dangers of homebirth news piece - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 25 Old 08-15-2011, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
babygirlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I just thought people here would want to add their opinion to this article.

 

http://www.katu.com/news/local/127689363.html#idc-cover

 

It's about a woman who's child died at a homebirth and I feel, while it is sad, does not convey the majority of experiences and worries me even that people will assume the worst if you choose a homebirth.

 

This woman made a conscious decision to homebirth and then claims she didn't know the dangers and therefore it's the midwives fault

 

babygirlie is offline  
#2 of 25 Old 08-15-2011, 03:25 PM
 
kathrineg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

If the midwives didn't know how to resuscitate an infant to the point that they were arguing about it, then they should never have been attending births in the first place. That is not a risk of homebirth, that is negligence and a complete lack of adequate training. I highly doubt they told her "we have no idea how to preform basic life-saving procedures for your child".

kathrineg is offline  
#3 of 25 Old 08-16-2011, 07:57 AM
 
Jane93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

You know -- actually ousting incompetent and dangerous practioners is good for a profession not bad for it. 

 

It is pretty clear that these midwives (who per other sources allegedly let this women labor for 8 days, didn't take her in to the hospital despite mec. stained waters and didn't even have an aspirator in their equipment bags) are not the sort who the "movement" should be defending.

onlyboys, Kanna, Kamiro and 1 others like this.
Jane93 is offline  
#4 of 25 Old 08-17-2011, 07:46 AM
 
RachaelsMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I hate stories like these, where the mothers don't bother to do their homework and look into the midwife's qualifications before hiring them. Then, instead of accepting their role in their child's death, they want to pass laws that take away MY right to choose an unlicensed midwife.

Lynsahm and isabchi like this.

Erin~ Mommy to 3 curly-headed children and expecting #4 in December. ***4***8***12**16***20***24***28***32***36***40**
RachaelsMommy is offline  
#5 of 25 Old 08-17-2011, 07:55 AM
 
kathrineg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

How do you know she didn't do research/homework? It's not like midwives advertise that they don't understand basic emergency care. What would you have done differently?

Kanna likes this.
kathrineg is offline  
#6 of 25 Old 08-17-2011, 08:14 AM
 
philomom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 9,430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Oregon law if pitifully lax on midwifery. I'm surprised we don't see more like this.
philomom is online now  
#7 of 25 Old 08-17-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Jane93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Rachael'sMommy --

 

You do realize that there is nothing requiring any unlicensed midwife you interview to tell you the truth about her morbidities/mortalities/experience/training/education or even if she has any criminal charges against her?  What is a mother to be to go on in such circumstances -- rumor?

 

Besides -- everyone's supposed to "trust birth" anyway, right?  So the fault is never the midwife's, only the mother's no matter what the midwife might do (or not do)...

Kanna likes this.
Jane93 is offline  
#8 of 25 Old 08-21-2011, 11:36 AM
 
Sijae's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

 

You really shouldn't believe everything you read.  Whenever you know the real story you realize how inaccurate and full of lies "news" really is.


mom to 3 home-born children, wife to a great guy joy.gif

Sijae is offline  
#9 of 25 Old 08-26-2011, 09:34 PM
 
Beccadoula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Juneau, Alaksa
Posts: 556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I haven't read the article.  But, I would like to point out that babies die in the hospital all the time and it doesn't make the news at all...

isabchi and Kamiro like this.

Wife to Mark, Momma to Matt & Bryan : Joe & Jonathan - Labor Doula
Beccadoula is offline  
#10 of 25 Old 08-27-2011, 09:48 PM
 
Kanna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beccadoula View Post

I haven't read the article.  But, I would like to point out that babies die in the hospital all the time and it doesn't make the news at all...



You wouldn't happen to have some statistics / studies / further information on that "babies die in the hospital" claim? And more details? Like what they die of? Under which circumstances?

If so, it'd be nice to integrate that kind of information into the current discussion  ^_^


fly-by-nursing1.giffamilybed1.gifteapot2.GIFfemalesling.GIFfuzmalesling.giflearning.gifgeek.gif

Kanna is offline  
#11 of 25 Old 08-27-2011, 09:50 PM
 
Kanna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sijae View Post

 

You really shouldn't believe everything you read.  Whenever you know the real story you realize how inaccurate and full of lies "news" really is.



Actually, people have been following the events on the mom's and the midwives facebook accounts and the dad and a few friends of the family were posting to an article on registerguard. Most of it has been deleted since, but I got to read some of it beforehand and the article seems to be pretty much spot on.


fly-by-nursing1.giffamilybed1.gifteapot2.GIFfemalesling.GIFfuzmalesling.giflearning.gifgeek.gif

Kanna is offline  
#12 of 25 Old 08-27-2011, 11:05 PM
 
cinderella08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

http://www.10centimeters.com/friday-fallacy-babies-die-in-the-hospital-too/

 

 

 

Yeah, babies die in hospitals too

Mama2Kayla likes this.

hippie.gif Hi, I'm Amber

Ava {12.20.08}  Levi {8.19.10}  Aspen  {EDD 7.21.13}

cinderella08 is offline  
#13 of 25 Old 08-28-2011, 09:59 AM
 
rajahkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Add my opinion? It's hard to say without having been there what really happened. Some things sound exaggerated, which I would expect with the emotional trauma involved.

I think it speaks volumes about the damage hostility between midwives and hospitals can cause. Avoiding transfer due to fear of mistreatment by hospital staff either because you're a home birth mom or a midwife is obviously dangerous. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it does make me think about it.
isabchi likes this.

treehugger.gif Kat- mama to 6 little trees
rajahkat is offline  
#14 of 25 Old 08-28-2011, 01:29 PM
 
Annie Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,150
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I think licensing requirements are a good idea, personally. It sounds like the issue here was someone saying they were qualified to do something they didn't entirely understand (and that's a generous way of saying it). As far as hospital deaths never making the news, they can if there was some serious mistake alleged & a lawsuit has been filed, as in the case of these midwives. For example:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/08/16/bc-victoria-newborn-death-anesthesiologists.html

 

It surprises me, actually, that there are no set standards and educational requirements throughout the United States, or even state to state. Birth can be risky.

Annie Mac is offline  
#15 of 25 Old 08-28-2011, 03:00 PM
 
joycnm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

This reminds me of women who go to their local hospital to have their baby without doing any research beforehand.  They wind up being coerced into a c-section and have PTSD and THEN do their research.  "I didn't know this hospital had a 46 % c-section rate."  Then for their NEXT baby, they research and find the right fit for them.  Until all our care-providers in the US are properly trained (doctors and midwives) the woman must do some amount of research and take on some amount of responsibility.  Oh, and for those that are dubious that babies still die in hospitals should know that the US ranks something like 27 in the entire world for neonatal mortaility--that means 26 other countries have LESS babies die in the neonatal period than in the US.  Since 95 % of all babies in the US are born in the hospital, it stands to reason that a LOT of babies still die who were born in the hospital.

Turquesa likes this.
joycnm is offline  
#16 of 25 Old 08-28-2011, 03:26 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,058
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by cinderella08 View Post

http://www.10centimeters.com/friday-fallacy-babies-die-in-the-hospital-too/

 

 

 

Yeah, babies die in hospitals too


Meh.  shrug.gifIt's already been addressed ad nauseum, both on MDC and elsewhere, how there are countless pitfalls of relying on CDC Wonder to bolster the anti-homebirth cause. 

 

 

 


In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#17 of 25 Old 08-28-2011, 04:40 PM
 
Mama2Kayla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 726
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by joycnm View Post

Oh, and for those that are dubious that babies still die in hospitals should know that the US ranks something like 27 in the entire world for neonatal mortaility--that means 26 other countries have LESS babies die in the neonatal period than in the US.  Since 95 % of all babies in the US are born in the hospital, it stands to reason that a LOT of babies still die who were born in the hospital.



Do you have a link for this?

 


Meghan : Kayla~ 10/19/04 Jack~ 5/27/07
Evelyn~ 10/9/10

Mama2Kayla is offline  
#18 of 25 Old 08-28-2011, 06:46 PM
 
Viola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nevada
Posts: 23,377
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by kathrineg View Post

How do you know she didn't do research/homework? It's not like midwives advertise that they don't understand basic emergency care. What would you have done differently?



I think asking basic questions about what they do in emergency cases.  I knew my midwife had pitocin and methergine, and carried oxygen to every birth and knew how to perform infant CPR.  I asked her about transfer rates, why she transfers, what would happen in event of a transfer, etc.   Now you could argue that I only knew what she told me, but I think if someone is choosing a homebirth and then says, "I didn't know things could go wrong?" there is a disconnect there.  Of course no one really thinks their baby will die, just like no one thinks they'll be the one to die in a car accident, but the fact is that babies and mothers still die in childbirth.  I'm sure the two teachers in NJ didn't think they would both die of c-sections 2 weeks apart from one another, but it happened.  

 

I feel like we don't talk about the risks of things related to childbirth, whether in the hospital or out of it, and women will find out after the fact that there are risks associated with certain procedures and activities related to childbirth.

Kamiro likes this.
Viola is offline  
#19 of 25 Old 08-29-2011, 09:39 AM
 
joycnm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Sorry, I was wrong.  US ranks 30th, behind 29 other nations as of 2005.  http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db23.htm

joycnm is offline  
#20 of 25 Old 08-29-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,058
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)

To be fair, in the homebirth safety context, we need to consider neonatal mortality instead of infant mortality. 


In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#21 of 25 Old 08-29-2011, 02:43 PM
 
Mama2Kayla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 726
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

To be fair, in the homebirth safety context, we need to consider neonatal mortality instead of infant mortality. 



Exactly. Infant mortality is a measure of deaths up to 1yr of age. That's ot very accurate when you're talking about birth related deaths.

 


Meghan : Kayla~ 10/19/04 Jack~ 5/27/07
Evelyn~ 10/9/10

Mama2Kayla is offline  
#22 of 25 Old 08-31-2011, 12:38 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,058
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)


OK, but....that said, neonatal mortality (first 28 days after birth) is abysmal in the U.S.:

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20099732-10391704.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44333054/ns/health-childrens_health/?ocid=twitter#.Tl6PG10mzTo

 

(Edited to add the second link).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama2Kayla View Post





Exactly. Infant mortality is a measure of deaths up to 1yr of age. That's ot very accurate when you're talking about birth related deaths.

 



 


In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#23 of 25 Old 09-01-2011, 07:34 AM
 
Vancouver Mommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I don't have statistics either, but I know in a study conducted in British Columbia homebirth in  uncomplicated pregnancies was found to be no riskier than hospital birth. The report could probably be found on the BC College of Midwives website. I know that Norway has research with similar findings. Of course, in BC we have fully trained and lisenced midwives that have full hospital priviliges and seem to work well (in most cases) with the medical community. Midwifery care is also fully covered by provincial health insurance.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanna View Post





You wouldn't happen to have some statistics / studies / further information on that "babies die in the hospital" claim? And more details? Like what they die of? Under which circumstances?

If so, it'd be nice to integrate that kind of information into the current discussion  ^_^



 


Diane, SAHM to DD (June 05) and DS (April 07).
::::
Vancouver Mommy is offline  
#24 of 25 Old 09-05-2011, 08:36 AM
 
Lynsahm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Here is the link to the study with accurate homebirth statistics. 

 

http://www.bmj.com/content/330/7505/1416.full

 

My google button is not broken. superhero.gif


nak.gifLyn  ~~  Doula, Midwifery student homebirth.jpg, blended family mom of 6 grouphug.gif, grandma of 1, and wife of an amazing & generous man love.gif
Lynsahm is offline  
#25 of 25 Old 09-05-2011, 10:52 AM
 
Kanna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

The study was done in 2000, so 11 years ago. You wouldn't happen to know if there's a more recent one around too?

 

Especially since in the intrapartum and neonatal mortality was 1.7 deaths per 1000 planned home births....which is, as far as I'm aware, quite a bit higher than current rates for mortality at the hospital.


fly-by-nursing1.giffamilybed1.gifteapot2.GIFfemalesling.GIFfuzmalesling.giflearning.gifgeek.gif

Kanna is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off