus...AFAIK, no shih tzu has ever killed anyone?!?

Mama to 2 sweet gorgeous children, a 4-year-old DS and a 1-year-old DD.
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#24 of 29 Old 04-29-2008, 02:51 AM
 
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If you have the funds to build a better fence I would do it.

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#25 of 29 Old 04-29-2008, 03:25 AM
 
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That is true of any dog, not just a pit. The supposed 'super-dog strength' which is overplayed by the media is essentially a myth. They are powerful dogs compared to, say, a shitzu, but they are A. NICER than shitzus and B. not particularly stronger than any other large breed dogs.
You can't go on and on about "breed bias" and back it up with breed bias. Holy Hypocrites!
How do you back that claim up? This one shih tzu I knew one time was unfriendly? And my well-trained pit is nice, so there, I'm right? The same faulty logic that leads to pit hatred in the first place, but it's okay 'cos you're on your side??
Shih Tzus are some of the chillest dogs I've had personal experience with. I've also known of Shih Tzus that are nasty little gremlins. Any sweeping generalization would be inaccurate.
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#26 of 29 Old 04-29-2008, 11:03 AM
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the supposed 'super-dog strength' which is overplayed by the media is essentially a myth....not particularly stronger than any other large breed dogs.

i agree that these dogs are not stronger than any larger breed dog, necessarily anyway, but they are stronger than smaller breed dogs which is why people would be less concerned if it was a smaller breed dog in the neighbor's yard.

it is true that smaller or larger dogs are not necessarily "nicer" than another--and that the care an animal is given does impact the behavior of that animal--but it is also true that a smaller breed dog is easier for a child or adult to handle, should anything unpredictable happen, than a large dog.

I think it's perfectly appropriate to talk to the neighbor about your concerns, in the hope that the neighbor will be able and willing to create a workable solution for both families.
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#27 of 29 Old 04-29-2008, 03:31 PM
 
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the supposed 'super-dog strength' which is overplayed by the media is essentially a myth....not particularly stronger than any other large breed dogs.
Is this true? I thought that the jaw strength of a pit bull was SIGNIFICANTLY greater than other dogs, which is why they cause more damage when they do attack. In other words, even if they don't attack proportionally more often than say a golden retriever (which I think is probably b.s. by the way, but let's just say it's accurate), a pit bull will do a lot more damage than a golden retriever due to their jaw strength / the power of their bite.
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#28 of 29 Old 04-29-2008, 04:17 PM
 
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In every place I've lived fencing was always split 50-50. Could you approach them with splitting the cost of a higher fence? That's the way my parents and their neighbours, our friends and their neighbours and us and our neighbour have done it.
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#29 of 29 Old 04-29-2008, 04:25 PM
 
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The man living across the street from us has a Pit Bull...and some other mixed breed dog. I am not the least bit concerned about them. Dogs don't scare me as a rule. HOWEVER...he ALWAYS goes outside with them. (They are both indoor dogs who only potty outside or go for walks.) He never leashes them but has them under control and they are well trained and well behaved. What the OP describes sounds to me to be a very neglected dog. (Hope I am wrong.) That alone is enough reason to not trust it. I agree the OP should not have to pay for proper fencing. I would discuss this with the neighbor first. If they are responsive, terrific...if not, I'd call animal control.

Good luck with it!

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