Rejecting standard procedures--for those who hospital birth - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This will be my 3rd child birthed in the hospital. 

 

Do you reject the standard procedures like antibiotic cream, vitamin K, hepatitis shots?

 

I did with my second, and I'd like to with my third.

 

What are your thoughts about these SPs?


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#2 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 06:39 AM
 
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I haven't had hospital births, but I do reject all these things and would even if I did plan on birthing in a hospital.  My thought process is this:

 

*Vitamin K is for blood clotting... do you plan on circumcising within a week of the birth?  If so, yes get this, if not then no worries.  It is highly unlikely your baby will be injured badly enough within that first week to necessitate clotting help.

 

*Antibiotic eye ointment: do you have any STD's?  That's what this is for.

 

*Hep B shot: this is no longer standard in all places largely b/c it makes zero sense.  Hep B is a STD.  It's also a risk if baby needs a blood transfusion.  It is highly unlikely either of these things will be affecting your baby at birth.  If you choose to vax you can always get the series later on.  Otherwise, I personally decline it all together.

 

If you declined them with your last baby, what has changed your mind about considering them with this baby?


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#3 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm rejecting all for this baby, too. Just want to hear others thoughts on these procedures/practices. 

 

I have to get another c-section, because I can't go for a v-bac, so the antibiotic ointment is def. a NO. The others are a NO, too. 


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#4 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 07:55 AM
 
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This is pretty much me too.  My exceptions are that my children need to have their tongues clipped within a few days of birth (so far they've both been tongue tied).  Most pediatricians won't do it unless you've had some sort of vitamin-k.  I opted to do the oral version with my DD as I feel it's less invasive.   I also do the PKU test, as it only requires a few drops of blood and it could potentially save a life.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimee View Post

I haven't had hospital births, but I do reject all these things and would even if I did plan on birthing in a hospital.  My thought process is this:

 

*Vitamin K is for blood clotting... do you plan on circumcising within a week of the birth?  If so, yes get this, if not then no worries.  It is highly unlikely your baby will be injured badly enough within that first week to necessitate clotting help.

 

*Antibiotic eye ointment: do you have any STD's?  That's what this is for.

 

*Hep B shot: this is no longer standard in all places largely b/c it makes zero sense.  Hep B is a STD.  It's also a risk if baby needs a blood transfusion.  It is highly unlikely either of these things will be affecting your baby at birth.  If you choose to vax you can always get the series later on.  Otherwise, I personally decline it all together.

 

If you declined them with your last baby, what has changed your mind about considering them with this baby?



 


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#5 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 08:28 AM
 
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I don't do the hep shots or eye ointment, but I do opt for vitamin K.  Just a personal choice.  I don't live my life by "what-if's" but on the of chance something went wrong an my child needed something done I would hate for them to not have had it- its just one I feel is worth it. 

 

 


 
 
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#6 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 08:39 AM
 
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With my daughter, I rejected the eye ointment. Since they mostly put it in there because of STD's and I knew I didn't have any and didn't have a yeast infection, so I told them no ointment. They almost put it in her eyes when they were doing her apgar. Pissed me off. And then her old pediatrician chastized me for not doing the ointment. Bleh.

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#7 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 08:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraisme View Post

This is pretty much me too.  My exceptions are that my children need to have their tongues clipped within a few days of birth (so far they've both been tongue tied).  Most pediatricians won't do it unless you've had some sort of vitamin-k.  I opted to do the oral version with my DD as I feel it's less invasive.   I also do the PKU test, as it only requires a few drops of blood and it could potentially save a life.

 



 


Tongues clipped? *gulp*
 

 

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#8 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 08:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by IwannaBanRN View Post


Tongues clipped? *gulp*
 

I let Abra fill you in on the exact procedure, but if a baby has a tight frenulum (referred to as tongue tied) it can prevent a good latch and really get in the way of breastfeeding.  Abra, does it bleed a lot?  I thought I heard it was relatively quick and painless.
 

 


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#9 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 09:08 AM
 
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Yes, it's basically a thin piece of skin under the tongue that "ties" the tongue into the mouth.  It is a minor procedure and it doesn't bleed for more than a minute or two.  It's one of those things that I think is totally worth the small amount of pain that it causes.

 

Both of my children could not stick out their tongues past their lower gums.  It can prevent a baby from getting a proper latch and lead to breastfeeding issues.  In my case, my nipples were torn apart and breastfeeding was excruciating for the first 6 weeks.  With my DS I waited until he was 2 weeks old to have his tongue clipped, by then the damage was done and it took a long time to heal.  With my DD I had hers done at 3 days old and my breastfeed experience was so much better! 
 

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Originally Posted by Jaimee View Post



I let Abra fill you in on the exact procedure, but if a baby has a tight frenulum (referred to as tongue tied) it can prevent a good latch and really get in the way of breastfeeding.  Abra, does it bleed a lot?  I thought I heard it was relatively quick and painless.
 

 



 


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#10 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 10:16 AM
 
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We're doing a homebirth this time and will not do eye ointment, vitamin K, or hepatitus B shot.  I will do the PKU test though.  Last time was a wonderful hospital birth and nobody hassled us about skipping eye ointment or hep b shot.  We did the vitamin K because it was a long enough drive from the hospital and I couldn't handle the "what if."  This time with the home birth though I feel safe skipping the vitamin K too. 


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#11 of 41 Old 06-24-2011, 04:51 PM
 
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I never knew that. That's nuts.

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#12 of 41 Old 06-25-2011, 05:39 PM
 
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We had a homebirth transfer in the hospital, and chose to have the VitK and PKU, but forgo the eye ointment. I don't think they do Hep B at birth in Canada, but if they do, I didn't get it, and wouldn't have. 

 

 


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#13 of 41 Old 06-25-2011, 07:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimee View Post

 

*Vitamin K is for blood clotting... do you plan on circumcising within a week of the birth?  If so, yes get this, if not then no worries.  It is highly unlikely your baby will be injured badly enough within that first week to necessitate clotting help.


Vitamin K IS for blood clotting -- but it's given at birth to prevent bleeding in the brain... it's not for external bleeding.  My midwife says she suggests it after a very long or rough labor and many hours of pushing.

 

I am an Early Intervention Specialist, and I worked with a child who did not have a vitamin K shot and who DID have bleeding in the brain.  He is one of the most profoundly physically and mentally retarded children I have ever met.  If a Vitamin K shot is recommended by my midwife -- and yes, every situation is different -- I'll do it.  But I'm not planning on it.  My mom's labors were all quick and easy, and I'm hoping mine will be, too!


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#14 of 41 Old 06-26-2011, 04:40 PM
 
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We have declined everything but the PKU with our last 3 babies. We always wait to decide on Vit K depending on how birth goes. Our pediatrician told us that at his office they don't even count that first Hep B shot as part of the vax routine. Not sure if it's that way everywhere and we don't do Hep B anyway, but I thought that was interesting.


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#15 of 41 Old 06-26-2011, 09:20 PM
 
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There is a chance we'll be hospital birthing. In a city we've never lived in before. I will be calling hospitals sometime this week to get information, as well as the midwife group associated with one of the hospitals about their policies with patients who decline procedures, etc.

 

ETA: I'll be decline continuous monitoring, an IV (may be open to a heplock), food/drink restrictions (I never usually eat during labor, but want to maintain the option), vaginal exams except upon admission, eye goop, hep b vaccination, circumcision if its a boy, pretty much EVERYTHING but a PKU test. I am seriously going to be a major PITA for a hospital patient. I basically want my UC in the hospital. And if that means I lock myself in the bathroom and refuse admission to anybody else, so be it.


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#16 of 41 Old 06-26-2011, 10:32 PM
 
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We did vit K. To me benefits otweight the risks. I do not care about oitment and I said "yes". I get why the hospital protocol is there. Many people think they do not have STDs, but they do and risk of oitment is very low.  We asked for Hep B at 6 month rather than at birth. No one had any issues with that request.

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We do PKU but none of the others, though I think about Vit K again every time (the other two are no-brainers)

 

My pediatrician used to be a pediatric hematologist, and while she wouldn't counsel me NOT to give it, she also had no qualms at all about my skipping it -- she said certain ethnic groups had much higher risks of vit K problems and most of the rest were due to very inadequate prenatal diets and/or mothers who were on certain medications, like anti-seizure meds, which apparently greatly deplete or prevent the absorption of vitamin K. Spontaneous newborn bleeding in a baby whose mother did not fall into any of those categories was extremely rare.

 

Personally, I watched all three of my kids get the PKU done and they had to prick each one multiple times and do much massaging to get even the droplet of blood they needed. Seemed to me there was no clotting problem! (Though I'm aware that's probably more due to circulation issues.)

 

 

 

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We'll do the PKU and my midwife will have vitamin K just in case of a lot of facial/head bruising and or if there is a vacuum assist.. Our last had the vitamin K only because when his heart dropped below mine they used a vacuum on my second push and he had some cupping and bruising from it. If there is no need for it my midwife brings a vitamin K tincture that I take for a few days.

 

We'll also do a hearing screen.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsKatie View Post
Vitamin K IS for blood clotting -- but it's given at birth to prevent bleeding in the brain... it's not for external bleeding.  My midwife says she suggests it after a very long or rough labor and many hours of pushing.

 

I am an Early Intervention Specialist, and I worked with a child who did not have a vitamin K shot and who DID have bleeding in the brain.  He is one of the most profoundly physically and mentally retarded children I have ever met.  If a Vitamin K shot is recommended by my midwife -- and yes, every situation is different -- I'll do it.  But I'm not planning on it.  My mom's labors were all quick and easy, and I'm hoping mine will be, too!

Thanks for posting this MrsKatie as I had not really heard about brain bleeds and the role vitamin K would play in this situation.  Can you provide more information?  Like statistics or a study?  I'm curious to learn more!  smile.gif

Quote:
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I get why the hospital protocol is there. Many people think they do not have STDs, but they do and risk of oitment is very low. 

Sure, this makes sense for some and I know that the prenatal screening can have false negatives.  But many of us know for certain that we do not have gonorrhea or chlamydia.  Other types of "ordinary bacteria" in the vaginal canal that can cause eye infections are not serious and can usually be cleared up easily with a little breast milk in the eye instead of with irritating silver nitrate or antibiotics.  We consented to "the goop" with our first b/c I hadn't done a ton  of research and I think that dd had a very hard time seeing through it.  IMO, those first moments of quiet alert are so important for bonding and since I know I don't carry STD's I feel confident declining it.
 

 


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Thanks for posting this MrsKatie as I had not really heard about brain bleeds and the role vitamin K would play in this situation.  Can you provide more information?  Like statistics or a study?  I'm curious to learn more!  smile.gif

 

Sure!

 

http://drbenkim.com/vitamin-K-shot-baby.html

 

http://thebabybond.com/VitaminKinjectORnot.html

 

http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Vitamin-K-Does-Your-Baby-Really-Need-It-

 

It's a tough and very controversial issue, and my opinion is obviously tainted by my experience with that one child... but it's likely that I'll forgo the Vitamin K shot, as the risks seem scary, and the benefits so rare.  But again, I'm not totally sure, just because of that one little boy I knew who had such a devastating outcome that could have been avoided with a Vitamin K shot.
 

 


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#21 of 41 Old 06-29-2011, 05:19 PM
 
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Pretty much anytime I met someone at work who was diagnosed with STD was 100% sure that there is not way that had one as their partner would never do such thing to the,

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Okay, but some of us actually know for a fact.  That's all I'm saying.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Pretty much anytime I met someone at work who was diagnosed with STD was 100% sure that there is not way that had one as their partner would never do such thing to the,


DDCC to add: I don't know about US protocol, but standard prenatal testing in Canada includes testing for most STDs. So it's not necessarily a huge leap of faith to assume you haven't picked up a one in the few months between testing and birth.

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It is huge leap of faith actually. Many things can happen in course of few months . 

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Yes, if you tested  few weeks before birth and had no oral or intercourse sex with anyone, you do know for a fact. You are correct in this case.

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Okay, but some of us actually know for a fact.  That's all I'm saying.



 

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#26 of 41 Old 06-29-2011, 10:06 PM
 
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what are these things for vit k and everything else you all have talked about? i've never heard of the babes getting these things done to them.. is it after there born or like vaccinations?


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Okay, but some of us actually know for a fact.  That's all I'm saying.


Exactly. I walked out on the CNM that I first saw with this pregnancy because when I declined the Chlamydia and Ghonorhhea (I always butcher that spelling!) testing she looked my husband in the eye and said "Well, how do I know he's not sleeping around on you?" O.o

 

Some of us know for a fact that our relationships are monogamous. I'd be willing to bet mine and my children's lives on it. So yea, I do know for a fact.

 


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#28 of 41 Old 06-30-2011, 05:37 AM
 
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what are these things for vit k and everything else you all have talked about? i've never heard of the babes getting these things done to them.. is it after there born or like vaccinations?


There are several newborn procedures that are standard protocol in most hospitals and birth centers.  Even homebirth mw's will offer them to you.  They are performed either directly after the birth or a little bit afterward.  Often you have to request that these procedures be delayed if you would like quiet bonding time first.  Or decline some or all of them all together.

 

Vitamin K is for blood clotting assistance since newborns have difficulty clotting their blood for the first few days.  If baby were to be injured, circumcised, need surgery, or as a pp mentioned- have a bleed in the brain (though I have not heard this before... I'm waiting to learn more about it) during this time, vitamin K would be necessary.  However, the vast majority of babies will not be dealing with any of these things within the first few days of life.  This is also why traditionally the Jewish bris (and other similar cultural practices) are put off until 8 days after birth.

 

Antibiotic eye ointment (aka "goop") is put in their eyes to prevent eye infections that can cause blindness.  These infections are most commonly caused by STD's like Chlamydia or Gonorrhea.  But more minor infections can be caused by normal bacteria present in the vaginal canal.  These minor infections do not cause blindness and can usually be easily cleared up by squirting some breastmilk in the eye.   You were likely tested for STD's at the beginning of your pregnancy, but these tests do have false negatives and as a pp has mentioned there are women who do not know if they have these STD's or not b/c cheating does happen.  However, as I have mentioned several times, some of us KNOW that our dh's are not cheating  on us and therefore we know we don't not have STD's.

 

Hep B is a vaccine and it was routinely given at birth to protect against this STD if baby should need to get a blood transfusion.  The likelihood of baby needing a blood transfusion and contracting the disease is very low.  Many places have now stopped giving this vax at birth and you can always get it later if you decide you want to vaccinate.

 

Genetic screening: this is a heel stick where they test for a huge variety of genetic metabolic disorders.  PKU is probably the most well known, which needs to be diagnosed immediately if baby has it, though it is hardly common (less than 1% of the population and varies by ethnicity).   The problem is that the test is not accurate until baby has actually digested some food.  Usually it is given within 48 hours of birth b/c most baby's leave the hospital after that, but it needs to be given again a week later to confirm the results.  Many parents opt to simply wait a few days and only test once so it is accurate the first time.

 

Newborn hearing screen: the hospital, birth center or your ped will give you a referral to get your baby's hearing testing usually a couple weeks after birth.  It's usually state mandated and your ped will generally hound you until you do it.  They just put earphones and an electrode on baby and see if baby responds to noises.  It's pretty quick and certainly doesn't hurt.  But I never got around to it with my second and it's clear he hears just fine. 

 

There are pros and cons to these tests and when they are given so definitely read up some  more before making your decision!

 


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#29 of 41 Old 06-30-2011, 11:20 AM
 
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Vitamin K is for blood clotting assistance since newborns have difficulty clotting their blood for the first few days.  If baby were to be injured, circumcised, need surgery, or as a pp mentioned- have a bleed in the brain (though I have not heard this before... I'm waiting to learn more about it) during this time, vitamin K would be necessary. 

 



Hey Jaimee!

 

If you look a few posts back (I think the bottom of page 1), I posted a few links you can check out re: Vitamin K and bleeding in the brain.


Katie, married to my beloved Paddy

Catherine Anne "KJ" born November 10th, 2011

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#30 of 41 Old 06-30-2011, 12:25 PM
 
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Thanks Katie, I missed them when the thread jumped to the next page.  We will still be declining the shot, but I will put more thought into supplementation while breastfeeding.


Mama to Avalon 1/07 waterbirth.jpg, Austin 1/10 in between uc.jpgand Avery 12/11  h20homebirth.gif
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