PSA: It's "voila", not "wallah" - Page 8 - Mothering Forums

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Old 01-06-2014, 09:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by limabean View Post


Not to be a broken record, but the thread was originally about spelling, not pronunciation. Writing "wallah" instead of "voila" can't just be chalked up to accents, it's just plain wrong.

Im a stickler for correct spelling myself, (although dont care as much about typos) and if writing in French, then i would write 'voila'. But since the person is not writing in French, but in English, it matters less.  English is full of borrowed words from other languages. Thats how languages evolve. But at present, 'voila' isnt considered English.

 

Take for eg, stool-well that  came from German, which is der Stuhl.(which means chair in German) Yet we say 'stool'. We also say chair, well that came from French,  'la chaise', but we dont say la chaise, we say 'chair', which, like stool from der Stuhl, evolved as a mistake from another language, and at some point became an English word.  So why apply stringent spelling rules from other languages to some words, and not to others?  (and what about the grave sign over the 'a'? Or is it an 'accute'? Either way, thats required in French for 'voila' to be spelled correctly)

 

So while i agree that it annoying to see a word misspelled/misspellt,(US versus Brit spelling)  if the word isnt English, its not a big deal. On the other hand, maybe we should consider that 'voila' which is used and understood extensively in English, to have become an English word, then it that case, spell it correctly! (who makes those decisions i wonder?)

 

Thats my take on it...

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Old 01-06-2014, 10:55 AM
 
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Wallah just looks dumb.
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Old 01-06-2014, 12:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

Im a stickler for correct spelling myself, (although dont care as much about typos) and if writing in French, then i would write 'voila'. But since the person is not writing in French, but in English, it matters less.  English is full of borrowed words from other languages. Thats how languages evolve. But at present, 'voila' isnt considered English.

Take for eg, stool-well that  came from German, which is der Stuhl.(which means chair in German) Yet we say 'stool'. We also say chair, well that came from French,  'la chaise', but we dont say la chaise, we say 'chair', which, like stool from der Stuhl, evolved as a mistake from another language, and at some point became an English word.  So why apply stringent spelling rules from other languages to some words, and not to others?  (and what about the grave sign over the 'a'? Or is it an 'accute'? Either way, thats required in French for 'voila' to be spelled correctly)

So while i agree that it annoying to see a word misspelled/misspellt,(US versus Brit spelling)  if the word isnt English, its not a big deal. On the other hand, maybe we should consider that 'voila' which is used and understood extensively in English, to have become an English word, then it that case, spell it correctly! (who makes those decisions i wonder?)

Thats my take on it...

I'm not a language maven. I embrace the fluidity of language, and I believe that language is enriched by organic changes and should not remain static. Writing "wallah," for me, does not fall into that category. It's more like writing "supposably," IMO. It's a mistake made by people who just plain don't know the right word.

Now if you'll excuse me I have a rondayvoo with some ordervs. wink1.gif

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Old 01-07-2014, 02:34 PM
 
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...Now if you'll excuse me I have a rondayvoo with some ordervs. wink1.gif

 

:rotflmao  Too funny!  Or maybe I should have said 'to funny', because I want to go there.  


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My Ohio in-laws do the "this needs washed" thing mentioned upthread. It drives me CRAZY!
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:26 AM
 
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Now if you'll excuse me I have a rondayvoo with some ordervs. wink1.gif

I actually think those words are used regularly enough in English, that they would be considered English. So you have misspelled them ;-) Restaurant would be another example. Thats English. Cafe is another one, definitely English even though clearly French in origin. "Voila' on the other hand, is probably used much less and would usually default to its English equivalent, 'here it is', or 'there it is'.  Again, i dont know who decides this. Its probably a matter of usage.

 

Actually, i usually pronounce 'restaurant' with a soft 't' at the end, in the way English usually doesnt drop it final letters, unlike French which usually does. It gets on my nerves when those from the UK i have heard,   attempt to pronounce restaurant the French way, with a strong English accent, ie,  pronouncing the 'ant'  the French way. If speaking English,  pronounce it the English way, instead of botching up two languages, at once! Thats what i think.

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Old 01-08-2014, 09:15 AM
 
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I actually think those words are used regularly enough in English, that they would be considered English. So you have misspelled them ;-) Restaurant would be another example. Thats English. Cafe is another one, definitely English even though clearly French in origin. "Voila' on the other hand, is probably used much less and would usually default to its English equivalent, 'here it is', or 'there it is'.  Again, i dont know who decides this. Its probably a matter of usage.

We just disagree. You seem to be saying that the phonetic spelling of "wallah" is acceptable for English speakers. I was just making a point that we borrow words from other languages all the time without resorting to phonetic spellings.

Now I gotta go slice some halapenyos for my torteeya.

Yes, many many words have been borrowed from other languages and then morphed. I love linguistic history and etymology, and find that stuff fascinating. For me, voila doesn't fall into that category. For you, maybe it does. You're right that it's all subjective and largely based on usage.

I do find it interesting that the British pronunciation of restaurant bugs you but "wallah" does not. For me it's the opposite! smile.gif

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Old 01-09-2014, 09:35 AM
 
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Actually, seeing voila spelled  that way would bug me. I was playing devils advocate and convinced myself not to be bugged!

 

I still think that there are rules for English,  but those rules are not relevant to non English words. I think its admirable to get the words right, but not necessary. The question remains for me, what qualifies as English? 

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Old 01-16-2014, 12:04 PM
 
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Actually, seeing voila spelled  that way would bug me. I was playing devils advocate and convinced myself not to be bugged!

 

I still think that there are rules for English,  but those rules are not relevant to non English words. I think its admirable to get the words right, but not necessary. The question remains for me, what qualifies as English? 

 

agree on both points. It does bug me though I'm not sure its rational. But it feels like nails on a chalkboard :rotflmao.

 

I think this is an interesting debate to have here too, with it being an international board. We have British English, American English, Canadian English, New Zealand English, Australian English here, and I bet we have others from other countries where English is an official or majority language, eg Belize. 

 

My feeling, as a British person, is, you dominate and exploit over half the world with an empire, you can't be precious about your language. But that's just me.


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Old 01-16-2014, 12:38 PM
 
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Might be off topic but I just have to share. I was raised in NJ, then after I got married we moved to NC. Redneck, is its own language. It took me years to understand the phrases and words. And if someone has a badd enough accent I still have trouble, even after 9 years!
here we go-
Yunns for ploural you
y'all for you all
Y'alls ploural of y'all (y'alls made it!)
Y'alls' ploural posessive (can we come to y'alls' house?)
Youngin for baby or child
plum over yonder for right over there

ETA-
Briches is redneck for pants
all sneakers are tennis shoes lol
Tatters as in potatoes
dressing for stuffing (this one baffled me for years. It was only recently that I realized they meant stuffing and not like salad dressing )

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:07 AM
 
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Might be off topic but I just have to share. I was raised in NJ, then after I got married we moved to NC. Redneck, is its own language. It took me years to understand the phrases and words. And if someone has a badd enough accent I still have trouble, even after 9 years!
here we go-
Yunns for ploural you
y'all for you all
Y'alls ploural of y'all (y'alls made it!)
Y'alls' ploural posessive (can we come to y'alls' house?)
Youngin for baby or child
plum over yonder for right over there

ETA-
Briches is redneck for pants
all sneakers are tennis shoes lol
Tatters as in potatoes
dressing for stuffing (this one baffled me for years. It was only recently that I realized they meant stuffing and not like salad dressing )

 

Southern culture has a language of it's own!!! Y'all is perfectly acceptable down here and I even use it. It's a southern thing! Although... y'all is plural on it's own. You is singular, y'all is plural, but there is the y'alls as a plural possessive (i.e. y'alls house).  I've never seen y'alls as a plural of y'all. That would be redundant. Sneakers are usually interchangeable with tennis shoes, taters is most often used for referring to a dish made from potatoes, britches and pants usually happen interchangeably also. Dressing though is "dressing" that we have at Thanksgiving. Stuffing is a different thing entirely and is some that is being "stuffed" into another food item like stuffed turkey or stuffed crabs have stuffing in them. Nobody here has "stuffing" for Thanksgiving because how is it stuffing if it isn't stuffed? LOL

 

Southerns do have a language of their own and the rednecks tend to run everything together. My MIL and her family do the one that drives me crazy the most though... everything ends in -er, as in win-der instead of win-dow! This woman actually tried to help my DD with homework one day... um thank you but DON'T!

 

We have entire populations of stupidity here though other than the redneck terminology. I seen or I seen'd, I been'd done that, She gone get, and the list goes on. AGHHHHH!!!!!! It's amazing how little education some people have. There word that I think makes me the craziest though is skreet as in "I done crossed that skreet," instead of "I crossed that street." 

 

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Old 01-17-2014, 09:36 AM
 
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Lol yes!! See, I still hadn't figured the dressing thing out tho LMBO thank you for clearing that up.
And just so you know I wasn't being mean or rude. If it makes you feel better you can pick on me for being a Yank!

And with my FIL everything that has a potato in it is taters (" fried taters, mashed taters, go digs us up some taters outta the garden")
It amuses me X D

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Old 01-17-2014, 09:59 AM
 
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LOL oh I wasn't offended. I AM southern and it makes me nuts! I think the dressing/stuffing thing is hilarious though. That's funny about your FIL. I know some people like that too with it always being taters. Just don't let him catch on to the win-der thing! :rotflmao


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Old 01-17-2014, 10:17 AM
 
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In some Southern areas, "all y'all" is plural  of y'all. As in, "There's room for all y'all in my pickup". Possessive is "y'all's", singular or plural, as in, "We couldn't all fit in y'all's Prius".


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Old 01-17-2014, 10:37 AM
 
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Lol yes!! See, I still hadn't figured the dressing thing out tho LMBO thank you for clearing that up.
And just so you know I wasn't being mean or rude. If it makes you feel better you can pick on me for being a Yank!

And with my FIL everything that has a potato in it is taters (" fried taters, mashed taters, go digs us up some taters outta the garden")
It amuses me X D


Does your FIL`s tater rule apply to potato fudge too?

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Old 01-17-2014, 10:55 AM
 
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Never heard of it. He's very fond of tater salad lol

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Old 01-17-2014, 11:28 AM
 
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LOL I'm pretty fond of pinto beans and taters myself :)


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Old 01-20-2014, 08:35 AM
 
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Oh, and a current trend that replaces while with whilst. Trying to be classy? Sounds pretentious to me. Same with amongst substituting for among. Sorry to whoever titled this forum.hide.gif


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Old 01-20-2014, 11:33 AM
 
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I don't say those but they sound poetic to me. The KJV bible uses 'em LOL

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Old 01-20-2014, 11:36 AM
 
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Oh, and a current trend that replaces while with whilst. Trying to be classy? Sounds pretentious to me. Same with amongst substituting for among. Sorry to whoever titled this forum.hide.gif

The only people I know who say those words that way are from the U.K. That could be normal usage there.

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Old 01-21-2014, 01:28 PM
 
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As a person who says "wa-wa" for water (in public I might add!)

We say wallah! It's the south and it's America, not Italy.
Who gives a rat's patooey?

France my dear France.  Yep, i agree that its not English.

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Old 01-21-2014, 01:29 PM
 
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Oh, and a current trend that replaces while with whilst. Trying to be classy? Sounds pretentious to me. Same with amongst substituting for among. Sorry to whoever titled this forum.hide.gif

Whats classy got to do it? Its correct  English.

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Old 01-22-2014, 05:42 AM
 
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Whats classy got to do it? Its correct  English.

Is while and among incorrect?


 
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:35 AM
 
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They are both correct  depending on the context.

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Old 01-22-2014, 07:41 AM
 
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to be more precise-

 

<<   Among and Amongst

The prepositions among and amongst both mean amidst, surrounded by or in the company of. They can be used interchangeably in the UK. In the US, amongst is very rare and is only really used in literary prose seeking to add a sense of the old fashioned. Most in the US would consider the use of amongst to be wrong in a formal document.

In the UK, life is easy. Brits can choose whichever version they think sounds best to them.

Some examples:

 
  • Truth springs from argument amongst friends.
    (Scottish philosopher David Hume, 1711-1776)
  • To put a cat amongst the pigeons.
    (Note: A well-known saying which means to cause a stir.)
  • Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator, but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
    (W.H. Auden, 1907-1973)
  • Man is an animal which, alone among the animals, refuses to be satisfied by the fulfilment of animal desires.
    (Alexander Graham Bell, 1847-1922)
  • Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it.
    (American writer and producer Jane Wagner) >>

  from  http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/among_amongst.htm#HGkBKUYpKh0DYyUe.99  
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

Actually, seeing voila spelled  that way would bug me. I was playing devils advocate and convinced myself not to be bugged!

 

I still think that there are rules for English,  but those rules are not relevant to non English words. I think its admirable to get the words right, but not necessary. The question remains for me, what qualifies as English? 


Interesting question! A lot of those French words do seem like they ought to be part of the English language by now (and subject to alternate spellings). I want to say that I have seen (or used to see?) these words used in italics, as "intentionally French", in older books? Sort of like a way for people to show off how fancy they were.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:00 AM
 
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to be more precise-

 

<<   Among and Amongst

The prepositions among and amongst both mean amidst, surrounded by or in the company of. They can be used interchangeably in the UK. In the US, amongst is very rare and is only really used in literary prose seeking to add a sense of the old fashioned. Most in the US would consider the use of amongst to be wrong in a formal document.

In the UK, life is easy. Brits can choose whichever version they think sounds best to them.

Some examples:

 
  • Truth springs from argument amongst friends.
    (Scottish philosopher David Hume, 1711-1776)
  • To put a cat amongst the pigeons.
    (Note: A well-known saying which means to cause a stir.)
  • Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator, but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
    (W.H. Auden, 1907-1973)
  • Man is an animal which, alone among the animals, refuses to be satisfied by the fulfilment of animal desires.
    (Alexander Graham Bell, 1847-1922)
  • Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it.
    (American writer and producer Jane Wagner) >>

  from  http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/among_amongst.htm#HGkBKUYpKh0DYyUe.99  

Interesting!  I love learning about language and the way it develops!


 
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:00 AM
 
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Stephen Fry:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY

 

Enjoy!


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