"Signs of readiness?" - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 11 Old 08-03-2014, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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"Signs of readiness?"

I hear about one of the signs of readiness being the ability to know you have to pee. Is this just a "you'll know it when you see it" thing? DD is almost exactly 3 and I don't think she knows- like, bear-bummed she was standing outside, and like 1 second before she started peeing she sort of tipped her leg to the side, and as she was peeing said "I like to go pee outside." I can't tell by watching her (and we are at home with her almost every day). My DH is a bit more pushy/encouraging with potty learning, never negative, but it seems impossible to me as she nor we can't identify when she has to go (or maybe she's choosing not to? She is at a controlling age, much more so than 2).
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#2 of 11 Old 08-05-2014, 10:41 PM
 
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I personally don't believe in "readiness signs". I was potty trained by age 14 months, because my mom started setting me on the potty at 9 months. I figured out how to do it (including knowing when I needed to pee), because I had a chance to experience it. My DS (almost 2) is figuring out when he has to pee, because we put him in underwear, and he's peed on himself. Quite a bit at first. So he's made the connection for himself that, hmm, when I feel this particular sensation, pretty soon, I'm going to have pee running down my legs if I don't do anything about it. Luckily, he's at an age where he's very excited about "do it self!", and still likes Mommy and Daddy to be excited for him, so he hasn't been too resistant to learning. (Though there are still times when he throws a tantrum about being taken to the potty - one that virtually always ends once he sits down on it.) Since you say your daughter is at a more controlling phase of her life, it may not be quite so simple with her. But I think if you want her to learn, she can/will. I am okay with making decisions for my son, like we are done with diapers, or nursing, or running around during church services, and then helping him to adjust to the new expectations, even if he isn't terribly pleased with them. Some people feel differently about making those kinds of decisions for their children, so that is your call.

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#3 of 11 Old 08-07-2014, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, we've done (actually, more my DH) a lot of time in underwear with asking her if she needs to go, and that didn't go anywhere except making a lot of wet underwear. We also would have her try when she was willing to. So I figured we either could wait until she basically told us she was ready, or stop being half-assed, and so we just finished a solid 3 day potty learning extravaganza. Basically, naked DD, not leaving the house, and us with her little potty following her from room to room, asking her to sit every 30 min or if she did anything that could be remotely looking like a peepee dance. It was a positive experience in that she enjoyed sitting, enjoyed being naked, it was really quality time to do literally nothing but play and sit on the potty together, she didn't watch any TV. But it had zero impact on her ability to tell she was peeing. And she pees like really every 30 min. I didn't keep track but per DH she peed probably 10 times on the floor or in her chair, maybe 5 in the potty. So I right now I feel pretty confident that unless we literally do nothing but potty learning (like, no dishes, no yard work, no leaving the house, etc) we aren't going anywhere with this until she is more ready. She wasn't even controlling or toddler-y about it-- it just seems like physically the connection isn't there. I wasn't expecting to find this at 3. I wonder if the windows of opportunity are, like, 2 and 4.
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#4 of 11 Old 08-07-2014, 07:42 PM
 
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I'm glad it was at least a positive experience.

If it makes you feel any better, we did several days of just peeing everywhere (even WITH 30 minute timers!) before the day that it just suddenly stopped. So I'm glad I pushed forward. However, I obviously can't guarantee you the same experience! Like many other things with my kid, I may just be lucky. Plus, my son is really like this in many areas of development - it seems like he is making zero progress on something (crawling, walking, talking, etc), and then BAM - he just does it. Not all kids are like that. You know your DD best.

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#5 of 11 Old 08-08-2014, 03:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratchet View Post
I hear about one of the signs of readiness being the ability to know you have to pee. Is this just a "you'll know it when you see it" thing? DD is almost exactly 3 and I don't think she knows- like, bear-bummed she was standing outside, and like 1 second before she started peeing she sort of tipped her leg to the side, and as she was peeing said "I like to go pee outside." I can't tell by watching her (and we are at home with her almost every day). My DH is a bit more pushy/encouraging with potty learning, never negative, but it seems impossible to me as she nor we can't identify when she has to go (or maybe she's choosing not to? She is at a controlling age, much more so than 2).
Children don't need "signs of readiness" to potty learn. You can teach them to make that correlation and that is how much younger children are trained well before two. Naked time or underwear will help a child associate the feeling of needing to pee with the outcome.
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#6 of 11 Old 09-09-2014, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Curious how long the association might take? We've been at this several months now-no diaper/ no pants when possible, but since she pees almost every 30-60 min during some parts of the day, we can't always do that. Thus far she has never once asked to pee, but pees pretty reliably if we sit her on the toilet, so WE can keep her dry, with great effort. About 50% of the time it's predictable (if she's getting more frustrated, or about 10 min after having a drink) but she still seems surprised by it every time. The other day she asked "why are my pants wet? ( regular pants, worn without diapers) and I said "you peed" and she said "no I didn't" not being defiant or guilty, just not thinking that was why. Just, no connection.

I guess I'm looking for the concept behind training for her. Is it 'Pavlovian' in that by making all her pee episodes happen in the potty, I'm training her brain to only 'release' pee in a potty? Even if it's, oh, another year before she understands the sensation herself? She doesn't like having wet pants (and always announces to us "I peed" if she does so on the floor) but doesn't seem to have any control over that, and if were keeping her dry by having her sit on the potty so often, am I defeating that purpose?

I've read several books and articles etc and I feel like none of them address her issues, although she doesn't seem to me like an unusual kid.
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#7 of 11 Old 10-11-2014, 01:24 PM
 
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I wonder if she just thinks it's A-OK to pee anywhere and however she wants. What kid of social cues are you giving her to discourage wetting? Nothing harsh, but just something so she knows it's not ideal. The thing is, we are fighting instinct here. Of course she loves to pee outdoors! We are animals! We'd poop on the floor if left to our own devices with no social learning.

Freud's theories about why people are neurotic sexually have been largely discredited. I wonder if his theory that potty training is somehow traumatic is also nonsense? I think that out of fear of this, many of us aren't as firm about potty learning as we are about say, teaching not to shove other kids or whatever other behavior we want to discourage.

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#8 of 11 Old 10-16-2014, 07:11 PM
 
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I cant see the last reply to this . Or the others. Is that what everyone sees or doesn't see with this new website?

I'm thinking about how much harder it is to hold an older childs body near the desired receptacle/potty. Like someone said the child was tantruming then woukd go as soon as he got there or stop tantrum. And what this may point to meaning. My toddler will say she is going , going to go or went , all in different ways yet the same cue words . Though will resist other parts of being helped.

Sidenote-cynthia moon-where is our DDC?
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#9 of 11 Old 10-16-2014, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To discourage peeing wherever- we'll say something like "oh, that's too bad. Pee pee should go in the potty" in a sort of sad voice. If it's a mess on the floors she helps clean it up. And when she goes on the toilet, we'll high-5, or say something positive, and she's always very smiley. We also make positive comments about her pants being dry whenever we change into pj's or attempt the potty, or whatever.

So currently, I would say she is 'continent.' In that during the very structured time at ore-school, where I think she drinks very little for liquids, she is in underwear. She will pee when you sit her on the potty. But still never ever asks to go, and if you ask her, "do you have to go?" The answer is always no.

So it's almost like we're ec'ing. Or, not even. Were just making her sit every 1 hr. It's all very un satisfying. We as parents are trained but she has very little interest in it. And she's using the potty to be a bit manipulative. She's in a phase where she's fights all transitions, and usually we can finesse through it. But if she's sitting on the potty, she always needs more time or books or whatever. So we stuck with only using the adult potty, no accessories, and that took care of that (for pee), but as a result she's not pooping in the potty. If we have her on the mini, floor model type potty, with books, she'll sit long enough to poop (for one of the many attempts) but will drag every attempt into a 20 min long "no I have to poop" ordeal to continue sitting, Reading, etc whether she has to poop or not. So it's like, if she's happy in diapers, has no interest or possibly no ability to tell us when she has to go, and is using this as another opportunity to drag out a transition... Why am I even doing this? Sigh.
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#10 of 11 Old 10-16-2014, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And maybe were crappy parents or maybe she's just subtle, but she has no signals she has to pee (except for maybe being crankier) and poops at a different time each day.
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#11 of 11 Old 10-19-2014, 09:54 PM
 
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You know, hearing you say what IS working makes me think you are doing a great job already! I will be happy when we are where you are now .

I do still wonder if maybe she doesn't think it's all that bad to make a mess, and she just needs to see somehow that it's just not a good thing. Different kids need different levels of dissuading, so maybe she needs a firmer response. I've been told all my husband needed was a sideways look to stop what he was doing, but I needed much clearer boundaries and firmer rules to learn what was not OK. Still do :-p.

here we are, if you click on your username, you are taken to your profile. "Group subscriptions" are on the right side of the screen if you scroll down a bit. Our DDC is kind of dead since the new site transition. You should PM wrenmoon to be added to the Facebook group .

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