Are Obstetricians considered "Birth Professionals"--I don't see a forum here! - Mothering Forums

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Old 03-25-2012, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are we outlawed?  Are our opinions invalid? 
Are we ALL driven by greed, and sadistic personalities, and would never think of trying to give a birth experience she remembers fondly?

 

Just asking?

 

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Old 03-25-2012, 04:11 PM
 
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I agree. Would love to see ALL birth professionals represented here. After all, don't we support all birth choices, whether home or hospital?

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Old 03-25-2012, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I really think the only birth choice supported here is HOME birth---any woman who CHOOSES to see an OB is ridiculed and it is implied she is not intelligent enough to make a good decision!

 

Thank you for support----I think only hope of change is with COMMUNICATION---not happening here so far!

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Old 03-25-2012, 04:48 PM
 
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I have to admit that when I had a c-section I was dismayed to learn that there wasn't a c-section board.  We were allowed to have a support thread but MDC didn't want to have a board.  I think it's changed now that there are so many c-section mamas.

 

 


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Old 03-25-2012, 04:54 PM
 
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An issue here is that in real life, for many women here on mdc, this is quite often (not always) the other way around:

 

Quote:
I really think the only birth choice supported here is HOME birth---any woman who CHOOSES to see an OB is ridiculed and it is implied she is not intelligent enough to make a good decision!

For women choosing alternative options - that we are not intelligent enough to make the right decision (hospital/obgyn)... we are trying to be "matryrs" or "win awards" or are being selfish or misinformed wanna-be birth goddesses. 

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Old 03-25-2012, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I guess the word "good" can be misread---I mean that she making a decision is good --not that ho birth is bad and hospital is good---but it is more than implied here on MDC that her decision to have a hospital birth is not perceived of as good in the eyes of the home birth community.  The very thing you dislike about the medical community--you actually do yourselves!

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Old 03-25-2012, 05:08 PM
 
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Well, I just recently found out I am pregnant and I'll be going to my OB GYN just to see how things are due to a past surgery for ovarian cysts. I have always found my OB GYN's to be great in terms of giving me great, practical advice and healthcare.

 

From what I have read, most women here prefer natural birth and that is what I prefer too, yet I am looking at having a combination of using an OB GYN and a midwife - I feel like my OB GYN needs to be on the same page with every major event that can affect my health especially since I'll likely be seeing the same person for my womanly needs after my child is born. From my reading, a lot of woman have had unnecessary medical intervention (induction, pain meds, restricting movement) which made their labor and birth harder than it should have been.

 

But that is just my opinion. I have never had a negative experience with an OB GYN just for my basic woman health, actually, the two I have had have gone above and beyond with comfort and care.


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Old 03-25-2012, 05:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

An issue here is that in real life, for many women here on mdc, this is quite often (not always) the other way around:

 

For women choosing alternative options - that we are not intelligent enough to make the right decision (hospital/obgyn)... we are trying to be "matryrs" or "win awards" or are being selfish or misinformed wanna-be birth goddesses. 



Then I think the best thing to do would be to support women in all safe birthing options, from HB to Maternal Request CS, instead of just supporting the opposite of "mainstream". At least, that's how it seems to me.

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Old 03-25-2012, 05:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by obdoc View Post

I guess the word "good" can be misread---I mean that she making a decision is good --not that ho birth is bad and hospital is good---but it is more than implied here on MDC that her decision to have a hospital birth is not perceived of as good in the eyes of the home birth community.  The very thing you dislike about the medical community--you actually do yourselves!

There are plenty of women around here who hospital birth. But most of them won't really be found in the "homebirth" or "uc" forums though. Things can get touchy there. 
 

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Old 03-25-2012, 05:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Poogles0213 

Then I think the best thing to do would be to support women in all safe birthing options, from HB to Maternal Request CS, instead of just supporting the opposite of "mainstream". At least, that's how it seems to me.


I come here because mdc has forums for some options not found other places. I don't care what other women decide to do for their births, and honestly, I have stated here before, that women should have full range of options - elective c/s, hospital, hb, uc, whatever. I want to be respected in my decision so I try to respect the decision of others.

 

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Old 03-25-2012, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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so--we are in agreement----not to exclude women who choose hospital birth--all birth choices need a forum!

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Old 03-25-2012, 05:23 PM
 
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I think that is what the general "birth and beyond'" forum section is for... for example there is selective vaxing and non-vaxing boards, but no "vaxing" board because that is covered under the general "vaccine" forum. I don't know maybe I'm wrong... some forums have subforums but the lack of a subforum doesn't exclude the topic, as far as I understand...

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Old 03-25-2012, 05:32 PM
 
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so--we are in agreement----not to exclude women who choose hospital birth--all birth choices need a forum!



One would think so.  Having had a home birth and then a c-section unexpectedly, I felt like an outcast trying to find some sense of what had transpired.  It really was a sour taste knowing that c-sections were taboo enough that a mere thread would be tolerated but nothing more. 


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Old 03-25-2012, 07:16 PM
 
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obdoc, I have read and communicated with hundreds of ladies here who have chosen hospital births.  It's very common!  I have in my life met some nice doctors, some of whom were extremely frustrated about various aspects of the medical system they had to function in  However, I have had many more negative than positive experiences myself.

 

This board tends to host alternative options to offer them a home especially because there are few places where such subjects are welcome.  You will find a lot of negativity and bad experiences related to hospital births with OBs here but you will also find positive stories as well.  If you are as "good" as you are suggesting then wonderful, but you must also agree that there are a lot of problems within the obstetrical community that lead to these negative experiences as well.  I hope you are working to improve things.

 

Women who choose hospital birth aren't excluded from anything, but a site that was founded to support alternative approaches doesn't need to make a special home for what every other pregnancy and birth site out there is already overwhelmingly full of.  It's what makes mothering.com unique, and it really can't be all things to all people or it will lose what makes it special. Ladies talk here ALL the time about their ultrasounds, OB care, and hospital births.  AND there are also a lot of strong homebirth advocates here.  Sometimes midwives and UC are attacked here, and often OBs are complained about...  It's pretty darn diverse already and I for one do not think Mothering should set out to "prove" itself inclusive by being just like anywhere else.

 

If you want to be a real part of this community then I think you are very very welcome.  If you are bringing something positive.  And I think a natural-birth-supporting OB could bring plenty of positive things to this community.   

 

But if you are really here to start arguments because you want to play your opinions off of people you may feel less than respectful toward-- well, I do not support you doing that at all.  And making this a mainstream birth board pushes homebirthers to the margins just like everywhere else.  Because we are already such a minority in society, it would be very easy for numbers alone to make us marginalized here if more and more energy at Mothering is deliberately and specifically directed toward the most common mainstream options. 


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Old 03-25-2012, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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obdoc, I have read and communicated with hundreds of ladies here who have chosen hospital births.  It's very common!  I have in my life met some nice doctors, some of whom were extremely frustrated about various aspects of the medical system they had to function in  However, I have had many more negative than positive experiences myself.

 

This board tends to host alternative options to offer them a home especially because there are few places where such subjects are welcome.  You will find a lot of negativity and bad experiences related to hospital births with OBs here but you will also find positive stories as well.  If you are as "good" as you are suggesting then wonderful, but you must also agree that there are a lot of problems within the obstetrical community that lead to these negative experiences as well.  I hope you are working to improve things.

 

Women who choose hospital birth aren't excluded from anything, but a site that was founded to support alternative approaches doesn't need to make a special home for what every other pregnancy and birth site out there is already overwhelmingly full of.  It's what makes mothering.com unique, and it really can't be all things to all people or it will lose what makes it special. Ladies talk here ALL the time about their ultrasounds, OB care, and hospital births.  AND there are also a lot of strong homebirth advocates here.  Sometimes midwives and UC are attacked here, and often OBs are complained about...  It's pretty darn diverse already and I for one do not think Mothering should set out to "prove" itself inclusive by being just like anywhere else.

 

If you want to be a real part of this community then I think you are very very welcome.  If you are bringing something positive.  And I think a natural-birth-supporting OB could bring plenty of positive things to this community.   

 

But if you are really here to start arguments because you want to play your opinions off of people you may feel less than respectful toward-- well, I do not support you doing that at all.  And making this a mainstream birth board pushes homebirthers to the margins just like everywhere else.  Because we are already such a minority in society, it would be very easy for numbers alone to make us marginalized here if more and more energy at Mothering is deliberately and specifically directed toward the most common mainstream options. 


I have not said anything I would construe as argumentative---I am just asking why midwives, doulas and childbirth educators are the only birth professionals represented.  I also wish to point out that if you check my posts, I have never been disrespectful---so I don't know why you take an honest question, and assume I now am trying to be argumentative.

 

 

Neither midwives, doulas or OBs are going anywhere--so wouldn't it be better to communicate rather than vilify each other----I don't see how communication can happen if we are excluded.  You ultimately have the power---you can delete any post you wish to censor.

 

Also---I have not seen any site that is "all-inclusive"---can you give me some sites?  

 

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Old 03-25-2012, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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By the way--I have never touted myself as "good"

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Old 03-25-2012, 07:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obdoc View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by littlest birds View Post

obdoc, I have read and communicated with hundreds of ladies here who have chosen hospital births.  It's very common!  I have in my life met some nice doctors, some of whom were extremely frustrated about various aspects of the medical system they had to function in  However, I have had many more negative than positive experiences myself.

 

This board tends to host alternative options to offer them a home especially because there are few places where such subjects are welcome.  You will find a lot of negativity and bad experiences related to hospital births with OBs here but you will also find positive stories as well.  If you are as "good" as you are suggesting then wonderful, but you must also agree that there are a lot of problems within the obstetrical community that lead to these negative experiences as well.  I hope you are working to improve things.

 

Women who choose hospital birth aren't excluded from anything, but a site that was founded to support alternative approaches doesn't need to make a special home for what every other pregnancy and birth site out there is already overwhelmingly full of.  It's what makes mothering.com unique, and it really can't be all things to all people or it will lose what makes it special. Ladies talk here ALL the time about their ultrasounds, OB care, and hospital births.  AND there are also a lot of strong homebirth advocates here.  Sometimes midwives and UC are attacked here, and often OBs are complained about...  It's pretty darn diverse already and I for one do not think Mothering should set out to "prove" itself inclusive by being just like anywhere else.

 

If you want to be a real part of this community then I think you are very very welcome.  If you are bringing something positive.  And I think a natural-birth-supporting OB could bring plenty of positive things to this community.   

 

But if you are really here to start arguments because you want to play your opinions off of people you may feel less than respectful toward-- well, I do not support you doing that at all.  And making this a mainstream birth board pushes homebirthers to the margins just like everywhere else.  Because we are already such a minority in society, it would be very easy for numbers alone to make us marginalized here if more and more energy at Mothering is deliberately and specifically directed toward the most common mainstream options. 


I have not said anything I would construe as argumentative---I am just asking why midwives, doulas and childbirth educators are the only birth professionals represented.  I also wish to point out that if you check my posts, I have never been disrespectful---so I don't know why you take an honest question, and assume I now am trying to be argumentative.

 

 

Neither midwives, doulas or OBs are going anywhere--so wouldn't it be better to communicate rather than vilify each other----I don't see how communication can happen if we are excluded.  You ultimately have the power---you can delete any post you wish to censor.

 

Also---I have not seen any site that is "all-inclusive"---can you give me some sites?  

 


There is no reason why you can't participate in the birth professionals ( or any other) forum. As to why obstetricians are underrepresented here, I don't think MDC actively seeks out any professionals to participate in the forums they haven't just excluded OBs. Who knows why we don't have more. I could speculate but it would be just that, speculation.

I will say I found your first post in this thread a little aggressive. Maybe argumentative is too strong a word but a little bit hostile certainly.

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Old 03-25-2012, 07:44 PM
 
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I read your first two posts in this thread as argumentative with substantial exaggerations.  Most other posts I saw from you at Mothering are definitely not.  I only said IF arguing was your purpose in being here I was against that.  If it's not, then no problem.  (And BTW arguing is okay here--most of us do it a little or more, but it's just that I wouldn't consider it a good reason to be here.)

 

I did not claim that there were all-inclusive boards out there.  There are lots of sites where hospital births and OB care dominate, and little else is discussed.  So I do think it is easy for people who prefer that kind of care to find support in many places.  I do not see the level of disapproval here that you do, and I think you and all women who want to be here and also choose hospital births are very very welcome, but no, not necessarily in need of a special spot.  Like I said, I've been here a while, and women talk very openly about their OB care without hesitation or judgement.  I'm surprise at the level of judgment you are perceiving, because of my long experience.  And for those who speak against OBs, while you may in fact be awesome and not alone, the negativity has come from the real experiences of many many families--it's not just some reckless casual stereotyping. 

 

Now, when there are lots of sincere OBs who together with you want to hang out here and talk shop and change hospital birthing and midwife backup support for the better, and you all get together and ask then maybe there will be a special spot for natural birth OBs.  Also, anyone can propose to start a group, including you.  I don't know all the rules for starting groups, but you could potentially start a group here, then, especially for revolutionary OBs.  That might actually be awesome!  Maybe you should look into it.


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Old 03-25-2012, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No, it is not necessary. Just another reason not to use an ob! (cough cough) lol.

 

 

I guess because I just read yet another comment like this one--and came in feeling quite hurt----had a long day yesterday----and baby ended up being transferred due to breathing issues---not a nice end for a 28 hour labor with good Apgars--you think it all goes great and it can still go wrong!

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Old 03-25-2012, 09:41 PM
 
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No, it is not necessary. Just another reason not to use an ob! (cough cough) lol.

 

 

 


I'm not sure what this comment is referring to but, if you mean the lack of a specific OB subforum  then maybe you would be better off making a request in Questions and Suggestions. The forum participants can't create subforums themselves, we can only request it of the admin. Or, as Little Birds suggested, you could request a group. All you need for that is a second person to act as co-leader with you. The thread to request a new group is also in Questions and Suggestions.


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Old 03-25-2012, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No, it is not necessary. Just another reason not to use an ob! (cough cough) lol.

 

 

posted on forum  "Are pelvic exams really necessary in pregnancy(especially early on)"

 

I will look into your suggestion---but what is the odds of finding a co-leader??

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Old 03-26-2012, 07:02 AM
 
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Ok....MDC has a long history, much of which I wasn't here for.  But let me tell you in the last year things took a turn for the much better, IMO.  Women here used to be afraid to admit they'd had a section because they'd be armchair quarterbacked about all the things they did wrong to get there.  Of course that is stupid but that was what was going on.  

 

While I fully support homebirth in the right circumstances, I had one myself, I fully support a mom deciding other options.  I don't think I've quite "grown" to the place where I think elective c/s are a choice I'd support, I have gone way more middle of the road.  

 

When I first started learning about midwife care and natural childbirth, I thought it was all about avoiding that evil epidural.  Now I realize that an epidural has it's place and isn't even close to being most of the problem in the way American women birth. 

 

Having said all of that; so many women came here in the first place because the mainstream laughed at them and put them down.  The message was: don't be a complainer, be a complier.  Just shut up and do what your OB tells you!

 

Because homebirth isn't legal in my state, I did shadow care with a CNM/OB practice.  Hitting 40 weeks with a true suspected macrosomia I was scheduling and induction for 41 weeks, hoping baby made her appearance earlier.  My homebirth midwife thought even at that point, I'd be better served at a hospital.  My OB wanted to induce me with Cytotec, which scared the crap out of me having read what I'd read, and when asked about side effects, she said "None".  Is that truly good medicine?

 

So many women here are jaded from bad providers....That certainly doesn't mean most providers are bad, but when the ACOG seems to be the President of the "shut up and do what I say" group, that would seem to be where we feel many OBs are coming from.  Just look at the "My OB said what?!?!" website.

 

I think what that person said "No, it is not necessary. Just another reason not to use an ob! (cough cough) lol." That's a terrible thing to say and most of us don't feel that way.  

 

I really hope you'll stick around and get to know us.  I think there's so much interesting discussion to be had and I know that an open minded OB is certainly welcome here.


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Old 03-26-2012, 09:48 AM
 
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The forum is focused on alternative birth and lifestyle choices so it makes sense not to have a dedicated OB forum, but that doesnt mean you cant join in the discussions. There are probably very few OBs who read the board so making a dedicated forum wouldnt make much sense.

 

No matter what community you are involved in you will always find people who are extremists to one side or the other, this forum has gotten a lot better about supporting women through any choices they make, Im hoping it keeps going in that direction.


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Old 03-26-2012, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have a couple of posts on the MY OB SAID WHAT--under "Thoughtful Thursday"---however---have you notice on that site there is no option to "like"----only to "dislike"   So  you can't even "like" a thoughtful comment.

 

While I think it is good to vent and good to get educated---I would venture to say  most women put more effort into shopping for baby clothes than they do into reading about birth---until it is too late--I wonder if holding onto the anger is healing.

 

I know-- I had an unpleasant second delivery--ending up with a C. Section---but after a while I had to stop second guessing what might have been.  I actually think that if I was INDUCED earlier that my baby would not have grown to 10 9 oz and I may have done it---but after pushing for 5 hours  I really didn't have any other options--too high for forceps---too exhausted to push any more.

 

I ended up with a uterine avulsion--and have to wear compression stockings for the last 20 years--but I was involved with my care--I went into labor spontaneously--I was in a midwife / OB practice--was able to walk and eat and get into any position I wanted---but the baby WAS too big---and my attitude is c'est la vie---I had to let the guessing go and move on and be happy!!

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Old 03-26-2012, 05:03 PM
 
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While I think it is good to vent and good to get educated---I would venture to say  most women put more effort into shopping for baby clothes than they do into reading about birth---until it is too late--I wonder if holding onto the anger is healing.

 

Maybe "most" women - but when this is applied across the board to all women, well I think that is the root of a lot of frustrations against the mainstream model here on mdc...
 

 

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Old 03-26-2012, 05:27 PM
 
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I am glad this thread is here, though.  I think it is an important topic to be discussed.  I am a student midwife, and I found myself "imbibing" the attitude of "doctors are bad."  That is not the attitude I want to take into a health care profession.  I have a dear friend who is an OB Gyn and another who is going to be a resident in family practice including obstetrics.  I started to see in them "the big bad OB" instead of engaging in respectful discourse.  Which is ridiculous, because I knew them as thinking, caring individuals who cared very much about how their own children came into the world and chose midwives for the birth of one or more of their children.

 

My own attitudes about OBs stem from my 5 birth experiences--my OBs did not listen to me, did not "respect" me, did not empower me to make changes, just succomb to the machine of interventional childbirth.  While the same "problem" was there with my 2nd birth, my CNM LISTENED, EMPOWERED, and discussed each choice.  We did use a couple of "minor" interventions, but overall my experience was straightforward AND most importantly, I felt like I chose to go that direction, instead of being "required" to do it.

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Old 03-26-2012, 05:30 PM
 
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(Ironically, I was premed in college and went all the way through the process of applying to and got wait-listed at a couple of med schools.  After having my daughter I decided that a career in an allied health profession was a better match for my family/career balance).

 

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Old 03-26-2012, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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chuckle

 

I see you don't like the use of the word "most" or with comments that are maybe generalizations---yet when it comes to obstetricians........

 

Certainly most of the women I see do VERY little to prepare for childbirth---40% use narcotics, 70% smoke, at least 30% are still in high school.

 

Maybe most women on MDC are more involved with decision making---but where I am--it is very different than other parts of the country I have worked in.

 

I am hoping the family of the mom with the breech at her due date---will go for the vaginal birth I am sure she can have --and that her FAMILY, and the women who love to share their horror stories at baby showers don't scare her to death!  FLIP side here.

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Old 03-26-2012, 06:11 PM
 
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chuckle

 

I see you don't like the use of the word "most" or with comments that are maybe generalizations---yet when it comes to obstetricians........

 

 

I have never told anyone to not use an ob/gyn. I know there are plenty of great ob/gyns and hospitals out there. Haven't seen any myself. I don't really care what other women do, like I said, I really think we should have a full range of birth options and our voices and choices should be respected. I get very mad when people assume I do not have the capacity to make decisions about my health. 

 

Flip side ?--- if a woman with a breech wants a c/s, and feels that is the safest option for her, shouldn't that be respected too? 

 

I don't want to argue with you... I'm not going to post here anymore, I'm not a birth professional, I originally wanted to explain the main/sub forum thing, since that was your original question. 
 

 

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Old 03-26-2012, 06:22 PM
 
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While I think it is good to vent and good to get educated---I would venture to say  most women put more effort into shopping for baby clothes than they do into reading about birth---until it is too late--I wonder if holding onto the anger is healing.

 

 


I don't really think you'll find that much here.  That is sort of the point of this site.  I am not going to say everyone knows what they're talking about or that I agree with what they're doing, but I think you'll find a higher percentage of moms here who have done their reading about birth.  

 

I think what you'll also find here is women who have had birth traumas, with all types of providers, and this is a safe place to talk about that.  I am happy that you can look back on your c/s positively but many cannot and it doesn't mean they were uneducated or wrong for having those feelings. 

 

I don't think anyone has the right to tell another woman how to feel about her birth.

 


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