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7 year old son with "phimosis" - circumcision on December 18th

8K views 18 replies 9 participants last post by  joandsarah77 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,

We just had our 2nd appointment here at UVA with a doctor who was recommended by several local moms for Urology related medical problems.

First appointment was in October. Doc didn't try to retract, but sort of gently looked and confirmed that my son's foreskin is VERY tight. My son himself has tried to pull it back before and can't at all. There's only a tiny hole where pee comes out. He's never had any infections whatsoever and is a healthy child.

Doc recommended steroid cream 3x day and to meet again in a month which was on Monday.

Before steroid cream my son sometimes complained that it would hurt to pee. Not inside his body, but on the tip of his penis and it would sometimes be a bit red. We would use coconut oil and/or gentle salves and it would be okay again after a day of use. It would sometimes balloon and pee would spray everywhere. He has to sit and hold his penis down to NOT pee everywhere, but that has been resolved now after the month of steroid cream.

Doc now was adamant about circing my son. He wouldn't even explain other options to me. I asked about dorsal slit procedure or other options. Doc responds: "It's contraindicated in this case, because when he's a teenager he will not like to look differently in the locker room so we might as well do the full thing now and save him to have to go under a second time." Really?!

I stayed calm, but inside I was furious. My son's bio dad (we split in 2009) was there, too, and he readily and vehemently took the doc's side saying that "all my female friends make fun and talk badly about intact penises and that they just look wrong" and that "I don't want him (our son) to experience that". Really?! He also stated "I'm a man and I don't remember my circumcision, but I'm glad my mom did that." He had back then agreed to not circ our son - the whole "his body, his choice" made sense to him back then.

I'm at a loss of what to do. I understand that IF there's a real medical problem, circumcision may be indicated. I want to know more though before I can comfortably make a decision on my end and convey my stance. This doc lost all credibility with his statement of "looks".

They scheduled the circumcision for December 18th, BUT my ex and I need to agree on medical procedures or they don't happen (as per custody order - I also have full physical custody by the way, but the medical part is separate in there).

Please, if you have any advice to give, anecdotes to share, words of support, I'd be so grateful. Thank you!
 
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#2 · (Edited)
OMG - PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE CANCEL THAT APPOINTMENT. Your son is perfectly normal. The only problem he has is a doctor who is clueless about normal male genitalia. This is a uniquely North American issue where a great many doctors automatically jump to circumcision for any foreskin problem, be it real or perceived, (and in this case perceived) and place NO VALUE on a foreskin. Not only will your son experience trauma over the operation and loss of a body part but his sex life will be compromised for ever, as well as that of his partners. The foreskin is the most heavily innervated part of the male body. For a comparison to see what is lost in a circumcision please read: www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/Sorrells_2007/ . Also: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102 . There was a study done some years ago on the difference between circumcised and intact sex: www.sexasnatureintendedit.com . Be warned - it is VERY GRAPHIC.

Being unable to retract his foreskin is the normal situation in a 7 year old. The average age of achieving retraction, as observed in Denmark (a non circumcising culture) is 10 1/2. Many boys do not retract until well past puberty and a few men live their whole life quite happily without ever retracting their foreskin. See: www.cirp.org/library/normal/ , also a good video: http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/video/prepuce.html . A child's foreskin is supposed to be tight to keep contaminants out. There is a sphincter at the tip that dilates when he pees and closes again. In order to achieve retractability two things need to happen: The tip of the foreskin needs to loosen so that it can be rolled over the glans and the "adhesions" called synnechia that bond the inner foreskin need to release. These actions are triggered by hormones. Ballooning is perfectly normal and all it means is that the inner foreskin and glans have separated but the tip is still tight. If your son can pee a good stream, he is fine! See: http://www.drmomma.org/2011/06/ballooning-in-intact-child.html . A foreskin is self cleaning just like girl parts are, and rinsing with water under the foreskin is not required until well past puberty. In fact aggressive cleaning with soap destroys the normal balance of flora and gives rise to infections and then often a totally unwarranted circumcision.

Should your son grow up and actually have a real problem, there are many ways to resolve it without tissue loss. See: www.cirp.org/library/treatment/phimosis and www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2490/8/6 .

Your Ex's reaction is fairly typical and is based purely on emotion, not logic. He can't face the fact that something was done to his package that may have been detrimental. It is his defence. You just need to be confident in yourself and ignore his rant. Stay strong and protect your son. You might want to change doctors. There is a list of intact friendly doctors at www.savingsons.org ( I think! ). However, if you really like him for other reasons, just never discuss your son's penis with him again. There is no need to check him there anyway. The only reason in infancy is to ensure that the testicles have descended.

You might consider making an agreement with your Ex that should your son want to get a circumcision after age 18, then you would be willing to help pay for it. It is highly unlikely that he would feel that way as he would have experienced the value of his foreskin by then, and if he did, then it would have been his decision, not one forced on him by someone else.

Finally , there is a great post in the thread about regretting circumcision - I will have to search - but it was written be a Dad who faced great pressure from their doctor to circumcise his son. They left the baby intact, but the Dad figured that if circumcision was so great (as related by the doctor) then he would try it himself. Well, it wasn't and he regretted going down that road.

Good luck with this, and keep us posted. I am also going to try and send you a pm.
 
#4 ·
This sounds so very stressful for you. (((hugs))) mama.

This doctor needs re-education. The normal state of the male penis is phimosis until separation occurs. It doesn't surprise me that he doesn't know this as I recently watched a doctor interviewed on a YouTube video who regularly cuts babies say that the foreskin is not fused to the glans. It seems that the only doctors who know about normal male anatomy have learned on their own, not via medical school nor the textbooks (which, IIRC, something like 45/47 don't even talk about a foreskin let alone the entire purpose/form/function of a whole penis).

This urologist knows about normal male genitlas: http://www.adriennecarmack.com/ I follow her on Twitter and she is an intactivist. I imagine she's quite busy attempting to fix all the damage done by cutting doctors, but she might know a foreskin knowledgable doctor in your area. Additionally, www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org (DOC) may have some help for you.

I'd encourage you to contact this "doctor" to ask what other medical procedures does he perform or recommend to possibly prevent a child from being made fun of at some point in the future.

Lastly, it's either DOC or theWHOLEnetwork who will send information to these ethically challenged individuals. Not every parent will research, not every parent is able/willing to stand up to these people, etc. Please do the best you can to educate this person so that the next child he comes in contact with gets to keep all his normal, healthy body parts.

Best wishes,
Sus
 
#5 ·
Wow, that's awful. If everything is now functioning normally I would cancel the appt and drop the issue completely, if there's still an issue I would see another doctor.

Guys don't want to be caught looking at each other's equipment in the locker room, and if someone is uncouth enough to mention it anyway he'll get called out for invasion of privacy and accusations of having an interest. And for women, the first intact man I looked at would later be my husband. I'd been with a few guys before him. I didn't even know there was a difference though because at first I only saw his erect (hey we were amourous teens he got that way a lot). I'd heard of circ and what it was but when at attention the foreskin often moves aside anyhow. He mentioned it at some point and I had to pretend I knew all along (his story: mom was paying the birth bill out of pocket and saw no reason to have it done). It was never an issue at all, and circ probably would have harmed his health and our intimacy at least a little. Some women will find shallow things to insult and others will play along to be in the clic I guess. He doesn't want a girlfriend or wife like that anyway.
 
#6 ·
He is still way to young to worry about not being able to retract. Cancel the appt. for the circ and let nature take its course.

He was also to young for the steroid cream. It is only meant for use in older teens/adults with true phimosis. Because he was not ready to retract any loosening it cause would have reversed itself after it was no longer being used.

The rush to cut on little boys penises makes me so angry.
 
#7 ·
Hey everyone,

I just now got around to check on here again, I'm quite busy with my 8 week old these days as I'm sure you can imagine. :grin:

Thank you all SO much for taking the time to reply here and in PM. I really appreciate both the support and the additional reading material you all provided.

I also had a quick chat with my older son's bio dad 2 nights ago and briefly told him about my (then) additional findings. Surprisingly, he was very open to not doing the surgery and to look at the materials that I told him I'd send his way that will educate him that the little guy's penis is normal and nothing's wrong with it. I will do more reading/educating myself and forward stuff to him.

I'll keep you all updated, too! Thank you! :thumb
 
#8 ·
That is such good news !!

Incidentally, the www.drmomma.org website also has a list of intact friendly doctors, as does www.thewholenetwork.org .

I was also going to mention - and maybe you could it add to your arsenal - that this type of surgery can have a profound psychological impact that often is not apparent for years or even decades. See: www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/ . There are other articles at http://intactnews.org and http://womanuncensored.blogspot.org . This is one aspect of circumcision that is rarely mentioned.

I look forward to your update.:smile:
 
#10 ·
I'm a circumcised 20 year old. I'm in the midst of restoring. It is a lot of work. It's not comfortable. But a lifetime of no chaffing for 2 years of wearing this restoration device is much more comfortable in the long run. It's depressing to know that while my new foreskin will be very similar to the original and that some nerves do grow back, I will never get to experience certain specialized structures like the ridged band.

Please don't cut. It's the 21st century. Antibullying campaigns are in full force. And almost half of babies born are not mutilated nowadays anyway. He won't be made fun, at least not significantly.

I would love to have been bullied a little more in high school in exchange for a foreskin. DO NOT BUDGE! Please.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Another update

Hi all!

Here's another (somewhat) delayed update. With your help and my own research I had sent a very thorough email (including links, references, etc.) to his dad and I canceled the surgery appointment end of December.

We stopped the steroid cream and I'm keeping an eye on his penis. He can pee fine. The stream is a single stream. Penis does balloon while urinating which I now know is normal. My son was so relieved! Not just that he didn't have to go through this surgery and recovery, but also that the ballooning is normal. We've been using coconut oil and/or shea butter for the times when the tip felt a little tender.

My only concern now is that the doc/pedi who pulled back his foreskin when he was with his dad in the Summer last year did some damage. How can I tell? Can I tell at all?

Other than that I'm comfortable letting nature do her thing. And my son promised he will tell me if anything changes - i.e. it hurts when peeing, etc.

Thank you all once again!
 
#12 ·
Wonderful news! Yes your son is perfectly normal, peeing without pain is all a child needs to do. Small opening, ballooning all normal.

Does it look like scar tissue has formed? Even that can repair itself as it takes extensive damage for scar tissue to become an issue. Have him apply some Organic Virgin coconut oil to his penis each night before bed if there is any scaring.
 
#13 ·
Great news! - I am so happy for your son. I can imagine the huge relief that he is feeling. I highly doubt that one episode of forced retraction will have done any damage. There are many intact men from earlier decades when parents were instructed by their doctors to retract and clean under their son's foreskins from infancy who miraculously made it to adulthood without having to be circumcised because of a scarred, non retractile foreskin. Just a side note - some intact males do not become retractable until well past puberty. DW has a nephew who was 16 when it happened.

You did a great job protecting your son!
 
#14 ·
I just wanted to post here because I had a similar experience today. Took DS and DD to an appointment with a new doctor just because we needed a new CO form signed for school enrolment as we moved interstate. The GP decided to do a physical as well. Well, at DS's physical he discovered that DS (6) was not able to retract yet and the GP briefly tried while I insisted that DS has no issues, no problems, and there was no need to examine him further (I felt like jumping across the table and smacking his hand away). The doctor said DS needs steroid cream and a consult with a surgeon.

I argued with him that most boys aren't retractable until puberty and that of all the intact men on my side of the family (which was the norm) no one ever needed surgery for phimosis.

DS has never had a UTI. He doesn't seem to have any problems at all.

Is there an international list of intact friendly GPs/peds? Does no circ have reps in Australia? Obviously I won't be going back to this GP as he's a complete idiot.
 
#15 ·
The WHOLE Network may have a list of doctors there; I know they do for the states.

I'd encourage you to educate this doctor on his ignorance. There are likely parents out there who believe what he says & children who get cut because of it. If you'd like help finding resources to print to send/take, let me know. In the US, www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org sends packets to educate doctors who exhibit this behavior. Not sure if they'd send one overseas.

I hope your DS wasn't tramuatized. Bad ideas from doctors is one thing; being manhandled by one is a whole different ball game.

Best wishes,
Sus
 
#16 ·
Thanks, Sus.

DS seems fine. I asked him if he was in any pain from the exam and he said no. I asked if he was sure and he reiterated that he was okay. I watched the exam that occurred in that minute before I told him there was no need to continue and the Dr moved the skin around but did not retract it backwards as it's so tight he'd be unable to do so.

I really don't want to have anything to do with this Dr again. It was not just the exam with DS, but a couple of other reasons I won't go into here. He was originally meant as a means to an end for the letter to enrol the kids in school and not a candidate anyway for new family GP. I do understand your point about educating him, but honestly, his manner is such that I'd likely make little headway. I do have a friend who continues to use that practice (with a different GP) and she knows about what happened at our appointment. She can raise the red flag with parents of boys at the local school that is adjacent to that clinic.
 
#17 ·
You had that here? I've never had the misfortune to meet an idiot Dr here in Australia. Well not over that situation anyway, I've made the acquaintance of a few other quacks over other issues. You can print off literature but I don't know if it's the same as the packs they mail in the US. What was the name of the DR?
 
#18 ·
I'm not going to post publicly but if someone in Melbourne wants to know who to avoid, they can PM me. I was surprised too especially as someone I know recommended the practice (although she sees another physician). I'm not going back there for a number of reasons. The friend who still uses that particular practice has two sons and knows all about this encounter and has also told the other parents she knows about it, so in that circle anyway, there is a heads up.
 
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