Doubting the natural power of birth/my future plans for education/the current "system." - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-07-2011, 09:58 PM
 
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Hm...those midwives that you admire so much in the UK, which assisted you during YOUR birth, they had degrees equivalent to a CNM degree in the US.

(CPM's are not allowed anywhere in Europe....)

 

UK midwives undergo rigorous training ( see example here: http://www.uws.ac.uk/courses/ug-courseinfo.asp?courseid=579 ) in order to become truly competent in what they do.

 

I think it'd be really cool if you were able to offer your future clients the same level of care and competence which you received when you were giving birth wink1.gif


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Old 08-08-2011, 07:21 AM
 
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It is a bit different than the CNM process here in the US though. It appears that the UK requires only an undergraduate degree in midwifery. The CNM is a graduate program and the person must first go through a nursing program to gain an  undergrad degree in nursing. Here, in the US, CNM programs are moving towards being doctorate programs rather than master degrees as well. So, the systems of education for this career path are just set up so differently.
 

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Originally Posted by Kanna View Post

Hm...those midwives that you admire so much in the UK, which assisted you during YOUR birth, they had degrees equivalent to a CNM degree in the US.

(CPM's are not allowed anywhere in Europe....)

 


Erika, mama to three beautiful kids (plus one gestating), and wife to one fantastic man.

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Old 08-10-2011, 02:50 PM
 
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OP -- I think your post is a very natural outcome of considering embarking on a career in which you hold the lives of women and babies in your hands.  That is a tremendous responsibility and any provider who can take that on without experiencing serious anxiety and concern for being the "best she can be" is not a provider that should be in business. 

 

Have you checked out the Navel Gazing Midwife's blog?  It might be of interest to you as the blog of a long time non-nurse midwife who decided to step back into a montrice-doula role primarily out of the same concerns you express. 

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Old 08-17-2011, 01:03 PM
 
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Wow, I first have to say how sad it makes me that this thread has included more of the same anti-CPM vitriol that is going on in this country. Everyone is entitled to there own opinions, but can we stick to actually responding to the OP's post, rather than using it as a soapbox for your own agendas?

 

In response to your actual question, I'm a CPM. I chose to go that route after exploring different CNM programs, and a reluctance to have two years of nursing education before beginning my midwifery education. I thought a lot about it, and attended a MEAC-accredited school that offers a Bachelor's Degree in Midwifery. For me, I wanted the three-plus years of midwifery education, to supplement the experiential training I got through my apprenticeship. In addition, I was lucky enough (after getting my CPM) to practice as a "junior" midwife for an additional 50 births and get more experience. I'm also lucky to live in a state that licenses midwives, and has strict guidelines for doing so. If one is licensed, there is oversight from the board and a means of complaint if necessary. They are also developing a peer review system similar to OBs where poor outcomes can be reviewed.

 

I do think that the lack of oversight for some CPMs in this country can led to a situation where negligent or unskilled midwives can fall through the cracks. So I do think it is the consumer's job to research any health care provider before hiring and trusting them. I also think that while CPMs are pushing for autonomy, and in this climate it is terrifying to think about oversight from a medical community that thinks we are uneducated and unsafe) I can't help but wonder if a system of oversight, and working within the medical community as opposed to on the outside of it, would change how midwives were perceived and create a uniformity of education, etc.  There's a great old documentary online called All My Babies http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/all_my_babies_a_midwifes_own_story/ that shows midwifery in the southern US in the early 50s. It's a beautiful old film, and in the system they had set up at the time, traditional midwives were seeing patients, and the patient had to see their back-up doctor 1-2 times to verify they were safe candidates for homebirth. That is so appealing to me -in theory. Unfortunately, even here where we have a fantastic relationship with a local hospital; when I call to consult about something they preface their responses with "well, I don't think anyone is safe to give birth at home, but this particular risk factor doesn't concern me."

 

All that being said; I do have occasional regrets about not choosing to take the CNM route. It has nothing to do with my education and training, and in fact I work closely with CNMs (who, for the record, actually attend fewer births than midwives before certification). It's more about my personal struggle in being on-call all the time. Sometimes I wonder if it would be nice to have the option of taking a hospital job to earn more money, or get to take turns on call and have a different kind of family life. On the other hand, I struggle with births where I haven't connected well to the clients. If I'm getting called in the night for someone I barely know, or don't know at all because I'm covering for someone, it's harder for me to love my job. So, for me, the CPM route and this type of practiec is the right choice right now.

 

Good luck with this decision! I hope you follow your heart wherever it leads you! Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.

 

 

**And so the flamers know in advance, I won't be responding to posts that debate the safety of home birth.


Me homebirth midwife (35) and DP (28) Mamas to the love of our lives, feisty toddler Lucie, and an aloof miniature poodle.
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Old 08-18-2011, 08:24 PM
 
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I am also saddened by this thread.  I think pitting CNM's against CPM is destructive to both professions and women who choose midwives.  I am a CPM and have been for 12 years.  I have worked with wonderful CPMs, CNMs and even a few good docs.  The most important thing you can do regarding your education is follow your heart.  I started with the CNM and realized it was not for me.  I love being a CPM.  My training was wonderful and when I finished I was a competent entry level midwife and I practiced like one which means I called for advice and always took more experienced midwives with me to births.  Now I am the one attending births with newer midwives so we can keep birth safe and accessible to all.

Your education will be what you make it.  No matter what path you choose and if you ever meet a midwife or doc who has 'seen it all' or 'done it all' ---

RUN the other way.

take care and good luck

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Old 08-26-2011, 10:45 PM
 
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Wow...I haven't read the whole thread, but I just want to encourage you that this is a worthy cause.  Maybe you aren't ready to bite off the midwife part of birth - maybe you should just start as a doula and see what you witness.  As a doula I have nearly given up on hospital birth - it is not only dangerous at times, but emotionally extremely traumatic for me as I take the brunt of the medical manipulation for my client.  I have nearly quit more than once because I too began to doubt that birth was at all safe.  Every home birth I've done has reassured me that birth can be great...and usually should be.  I've had to redefine my personal goals and to rehash my own reasons for attending births at all.  And at the end of the day I come back to the same fact - women bond better with their babies and have less medical interventions when they are well supported.  I stand in the gap and help women discover just how amazing and powerful they are.  It isn't for everyone, but it is a worthy endeavor.  I am now the mother of 4 boys who's first mother experienced postpartum psychosis...and I believe they would still have her had she been in the loving hands of a doula or midwife.  Just some thoughts.  Follow your heart...what do you want to do?  If you will be a midwife - do it to the best of your ability.  Blessings on your journey!


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Old 08-27-2011, 11:21 AM
 
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their training is and isnt rigorous, it actually isnt a whole lot different from the training here. They do 2-3 years of university, they have to catch 40 babies, they do in class and in placement portions of their training. CNM degree is a lot more comprehensive and includes nursing, which UK midwifery does not. UK midwifery is not the same as CNM, they are more akin to CPM as they are direct entry midwives.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanna View Post

Hm...those midwives that you admire so much in the UK, which assisted you during YOUR birth, they had degrees equivalent to a CNM degree in the US.

(CPM's are not allowed anywhere in Europe....)

 

UK midwives undergo rigorous training ( see example here: http://www.uws.ac.uk/courses/ug-courseinfo.asp?courseid=579 ) in order to become truly competent in what they do.

 

I think it'd be really cool if you were able to offer your future clients the same level of care and competence which you received when you were giving birth wink1.gif



 


Aspiring Midwife applying to University for fall 2011!
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