Urologist says Circumcision needed - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 17 Old 03-14-2013, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Moms. My son is 5 and intact. For the past two months, he's suffered from phimosis. He put him on a steroid cream for a week to try and open it up a little. It literally couldn't open enough for me to see the opening with a naked eye... where as before, he could open it up. So with the steroid cream, it opened up a tiny bit and once I stopped using it, it closed again. Dr. is concerned that it isn't opening up even a little bit. He's worried about infections. I obviously want to do what's best for my son. I don't want to get him cut, otherwise I would have done so at birth, but I also don't want him to struggle with it through out his life which is what this urologist is basically telling me. Do I have any other options? 

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#2 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 12:53 AM
 
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I think you need a new urologist.  What he's suggesting isn't just unnecessary, but harmful.  There is nothing remotely unusual about the foreskin being fully attached at age five.  I was about ten before I started retracting, and I have no idea if my ten-year-old son can retract or not.

 

AAP – "Care for an Uncircumcised Penis"
"foreskin retraction should never be forced. Until the foreskin fully separates, do not try to pull it back. Forcing the foreskin to retract before it is ready can cause severe pain, bleeding, and tears in the skin."

 

Canadian Paediatric Society
"Keep your baby’s penis clean by gently washing the area during his bath. Do not try to pull back the foreskin. Usually, it is not fully retractable until a boy is 3 to 5 years old, or even until after puberty. Never force it."

 

RACP policy statement on male circumcision
"The foreskin requires no special care during infancy. It should be left alone. Attempts to forcibly retract it are painful, often injure the foreskin, and can lead to scarring and phimosis."

 

And this is the link for DOC's statement:
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/info/info-forcedretraction.html

 

Both the AAP and CPS suggest that early retraction is a lot more common than seems to be the case.  A Danish study (Øster) found that only 23% of boys could retract by the age of 6-7, and an average age of ten.  Why would anyone know or care though?  We don't go poking around in the genitals of small girls.

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#3 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 04:47 AM
 
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Yes, you have many other options. The first is to get a new doctor. There is a long list of foreskin friendly doctors at:

 

http://www.thewholenetwork.org/intact-friendly-doctors.html

 

Click on your state for names in your area.

 

Urologists make their money from doing circumcisions. They are quick to recommend circumcisions. 

 

If your child can urinate, the tip of his foreskin is not too narrow. If your child is not in pain, then he is NOT "suffering from phimosis", as you say.

 

http://genitalwholeness.wordpress.com/article/phimosis-2y9nanfagw8nr-11/

 

Most boys are born with narrow non-retractable foreskins. The average age at which the foreskin becomes retractable is now known to be 10.4 years. Your son is normal for his age. Your urologist is seeking to convert a normal condition in young boys into a disease that he can treat and make a profit.

 

Application of topical steroid ointment to relieve non-retractile foreskin takes several months, not one week. It appears from what you report that you are in the hands of a doctor who is seeking to make a quick buck doing an unnecessary circumcision on your son.

 

The narrow tip of the foreskin in childhood was put there by nature for a reason. Urine is normally a sterile substance. Every time a boy urinates his foreskin is flushed out and kept clean by sterile urine. The narrow tip closes to keep out contaminants and pathogens that could cause disease. The foreskin is protective and needs to be preserved.

 

Furthermore, circumcision causes sexual and emotional issues that are best avoided. Circumcision can cause surgical mishaps, hemorhage, infection, and even death. A boy died of hemorrhage after circumcision in Sacramento, California very recently. 

 

http://www.cirp.org/library/general/widdicombe/

 

I urge you to flee from this avaricious urologist.

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#4 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 06:12 AM
 
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If he is peeing without pain and the stream isn't spraying around the room, then he is OK. He has a normal penis. Stop messing with his junk! When you try and pull back is foreskin you are tearing skin, which then heals creating adhesions, which can become a problem. If your doctor examined your five-year-old daughter and says her hymen is still intact would you be so worried or considering taking her to an OB to have her hymen burst? 

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#5 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 07:02 AM
 
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phimosis is a NORMAL state for a 5yo. the doctor seems to be very ill-informed about normal development of intact penis.

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#6 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 07:14 AM
 
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Could it be yeast related? There have been a few times in the past where my son has had a yeast infection under his foreskin. This made urination painful. A few days of probiotics topically and internally and he was fine. It is something to try at the very least...

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#7 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for your replies. 

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#8 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 09:04 AM
 
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Phimosis is a word taken from Greek. Phimosis describes a condition of having a foreskin that does not retract. Phimosis is not a disease. Non-retractile foreskin is normal in a five-year-old boy. It is not normal in an adult male.

 

There are four things that cause phimosis or non-retractive foreskin.

 

1. a narrrow tip of the foreskin.

2. fusion of the inner foreskin with the undelying glans penis.

3. a short frenulum that does not permit complete retraction.

4. Edema of the foreskin, which is a buildup of fluid in the foreskin.

 

The first two are normal in children and vanish with increasing maturity and do not require treatment. They are not a threat to health.

 

The third cannot be diagnosed until the first two resolve with maturity. It may require a small operation to cut the frenulum.

 

The fourth may be indicative of some disease and should be investigated.

 

Contrary to the statements of this urologist, the tight foreskin helps to prevent infection because the narrow tip closes to keep out contaminants and pathogens. The foreskin should not be retracted until the child does it for himself.

 

 

One wonders why this young boy was taken to a urologist in the first place. You have not given a reason for him to be seeing a urologist. He apparently is quite healthy.

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#9 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 09:11 AM
 
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Doctors make money from mutilating the genitals of baby boys, and are frequently members of the religions that try to impose male genital mutilation, called circumcision, on all males.

They're highly biased.

 

The foreskin of a child is never supposed to be retracted until the individual himself does it, usually at about the age of 11, according to a recent Danish study.       The foreskin isn't inherently "dirty"
 and in fact is beneficial in helping to prevent diseases and infections.    

 

Premature, forced retraction of the foreskin by ignorant indificuals is a major cause of phimosis in adult life.      It scars the foreskin opening, and destroys the natural elasticity of the tissues.  

 

And the foreskin is not "extra skin," but a complex structure with specialized tissues and about 20,000 nerve endings.

 

It should be as illegal to mutilate the genitals of a male minor by circumcision as it is for females; males should have equal protection under the law.

 

 

Circumcision is a fraud and a hoax.

 

A foreskin is not a birth defect; it is a birthright.

 

ERIC

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#10 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Joe50 View Post

Phimosis is a word taken from Greek. Phimosis describes a condition of having a foreskin that does not retract. Phimosis is not a disease. Non-retractile foreskin is normal in a five-year-old boy. It is not normal in an adult male.

There are four things that cause phimosis or non-retractive foreskin.

1. a narrrow tip of the foreskin.
2. fusion of the inner foreskin with the undelying glans penis.
3. a short frenulum that does not permit complete retraction.
4. Edema of the foreskin, which is a buildup of fluid in the foreskin.

The first two are normal in children and vanish with increasing maturity and do not require treatment. They are not a threat to health.

The third cannot be diagnosed until the first two resolve with maturity. It may require a small operation to cut the frenulum.

The fourth may be indicative of some disease and should be investigated.

Contrary to the statements of this urologist, the tight foreskin helps to prevent infection because the narrow tip closes to keep out contaminants and pathogens. The foreskin should not be retracted until the child does it for himself.


One wonders why this young boy was taken to a urologist in the first place. You have not given a reason for him to be seeing a urologist. He apparently is quite healthy.
He was taken because it was red and he complained about it. Steroid cream did help with that. And since this is my first intact child, I was making sure he was ok. Because I love him and asked for guidance, which is why I came on here to seek advice since I'm not an expert.
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#11 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 11:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ladycates View Post


He was taken because it was red and he complained about it. Steroid cream did help with that. And since this is my first intact child, I was making sure he was ok. Because I love him and asked for guidance, which is why I came on here to seek advice since I'm not an expert.

Don't feel bad for taking him to the doc! (not that you said you did!) Just know that you are getting bad advice!

 

We as parents do what we need to to make sure our kids are ok and you were doing that. It's just a shame that we as parents can't get good advice (most of the time) for our intact sons. 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#12 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Don't feel bad for taking him to the doc! (not that you said you did!) Just know that you are getting bad advice!

 

We as parents do what we need to to make sure our kids are ok and you were doing that. It's just a shame that we as parents can't get good advice (most of the time) for our intact sons. 

Hi! Thanks. I do NOT feel bad at all. It just seemed like some of the replies on here were attempting to make me feel guilty for taking him to a Dr over it, which is silly because I came here with the advice from the Dr to help me make a decision. Sometimes people who are passionate about something tend to come across harsh. I wish they would try and be a little more understanding and helpful, rather than impatient and snarky. 

And I agree... most Drs don't give advice I would use but sometimes they're great :) 

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#13 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 11:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ladycates View Post
He was taken because it was red and he complained about it. Steroid cream did help with that. And since this is my first intact child, I was making sure he was ok. Because I love him and asked for guidance, which is why I came on here to seek advice since I'm not an expert.

Welcome to MDC!  I hope you will stick around.

 

Your son is lucky that you were informed when he was born & you left him intact. thumb.gif  Unfortunately, many medical professionals do not know about normal penis development because they don't likely have a whole penis themselves, had their child circ'd and/or this stuff isn't taught in medical school because they teach how to remove large portions of the penis, not care for whole ones. gloomy.gif

 

Of course you would do something if he's complaining aobut his penis & it's red!  You obviously care about him & were worried!  thumb.gif

 

I don't think anyone mentioned that steroid cream only works in those who have gone through puberty.  I haven't researched it myself to know why, but it is only meant for those who have gone through puberty.  

 

Has the redness gone away?  Is he still complaining about it?  If he can pee & those other things have gone away, then he may be okay now.  Like someone else said, it may be yeast.  If he's had antibiotics, or there are any other things that may make his internal and/or external flora off (abx during labor, not breastfed, your flora is off, etc.), then that could contribute to his issues.  PM me if you'd like more info about any of this.

 

Best wishes to you & your son! hug2.gif
 

Sus


Baby the babies while they're babies so they don't need babying for a lifetime.
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#14 of 17 Old 03-15-2013, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome to MDC!  I hope you will stick around.

 

Your son is lucky that you were informed when he was born & you left him intact. thumb.gif  Unfortunately, many medical professionals do not know about normal penis development because they don't likely have a whole penis themselves, had their child circ'd and/or this stuff isn't taught in medical school because they teach how to remove large portions of the penis, not care for whole ones. gloomy.gif

 

Of course you would do something if he's complaining aobut his penis & it's red!  You obviously care about him & were worried!  thumb.gif

 

I don't think anyone mentioned that steroid cream only works in those who have gone through puberty.  I haven't researched it myself to know why, but it is only meant for those who have gone through puberty.  

 

Has the redness gone away?  Is he still complaining about it?  If he can pee & those other things have gone away, then he may be okay now.  Like someone else said, it may be yeast.  If he's had antibiotics, or there are any other things that may make his internal and/or external flora off (abx during labor, not breastfed, your flora is off, etc.), then that could contribute to his issues.  PM me if you'd like more info about any of this.

 

Best wishes to you & your son! hug2.gif
 

Sus

Thank you, Sus!!!! Yes, redness has gone away. I am very glad I came on here and researched it before I cut him. My mommy gut kept telling me NOT to cut him but I needed some back up. :) I was on here very long ago for years and very active. Then having 2 kids kind of got in the way of me being on here. LOL :) I plan on sticking around again :) Thanks for being so kind and helpful. 

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#15 of 17 Old 03-16-2013, 08:16 AM
 
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I think some folks may have been concerned that you'd taken your son in to the doctor originally only for phimosis because that is what you said. You hadn't described any symptoms of illness yet. You left out the part about inflamed foreskin (posthitis), so some people were just trying to be helpful in telling you that "suffering from phimosis" is nonsense. Phimosis resolves on its own at some point usually before adolescence, but even if it doesn't in your son's case, it's easy for him to fix by himself with painless stretching. And some perspective on the infection risk from phimosis might help, phimosis really only raises the genital infection risk in boys to a fraction of that for girls. Unless his immune system were compromised or something, it shouldn't be difficult to prevent these sorts of infection.

 

I think steroid cream might be the worst possible treatment for this sort of infection because it disables the normal immune response. It would be a much better option to treat the infection if there is or were one. It could be bacterial but is as often fungal (yeast) especially on or near the surface of the body. Yeast can actually cause the skin to grow thicker and tighter too, so it is important to treat an infection promptly. Doctors have powerful oral drugs for fungus and some much weaker topicals (like women's topical yeast infection treatments), but you might find it's enough just to avoid milk, cream, and sweets, because all these make it more difficult for the immune system to overcome infection (of any sort) while promoting pathogen growth. Also being dehydrated makes one more susceptible to UTIs, so it pays to avoid that. And cranberry juice or some other form of cranberry with less sugar could be very helpful. There are other antifungal foods, but I think cranberry's probably the strongest.

 

Did your doctor collect urine or anything to test for yeast or bacteria?

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#16 of 17 Old 03-16-2013, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think some folks may have been concerned that you'd taken your son in to the doctor originally only for phimosis because that is what you said. You hadn't described any symptoms of illness yet. You left out the part about inflamed foreskin (posthitis), so s
ome people were just trying to be helpful in telling you that "suffering from phimosis" is nonsense. Phimosis resolves on its own at some point usually before adolescence, but even if it doesn't in your son's case, it's easy for him to fix by himself with painless stretching. And s
ome perspective on the infection risk from phimosis might help, p
himosis really only raises the genital infection risk in boys to a level equal to girls. Unless his immune system were compromised or something, it shouldn't be difficult to prevent these sorts of infection.


I think steroid cream must be the worst possible treatment for this sort of infection because it disables the normal immune response. It would be a much, much better option to treat the infection, which could be bacterial but is most often fungal (yeast). Yeast can actually cause the skin to grow thicker and tighter too, so it is important to treat promptly. Doctors have powerful oral drugs for fungus and some much weaker topicals (like women's topical yeast infection treatments), but you might find it's enough just to avoid milk, cream, and sweets, because all these make it more difficult for the immune system to overcome infection (of any sort). Also being dehydrated makes one more susceptible to UTIs, so it pays to avoid that. And 
cranberry juice or some other form of cranberry with less sugar could be very helpful. There are other antifungal foods, but I think cranberry's probably the strongest.


Did your doctor collect urine or anything to test for yeast or bacteria?

Thanks for all the info! Very helpful! I didn't consider yeast. Thank u! Yes, Dr did take urine, all was normal. smile.gif
I obviously didn't know this was normal which was why I went to the Dr & then with what he told me, I came here. People are too quick to jump down my throat about why I took him instead of saying "good job for researching all your options first"! Ya get more bees with honey. Helpful encouraging advice is taken greater than giving me crap about checking my sons penis.
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#17 of 17 Old 06-02-2013, 07:00 PM
 
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Hi Moms. My son is 5 and intact. For the past two months, he's suffered from phimosis. He put him on a steroid cream for a week to try and open it up a little. It literally couldn't open enough for me to see the opening with a naked eye... where as before, he could open it up. So with the steroid cream, it opened up a tiny bit and once I stopped using it, it closed again. Dr. is concerned that it isn't opening up even a little bit. He's worried about infections. I obviously want to do what's best for my son. I don't want to get him cut, otherwise I would have done so at birth, but I also don't want him to struggle with it through out his life which is what this urologist is basically telling me. Do I have any other options? 

You need to stay away from urologists as much as possible. Urologists make lots of money from doing circumcisions. This urologist obviously is setting up your son for an eventual circumci$ion and big buck$ for him.

 

Now for the facts:

 

1 Phimosis is a condition not a disease. The word simply denotes a foreskin that does not retract. A non-retractile foreskin is developmentally normal in childhood and adolescence. Non-retractile foreskin is NOT painful so I do not understand why you say your child "suffered from phimosis."

 

2. Your child is not ill. It is not clear why this normal child is being seen by a urologist in the first place.

 

3. Steroid cream is being used to treat a normal condition.

 

4. When left alone, the foreskin protects against infections, so this doctor is making something up to create needless and ungrounded fear in your mind.

 

5. Many boys have foreskins that do not become retractable until they are in mid-puberty.

 

6. As long as your child can pee, he is fine.

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