I'm just wondering if anyone has been through what we are (hopefully) about to go through. We have two girls, ages 3 and 1. We felt called to adopt an older child, and we have completed the state's required classes and the homestudy, and are now waiting for a match. There is a particular child we have inquired about. She is 15 years old. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with such a large age gap? I know it's usually the opposite, having older children and then adopting younger. But we are just so blessed and fortunate to be able to do this, and it's something we really feel we were meant to do. I also know that a teen comes with their own set of issues, and it will be a challenge to suddenly be the parents of a teen. Does anyone have any advice? Thanks in advance!
I haven't adopted an older child, but both of our kids have older siblings in other placements. The things I've noticed with them include: a MUCH longer "honeymoon" period, with the length depending on how long they've been in the system, major trust issues, more loyalty to the birth family, and identity issues (meaning they often question whether they fit in with "normal" kids, and tend to seek out the fringe, where they feel comfortable). It will almost certainly be challenging, but bless you for your initiative. Few people try. You have the opportunity to make a HUGE difference in a young person's life, and to be a determining factor in whether they make it or not. I would also caution you that love doesn't solve everything, but it is possible to teach older children to believe in themselves, and that their prior life experience was atypical and unfair, but should not define them.
I responded to your pm but I have been thinking more about this and I wanted to add something that is not specifically relevant to adopting an older child when you have younger ones but is relevant to adopting an older child, period.
If someone were to ask me what I think the biggest mistake I made during the first 6 months or first year after adopting my daughter (11 when she arrived, 13 now) is, I would tell them:
The biggest mistake I made was in not instituting clear and consistent consequences for undesirable behavior from the moment Desta set foot in our home. I took the approach of wanting her to learn to feel what was acceptable behavior and what wasn't and to want to behave well to please us. I think that this approach backfired and set us up for months of conflict and unhappiness in that Desta didn't really know what was expected, she was not quick in learning it, the rest of us suffered through bad, rude, and mean behavior, I spent several months not liking her because her behavior made life so difficult for me, and Desta didn't learn that we are in charge (which I think kids from unstable backgrounds NEED to learn).
I would have probably come about things backwards from how I actually did: teach her what behaviors are acceptable/unacceptable first, and then worry about helping her learn the whys.
I think that this is one place where the AP mindset failed me. I was so concerned about not punishing and not jeopardizing our attachment that I let our entire family (including Desta) suffer from her bad behavior, and when I finally got fed up with it and started insisting that she behave appropriately, she had the "but you always let me get away with this before" card to play. I think we spent at least a few months training her out of bad behavior we had trained her into by not nipping it in the bud in the first place.
Things started going A LOT more smoothly after Desta got grounded a few months ago.
Dharamamama - I am just learning that lesson as well with my new 7 year old. My general attitude with my bios is of gentle guiding, and they (generally!) go along, because they know they can trust me. But this little girl with a history of abuse and neglect has no particular reason to trust that I will be safe, that I have her best interest at heart. I think it would be even more so with a teen, who has more experience at independence, and possibly less at trust.
Originally Posted by dharmamama
The biggest mistake I made was in not instituting clear and consistent consequences for undesirable behavior from the moment Desta set foot in our home. I took the approach of wanting her to learn to feel what was acceptable behavior and what wasn't and to want to behave well to please us. I think that this approach backfired and set us up for months of conflict and unhappiness in that Desta didn't really know what was expected, she was not quick in learning it, the rest of us suffered through bad, rude, and mean behavior, I spent several months not liking her because her behavior made life so difficult for me, and Desta didn't learn that we are in charge (which I think kids from unstable backgrounds NEED to learn).
I think that this is one place where the AP mindset failed me. I was so concerned about not punishing and not jeopardizing our attachment that I let our entire family (including Desta) suffer from her bad behavior, and when I finally got fed up with it and started insisting that she behave appropriately, she had the "but you always let me get away with this before" card to play. I think we spent at least a few months training her out of bad behavior we had trained her into by not nipping it in the bud in the first place.
Things started going A LOT more smoothly after Desta got grounded a few months ago.
:
dm
Dharmamama,
I am so glad you are back with us
And, as always, you said what I wanted to say so much better than I could have.
My dd is only four months older that ds, but at two, even that change in birth order was huge. I think it ia very important to understand that when adopting an older child, they have the power to use younger children to get negative attention. My dd would do anything to get our attention, including torturing ds. We wanted so much to make her feel loved and welcomed and we did not want to punish her. That was bad for all of us, but especially bad for our son.
I haven't adopted an older child, but a good friend of mine did about a year ago. She has both older and younger children than the newly adopted child, some adopted and some bio. She has told me essentially the same thing that dharma said.
It is important for her to keep reminding herself that much of the same behavior that is driving the family crazy was actually extremely adaptive behavior in the child's former situation (orphanage). Her daughter needed to have a very clear understanding of what the house rules, responsibilities and consequences were before she could begin to function as a family member.
The biggest mistake I made was in not instituting clear and consistent consequences for undesirable behavior from the moment Desta set foot in our home. I took the approach of wanting her to learn to feel what was acceptable behavior and what wasn't and to want to behave well to please us. I think that this approach backfired and set us up for months of conflict and unhappiness in that Desta didn't really know what was expected, she was not quick in learning it, the rest of us suffered through bad, rude, and mean behavior, I spent several months not liking her because her behavior made life so difficult for me, and Desta didn't learn that we are in charge (which I think kids from unstable backgrounds NEED to learn).
I would have probably come about things backwards from how I actually did: teach her what behaviors are acceptable/unacceptable first, and then worry about helping her learn the whys.
I think that this is one place where the AP mindset failed me. I was so concerned about not punishing and not jeopardizing our attachment that I let our entire family (including Desta) suffer from her bad behavior, and when I finally got fed up with it and started insisting that she behave appropriately, she had the "but you always let me get away with this before" card to play. I think we spent at least a few months training her out of bad behavior we had trained her into by not nipping it in the bud in the first place.
excellent point === i was a foster mom .......... older kids, esp out og the system, are not like toddlers
An older child could be a danger to a younger child - physically, emtionally, or sexually.
An older child in foster care could be choronologically 15 BUT not emotionally 15. Its possible she is emtionally immature and your expectations may have to be adjusted bc she may not be as independant as you expect.
An older child may need just as much or more time with you as parents and supervision as your preschoolers. Personally, I think a teenager who is coming into a permanent placement after years in the system probably deserves undivided one on one attention that may be hard to fit in given the ages of the younger kids.
I think there is a reason that adopting out of birth order is advised against. I realize it works in some situations but not all and I would urge to seek out as many families who have done so and discuss the issues they faced so that you can be prepared.
We took a LOT of flack for setting up clear boundaries from the get-g with our older boys. And, I do mean a LOT of flack. We established rules from the day the children entered the home. We explained the rules ONCE, and after we had explained them, we held them to those rules. Gently yes, but also firmly. I think that advice is right on the mark.
Another consideration we took when adopting a much older child but we did with both of the boys even though the second adoption was not older than the others, was that we kept line of sight supervision initially. While ds#1 now shares a room with ds#2, he slept in our room for the first several months until we were sure he was safe to share a room with his brother. Ds#3 proved to be unsafe to share a room with his brothers and 2.5 years later we still have not re-attempted that one week failed experiment. New kiddos are not allowed to enter the bedrooms of their siblings. No doors are allowed to be closed without specific permission from mommy and only one child behind the closed door. New kids also start in mom and dad's room regardless of their age. It helps acclimate them to us as parents, helps us be there to meet their nighttime needs even if they aren't going to seek us out for those needs, and it helps us assess their needs and safety level for with their siblings. We'll be setting up a toddler bed in our room fore ds#4 before he comes home in January, despite having a bedroom we are hoping to integrate him into sharing with a sibling later.
Originally Posted by m9m9m9
An older child may need just as much or more time with you as parents and supervision as your preschoolers. Personally, I think a teenager who is coming into a permanent placement after years in the system probably deserves undivided one on one attention that may be hard to fit in given the ages of the younger kids.
Every family is different, but I agree with this.
I think it's unfair to bring a child into the family who will probably have VERY GREAT needs (for attention, for guidance, for meetings with teachers/counselors, for free time, for everything) when you have such young ones at home. From what I've read here and on other boards, adopting an older child is much more demanding than adopting a baby or even a toddler. With a 1 year old in the house, and a 3 year old just on the brink of so many childhood changes, I think you might be setting yourself and your children up for feelings of neglect and loss. I've heard that the year or so after bringing an older child into the family is a whirlwind...perhaps it would be better to wait until your children can handle a year with less attention and focus from you?
That being said, you know your family best, and you know more about this girl than any of us (obviously). Best of luck in your decision.
Originally Posted by waiflywaif
Don't most agencies recommend NOT adopting out of birth order?
Yes, very much so. There are always exceptions, though, and I think agencies *do* look for the special families that can adapt to the needs of older kids. There are so many older kids who need families...if adopting out of birth order was 'forbidden,' that would mean a lot of kids would never have the chance of having a family.
Adopting out of birth order is a riskier kind of adoption, though...which is why many agencies will have you read a ton, speak to other families, and get a lot of one-on-one time with a social worker before allowing it.
See, in our case, I'm just MUCH better working with older kids than babies and toddlers. I love my babies and toddlers. But, a child screaming incessantly who cannot understand what is going on eventually gets on my nerves. I struggled with colic twice and nearly lost my mind dealing with it. It was much easier to show a child where the bathroom was than start changing diapers. It was easier to dialog with a child and explain what was going on than it was to integrate my own newborns into the family.
I imensely enjoy having contact with my children before they can come home. I enjoy putting together care packages, preparing for their needs and being able to reason with these children. I cannot see myself ever intentionally pursuing a toddler or infant adoption, I really can't.
OTOH, ask me to set up a house for an older child, and I'm in nirvana. Ask me to address their issues physically, nutritionally, emotionally and spiritually and we're good to go. And years later, ds#1 and I still enjoy talking about that time as he came home. He barely remembers, but he loves that I hold those memories. And, even strange things like trying to convince a 7 yo why I needed his pee for lab testing and ultimately bribing him with Sprite are cool memories that we share. (Never could test his stools for parasites, that was just TOO personal in his opinion and we ended up assuming he had parasites and treating him anyway.)
I know a lot of families who feel they have a heart for older children do meet a lot of resistence in trying to adopt out of birth order and older children. But the truth is that none of our adoption agencies have EVER given us flack for our decision. I cannot say if that is because they were able to get to know us and realized we were prepared, or if its not as common in practice as its said to be. I do know that older children desperately need adoptive famlies. And, I personally never paint older child adoption with a general brush of 'never adopt out of birth order'. I think its too simplistic to say simply don't do it. I think you have to look at far more than just the ages of the children involved. All of our adoptions have been out of birth order in some capacity. We adopted #1 of 4, #4 of 5 and now #5 of 7. But, yes we have needed 1+ years for adjustment each time. This last adoption, we needed the full 2 years experts recommend before we felt this child was integrated fully into this family.
See, in our case, I'm just MUCH better working with older kids than babies and toddlers. I love my babies and toddlers. But, a child screaming incessantly who cannot understand what is going on eventually gets on my nerves. I struggled with colic twice and nearly lost my mind dealing with it. It was much easier to show a child where the bathroom was than start changing diapers. It was easier to dialog with a child and explain what was going on than it was to integrate my own newborns into the family.
I imensely enjoy having contact with my children before they can come home. I enjoy putting together care packages, preparing for their needs and being able to reason with these children. I cannot see myself ever intentionally pursuing a toddler or infant adoption, I really can't.
OTOH, ask me to set up a house for an older child, and I'm in nirvana. Ask me to address their issues physically, nutritionally, emotionally and spiritually and we're good to go. And years later, ds#1 and I still enjoy talking about that time as he came home. He barely remembers, but he loves that I hold those memories. And, even strange things like trying to convince a 7 yo why I needed his pee for lab testing and ultimately bribing him with Sprite are cool memories that we share. (Never could test his stools for parasites, that was just TOO personal in his opinion and we ended up assuming he had parasites and treating him anyway.)
I know a lot of families who feel they have a heart for older children do meet a lot of resistence in trying to adopt out of birth order and older children. But the truth is that none of our adoption agencies have EVER given us flack for our decision. I cannot say if that is because they were able to get to know us and realized we were prepared, or if its not as common in practice as its said to be. I do know that older children desperately need adoptive famlies. And, I personally never paint older child adoption with a general brush of 'never adopt out of birth order'. I think its too simplistic to say simply don't do it. I think you have to look at far more than just the ages of the children involved. All of our adoptions have been out of birth order in some capacity. We adopted #1 of 4, #4 of 5 and now #5 of 7. But, yes we have needed 1+ years for adjustment each time. This last adoption, we needed the full 2 years experts recommend before we felt this child was integrated fully into this family.
We fostered an 8 & 10yo when bs was 3-1/2yo and a 12yo when he was 4yo. Both the 8 & 12you hurt him. I honestly think the 8yo was unintentional. The 12yo was VERY intentional. He went back and forth between desperately wanting to be part of a loving family (and we absolutely treated him like one) and being resentful that it wasn't his own--but it WAS my son's own family. Honestly, I spent every. single. minute. having to watch that one. He wound up having to be removed. He simply couldn't get over it. It was an environment he wanted so badly and simultaneously resented so badly.
After that, we decided that it wasn't worth the risk. We're staying in birth order now. It puts us in the little ones mode for quite a while. If I can't cope with that, we'll simply wait until the kids are older.
Originally Posted by heatherdeg
We fostered an 8 & 10yo when bs was 3-1/2yo and a 12yo when he was 4yo. Both the 8 & 12you hurt him. I honestly think the 8yo was unintentional. The 12yo was VERY intentional. He went back and forth between desperately wanting to be part of a loving family (and we absolutely treated him like one) and being resentful that it wasn't his own--but it WAS my son's own family. Honestly, I spent every. single. minute. having to watch that one. He wound up having to be removed. He simply couldn't get over it. It was an environment he wanted so badly and simultaneously resented so badly.
After that, we decided that it wasn't worth the risk. We're staying in birth order now. It puts us in the little ones mode for quite a while. If I can't cope with that, we'll simply wait until the kids are older.
Oh my, this is an old thread! Funny how it was posted around this same time of year, though.
AngelBee, looks like you've bumped a couple threads on the topic of adopting teens. I'm sorry I either am having a memory problem or haven't read elsewhere, are you in process?
Except under some very extraordinary and specific circumstances, I personally would not choose to adopt an older one with young ones in the house. I may adopt older ones sometime down the road, but not until my kids are older themselves, maybe even adults. Part of that is just that fostering or adopting a teen is really, really, really intense work and in my experience, when we were fostering teens, when we were doing it well, that was really basically all we were doing. Of course, take what I say for what it is worth...our kids were with us in a therapeutic placement. There may be other teens for whom it could be more easily balanced. Even so, it would take a lot for me to feel comfortable with doing it. And I'm semi-"seasoned."
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