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#1 of 10 Old 05-23-2009, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This may have been posted before, but apparently, beginning in 2015, new CNM's will need to have their Doctorate to be a licensed CNM. This really messes with the plans I had all mapped out for my future career. That's a lot of school and a lot money.
How do you think this will effect peoples decisions on becoming a CNM?
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#2 of 10 Old 05-23-2009, 02:10 AM
 
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That would be an MD? Yes, that's pretty big. So what, then, is to be the difference between a CNM and an MD? Or is that the point?

I thought the regs were state-by-state. ?
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#3 of 10 Old 05-23-2009, 08:26 AM
 
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Wow that's a big deal.

I wonder what that'll do to the future of CNM-midwives?
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#4 of 10 Old 05-23-2009, 10:03 AM
 
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A doctorate is a PhD not a MD (Medical degree).

The future will be in licensed midwives.

In NY State the CNM are chained to OB's and ACOG.
There is a bill before our state legislature to change the way licensed and CNM currently practice (currently they have to get written agreement ("permission" psychological under the thumb of an OB to work legally). This is not to work in practice with a OB, just a ridiculous written permission slip to work legally as a midwife . So an OB essentially gives permission to the working life of midwives.

The whole thing is a mess and stinks! I understand why many midwives would outside the whole messy system even if they had an inclination to be "legal".

Correct me if I'm wrong, i believe the ACNM thinking goes if CNM have a higher degree of education, PhD they could finally be independent from the chains of ob's and ACOG's dismissal of the midwifery profession.

It stinks!
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#5 of 10 Old 05-23-2009, 12:07 PM
 
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They are not talking about a Ph.D. They are talking about a DNP and this is not yet set in stone. The desire for all advanced practice nurses (so NPs, nurse-anesthetists, --> not just nurse-midwives) to have a DNP is being pushed by the American Association of Colleges of Nursing and the Council on Collegiate Nursing Education.

It should be said that ACNM has written, in a formal position statement, that they do not agree that nurse-midwives should be required to have a DNP. Whether or not they will be able to sway opinions in other organizations is another story entirely.

Regardless, there is pretty much a consensus that if you become a CNM through an MSN degree or a post-grad certificate before 2015 you will be "grandfathered" in.

I am starting a master's nurse-midwife program this fall and I am not concerned. Frankly, many DNP programs are identical to the MSN programs that are out there.

I plan on having my own practice and not accepting most insurances so I can afford to not really be concerned. However, I realize that my plans could change and if I end up working in a hospital or in someone else's practice then there are things to think about:

- Will the MSN-trained midwives be 'second class' to DNP-trained midwives?
- Will this result in a pay differential? Similarly, will there be a difference in reimbursement?
- Will this impact the employability of MSN-trained midwives? (is that a word? )

I don't know what path you were planning to take for your CNM. But, if the DNP replaces the MSN, then instead of applying to MSN programs, you'll just be applying to DNP programs.
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#6 of 10 Old 05-23-2009, 12:22 PM
 
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No, this is not true. There is a proposal out there that all advanced practice nurses (NPs, CNMs, CRNAs, etc) have a doctorate in nursing practice (DNP) in order to practice. Nothing is set in stone. ACNM has no plans to require it at this time - http://www.midwife.org/siteFiles/pos...d_DNP_6_07.pdf .

What the DNP is is an attempt by NURSING to raise its level of education but as there are still CNM programs that are not based in schools of nursing, it's complicated. And then what do you do with the CM programs? The nurse anesthetists are not going along with this proposal either. It may happen eventually, but not in the next 5 years.

So what I see happening in the next 5 years is more schools OFFERING DNP programs, but no requirement.

And as a side note - there were huge changes made in certification requirements and CME requirements in just the last few weeks, and nowhere was the DNP even mentioned.
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#7 of 10 Old 05-23-2009, 10:54 PM
 
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I'm wondering how practical this is to implement. There aren't that many doctoral-trained nurses out there -- if all of the NPs have to go back to school for DNPs, who will teach them? Schools have a hard time recruiting enough masters-prepared nurses to train undergrads.

Stacia -- intrepid mama, midwife, and doula. Changing the world one 'zine at a time.
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#8 of 10 Old 05-23-2009, 11:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defenestrator View Post
I'm wondering how practical this is to implement. There aren't that many doctoral-trained nurses out there -- if all of the NPs have to go back to school for DNPs, who will teach them? Schools have a hard time recruiting enough masters-prepared nurses to train undergrads.
NPs will not have to go back to school for DNPs. If they want to get it, then they can. But, it will no be a requirement. They will be grandfathered in so that their certification stands valid.

The change will be gradual. They will likely be taught by people who already have DNPs and also Ph.Ds.
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#9 of 10 Old 05-24-2009, 01:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The article I read stated that it was proposed in 2004 and the "phase-in date is 2015"

"Then, in 2004, the American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) recommended that all nurses seeking to be credentialed as nurse practitioners earn a DNP degree.2The phase-in date is 2015. The National Organization of Nurse Practitioner Faculties (NONPF) endorsed this recommendation, and other nursing organizations agreed that it should be an option. This degree requirement has caused much concern, discussion and even conflict within the NP community."

"In the future, nurses will prepare for the NP profession by entering a 3-year doctoral program (part-time status may require more than 3 years of study). Each DNP program will contain a minimum of 1,000 clinical hours, and graduates will complete a 1-year residency to become NPs. The DNP will also be the educational requirement for certification in the three other advanced practice nursing roles: nurse midwife, nurse anesthetist and clinical nurse specialist."

Sooo.... am I reading something wrong or reading into this too much? Sorry, it's late and I'm home from a very loooong day and have little brain function! I'm hoping I can still become a CNM w/out gettting a Doctorate, as I have no desire to move in fast forward the next few years, nor do I wish to get a Doctorate.
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#10 of 10 Old 05-24-2009, 01:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, and I also read that ACNM has proposed OR is supporting the idea of a Doctorate of Midwifery as an alternative to the DNP w/ Midwifery as a speciality.
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