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#301 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 09:35 AM
 
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Quote originally posted by jbk21:

Also, I don't understand why it's now okay to bully the pro-bfing moms but NOT okay to say a negative word about formula.  I asked an honest, no judgement question on twitter ("is it more convenient to bf or formula feed") and got jumped.  Lol.  I was told I was being judgmental for even asking the question.  Frustrating.  Now where am I supposed to go to vent?!  (oh yes, here, haha).  I usually vent on twitter b/c there are fewer real-life friends than on facebook.  (i'm not the only one who does this, right?).

 

I don't understand this either, ugh! Why is everything that is natural, normal, and healthy from a historical and biological standpoint shunned in our society?! America makes me so mad........ I swear....... My brother told me that my mom is even complaining to people behind my back about how I shouldn't be cloth diapering, like she's concerned about how much work it will be and time consuming and an inconvenience for other people watching the baby - like daycare. Well, news flash to mother! I'm not even planning to have my child in daycare unless it's a last resort, and no matter how much I tell her I'm excited about CDing and any work involved doesn't bother me, she still inserts her two cents that it'll be an inconvenience for me. I've even explained from a financial standpoint that it's best for us too, but that of course doesn't mean anything to her because she and my dad have lots of money and a few thousand $ in savings means nothing to her. angry.gif Let's not even mention how anything we're planning to do naturally that is HEALTHIER for our baby is absolutely ignored by a lot of people, especially my mother, as if it's abnormal that we want to sacrifice for our child in any way we can to give her the best start and avoid introducing toxins and chemicals to her precious little infant self... Why is that not enough reason? Why is the healthiest choice never a good enough reason for people? I just don't understand why we're judged for these things and I don't think I ever will. greensad.gif


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#302 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 09:36 AM
 
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I really don't like the idea of blaming women for a lot of these things... not breastfeeding, c-sections, etc. Many, many women are uneducated about their choices. Even if they try to educated themselves, they are likely doing it with very mainstream publications (think What to Expect), which do treat breastfeeding vs. formula feeding as a  lifestyle, convenience based decision. Also, there is a huge cultural/ community component to the decision to breastfeed. In some communities/ cultures, breastfeeding is seen as gross. That is an enormous hurdle for a woman to overcome, especially if she needs support with child care, etc. Younger mothers and mothers living in poverty are far less likely to breastfeed. 

 

Also, I think we sometimes claim pumping is a lot easier than it actually is. If you are living in poverty and working for minimum wage, I can't imagine pumping at work is going to be easy. Pair this with a daycare provider who doesn't want the hassle of dealing with your pumped milk, and friends and family who don't support your decision. It would be very difficult to keep pumping in this type of situation. 

 

As far as making formula prescription only, that is a terrible slippery-slope of the government controlling personal decisions. What would be next? Prescription only cribs? Pacifiers? In my opinion, formula should be very readily available to those who choose to use it. My completely anecdotal reason why? I remember my cousin running out of formula once (the only time I was around her and her baby.) Instead of getting more, she mixed non-dairy coffee creamer and water together and fed it to the baby. I 100% believe she thought that would be okay temporarily; she was not trying to hurt her baby. Again, we have a severe lack of education. If she had to get a prescription and go to the pharmacy, how many more times might that have happened? 

 

 

Anyway, I'm off on a tangent. I know the original woman that sparked this topic is not living in the type of situation I am talking about. But I still think my point is important. Too often I think we see non-breastfeeding women as this uniform group of mothers not choosing what is best for their babies. I just think there is a lot more to it than that. 


Amanda, mom to dsd (16), dd (11), dd (8), and ds (born 11/12/11).
 

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#303 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 09:54 AM
 
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Quote originally posted by jbk21:

We live in a country where we are, in some cases, "lucky" enough to have options when we need them.  Sure.  But, we have lost the understanding that children = sacrifice.  I understand that many decisions are made because of the sanity of the mother (many think bfing is a prison, or get fed up with the sleepless nights, etc.)  But I think that stems from a lack of social support- things were done very differently centuries (even decades) ago.  There was much more support available (by family members, churches, friends) for new mothers than there is now.  We have essentially isolated ourselves during a time when we most need our "village".

 

This is another thing that stuck out to me as very important and unfortunate these days... the fact that we don't have the support systems we used to. It makes me tear up when I think of how much I would give anything to have the support that people had generations ago while raising children. My friend is married to a man whose family runs an organic farm and store out in the country in Wisconsin. It's about an hour away from me in the Milwaukee area, a much different environment! She just gave birth to their first baby on Saturday via home birth and it was so wonderful. I visited again a few days later and I couldn't even believe the support of neighbors and family friends who were stopping by around the clock. Her mother cleaned her entire house. Neighbors were bringing over fresh vegetables from their gardens and foods they pickled and jarred, everything you can imagine! My friend is being treated like a queen, as she should be. Nobody wants her having to lift a finger while she's recovering from childbirth, even though she has felt amazing since even right after the birth. Everyone just wants her to relax and breastfeed her beautiful little baby. I would give anything to have that kind of lifestyle! greensad.gif It really breaks my heart that we'll have nothing even close to that kind of support. I can totally understand why people have to exercise options other than natural ones when taking care of their babies if they don't have the support necessary to maintain a certain way of daily living. I honestly don't think I'd be able to maintain breastfeeding if I were working full time, even though I'll have a pump, so I don't plan to go back to work full time for at least the first year of my baby's life. I'll find any job possible, even a much lower paying one, that will allow me to work part time on a flexible schedule to work around my husband's schedule so one of us can take care of her at all times. That's my goal at least!

 

On another positive note, I wanted to share something that happened to me a few days ago. My husband and I were waiting for an elevator at a hotel with nobody around except one other man waiting alongside us. When the door opened, he held out his hand in front of him and said in a really thick African accent, "Please, VIP person first!" and smiled ear to ear at me. He was referring to me being pregnant. When I stepped into the elevator with my husband, he followed us in and said, "Nobody can do what you do," and was just saying the most uplifting things about how amazing women are for carrying babies. I wanted to cry, I was so touched. My husband smiled at him and nodded his head to everything he was saying. I thanked the man profusely for how good it felt to be appreciated. But I mean, I've never had anyone say anything even remotely as appreciative of my pregnant self in that way before -- let alone by a complete stranger! It was really telling that a man who was clearly from a different country views pregnant mamas as such special, hard working, and beautiful beings. biggrinbounce.gif


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#304 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 09:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkToMeNow View Post

I really don't like the idea of blaming women for a lot of these things... not breastfeeding, c-sections, etc. Many, many women are uneducated about their choices. Even if they try to educated themselves, they are likely doing it with very mainstream publications (think What to Expect), which do treat breastfeeding vs. formula feeding as a  lifestyle, convenience based decision. Also, there is a huge cultural/ community component to the decision to breastfeed. In some communities/ cultures, breastfeeding is seen as gross. That is an enormous hurdle for a woman to overcome, especially if she needs support with child care, etc. Younger mothers and mothers living in poverty are far less likely to breastfeed. 

 

Also, I think we sometimes claim pumping is a lot easier than it actually is. If you are living in poverty and working for minimum wage, I can't imagine pumping at work is going to be easy. Pair this with a daycare provider who doesn't want the hassle of dealing with your pumped milk, and friends and family who don't support your decision. It would be very difficult to keep pumping in this type of situation. 

 


I agree. I used to be a part of What To Expect, and alot of the things that are normal to talk about here are COMPLETE hot topics on that website. You'll see it posted all over their Hot Topics forum. That the natural things when it comes to parenting are debatable, and elective c-sections and planned induction dates are far from unheard of. It's an everyday topic that no one thinks twice about on there, but someone who trusts their body and is truly educated about risks and benefits shake their head at these things and we're chastized for it.

 

Pumping is HARD! I did it a couple times and didn't get too much from one pumping session. I can only imagine doing it everyday and needing enough to last all day while one is at work.
 

 

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#305 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 10:12 AM
 
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Totally, I hope i didn't come across as judging the mothers for these things-  That's my issue, really, is that society as a whole is just making it harder and harder to have a healthy bfing relationship.  I try not to over-generalize, too, and I understand that there are valid, real reasons for formula-feeding.  Absolutely.  What I can't get behind, however, is when mothers are clearly just being selfish or lazy (and even admit as much).  Parenting is hard!  Didn't anyone tell them that?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkToMeNow View Post

I really don't like the idea of blaming women for a lot of these things... not breastfeeding, c-sections, etc. Many, many women are uneducated about their choices. Even if they try to educated themselves, they are likely doing it with very mainstream publications (think What to Expect), which do treat breastfeeding vs. formula feeding as a  lifestyle, convenience based decision. Also, there is a huge cultural/ community component to the decision to breastfeed. In some communities/ cultures, breastfeeding is seen as gross. That is an enormous hurdle for a woman to overcome, especially if she needs support with child care, etc. Younger mothers and mothers living in poverty are far less likely to breastfeed. 

 

___

 

Anyway, I'm off on a tangent. I know the original woman that sparked this topic is not living in the type of situation I am talking about. But I still think my point is important. Too often I think we see non-breastfeeding women as this uniform group of mothers not choosing what is best for their babies. I just think there is a lot more to it than that. 



 

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#306 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 10:16 AM
 
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I don't know if you'll ever try pumping again, but it does get much easier.  Your body gets used to it and starts producing more each time.  I found, also, that if I would pump one side while DS fed on the other that my let down was much heavier and I could get 8oz from one breast!  I had a huge supply, but if you start out early you can *often* train your body to overproduce so you have a store of milk.   Pumping without DS also feeding ALWAYS  yielded less- much much less.  Pumps are not babies and don't yield the same letdown.  Also, if I was working I would pump just once (after ~4-5 hours, when I would feel really engorged) rather tahn pumping every couple hours.  I yielded more when my body was almost desperate to get rid of it, you know?  There's also the mind over matter aspect- I knew there was milk in there, I wanted relief, and my body reacted accordingly.  When not so engorged (like when pumping every 2-3 hours) you just don't know if it is going to be effective, you stress about it, thus your body doesn't produce.  :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IwannaBanRN View Post




I agree. I used to be a part of What To Expect, and alot of the things that are normal to talk about here are COMPLETE hot topics on that website. You'll see it posted all over their Hot Topics forum. That the natural things when it comes to parenting are debatable, and elective c-sections and planned induction dates are far from unheard of. It's an everyday topic that no one thinks twice about on there, but someone who trusts their body and is truly educated about risks and benefits shake their head at these things and we're chastized for it.

 

Pumping is HARD! I did it a couple times and didn't get too much from one pumping session. I can only imagine doing it everyday and needing enough to last all day while one is at work.
 

 



 

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#307 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 10:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbk21 View Post


I don't know if you'll ever try pumping again, but it does get much easier.  Your body gets used to it and starts producing more each time.  I found, also, that if I would pump one side while DS fed on the other that my let down was much heavier and I could get 8oz from one breast!  I had a huge supply, but if you start out early you can *often* train your body to overproduce so you have a store of milk.   Pumping without DS also feeding ALWAYS  yielded less- much much less.  Pumps are not babies and don't yield the same letdown.  Also, if I was working I would pump just once (after ~4-5 hours, when I would feel really engorged) rather tahn pumping every couple hours.  I yielded more when my body was almost desperate to get rid of it, you know?  There's also the mind over matter aspect- I knew there was milk in there, I wanted relief, and my body reacted accordingly.  When not so engorged (like when pumping every 2-3 hours) you just don't know if it is going to be effective, you stress about it, thus your body doesn't produce.  :-)



 


I always had a huge supply myself, and couldn't be away for more than an hour without my boobs aching and being engorged. I had actually tried nursing right before I pumped so my milk would let down, but I don't think the pump had the right suction or something. Maybe I have special non-pump boobies. Sheepish.gif

 

And I have to tell you the WORST was when I was mistakenly arrested for a warrant that had already been paid for and I was in jail for 8 hours. I had to beg the guards for new pads because I'd leaked through mine, ALOT. Then, one of the gals that had been in there for months said that there was a lady in there once who had pumped with a pump they had there at the jail. By the time I finally got in the room to pump, my DH was there to pick me up. lol It was terrible.
 

 

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#308 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 10:47 AM
 
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Yes, this it true.  It really does help to start pumping in the beginning to keep your supply up.  Also, there are huge differences between pumps.  A good pump that fits your breast well should work pretty well.  I pumped twice a day for 9mo and donated the extra milk to a woman that couldn't breastfeed.   I would block feed on one breast and allow the other one to become super engorged.  Then I would pump the full breast and switch my nursing sides.  It worked well for me and I was able to get 12-14oz a day to donate.

 

I plan on donating milk again with this baby, but I'm going to decide for sure after the baby gets here.  If she's really high needs, etc I may not be able to dedicate myself to 2 pumping sessions a day.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbk21 View Post


I don't know if you'll ever try pumping again, but it does get much easier.  Your body gets used to it and starts producing more each time.  I found, also, that if I would pump one side while DS fed on the other that my let down was much heavier and I could get 8oz from one breast!  I had a huge supply, but if you start out early you can *often* train your body to overproduce so you have a store of milk.   Pumping without DS also feeding ALWAYS  yielded less- much much less.  Pumps are not babies and don't yield the same letdown.  Also, if I was working I would pump just once (after ~4-5 hours, when I would feel really engorged) rather tahn pumping every couple hours.  I yielded more when my body was almost desperate to get rid of it, you know?  There's also the mind over matter aspect- I knew there was milk in there, I wanted relief, and my body reacted accordingly.  When not so engorged (like when pumping every 2-3 hours) you just don't know if it is going to be effective, you stress about it, thus your body doesn't produce.  :-)



 



 


Abra, Married to George, Mother to DS 12/03 & DD1 08/09 & DD2 12/11.  We are planning our next adventure to South America in April 2014!
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#309 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 11:29 AM
 
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No, J, you didn't come off that way. I was just sharing my general opinion. And I totally agree about lazy parenting. I also agree that society needs to change. The same studies that show the groups that are least likely to breastfeed also show how much more likely women are to try when encouraged by their health care providers. We definitely need to start with the doctors and hospitals, especially the ones that provide care to low income women.

Amanda, mom to dsd (16), dd (11), dd (8), and ds (born 11/12/11).
 

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#310 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow!  This is quite the discussion going on!  Feel free to continue it here if that makes the most sense, but I made a September chit chat thread as it is SEPTEMBER ladies!!  Can you believe it?!

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1328108/the-one-thread-september-chit-chat


Mama to Avalon 1/07 waterbirth.jpg, Austin 1/10 in between uc.jpgand Avery 12/11  h20homebirth.gif
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#311 of 311 Old 09-01-2011, 12:01 PM
 
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Oh my!  It IS september!  ALMOST BABY-BIRTHING TIME, LADIES!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimee View Post

Wow!  This is quite the discussion going on!  Feel free to continue it here if that makes the most sense, but I made a September chit chat thread as it is SEPTEMBER ladies!!  Can you believe it?!

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1328108/the-one-thread-september-chit-chat



 

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