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#1 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Considering Mothering has decided that MDC is no longer going to be a safe space, I'm seriously wanting to move. The only reason I'm even at Mothering any more is for the DDC, and at this point I'm wondering if anyone would like to move the DDC to some other board. I haven't looked into options at all yet, but I'd probably be up for setting something up.

 

But seriously, Mothering is encouraging trolling in our board, and it's ridiculous. I miss the old Mothering. That circumcision thread needs to be locked and whoever made the decision to publicize that discussion (and thus invite one off posters who aren't due in Aprilish and aren't respectful) needs to apologize to us. But considering at this point Mothering clearly cares more about page hits and advertising revenue than maintaining forum peace, it clearly won't happen.

 

-A very frustrated "senior member" of MDC.


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#2 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 11:36 AM
 
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Sunflwr- I agree with your post and Im sorry this has hurt you and any one else. I dont blame you for wanting to leave.  I will stay in this due date club for the women I feel like i have allreaday formed a bond with, but we have already started using facebook secret group (are you in there?). PM me if you want the info on how to find that group. Also- I run a parenting group for 50 families in Copenhagen, and you can join our "forum" if you like......

 

I have changed my user name in the past to escape those conversations which were just so mean/disrespectful and not being moderated. 


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#3 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm on the bead swap facebook group, but wasn't aware there was another one. And yes, I'd like to stay with this group of people, but I'm just so angry at Mothering turning into babycenter. heck, worse than! I was on BBC for years and they didn't send out "here, come to this sizzling hot discussion"! emails.


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#4 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 12:48 PM
 
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I'm in the Bead Swap FB group too, but if there is another one for general chat/MDC type conversations I'd love to know about it too! :) 

 

For the most part I'm still happy here in our little DDC.  I just don't understand why they put our thread in the newsletter like that.  I mean, it is part of a DDC... not general everyone conversation even if it is public.  Plus, we've already had Moderator involvement, so I really don't get it.


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#5 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 04:09 PM
 
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Let's just say I'm not touching that thread with a ten foot pole.  It's one thing to have a discussion about choices with our fellow ddc members, many of whom we have been chatting with for months now, it's a whole other bag of worms having everybody with an opinion drop by with their two cents in the matter.  I'm not a fan. greensad.gif


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#6 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 04:17 PM
 
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I think just about anywhere we go without a "private" forum we're going to have this to some extent. I'm the moderator of a yuku group, and that's been relatively friendly (plus I'm very familiar with all the inner workings), and you can set it to membership by request only. I'd be happy to help set something up there, otherwise I don't really know of anywhere.

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What it really comes down to, is I'll stay here if that's what everyone votes to do, I'll go elsewhere if that's what everyone wants. I've really come to feel bonded with some of our mamas, and would hate to lose any of them at this stage!


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#7 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 04:36 PM
 
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Okay, I'm really treading lightly here because I'm worried my post will be taken in a way I don't intend, but I'm really curious. This question is pretty specifically intended for SFMB because you're the OP but also because I really like your style of posts, your apparently thoughtfulness and intellect, and the opinons you've expressed here thusfar. That being said, I'm always interested in anyone's opinons. Here goes:

 

 

I have not been on a forum in the past that had explicit policies of excluding certain discussions. I am not a long-time Mothering member, so I don't know what it used to be like, and don't know the function of the rules that are now not allowed. From my perspective, it makes a lot of sense to have certain forums (e.g. homebirth, no-circ, no-vax, UC) heavily moderated against opposing views - those are safe spaces for specific controversial topics. But it also seems to make sense to allow for discussion of two sides of the issues in the more general forums, like a DDC, Tribe, Pregnancy in general, etc., forum.

 

In forums I'm more familiar with, ad hominem attacks are swiftly and severely moderated (with a points and banning system clearly laid out in the UA), but opposing viewpoints are allowed. Non-productive conversations (where no new info is introduced and people are just spitting at each other) are locked, but otherwise left to go forward. 

 

So, I guess my question is, isn't it important to have an opportunity for some people to express dissent, and have a discussion about it? Was this allowed at all on the old Mothering?

 

(If asked three years ago, I don't know what I would have thought about CD, homebirth, circ, vax, etc. Mothering has helped me greatly in my exploration of these topics. But if there was never anything but one side to the discussions, I'd worry that the information was so biased as to not be helpful.) 

 

(Ps. To further caveat this post, I have to express my dismay that Mothering chose to highlight chiro's thread. I think it was a bad choice on their part. I also think that some more moderation could have occured, but in this post I'm curious in a more general sense.)

 


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#8 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 04:40 PM
 
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On a different note: I haven't explored social groups, but can non-members post to them? If so, can individual threads be limited such that non-members cannot post to them? 

 

If there is a little more control of membership, it may be worth drumming up support for an earlier-than-anticipated moved to a social group instead of our DDC forum.


Married to my favorite man in '07. Our firstborn came along in April 2012 (HBC), and our second is on the way, due sometime in May 2014 (planning an HBAC).
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#9 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Zuzu, that's about where I am. I don't want to lose these women, but I'm officially really pissed at Mothering.

 

Rosie, thank you for that compliment, and don't worry. I swear I'm not easily offended. MDC in general was a safe space for the attachment parenting types of all persuasions, and had a large and diverse following. Part of what made MDC so great is that one could come here to ask about sleep issues without being told to read Babywise or just let your baby CIO, or ask about discipline without it devolving into a discussion on how one should beat their kids. Similarly, discussions in favor of circumcision were banned outright because of what we've seen in the thread in question.

 

With many issues there are a variety of viewpoints that are equally valid and much room for discussion. This isn't true of circumcision. It boils down to medical science (there being no medical benefit to circumcision) vs. tradition (looking like daddy, locker room mockery). For someone without a religious reason to circumcise there simply is no rational reason to circumcise. I'm not touching the religious argument with a 10 foot pole, as a non-Jew I can't possibly speak intelligently or relevantly about circumcising in that context. By banning any pro-circumcision discussion across this entire forum it creates space for discussion all the other issues with penis care, including how to deal with criticism for not circumcising.

 

Frankly, if someone wants to feel better about their choice to chop off part of their newborn's body, they can go to every single other parenting forum on the internet. Why should this one, which is explicitly supposed to have a narrower focus and cater to people who are interested in attachment or "natural" (I tend to hate the natural designation) parenting be open to that? If we do, why should MDC exist at all, when we can all move over to Babycenter, or Parenting.com, or livejournals's Parenting101, or FitMama, or etc. etc. etc.

 

Moreover, MDC banned discussions in favor of circumcision, but not parents who choose to circumcise. I was once on a forum that was heavily Catholic and explicitly pro-life. Despite the fact that I'm a pro-choice pagan feminist, I was given a very enthusiastic invitation and welcome to join that forum, but I knew on going in there that I was not to discuss abortion politics, and I didn't unless someone said something terribly stupid about pro-choicers, and even then I didn't get into why I was pro-choice or any of the arguments for reproductive freedom. Their space, their rules, and I accepted that. I can't speak to anyone else here, but when I get into a discussion about circumcision anywhere, including chiro's thread, I try to keep any argument factual and general without making it personal. I've never said "you are wrong for circumcising your kid" but I have said, and will continue to say "there is no medical benefit to circumcision and non-trivial risks."

 

I'm here because I want a space where I won't be flamed for choosing to homebirth, where I won't be told I need to hit my child, where I won't be encouraged to let my infant scream herself to sleep every night, and where I won't have people telling me I need to give my child cosmetic surgery, but where I'm exposed to a variety of different lifestyles and viewpoints different than my own in a largely friendly atmosphere. MDC used to be like that. It's not anymore. Believe me, even within it's narrower focus, there is plenty of room for opposition and fighting within MDC. I've seen some pretty interesting discussions over the years, though they weren't turned into flame wars because it was heavily moderated. This is true no longer. MDC is looking more like babycenter every day and I'm really unhappy about that.

 


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#10 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 06:00 PM
 
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I'm just really hurt that MDC would post about our group in an email like that greensad.gif It takes a very safe and positive feeling DDC and gives aspects of it a very weird vibe. I'm all for locking that thread, and possibly moving to a social group within MDC. I too feel that certain forums in MDC are going to have a more "public" nature to them, but I feel a DDC has to have some semblance of "privacy". From what I've seen in the past, when a person would post in a DDC that wasn't their "birth month" they would indicate that they were "DDC crashing" and seemed to be respectful about it. The fact that MDC was "stirring the pot" in our situation really hurts.

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#11 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 06:03 PM
 
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Hmmmm....

 

I've been around Mothering for a long time (a few years longer than I was a member). I've learned a lot from members here, and also been inspired to research many things I wouldn't even have known about without it. I have seen the changes too, and I am not overly a fan of all of them. This one was clearly a mistake on their part. I do prefer the relaxed moderation in some areas, because it seemed too tight before. But I think the pendulum swung too far.

 

That being said, it is still currently *better* than Baby Center or WTEWYE. Since I am pregnant with my first, I am going to need it more than ever. I can't leave because there isn't anything to replace it. No where else can I get advice on cloth diapering, babywearing, cosleeping, etc. So I will take the bad with the good and stay.

 

If people want to move to a social group, I will support that. I don't join facebook groups if I can help it.

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#12 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Daylicious, I agree with you. I like the DDCs are public because I've gotten some valuable insight from respectful DDC crashers before. Mothering betrayed us. Not that it matters to them anymore since we're not the ones paying their bills.


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#13 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 06:25 PM
 
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"By banning any pro-circumcision discussion across this entire forum it creates space for discussion all the other issues with penis care, including how to deal with criticism for not circumcising."

 

Okay, this makes sense. 

 

"Why should this one, which is explicitly supposed to have a narrower focus and cater to people who are interested in attachment or "natural" (I tend to hate the natural designation) parenting be open to that?

 

This is what I didn't understand before. This forum obviously has a narrower focus and attracts and "keeps" members who are part of that focus. I guess I assumed that that would be maintained more organically. I see that another way to maintain the narrow focus can be through drawing some lines in the sand on supported or unsupported views. The idea of that is just to foreign to me that I was taken aback by it at first. 

 

"MDC used to be like that. It's not anymore." It's interesting, because this is the way I see MDC. I have no comparison, however, so I can't see what I'm missing. In the circ thread most posts (overwhelmingly) were no-circ, or "I circled but then gained new information and won't again."

 

Are other threads on discipline, sleep issues, and other such topics truly debated in MDC, or are they largely one-sided with a couple outlier posts? (I really don't know, I spent a year in TTC and haven't heavily ventured outside of DDC and TTC so far.)

 

And finally…I'm sorry you're losing the forum you love. I've been through that in another context, and it's heartbreaking to see a community and its norms, values, and resources slip away from you through moderation, new management, or changing forum culture.  That suck suck sucks. 


Married to my favorite man in '07. Our firstborn came along in April 2012 (HBC), and our second is on the way, due sometime in May 2014 (planning an HBAC).
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#14 of 76 Old 11-29-2011, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I haven't spent much time in the Gentle Discipline or Family Bed and Nighttime Parenting board, so I don't know, but the UC forum pretty much went private since it got overrun by trolls, and the homebirth forum currently has at least 2 threads full of anti-hombirthers, one of which is 8 pages along. I don't go there anymore either.


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#15 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 02:40 AM
 
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I hadn't read the email newsletter to pick up on why that thread exploded so much, but once I saw it go over 2 pages, I assumed it was not a thread I wanted to participate in. I am now informed on what happened to that thread. Yikes.

 

I don't necessarily practice some of the ideals held by (what seems like) the majority of the moms around here, but I have appreciated the forum members for making educated decisions/suggestions--not evidenced by the conclusions, but by the thoughtful evaluation/investigation process and open discussions instead of basis on childish arguments, traditions, religions, scare tactics, and whatever else I see in some other places online. I haven't "been around" for long here, but regardless of everyone's position on matter X,Y or Z, this factor has made this forum a great place to virtually "be." I don't explore outside of this DDC and blended families, though, so maybe I'm too sheltered by the polite ladies!

 

 

I will follow the group to wherever it goes. I'm not particularly a fan of the Facebook group concept, because I find it hard to follow things I'm interested in, but I can cope! I'm with dealic--this resource is important now expecting my 1st!


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#16 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 05:54 AM
 
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I am in the party of i will go wherever people are going to go, I have bonded with the group.  I read on mdc a long time before I joined to be able to post when I was pg with DS.  It makes me sad to see just how much it has changed.  I definitely see the value of having a variety of opinions and "sides" represented but with the lack of moderation, conversations have turned to people attacking rather than actually discussing.  It is really sad to me because I do not know another resource like mdc and I value the experience of so many mamas on here.  A lot of people were up in arms about the moderation but I would much rather it be more than less.  I do not like the vulnerability that I feel like this lack has created (I kind of had a fake sense security anyway) and I do not post as often as I used to just because I do not want to run into those people who want a confrontation when I just want to explore a topic I do not know enough about. I guess I am saying that yeah, it makes me really sad and I am upset but I don't want to leave all the ladies in our ddc. 


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#17 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 06:51 AM
 
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I'll go elsewhere, but probably also check in here periodically if there is something of value that I can contribute.

 

 

OT, but does anyone remember when just complaining about mods would get you a warning?  When I was new I got a warning for accidentally posting in the Birth Professionals subforum instead of the Birth & Beyond.  So some things have changed for the better, but mostly I'm hurt (think our paper subscriptions) and disappointed about the direction that has been chosen for MDC.  I'm actually hesitant to post this because I don't want to get in trouble (conditioning, eh?).

 

 

I didn't see MDC calling out the thread in question--was that in Q&S, or on the main Mothering site?


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#18 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 06:53 AM
 
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I feel so sad.

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#19 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 06:54 AM
 
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Looks like only approved members of a social group can post in that social group. Group leaders can approve membership and ban members. Group leaders cannot, however, moderate posts. 

 

I wouldn't be opposed to a movement toward social groups. Anyone want to be a group leader? (Which I assume is a commitment to being online and able to approve members somewhat regularly...)


Married to my favorite man in '07. Our firstborn came along in April 2012 (HBC), and our second is on the way, due sometime in May 2014 (planning an HBAC).
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#20 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 06:54 AM
 
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I used to be active awhile ago, but stopped, it changed and yeah, long story.  I do like having the interesting views and all and I have no idea what went on with the circ thread and a newsletter because I don't read the newsletters.  I do see it's become a very intense thread that got out of control.  It's one thing when a question is asked and mamas in the DDC answer respectfully, but when others get involved and flaming starts, it's just wrong.  That's why I don't post much, I don't like flames being thrown and you never know when someone will decide to take offense and throw them leaving the OP unclear as to what happened or why it's happening.

 

The safe forum feeling left long ago and I do miss it.  If it were private I'd be much more open to posting more, especially since I like all the different points of view on parenting and pregnancy, it's always a refresher!


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#21 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 06:58 AM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by RosieL View Post

Looks like only approved members of a social group can post in that social group. Group leaders can approve membership and ban members. Group leaders cannot, however, moderate posts. 

 

I wouldn't be opposed to a movement toward social groups. Anyone want to be a group leader? (Which I assume is a commitment to being online and able to approve members somewhat regularly...)


 

I'd support a move towards social groups as well, with the hope that everyone who posted their EDD and info in one of those two big threads would be welcome.  Its sad, though, because I was really excited about getting the last DDC.  Its possible to have more than one group leader as well, right?   If we do it, we need to put something regarding civility in the little "purpose statement" thing and be self-regulating.   Okay I'm going to get off of here for a while and let others give their two cents. 

 

 

 


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#22 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 07:00 AM
 
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I spend WAY TOO much time online (don't believe me ask my sweet husband sometime LOL), and would be happy to be a group leader. If it will provide us with a little more protection from such things then I'm for the move.


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#23 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 07:24 AM
 
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I'll move with the herd smile.gif


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#24 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 07:28 AM
 
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I know I don't post as often as I want, but I love being a part of this group and would like to go wherever y'all do.


Wendy,loving wife to Brian, happy mama of Trinity(15), Christian(15), Gavin(13), Logan(11), Griffon(9),Jubilee(7), Epiphany (4), and Lucian Danger( born 18 April 12) <3
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#25 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 07:41 AM
 
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I don't post a ton, but I am always online, if I am not at work (my poor husband would agree). I am willing to be a leader too. I think we can have a few.

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#26 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 08:13 AM
 
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I think we should give the Social Group a try.  Do we have to start all new threads, or can they be moved?


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#27 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 08:27 AM
 
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I don't know, I can contact them and ask.

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#28 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 09:25 AM
 
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Im happy to move too if you all are going. When its gets up can we make sure to make a thread saying about the move with a link so all can find it? 


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#29 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 09:27 AM
 
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They can't move our threads, but she is opening us a Social Group. I've asked them not to close the DDC, so we don't lose these threads. I asked that myself and zuzusplace be leaders of it, and for it to be closed. That way we can control membership, and limit posts. It will be harder at first to get everyone in, but I figure we can manage. winky.gif

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#30 of 76 Old 11-30-2011, 09:55 AM
 
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noooo!!! dont go. :(

 

 i hate change, stay here with me. :)joy.gif

 

of corse, i will follow you if you go, but ill still beg you to stay. :)


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semi crunchy, but getting crispier!

 

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