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Old 08-06-2014, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Damnit I'm out again :(

Not a good appt. u/s showed barely a fetal pole and no heartbeat when I should be 7w. I'm so sure of my dates there is no question. This is almost exactly what happened last year except I went in for an u/s when I started spotting. Same time frame. Doc says it's too early to say for certain but I'm sure. They want me back in 2 weeks. Unfortunately that's really close to the start of school and I'm a teacher and don't want to miss the first days of school so I'm really hoping for a smooth natural m/c in the next couple weeks.
This is loss #4 overall for us. Not sure if we will try again. Feeling old and I'd need the whole miscarriage workup.

On my chart it says "habitual aborter" which I am jaded enough to find funny.

Sorry ladies. I wish you all very very healthy and smooth pregnancies
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Old 08-06-2014, 02:05 PM
 
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Oh no, Sleepymama!!!!! I'm so sorry for your loss! Sending big hugs your way.

Wife to since '98; Homeschooling, just completed my doctorate & becoming crunchier by the day; Mom to DSs: 06/10,12/05, & 1/99 & 1 on the way (3/15)
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Old 08-06-2014, 03:05 PM
 
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Not a good appt. u/s showed barely a fetal pole and no heartbeat when I should be 7w. I'm so sure of my dates there is no question. This is almost exactly what happened last year except I went in for an u/s when I started spotting. Same time frame. Doc says it's too early to say for certain but I'm sure. They want me back in 2 weeks. Unfortunately that's really close to the start of school and I'm a teacher and don't want to miss the first days of school so I'm really hoping for a smooth natural m/c in the next couple weeks.
This is loss #4 overall for us. Not sure if we will try again. Feeling old and I'd need the whole miscarriage workup.

On my chart it says "habitual aborter" which I am jaded enough to find funny.

Sorry ladies. I wish you all very very healthy and smooth pregnancies
I am so sorry for your loss!!! That is devastating. I wish I could give you a hug. I don't know what to tell you that might help. We lost our first son three years ago, and still miss him terribly.

In an effort to give you hope, I'd like to tell you about a few friends of mine who have had multiple miscarriages and then succeeded at having healthy babies. Not to say that trying again is the right option for you, but just to show how crazy off-the-wall the reasons for miscarriage can be, so that if you do decide to try again, maybe one of these atypical solutions would be helpful in your case.

Friend #1 was in her late twenties and had already had two children and then suddenly couldn't carry a baby to term anymore. She had six early miscarriages before she finally figured out that after her second child was born she had developed a thyroid condition. It didn't work properly. Once she was on thyroid medication she carried to term, and now has three healthy girls. She was one of those lucky (to me) people who is super skinny and petite, and I guess they just didn't think to check her thyroid because the standard symptoms for thyroid trouble also correspond to the way you feel raising two toddlers (vague tiredness, etc.), so it didn't occur to her there could be another cause. I don't know how many doctors she tried or how much testing they did before discovering this, but from the six miscarriages, you can see it took a while.

Friend #2 had two children and then four miscarriages before they figured out that her blood clots way too easily, and that the miscarriages were due to clotting in the umbilical cord. So she took an aspirin every day for the next pregnancy and had a healthy baby. And you know that doctors tell pregnant women to avoid aspirin at all costs. The only way she figured it out was that finally she got to thinking about the fact that her heartburn was really bad for the first two pregnancies and she had been taking Alka-Seltzer every day, which she didn't know at the time had aspirin in it, but for the other pregnancies she didn't have the heartburn, and so didn't get the aspirin she needed to prevent the clotting of her blood. She figured it out herself. I don't know how supportive her doctors were of her trying this, but she was right.

Friend #3 was finally able to conceive and carry a child at the age of 41 after having one of her ovaries removed because the whole ovary had basically turned into a cyst. Theory here is that her hormones were off and finally she got old enough that her hormones changed, or the removal of the one ovary changed her hormones enough that she was able to conceive and carry a child. They didn't have the money for expensive fertility treatments, so we may never know for sure, but they'd been trying for 20 years to have children. In addition, during this time, they had been foster parents and had almost been able to adopt several times but the birth parents or family involved backed out of the adoption. Talk about hard.

Friend #4 had 10 miscarriages over eight years for no known cause, then finally carried a son to almost full term. For a variety of reasons, she delivered via C-section. When they went in to get the baby they discovered that her uterus was formed wrong, and had basically a wall of tissue down the middle of it, which had prevented all previous pregnancies from progressing. Her son's healthy survival to term was a miracle. During the C-section, the doctors removed all the extra tissue and she went on to have six healthy children in rapid succession. But the doctors never knew what her problem was until during the C-section they saw it for themselves.

It really can get better. I hope it gets better soon for you. I wish you all the best in dealing with your loss. I don't know if you're religious or not, but I found that the support of my husband and lots of personal prayer and revelation from God was the most helpful way for me to process the loss of our son. And some good professional counseling really helped too. I still miss our son terribly, but I am at peace about where he is and I know he's doing well. I wish you well on your journey to find that same comfort and peace about your little ones, and I wish you well in your quest for children.
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Old 08-06-2014, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow those are some amazing stories! I have been trying to get tested for many things but have been given the brush off. Thyroid not clinically low (enough). Not enough miscarriages in a row to test. It's infuriating. I will be more insistent now if we decide to keep trying.

I have two older kids (11 and 8) and only one of them is healthy. My 11 yo also has a severe congenital heart defect and autism and you would think that would be enough cause to run some tests but no. He has had genetic testing and doesn't have any known issues. No known ones anyway. My losses have been in between the kids (2) and then these two in the last year. I'm old now though so I'm sure I'm going to get that explanation too (40 in Dec.)
They wouldn't test my progesterone this time--said it doesn't make a difference to supplement--and I'm not sure that was the right course of action either. I had low P with my daughter (the 8 yo) and supplemented for the first 10 weeks and she came out perfectly healthy. I don't think it hurts to supplement so I don't get why they were so anti.
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Old 08-06-2014, 03:59 PM
 
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Oh no! I am so sorry you are going through this again!

Mama to my angel baby Drew (9/22/06), Alexia (10/26/11) , and hoping for a in 3/2015!!

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Old 08-06-2014, 07:03 PM
 
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Oh no, sleepymama. You've been such a trooper with the surgery and the move. I'm hugging you from afar. And you're still my mama hero.
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:43 PM
 
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I'd need the whole miscarriage workup.
Many hugs @Sleepymama . That is awful and so sad. I am so glad I got the recurrent early loss workup; I hope you will be able to as well. With the information I got, I'll actually be able to lead a healthier life after my childbearing years as well. It might be worth it.

And the "habitual aborter" - I'm glad you have a sense of humor about that! I would have stream coming out of my ears!!

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Old 08-07-2014, 06:04 AM
 
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I'm so sorry for your loss, sleepymama

I had a really similar experience yesterday. Went in for an u/s, no heartbeat on transabdominal and measuring small. They did a transvaginal and no heartbeat. My OB said that I'm welcome to wait a week and do another u/s, but that the embryo is measuring large enough that there really should be a heartbeat. So I'm going in for another D&E next week. I did the last miscarriage at home and it was just awful, and I had to go to the ER due to the pain.

This is my third loss, so we're just starting all the fancy bloodwork and tests. Ugh.

Mother to an adorable girl born May 2012, dealing with recurrent miscarriage.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:50 AM
 
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NO! I am so sorry for you it hurts.
and for you, too @MakeItSew

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Old 08-07-2014, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh I'm so sorry makeitsew
I did my last m/c at home too and took some old dentist prescribed Vicodin because yeah it hurt a lot.
I don't want to wait and wait and with the start of school coming soon, I need this to be over with. I think I'm going to ask them for some bloodwork to see if hcg is dropping and maybe just a week before another u/s before we do something. I had a D&C with my first mc but that was after a failed cytotec that was a horrible experience. Never doing that again! That mc was really late though-11 weeks. So probably should have just done the D&C to begin with. This one is small enough it probably wouldn't be that bad at home but I just can't sit around waiting.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:07 AM
 
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Wow those are some amazing stories! I have been trying to get tested for many things but have been given the brush off. Thyroid not clinically low (enough). Not enough miscarriages in a row to test. It's infuriating. I will be more insistent now if we decide to keep trying.
We were in a similar boat for testing. Because I'm young (under 30), and have one child already, insurance wouldn't approve testing until the 3rd consecutive m/c and it's way too expensive to do out of pocket.

The other reason I want a D&E is so they can do genetic testing on the fetus. I am in massive LEAVE NO STONE UNTURNED mode. I'm self employed and pay out the ass for insurance, so it's time for insurance to step it up! No more hippie "wait and see," it is time for some science. All the science.

Mother to an adorable girl born May 2012, dealing with recurrent miscarriage.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We were in a similar boat for testing. Because I'm young (under 30), and have one child already, insurance wouldn't approve testing until the 3rd consecutive m/c and it's way too expensive to do out of pocket.

The other reason I want a D&E is so they can do genetic testing on the fetus. I am in massive LEAVE NO STONE UNTURNED mode. I'm self employed and pay out the ass for insurance, so it's time for insurance to step it up! No more hippie "wait and see," it is time for some science. All the science.
Me too. I want chromosomal testing on this one. I am not sure I can "save" enough to test if I mc at home.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:28 AM
 
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Me too. I want chromosomal testing on this one. I am not sure I can "save" enough to test if I mc at home.
Even if you could, would you want to? I thought about it with the last one but when I saw that placenta chilling on the shower floor I was like "oh hell no." I just stood there yelling until my husband came to help. Not my bravest moment.

Mother to an adorable girl born May 2012, dealing with recurrent miscarriage.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Even if you could, would you want to? I thought about it with the last one but when I saw that placenta chilling on the shower floor I was like "oh hell no." I just stood there yelling until my husband came to help. Not my bravest moment.
Yeah I had a middle of the night "just flush" moment. It's a pretty awful experience.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:35 AM
 
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I never saw the baby but I had a lovely moment when I went into the OB office and peed in a cup to take the pregnancy test (I went in during my normal scheduled 8 week appointment since the timing coincided with my M/C). The placenta fell into the cup when I was peeing. I handed it over, like, um, here you go.... Is this enough evidence that I was pregnant and am now not pregnant? Yep.

One thing that worked really well in our insurance situation, is that our reproductive specialist was willing to give us possible ICD9 (diagnostic) codes that they could use, as well as the procedure code (seriously having pregnancy brain because I see this abbreviation every day at work). I then called my insurance company and asked them if this code was covered, that code was covered, etc. (because they don't cover infertility but they do cover certain reproductive issues). Once I talked to the insurance company I called the MD office back and told them what codes I wanted them to use for billing.

Of course, not every office is going to be so accommodating but it saved us many thousands of dollars. We got all the diagnostic stuff covered and now we met our deductible and the insurance company is paying 100% of EVERYTHING till the end of the year. Which is amazing. My $850 a month Lovenox, $250 a month progesterone, and any office visits, none of them are our responsibility-- we can go nuts and go to the doctor over a scratch. Of course we went into this process knowing that we had enough in our HSA and we would have to, as we say, "blow out the deductible," but now we are home free.

Might be worth checking into whether you can get the diagnostic and procedure codes... Like I said, I think we lucked out with a very accommodating doctors office, and because I work peripherally in this field I had an inkling of what to do, but some of them might work with you...

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Old 08-07-2014, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, DS's heart surgery just blew the heck out of our deductible so might as well make the most of the calendar year. Bring on the expensive tests!!
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:32 AM
 
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Sending big HUGS your way! And stop saying 40 is old. I will be 40 in December - and refuse to think of myself as old. Mature maybe. Wise, okay. Old, no. I'm a young hip mama.

I know that OBs stigmatize the heck out of anyone who is over 35 and having a baby, but I don't subscribe to that thinking. That post up above with all the successful pregnancy stories has great vibes. It's still possible if you want it! My last baby I was 37. This one, I will be 40 - and fabulous! Haha!

Homeschooling, homebirthing mom to 3 (10, 5 and 2). Fourth expected in late March (yeah right, I carry forever). Probably mid-April!
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:09 PM
 
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Well, DS's heart surgery just blew the heck out of our deductible so might as well make the most of the calendar year. Bring on the expensive tests!!
Sleepymama,

One more thing you might consider, I remembered this last night as I was thinking about all the crazy miscarriage causes I know about. You might try documenting your cycle a few times - temperature, luteal phase, etc., everything. There's books out there that tell you how to do it in a very precise manner. I remember reading or hearing about a woman (can't remember which) whose luteal phase was one day too short. Her story stuck in my mind because of the total irony of it, that this one simple thing had had such a profound impact on her life for years. She had been to doctor after doctor, done lots of testing, and finally figured out herself why she couldn't conceive/carry to term by documenting very precisely what was going on with her cycle. She took her charts to the doctor, they agreed to give her the required hormones to lengthen that phase, and her next pregnancy went perfectly. Documenting your cycle is something you can do yourself at home without horribly expensive tests, so it might be a good place to start, and if it tells you something useful it might help you avoid years of unproductive doctor's visits/testing.

Here's a link to the Wikipedia page for "luteal phase". It's Wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt of course, but it should be accurate enough to illustrate in detail what I'm talking about. I'm not an OB or an RN, so I'd hate to try and explain it myself and get it wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luteal_phase

Best of luck!!!
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:46 PM
 
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Well, DS's heart surgery just blew the heck out of our deductible so might as well make the most of the calendar year. Bring on the expensive tests!!
Ha. ORDER EVERY TEST.
So far I know I'm getting antiphospholipid (blood clotting) workup and meeting with a genetic counselor to see if my husband and I are terribly matched (karotype testing?). If all that comes up negative then we'll probably get an hcg to see if my uterus has something weird going on. I joked that DD1 torched the place on her way out.

Mother to an adorable girl born May 2012, dealing with recurrent miscarriage.
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Old 08-07-2014, 04:42 PM
 
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Torched the place... Oh my gosh. I just got a mental image. Holy smokes.

The HCG is actually really neat. I was SO worried about it because the citizens of the internet all talked about how awful and painful it was, but it wasn't painful at all and it was so neat to see the dye fill up my tubes, which are actually very twisty loopy long things, nothing like what you see in 7th grade health class diagrams.

Since my issue is MTHFR I am going to say- many people will come up with one mutation (it's very common and barely affects most people)- my issue is that I have two mutations (not as common, and pretty much guaranteed to give you problems holding onto a pregnancy). This should be one of the things they check for on the antiphospholipid test. Most doctors will say that having one mutation won't cause problems, but it can, and you can find out if you are having problems with a heterozygous MTHFR mutation through other blood tests. Just an idea if you start going down that path, and because like 50% of people are heterozygous (one mutation) for MTHFR, you have a 50/50 chance of seeing this come up on your blood work. Homocystine levels are usually how they check to see if the common mutation is making an impact but this guy claims there are other things to check: http://mthfr.net/mthfr-mutations-are...ne/2011/09/20/

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Old 08-07-2014, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm wondering also now whether my DS has MTHFR too since it's linked to autism. And apparently the C variant also linked to heart defects.

I'm really overweight too and that is always a topic of conversation. But I don't weigh that much more now (25lbs, not a lot on me) than when I got pregnant with DS and about the same as DD.

I do chart and have a 12 day luteal phase. I have short cycles though--24-26 days. After my 1st mc my luteal went down to 8-9 days and I definitely think that is why I had so much trouble conceiving again. I actually have gotten pregnant on the first try several times (I hate saying that since so many struggle) but this tells me my cycles and my uterus are fine. And all of my losses suggest endocrine and/or antibody and/or chromosomal-genetic issues.

However my mom has RPL--3 before me. So I personally think we have some MTHFR in the fam.

You are brave viddy. I'm not sure I could shoot myself up with lovenox for 9 months . I'm still feeling like maybe this is a sign we should be happy with our 2. I do really want to know though and will do the testing anyway and then make a final decision based on that.

Now, where did I pack my stash of cloth pads???? I packed them to move thinking I wouldn't need then for a while. We are in the new house and I have no idea where they are!!!
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Old 08-07-2014, 05:59 PM
 
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If you find you have MTHFR mutations (your son as well), you can start taking methylated foliate supplements and it would probably make a really nice positive impact in your health.

My biggest problem with Lovenox is the big study that just came out in July that shows that it doesn't contribute to a positive outcome. http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...y-create-some/

I am still taking it because I am now more than a week past my longest lasting pregnancy and I just don't want to mess with it. But once I switch over to my regular OB at 12 weeks- he is very good about practicing evidence based medicine and I will check in about whether to continue Lovenox, or to just rely on the low-dose aspirin. Maybe if you find a blood clotting disorder, Lovenox won't be proscribed for pregnant ladies anymore and you won't have to do anything but take aspirin

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Old 08-08-2014, 10:09 PM
 
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I'm so sorry for all that you ladies are going through. Sending positive vibes to you!!

Wife to since '98; Homeschooling, just completed my doctorate & becoming crunchier by the day; Mom to DSs: 06/10,12/05, & 1/99 & 1 on the way (3/15)
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Old 08-10-2014, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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@teamviddy will you have to continue the lovenox for the whole pregnancy? Is there a time when the major danger is over or not?

I just got my u/s report online and I compared it with last year's loss. They are identical. Last year I spotted at 8w and went in for u/s. Showed baby stopped growing at 5w6d. This time--exactly the same. 5w6d. They were even the same size-2.9mm. I'm 7w5d and expecting to spot in a couple days. Been losing symptoms too finally. Same as last year. Cannot be a coincidence.
We are definitely getting this embryo tested. I have to know if it's bad eggs or my body rejecting it.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:10 PM
 
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I am sorry for your loss. I'm glad you're looking into what's going on.

I have MTHFR here too. But with my variety I only have to take a high dose folate and baby aspirin. This pregnancy is still pretty much an experiment to see if I can do it without lovenox but it's totally different so far. I've had spotting and bleeding with all of my previous 7 pregnancies. Number 4 had a cleft lip and palate which we now know was probably related, number 5 I lost at 15 weeks, number 6 I lost at 10 weeks and number 7 I lost at 5 weeks. I'm now 8 weeks with no bleeding! And none of the terrible cramping and pain I had with those pregnancies. I still have a really big, scary sch but I have a lot of hope that it may be healing since I'm not spotting. It's worth lookin into the thrombophilias. If the vitamin and aspirin fix works for me that will be pretty worth it! I hope you have a rainbow ahead if you choose to try. I truly know how painful that is to even think about right now though. Blessings, mama.
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Old 08-10-2014, 03:30 PM
 
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This is both for @Sleepymama and @willsmomm : My fertility specialist is saying that I will be taking Lovenox for the whole pregnancy, until two weeks before I am induced, and will start on Heparin. The induction thing is one issue that I will talk to my regular OB about, but besides the point in this situation. The other big thing I will be bringing to my regular OB is: there was a big study that just came out in July- the first real research that was done into Heparin/low molecular weight Heparin as a therapy/treatment for pregnant women with blood clotting disorders. It's been used for 20 years but there hasn't been much research done (my MD mentioned that it is hard to find pregnant women who are willing to take the risk and not do the treatment).

They found that Heparin (I am 90% sure that they were talking about Lovenox when they talked about low molecular weight Heparin), has NO IMPACT on pregnancy outcome vs. placebo injections. http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...y-create-some/

We hired a prenatal doula since this pregnancy is a huge thing for us, and I am still at higher risk for losing it, and we wanted the emotional support. So I asked the doula about this study. She recommended asking my regular OB about it when I "graduate" in a few weeks. He is apparently very into evidence based medicine and might take this study seriously. I will strongly consider just sticking with the vitamins and low-dose aspirin, as long as my regular OB supports that.

So... The short answer to your question is "I don't know."

I think it's a good idea to get the embryo tested. That's such a strange coincidence; there must be something to it.

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Old 08-10-2014, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh wow that is a ton of money and suffering for no benefit. That's not a huge sample size but it does seem indicative. I hope for your sake you don't have to continue and now that you're almost out of the first trimester the risk is much lower for you.

If I have a clotting disorder I don't really know how to explain how I was able to carry 2 babies to term though.
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Old 08-10-2014, 06:30 PM
 
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That's very interesting, and disconcerting that so many women are getting treatment that has been so poorly studied. I understand why- but it's still disconcerting. I'd be interested to know what the results of the animal studies were.

Wife to since '98; Homeschooling, just completed my doctorate & becoming crunchier by the day; Mom to DSs: 06/10,12/05, & 1/99 & 1 on the way (3/15)
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Old 08-10-2014, 10:19 PM
 
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@Sleepymama , apparently I am textbook for my particular MTHFR mutation. I had three healthy, normal babies with slightly increasingly complicated first trimesters. A little more cramping and bleeding each time. Pregnancy 4 there was a lot of cramping and bleeding and he had the cleft. Then I lost on in the second tri, first tri and earlier first tri. See how the issues increase in severity each time? That is theoretically because I was becoming increasingly depleted in folate over time. Also, I was taking lots of folic acid over this time which blocks folate absorption. I'm not saying that you necessarily have the same issue as me. That's just how it's a possibility. There are several other similar conditions, I just know the most about the one I have. It is really nice to have something to go on.
@teamviddy , very interesting!
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willsmomm View Post
@Sleepymama , apparently I am textbook for my particular MTHFR mutation. I had three healthy, normal babies with slightly increasingly complicated first trimesters. A little more cramping and bleeding each time. Pregnancy 4 there was a lot of cramping and bleeding and he had the cleft. Then I lost on in the second tri, first tri and earlier first tri. See how the issues increase in severity each time? That is theoretically because I was becoming increasingly depleted in folate over time. Also, I was taking lots of folic acid over this time which blocks folate absorption. I'm not saying that you necessarily have the same issue as me. That's just how it's a possibility. There are several other similar conditions, I just know the most about the one I have. It is really nice to have something to go on.
@teamviddy , very interesting!

Hmm. My first pregnancy was the heart defect. It was an easy pregnancy, didn't take long to conceive, not diagnosed in utero so a big shock. No bleeding, some minor symptoms, no major issues at all. I always blamed environmental factors--we lived in a very polluted area at the time. I don't think I took prenatals before conceiving though, not that that would matter if it's processing folic acid that is the problem.

Pregnancy #2 was the 11 week loss (stopped growing at 9-10 weeks which is a pretty late 1st tri loss. Probably not genetic since the heart must have been beating for a while before the loss at that age). I never had that many symptoms with that pregnancy. I was still BFing DS and thought low progesterone was the problem at the time.

Pregnancy #3 was a CP a little before 5 weeks. That took about 6 months to conceive after the mc.
Pregnancy #4 was DD. I had made an appt with a RE and got a BFP the day before the appt so they tested and monitored me and I supplemented progesterone. No bleeding or cramping that I remember (progesterone probably helped) but I had awful morning sickness and blood pressure issues--which predated the pregnancy. No PIH or pre-e, just chronic HBP.

7 years pass.

#5 and #6 I had a ton of cramping the first couple of weeks. Way more than I remember with prior pregnancies. Blood pressure is now medicated. Both MMC lost ~6 weeks.

I have a call into the doc about getting this show on the road. No bleeding yet at all. My bloat is gone, breasts normal, not feeling pregnant anymore. POAS yesterday and it showed dark instantly. Not sure I expected otherwise.

That MTHFR website you posted teamviddy--it has my son's exact defect listed as a linked condition. We have tons of those conditions in the family. It's bizarre.
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