1 year old now drinking goat's milk but waking all night! - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 13 Old 05-26-2011, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi, I'm helpless of what is wrong...

 

We knew our baby had a cow's milk sensitivity when he showed reflux symptoms when we started formula at (unfortunately) 5 months.  We were feeding him Enfamil, but then switched to Enfamil Gentlease, and that seemed to work and he tolerated it quite well.  Two weeks before he was nearing his 1 year mark, we tried adding bits of whole milk in his bottles and saw a pile of poo diapers.  He got diarrhea instantly and practically every diaper was poo.  So I asked the pediatrician what to try after a year, and she suggested rice, soy, or goat's milk.  We went with goat's milk, reading that it has the necessary fats to keep them happy.  But now, a month later, he hates the taste of formula and we're full on goat's milk.  He seems fine during the day and drinks goat's milk or water out of a sippy.  But the problem is at night- he wakes up 3-4 times seeming hungry despite how much we feed him (solids) during the day.  My husband has been warming goat's milk in a bottle every time he wakes up and the baby will cry or scream after, like he's guzzled the milk too fast or has a stomachache. 

 

I need advice of what to do at night when he wakes up seeming hungry.  I've tried rocking him back to sleep but he pushes against me in frustration.  My husband and I are frustrated with eachother, our baby is frustrated and irritable during the day, and our 3.5 year old can't stand sleeping in the same room as him.  Should we give him formula at night again, or make a warm water bottle? Gripe water? What do I do?

 

Thanks for any suggestions!

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#2 of 13 Old 05-26-2011, 12:56 PM
 
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sweetie, it sounds like your baby does not like the goats milk.

have you tried similac? my baby and i love the awesome combination of soy milk and cows milk.

my baby was small at birth and yet he very easily adapted to the easy to mix with filtered water similac. just the standard type with the blue label. he was always very content and seemed to really enjoy and he always gained weight steadily from it. i really hope it works. i wish you the best.

if you have time i'd be glad to hear from you again. my name's anna

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#3 of 13 Old 05-26-2011, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you very much for your advice and time in answering! It's weird, because he'll drink at least 2 sippys worth of goat's milk during the day and be happy as a clam.  I don't really want to get back to buying formula, so I'm looking for some other solution other than formula that will be the solution to his nighttime fussiness...

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#4 of 13 Old 05-26-2011, 04:41 PM
 
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I dropped in because i saw this post on the forum list.  My son also seems to be sensitive to cow's milk, which is too bad because he loves both milk and cheese.  I recently bought some goat's milk because I couldn't find any other milk substitutes that seemed like they've have the right fat/protein contents for a 18-month-old.  But on the three days we gave him the goat's milk, he slept terribly at night. He was up probably every 2 hours all 3 nights.  The three nights were over the course of a week and maybe we just randomly had bad nights, but I'm afraid it might've been the goat's milk.  Now I don't know what to give him. 


Erin, mom to DD (1/06) and DS (10/09)
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#5 of 13 Old 05-26-2011, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I guess technically babies don't require other mammal's milk after they are a year old... (unless you're still breastfeeding, then it's greeeat n' such...) but I don't see how anything but milk at night would get him back to sleep!  We've tried a bit of rice milk, which I hear has no crazy side effects in older babies except that it is devoid of many fats and nutrients.  I read that if you do go with rice milk, to be sure to get some yogurt or cottage cheese or other fats that your baby can handle.  

 

I know it's so stinking frustrating- our pediatrician doesn't even have a clear answer for us (hence this post) so it's like we're finding out what his belly will handle by trial and error...

 

Hope this helps a bit, eh? :)

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#6 of 13 Old 05-26-2011, 06:56 PM
 
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Sounds like your child is sensitive to goats milk as well as cows milk.  Waking up screaming at night is a huge symptom for our DS.  I am about to trial goats milk, as he is also sensitive to soy milk and the other milks are inferior, but I suspect he might not be able to tolerate it either.  Soy is a good alternitive if he can have it, but there is the whole estrogen issue with that too, so do your research.

 

Another alternitive I wanted to mention was EO28 splash.  Its a "formula" in the sense that it is a complete food (meaning you can live on it alone) and comes in a juice box and in fruit flavors.  Its made for very allergic children, or children with GI issues.  It is pretty expensive, but I wanted to throw it out there as an option/replacement for milk.

 

 

We are going to use it if our son likes it because he is a food refuser and this product can help in all areas if he refuses to eat.


Hayley, exclusively pumping (eliminating dairy and soy) 2 years now! Proud mommy to:Owyn 2/8/03 and Dominic 10/16/08 (GERD, SPD, pediatric feeding disorder, eczema) # 3 EDD 07/13/11
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#7 of 13 Old 05-26-2011, 08:56 PM
 
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You've gotten some good comments. Thanks so much Dom&O for the EO28 Splash info. I had never heard of it. There are more and more options all the time. 

 

Jen, if your baby reacts to cow's milk, you might not want to give him cottage cheese or yogurt, as you suggested. The milk proteins --- the part of milk that babies are allergic to --- are only partially pre-digested in Enfamil Gentlease. If your son tolerated this, then he might be OK with predigested proteins in cheeses and yogurts (the bacteria partially digest the proteins), but likely not. It IS likely that he's reacting to the goat's milk. His reactions may have evolved into a reflux reaction, which is most uncomfortable when lying down. Eating or drinking more of anything, often helps wash the acid out of the throat. This is why he may be acting hungry. Even if that food causes problems later, it may bring immediate relief.  

 

I understand he still wants to fall asleep the way that babies are meant to sleep, sucking on nourishing liquid. Going back to the formula he did well on is an option I'd lean toward in some cases but maybe here you'll want to wait. Firstly because you said he doesn't want it now anyway. Secondly, I think you'll really want to pin down whether his fussiness is related to consuming milk proteins or not. I think your best bet is to go for zero cow's, goat's, or other milk proteins for a little while and see if his symptoms improve. If not, then something different is going on and you'll want to write back here for some more brainstorming. Read ingredients in everything he's given and avoid whey, casein, cream, butter, cheese, etc.

 

The EO28 mentioned sounds good. There are some other medical foods that are options as well. There are also amino acid formulas that have no traces of allergenic milk proteins: Nutrimigen AA and Enfamil AA are two of them. All of these choices are likely costly and difficult to obtain, but may be simpler than making your own concoctions. It's up to you. Of the alternate "milk" products, you are right that Rice milk has little more than sugar, water, and the nutrients they add, which are good nutrients, but it's not complete nutrition. Soy milk offers the most nutrition of the options. While I'd have concern about a 100% soy diet for a newborn, there are many large studies on those who were raised on soy from birth, following up on them for several decades now, with only very tiny differences found in these children and those who received cow's milk formulas. Neither cow's nor goat's milk are complete nutrition either. The idea is that once a child is consuming other foods, they then get different nutrition from different foods. If it's not breastmilk or formula, their "white liquid" food should not be more than 12 ounces or so per day, to leave room for other nutrients. 

 

So, for a short trial, you could go ahead and try rice milk, hemp milk, which has good fats, or another, just to see if your son improves. More nutritious options that you will want to use if he's clearly better without milk proteins, can be made in your kitchen. You can boil an organic chicken for most of the day and then dilute and use the nutritious broth, with a bit of apple juice in it. Baby food peas and some other baby foods can be added to rice milk, to increase its nutrition. There are rice protein products in the healthfood stores with a full spectrum of vitamins and minerals added, such as "All-One" Milk Free Rice Based protein powder with vitamins and minerals. (Watch out with that product though. They had another rice-based one that used calcium casienate -- milk protein. Hopefully they stopped doing that.) Spiru-teen is a good soy-based product, if you want to try soy. Get something that says milk-free. All of these suggestions, besides the formulas, are only for babies that are consuming other foods. You are right that some of these options are low in fat. It may be easier to attain fats in other parts of their diets, as sometimes oils added to a bottle only stick to the walls. Cod liver oil is one option.


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#8 of 13 Old 06-13-2011, 10:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lfpalmer View Post

Soy milk offers the most nutrition of the options. While I'd have concern about a 100% soy diet for a newborn, there are many large studies on those who were raised on soy from birth, following up on them for several decades now, with only very tiny differences found in these children and those who received cow's milk formulas. Neither cow's nor goat's milk are complete nutrition either. The idea is that once a child is consuming other foods, they then get different nutrition from different foods. If it's not breastmilk or formula, their "white liquid" food should not be more than 12 ounces or so per day, to leave room for other nutrients.



Linda, can you point me to some of the long-term studies about people who had lots of soy as kids? I admit I haven't done much research into it, but I've been wary about giving soy milk to my son.  I've always had the suspicion that soy is a common food for kids in areas like Asia, where most people are milk intolerant, but then on the other hand, I've read cautions about soy due to the estrogen issue.  He nurses plenty and doesn't "need" milk, but he sure does want it when he sees everyone else in the family drinking it.  He also isn't much of an eater so if he's going to be having "milk" I'd rather give him something nutritious than an empty food like rice milk.


Erin, mom to DD (1/06) and DS (10/09)
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#9 of 13 Old 06-15-2011, 08:57 PM
 
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Yes, I'll dig up and send some links to studies on heavy soy exposure in infants. I have to say that all the hype on the web about soy is in theory --- theories about the anti-nutrients (which are also in wheat) --- theories about estrogenics (which are also in flax but possibly weaker form) --- theories about thyroids, etc etc. Personally I'm more interested in outcomes --- morbidity and mortality outcomes from prospective & retrospective dietary and epigenetic studies. Bottom lines for adults:  Those with touchy thyroids may be either helped or hindered by soy usage. It's best for those with thyroid challenges or concerns to either maintain regular doses of soy, as opposed to very up and down usage, or avoid it. Cancers: There are an abundance of studies showing all kinds of cancer reductions, especially reproductive organ studies. There are suggestions in studies of slight increases in thyroid cancers but these are the most treatable and survivable and rare. The life savings from cancer preventions would far far outweigh. Again, if one has thyroid issues or symptoms, see if soy usage improves symptoms and otherwise avoid it. Menopause: Helps some, not others. Nutrition: Reduced bone fractures, reduced heart disease. I see no signs of sufferage from these "anti-nutrients" complained of. Of course no one food should be used as a major portion of one's diet, unless it's breastmilk anyway.

 

OK, studies about infant consumption to come.


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#10 of 13 Old 06-15-2011, 09:19 PM
 
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Here's one:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Exposure%20to%20Soy-Based%20Formula%20in%20Infancy%20and%20Endocrinological%20

 

They studied 248 adults who were fed soy formula as infants and 563 were fed cow milk formula. It's appropriate to compare the soy formula fed to milk formula fed because any formula causes increases in many illnesses and indicators so it would not be fair to compare it to breastmilk. The only difference they could find was that soy-fed female adults have 1/3rd longer day of menstruation. So yes, this suggests that there could be effects, as all suspect, but such a slight effect when soy is 100% of diet from birth would suggest that a serving per day in an older child would have no negative effects. Remember that huge doses of broccoli and all kinds of things will bring out odd findings but that doesn't mean there's any benefit in avoiding them entirely.

 

An author and the nutrition unit have received funds from various formula companies but who else is going to pay for such a study? It looks like a well-designed study and there are plenty others. If any big difference could be found from so many thousands of babies receiving such high doses of soy from birth, it would have been found by today. 


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#11 of 13 Old 06-15-2011, 09:47 PM
 
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This one done on monkey twins:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Infant%20feeding%20with%20soy%20formula%20milk%3A%20effects%20on%20puberty%20progression   

 

I'm giving links to abstracts while I'm reviewing full-texts.

 

"CONCLUSIONS: Infant feeding with SFM has no gross adverse reproductive effects in male marmosets, though it alters testis size and cell composition, and there is consistent, if indirect, evidence for possible ‘compensated Leydig cell failure.’ "      "This study was funded solely by the UK Medical Research Council."

 

All kinds of indicators are measured in these studies, with most all being normal.

 

 

Human study, looking just for one indicator: Does this link work for y'all?? http://tinyurl.com/42e652t  (from Ovid)

Soy Formula and Breast Cancer Risk

Boucher, Beatrice A.et al., .Epidemiology  Issue: Volume 19(1), January 2008, pp 165-166

 

"Feeding only soy formula during the first 4 months was associated with [60%] reduced odds of breast cancer. The odds associated with soy formula during months 5–12 were also reduced [by 40%]. However, both of these estimates lacked precision."

 


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#12 of 13 Old 06-26-2011, 05:45 PM
 
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Linda, thanks so much!  Those are really interesting. I'll have to read them over again more closely when I get a few minutes to myself.  And no, I can't get that last link to work (at least not without a login).  My concerns have mostly been about the hormone content of soy -- and how it might affect the body.

 

 


Erin, mom to DD (1/06) and DS (10/09)
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#13 of 13 Old 07-09-2011, 03:25 PM
 
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