Humanized Caesarean Birth: How do we help the 5-15% who will need a c-section? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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#91 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 06:15 PM
 
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I guess I wasn't "tied down" really. The surgical table was very narrow and there was two arm boards that extended from the table. I understand the narrow make of the table is so the Dr.'s and nurses can get really close to you with no table to get in the way. The narrow table made me very nervous. I almost rolled off it before section #2. The only person in the room at the time was my nurse (Dr.'s hadn't even arrived yet) and she turned for just a brief moment and I started to slip off the table, she turned back and noticed in time thankfully HAAA! Anyway, they did Velcro me down with one small strap about 4" below my armpit on my left arm. I could still reach up and scratch my nose & had full movement of my other arm (which I clung to the arm board with ) but whoa man, it made me feel a whole lot more secure to have that strap on my arm haa!

I haven't heard of the arm(s) being tied down as mandatory. From what I understand, most Dr.'s would be fine w/out strapping arms down if you request otherwise. I do believe they do it to make sure the surgical field stays sterile or to prevent someone from pulling at an IV line. I don't think it's an issue for most women but I know some can panic during the procedure. Also, directly below the strap on my arm I had a blood pressure cuff and the anesthesiologist had his hand on that arm almost the whole time.... so maybe it's a means of ensuring your arm is positioned properly for swift and precise action if a problem arises??

And I still don't like the section birth ribbon. I mean I don't expect it to be covered in rainbows and unicorns but I dunno, I still don't like it
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#92 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 06:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Munchkinmaker View Post
I guess I wasn't "tied down" really. The surgical table was very narrow and there was two arm boards that extended from the table. I understand the narrow make of the table is so the Dr.'s and nurses can get really close to you with no table to get in the way. The narrow table made me very nervous. I almost rolled off it before section #2. The only person in the room at the time was my nurse (Dr.'s hadn't even arrived yet) and she turned for just a brief moment and I started to slip off the table, she turned back and noticed in time thankfully HAAA! Anyway, they did Velcro me down with one small strap about 4" below my armpit on my left arm. I could still reach up and scratch my nose & had full movement of my other arm (which I clung to the arm board with ) but whoa man, it made me feel a whole lot more secure to have that strap on my arm haa!
Oh, okay. I didn't have the strap, but I've heard about being tied down a lot, and wondered.

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I haven't heard of the arm(s) being tied down as mandatory. From what I understand, most Dr.'s would be fine w/out strapping arms down if you request otherwise.
I know quite a few women who requested that they not be tied, and were told they had to be.

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I do believe they do it to make sure the surgical field stays sterile or to prevent someone from pulling at an IV line. I don't think it's an issue for most women but I know some can panic during the procedure.
I always panic...every time. Fortunately, my panic manifests itself as freezing, not "fight or flight", so nobody notices. I've been complimented multiple times on my "good attitude" and calm demeanour during the surgery. *sigh*

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Also, directly below the strap on my arm I had a blood pressure cuff and the anesthesiologist had his hand on that arm almost the whole time.... so maybe it's a means of ensuring your arm is positioned properly for swift and precise action if a problem arises??
Yeah - they always had the cuff on, and I was instructed to keep that arm straight, but I would have, anyway.

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And I still don't like the section birth ribbon. I mean I don't expect it to be covered in rainbows and unicorns but I dunno, I still don't like it

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#93 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 06:19 PM
 
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well the title of the thread for one.

why do women NEED help if their c/s was warranted? why is it mostly women who haven't had c/s pitying those that have?

granted all surgeries bring with it a chance of depression. that is normal. there's no reason to victimize women though. that's what threads like this do. at least here within this community most the time.


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Respectfully, who in the world said they didn't? The very OP acknowledges that they are necessary and even life-saving at least 5-15% of the time.

As much as people are frustrated with the idea that the "NCB community" (apparently a monolith) "blames mothers" for C/S, I am annoyed that the "NCB community" is being painted with a broad brush.

This is the crabs-in-a-barrel thing I was talking about.

I don't so much "pity" C/S moms as I am sorry they usually have so much more to recover from than most V-birth moms, physically. And I feel angry for those who were bullied into them or had them unnecessarily-- which is half or more of them. (If 15% are "necessary" and our rate is 40%...?)

By the way, regarding "too posh to push":

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...tive-cesareans

THE PRIMARY PROBLEM HERE IS NOT OTHER MOTHERS. Not their attitudes, not their support or lack thereof, not their choices or "choices," not their defensiveness or even their extremely rude comments (on all sides). I am not saying they don't hurt or aren't detrimental, but they are not responsible for the barrel we're in, here.

I cannot stress this enough.

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#94 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 06:21 PM
 
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I wasn't tied down. When I asked to NOT be tied down I was looked at like I was nuts too so it's not common everywhere.

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#95 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 06:30 PM
 
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well the title of the thread for one.

why do women NEED help if their c/s was warranted? why is it mostly women who haven't had c/s pitying those that have?

granted all surgeries bring with it a chance of depression. that is normal. there's no reason to victimize women though. that's what threads like this do. at least here within this community most the time.
How on earth does asking how c-sections can be made less traumatic victimize anybody? If you don't need them to be humanized, that's great. There are a lot of us who do need that. We need it badly. The systemic approach (of course there are individual providers who don't fit the mold) to c-sections isn't very respectful of the woman or the "birth". So...are you suggesting we just leave it that, so that we don't accidentally victimize women who are okay with their sections?

I'm honestly having trouble understanding the objections to this thread. This is - again - sounding like women who are traumatized should be hung out to dry, so that nobody accidentally suggests that someone was traumatized when they weren't.

How is anyone being victimized by the suggestion that c-sections can be - or even are - a dehumanizing experience? If your (no particular "you") had a c-section that wasn't like that, that's a good thing. How is it victimizing you to want that for other women, too?

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#96 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 07:08 PM
 
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So this is why I will say I feel resentment when I see the only option to signify c-section birth is an upside down ribbon. It implies that sections are exclusively "birth done wrong". I genuinely feel like my last section was "birth done right". It was perfect for me & my situation.
I agree 100%. Honestly, after reading the official explanation of the ribbon it irritates me a bit more - as if my C/S should be a disappointment to me when it absolutely was not and never will be. I often feel that when I state my opinion here I am immediately countered by opinions telling me why I am wrong and why I should have been traumatized.

While not ideal my C/S was not a traumatic experience and I wish that my feelings could be accepted by all here.
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#97 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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RainbowMoon, the answer to the question "why do women need help if their c-section was warranted?" for *me* is that just because a c-section can be warranted doesn't mean that however the mom is treated is automatically ok because she needed a c-section. Even a mom who wasn't traumatized might prefer to have a baby going straight over drapes to onto mom's chest, and for a mom on the border of feeling traumatized or not something as simple as even just 5 minutes of skin to skin in the OR right after birth might make a tremendous difference in how she perceives her birth.

I care about figuring out how to help the greatest number of women possible have positive birth experiences, including women who need are best served by caesarean birth. Women deserve joyful, humanized births in everything on the spectrum from a home birth to a caesarean. The mother has the right to joy in that experience and a right to whatever she needs to reach that happiness and peace in safety, and given that some women are always going to need caesarean births, I want to know what would help make that the most joyful experience for the greatest number of mothers.

I don't understand why you're offended by this idea, and with all due respect I think you might be reacting to something that I never said and am not implying. I'm far from a natural birth purist, and would consider doing birth work as a doula specifically for women requiring more medicalized and/or caesarean births.

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#98 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 07:26 PM
 
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I am not just talking about this thread. I am talking about the natural childbirth community as a whole and the the whole "you are broken if you have a c/s" mentality. I have seen it damage more than one mother and MORE often than a c/s itself!

There are many of us who beg to differ that our c/s's WERE respectful. There's no need to heap pity on the c/s moms is our point. NOW in the cases of severe trauma like your own that is different. But definitely NOT The norm as the natural birth community leads moms to believe, there's no reason for it!

Surgery sucks period. It's traumatic. We don't need to be victimized further though when the REAL problem lies with the insurance companies and hospital protocols.

The objection in to the thread is the wording and generalizations. Especially coming from those who haven't had sections. Kind of offensive if you ask me but that's just me. We definitely don't have the same feelings on this! I Just find the NFL community not the place to get support from though in terms of c/s. (Sadly)

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How on earth does asking how c-sections can be made less traumatic victimize anybody? If you don't need them to be humanized, that's great. There are a lot of us who do need that. We need it badly. The systemic approach (of course there are individual providers who don't fit the mold) to c-sections isn't very respectful of the woman or the "birth". So...are you suggesting we just leave it that, so that we don't accidentally victimize women who are okay with their sections?

I'm honestly having trouble understanding the objections to this thread. This is - again - sounding like women who are traumatized should be hung out to dry, so that nobody accidentally suggests that someone was traumatized when they weren't.

How is anyone being victimized by the suggestion that c-sections can be - or even are - a dehumanizing experience? If your (no particular "you") had a c-section that wasn't like that, that's a good thing. How is it victimizing you to want that for other women, too?

Blissful Mama to DD-(5), DS-(6) and someone new due in November!
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#99 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 07:31 PM
 
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well I find the word "humanized" in itself a bit degrading. My baby and I are BOTH Humans. My doctors were respectful. I was not forced into anything. The experience was a good one. No need for the pity party or to feel you must help me, yk? I am educated enough to make my own decisions. it just rubs me the wrong way that there are moms out there thinking they must save me!

I get that you want to help but the tone feels yucky.

I think it would go alot further and be more valuable to explore how to support c/s moms further and not ostracize them. (Along with the malpractice ins. and the hospital politics)

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RainbowMoon, the answer to the question "why do women need help if their c-section was warranted?" for *me* is that just because a c-section can be warranted doesn't mean that however the mom is treated is automatically ok because she needed a c-section. Even a mom who wasn't traumatized might prefer to have a baby going straight over drapes to onto mom's chest, and for a mom on the border of feeling traumatized or not something as simple as even just 5 minutes of skin to skin in the OR right after birth might make a tremendous difference in how she perceives her birth.

I care about figuring out how to help the greatest number of women possible have positive birth experiences, including women who need are best served by caesarean birth. Women deserve joyful, humanized births in everything on the spectrum from a home birth to a caesarean. The mother has the right to joy in that experience and a right to whatever she needs to reach that happiness and peace in safety, and given that some women are always going to need caesarean births, I want to know what would help make that the most joyful experience for the greatest number of mothers.

I don't understand why you're offended by this idea, and with all due respect I think you might be reacting to something that I never said and am not implying. I'm far from a natural birth purist, and would consider doing birth work as a doula specifically for women requiring more medicalized and/or caesarean births.

Blissful Mama to DD-(5), DS-(6) and someone new due in November!
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#100 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 07:59 PM
 
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It is by no means a victimization of women to acknowledge that many women are victims. That is akin to saying that a non-white person decrying discrimination is just "pulling the race card." Dismissing another's difficulty so flippantly because its not the same as your experience is never ok.

Some women are fine with their c-sections. Some end up with PTSD. There is room to honor and support both sides.

Rainbowmoon I get the impression that you find the terms the discussion is couched in to be patronizing. Perhaps this is something that needs examined in a thread meant to be supportive. Personally I find the word "dehumanizing" to refer to the way the medical machine treats birth. I certainly felt some of this during my son's birth, and I was in a very patient-centric hospital...but a hospital nonetheless.

Frankly what I don't agree with is excluding women who have not had a section from the discussion. What possible end could that serve outside of further alienation for all mothers?
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#101 of 111 Old 10-15-2010, 09:27 PM
 
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I Just find the NFL community not the place to get support from though in terms of c/s. (Sadly)
I'm hearing this from more and more women here lately. I find it really interesting, because the NFL community is the only place I've ever found any support. Actually..."c-section support" were the Google search terms I used to find MDC in the first place.

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#102 of 111 Old 10-16-2010, 01:00 AM
 
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I respectfully disagree. Certainly if I were talking to a group of OBs I would have something to say to them as well.

But there is a systemically entrenched, suspicious attitude towards c-sections within the natural birth community and I'm sorry but I don't find the crab analogy very respectful.

Most women who advocate for natural birth approaches are extremely ready to support - well, natural birth. It's only after they have a "failed" birth/c-section/find they need one for whatever reason/decide to induce/and so on that they discover how hollow the support is for their new choices. (ETA: And experiences.) They are not generally fooled by the medical establishment into thinking they are being judged - they are judged, their stories questioned, and so on.

Women who are, for example, here on MDC talking about it do not generally just turn into advocates for 40% c-section rates. And yet they have shared - do some searches on past threads - how little support they have felt. That doesn't come from nowhere.
I don't think it comes from nowhere, either. As I've said many times, it comes from the system that pits women against one another. Now, that does not absolve us of the responsibility not to be its willing conduits. Quite the contrary-- it means instead that we all must take a step back and see how we are perpetuating the same injuries on one another. ALL of us.

Although fairly uncommon, I do see NCB-supporters who say things like, "Women who end up with XYZ (terrible, unwarranted consequence of medicalized birth-- not just any C/S, but some 4th degree episiotomy because the OB was impatient or some such) deserve what they get! It's their own fault for not doing the research like I did." It shocks and disgusts me and they get an earful from me every time. The judgment, the selfishness and the downright arrogance are completely intolerable, IMO. And I'm pretty sure I need not list similarly disrespectful examples of "mainstream" mamas who seem full of schadenfreude when a woman who attempts a natural birth ends up with some trauma.

But going back to your comment... I think suspicion of interventions is rational, given their extreme overuse and strong link to a misogynist (racist, classist, etc.) culture. But you're absolutely right-- and I hope I have been clear-- that suspicion of women who have them/are subjected to them/choose them is unproductive in the extreme. And suspicion of all interventions, all of the time, is highly IRrational.

As was stated earlier, I would like to see a culture of support for EVIDENCE-BASED care and respected/empowered mothers. I am thrilled that C/S exist and that C/S techniques continue to be improved. I am similarly thrilled that most medical interventions exist and can be used when necessary in birth. My problem is with their overuse, and all that comes with that.

However, I think I have been misread, or else I have miscommunicated. Just because "the system" is at fault does not mean that we cannot ask each other for specific types of support per this thread-- that we cannot take responsibility for our place in the system. I simply feel it's unproductive to lay blame at the feet of each other as if we, as women-- as mothers and mothers-to-be-- hold the primary responsibility for the state of birth and support for birthing women (or lack thereof).

By which I mean, for example... (And this is not anything you don't know-- just writing it out to clarify my own thoughts...)

The reason for the "systematic suspicion of C/S" within the "NCB community" is not women's personal irrationality or cliquishness or meanness or selfishness, and if they just got over it, they'd be able to support C/S mamas as they should. The reason is A) that the medical community has given us all good reason to be suspicious of C/S in general and B) the larger sexist society has pitted women in competition with each other. So the solution is not to "stop being jerks" or "stop being suspicious" (of the overuse of interventions) it's to A) attack the system and B) do our best to reframe women's issues as a collective struggle, wherein a rising tide lifts all ships.

As I said before, I believe the same things that will lead to more respectful C/S will lead to less of them (overall). Win-win-win.
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#103 of 111 Old 10-16-2010, 09:51 AM
 
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The reason for the "systematic suspicion of C/S" within the "NCB community" is not women's personal irrationality or cliquishness or meanness or selfishness, and if they just got over it, they'd be able to support C/S mamas as they should. The reason is A) that the medical community has given us all good reason to be suspicious of C/S in general and B) the larger sexist society has pitted women in competition with each other. So the solution is not to "stop being jerks" or "stop being suspicious" (of the overuse of interventions) it's to A) attack the system and B) do our best to reframe women's issues as a collective struggle, wherein a rising tide lifts all ships.

As I said before, I believe the same things that will lead to more respectful C/S will lead to less of them (overall). Win-win-win.
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#104 of 111 Old 10-16-2010, 11:48 AM
 
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If you're objecting to generalizations then stop generalizing the "natural childbirth community" negatively. This has turned into such a "Us and them" discussion, there seems to be a whole lot of bitterness with nothing constructive happening. What exactly are you suggesting the solution is, never have threads like this? Or is it just because it was started by someone who didn't have a c-section? Do you have specific suggestions for better wording?

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I am not just talking about this thread. I am talking about the natural childbirth community as a whole and the the whole "you are broken if you have a c/s" mentality. I have seen it damage more than one mother and MORE often than a c/s itself!

There are many of us who beg to differ that our c/s's WERE respectful. There's no need to heap pity on the c/s moms is our point. NOW in the cases of severe trauma like your own that is different. But definitely NOT The norm as the natural birth community leads moms to believe, there's no reason for it!

Surgery sucks period. It's traumatic. We don't need to be victimized further though when the REAL problem lies with the insurance companies and hospital protocols.

The objection in to the thread is the wording and generalizations. Especially coming from those who haven't had sections. Kind of offensive if you ask me but that's just me. We definitely don't have the same feelings on this! I Just find the NFL community not the place to get support from though in terms of c/s. (Sadly)

Christian SAHM & birth doula.
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#105 of 111 Old 10-16-2010, 01:21 PM
 
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The reason for the "systematic suspicion of C/S" within the "NCB community" is not women's personal irrationality or cliquishness or meanness or selfishness, and if they just got over it, they'd be able to support C/S mamas as they should. The reason is A) that the medical community has given us all good reason to be suspicious of C/S in general and B) the larger sexist society has pitted women in competition with each other. So the solution is not to "stop being jerks" or "stop being suspicious" (of the overuse of interventions) it's to A) attack the system and B) do our best to reframe women's issues as a collective struggle, wherein a rising tide lifts all ships.

As I said before, I believe the same things that will lead to more respectful C/S will lead to less of them (overall). Win-win-win.
Perhaps not, but I think that when women challenge post c/s women on their experience and choice they are behaving disrespectfully. I also hate the way people pick at women who post on their Facebooks about planned c-sections (a reasonably recent thread on this forum) and so on and so forth.

I'm just not going to change my mind that women CAN be more respectful even while seeking their goals.

I also keep saying this: The NCB community loses my support because of that kind of thing. I can no longer wholeheartedly recommend to friends that they look for doulas or even come here to read up on the things because I don't believe they will be, in the end, supported if things go wrong - and that is when they will need the support.

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#106 of 111 Old 10-16-2010, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just to clarify, when I say "humanized" with regards to any birth, vaginal or caesarean, what I am trying to describe is a birth that is centered on the human realities in birth, primarily supporting the mother and child as they get to meet eachother face to face for the first time, only deviating from that as primary focus when there is a clear medical reason to do so. Focusing on excessive bleeding when that is an issue? Absolutely appropriate. Keeping a healthy infant out of the mother's line of sight for the convenience of the staff? Not compassionate or humane to me.

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#107 of 111 Old 10-16-2010, 01:32 PM
 
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If you're objecting to generalizations then stop generalizing the "natural childbirth community" negatively. This has turned into such a "Us and them" discussion, there seems to be a whole lot of bitterness with nothing constructive happening. What exactly are you suggesting the solution is, never have threads like this? Or is it just because it was started by someone who didn't have a c-section? Do you have specific suggestions for better wording?
**NM!** falling on deaf ears here.

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#108 of 111 Old 10-16-2010, 04:02 PM
 
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Perhaps not, but I think that when women challenge post c/s women on their experience and choice they are behaving disrespectfully. I also hate the way people pick at women who post on their Facebooks about planned c-sections (a reasonably recent thread on this forum) and so on and so forth.

I'm just not going to change my mind that women CAN be more respectful even while seeking their goals.

I also keep saying this: The NCB community loses my support because of that kind of thing. I can no longer wholeheartedly recommend to friends that they look for doulas or even come here to read up on the things because I don't believe they will be, in the end, supported if things go wrong - and that is when they will need the support.
Well, I am very, truly and deeply sorry to hear that, but I want to be as clear as crystal if I haven't been up to this point.

1) I, TOO, think that when women challenge post c/s women on their experience and choice they are behaving disrespectfully.

and

2) I'm ALSO not going to change my mind that women can be more respectful even while seeking their goals. In fact, that was a huge part of my point.

I know this is getting into a whole "no true Scotsman" argument, but I have repeatedly reiterated that attacking and nitpicking other women in the way you describe has NO PLACE in the "NCB community." That has in fact been the crux of all I have posted-- that women nitpicking each others' choices and/or circumstances, particularly directly TO those women, is unproductive in the extreme.

I feel a bit that we are going in circles here, and I understand why, but... Really, as far as I am concerned, we should be attacking the myth of "too posh to push" just as we should be attacking myths surrounding homebirthing and VBAC'ing, etc. The way to fight a system that divides to conquer is not to further those divisions with judgment and ridicule and personal attacks, whether direct or subtle. And I kind of feel like I am hearing "Well, I'll stop judging when you stop judging," from some (perhaps not the majority, but enough) on BOTH sides, or all "sides'. (*sigh*) That does nothing for any of us.

And, by the way-- that was not my point, either. I didn't mean to imply that NCBers are excused from attacking other women because they are also under attack from "mainstream" folks. I only meant that there is a common cause for all of our problems, and if it's not the non-evidence-based and largely disrespectful, misogynist system, then the only other conclusion is that it's "women's nature" or some other such nonsense that I simply refuse to accept.

I do think it's sad that you no longer feel that you can endorse doulas or MDC... Although if it's only that you can no longer "wholeheartedly" endorse them, I can completely understand that. To be perfectly frank, I don't wholeheartedly endorse anything, really. When I refer friends here, for example, I always do so with a few caveats. But that's in part because nothing and no "movement" is a monolith. We are all simultaneously part of communities and individuals with our own minds to make up.

Personally, it's hard for me to imagine becoming truly disillusioned with, say, NCB-- regardless of what some who identify themselves as part of the "NCB community" say or do to me now or in the future. That's because NCB simply makes sense to me, from many perspectives-- scientific, psychosocial, anti-oppression, etc. There are tons of people within that "community" who have very different perspectives from my own. I am never going to see eye-to-eye with HBers who come from a libertarian or quiverfull perspective, or midwives who believe in the necessity of tons of herbal supplements, or people who genuinely believe that, say, women NEVER make babies too big for them to birth or that XYZ intervention is NEVER necessary. I don't even believe that very many OBs are primarily driven by a strong profit motive.

But shoot-- I think a healthy skepticism and challenging of any system or community from within is a Good Thing. Particularly good for a movement that is about tearing down old norms and stereotypes. I'm not into NCB because I think it's a bad thing to completely entrust our medical care to OBs and give up our own autonomy, but it's somehow a GOOD thing to do the same with midwives. (And I have sometimes seen that attitude here and elsewhere.) I'm "into" NCB because I think we should be empowered by the evidence to make our own decisions about our bodies and our babies with the guidance of respectful care providers who really know their stuff.

And that's all I have to say about that.
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#109 of 111 Old 10-16-2010, 04:11 PM
 
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I'm hearing this from more and more women here lately. I find it really interesting, because the NFL community is the only place I've ever found any support. Actually..."c-section support" were the Google search terms I used to find MDC in the first place.

I have found that the only way a woman will get true support for her C/S here at MDC is if she is traumatized, not accepting, of her C/S. Those of us who post here saying that our experience was a good one most of the time are either ignored or told that we must be mistaken or still not realizing what happened to us. Many women have asked for a C/S support forum and have been told that it is not possible here.
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#110 of 111 Old 10-16-2010, 04:24 PM
 
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I have found that the only way a woman will get true support for her C/S here at MDC is if she is traumatized, not accepting, of her C/S. Those of us who post here saying that our experience was a good one most of the time are either ignored or told that we must be mistaken or still not realizing what happened to us. Many women have asked for a C/S support forum and have been told that it is not possible here.

treehugger.gifAnd you who seek to know Me, know that the seeking and yearning will avail you not, unless you know the Mystery: for if that which you seek, you find not within yourself, you will never find it without.treehugger.gif

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#111 of 111 Old 10-16-2010, 04:38 PM
 
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I have found that the only way a woman will get true support for her C/S here at MDC is if she is traumatized, not accepting, of her C/S. Those of us who post here saying that our experience was a good one most of the time are either ignored or told that we must be mistaken or still not realizing what happened to us. Many women have asked for a C/S support forum and have been told that it is not possible here.
I don't know all the details of those interactions, but I would just like to add for the record that I find that very concerning, and at this time am in full support of such a board. I belong to another NCB board that requires interventive birth stories to be linked instead of directly posted, for example, and I think that's fine. After all, the board is for support of no/low-intervention birth. Requiring links is not meant to stigmatize interventive births, but not to normalize them on that board, nor to subject women to such stories who would rather not read them.

However, not allowing a support area for C/S moms... I can't really understand the reasoning behind that. If could conjecture as to why that seems to be the policy, but I'd rather not. There is a VBAC forum, of course, but... I mean, I can understand not wanting to endorse their overuse, but this is not like routine non-religious circumcision, where I can understand MDC calling it a closed case. (Whether one agrees or disagrees, I can see why MDC is unwilling to host a debate on the issue or support it. There are plenty of other places online where you can find people who do support routine infant circumcision.)

But C/S... Even 99.9% of NCB-supporters would agree that they are not inherently bad things. They're surgical procedures, and they can absolutely save lives and health. It's a fact that most women who have had them, even unnecessarily, believe they were necessary, but as long as justifying all C/S, generally, is not a part of it (and I'd hope not, being that this is MDC)... I mean... Women who have had C/S and are perfectly happy with those C/S still need support in recovery and whatnot.

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