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Microbirth - Gut Health in Mother & Baby

1K views 26 replies 8 participants last post by  Wild Rose 
#1 ·
I just posted this in the general pregnancy forum - it's so interesting! Make sure you're eating lots of fermented foods and taking high quality probiotics, if necessary!

This article was really interesting about the affect of the expectant mother's gut bacteria on the baby's immune system and lifelong protection/susceptibility to disease.

I haven't watched the video yet, but the article didn't mention seeding the baby's gut after a c-section via a swab of vaginal fluid (which isn't talked about much anywhere...yet?)

Also talks about the importance of sufficient vitamin D during pregnancy.
 
#3 ·
That's the same link I posted above. :lol

Interesting that he recommends tanning beds for pregnant women. I knew that's his preference, after real sun, and before taking a D supp., but I didn't think he'd ever say that he'd recommend it for pregnant women... It's tempting! What I wouldn't give to feel some rays on my skin right now.... And I know I need it since my D was around 35 in November.
 
#5 ·
I wish they took vitamin D levels seriously here. I was feeling terrible in August and had my levels tested. They came back at 13 and my Dr. didn't even give me a prescription. I then showed my levels to my Gyno and he just shrugged and said it was normal!!

So I've had to figure out how to get decently high doses of D on my own. I've been taking about 2000iui since August. And I just upped myself to 3000iui.

At this point I'm just hoping I've gotten myself up to 20-25. I won't be seeing any sunshine until May probably. It's pretty grey through the winter and early spring here.
 
#7 ·
I just was reading over the human microbiome site and came across a study that says that the mothers mouth microbiome most similarly resembles that of the placenta- i.e. the placenta is getting its information and microbes from the mouth most significantly. I imagine that these are really early studies. I am hoping that this is why I am gagging every single time I brush my teeth and in the best scenario's, not throwing up. My oral regimen has been tossed out the door and my mouth feels like crap most of the time. I am taking this as a supportive sign! Here here to a healthy microbiome!
 
#8 ·
At my holistic dentist's office, every time you go in for a cleaning, they swab your mouth and put the saliva on a slide and you get to look at it under a microscope hooked up to a computer monitor.

It's pretty cool (and sometimes creepy!) to see what's in there. Mine has been good so far, thank goodness.

My best friend has noticed that when she's not eating a lot of fermented foods, her bad bacteria increases (you can see them swimming around!) and when she's good about eating ferments every day, her bad bacteria are near zero.

I imagine the health of the mouth (bacteria-wise - good and bad) is probably parallel to that of the gut. Don't you think? In the body as a whole, it seems improbable that one would have a healthy gut and unhealthy mouth. Maybe not, who knows. Interesting stuff they're discovering these days...

I figure eating a lot of dirt is a good thing. :)
 
#9 ·
At my holistic dentist's office, every time you go in for a cleaning, they swab your mouth and put the saliva on a slide and you get to look at it under a microscope hooked up to a computer monitor.
------

Metasequoia, your dentist sounds dreamy.

I have a kifir culture that has been backing up since MS took over my life.. I think I'll try gargling with it!
 
#13 ·
Thanks! I have been trying to take fermented cod liver oil, but the morning sickness has made it REALLY difficult. Will start trying again tomorrow!!
 
#14 ·
Watch the film. Loved it. Been taking my Garden of Life Raw Enzyme with tons of probiotics in it, drinking kombucha on a semi-regular basis, and of course taking my D3 (I live in WA state. Sunshine is basically non-existent here until May-Sept.).

My normal diet (pre-morning sickness) includes lots of homemade fermented sauerkraut (the simple Nourishing Traditions recipe is my favorite one), kimchi, pickled carrots, etc. BUT, that all got cut out when I couldn't' eat anything but dry crackers during 1st Tri and I've been very S L O W L Y re-integrating my normal foods back in, because I'm afraid of eating somethign too soon, getting nauseated by it, and never being able to eat it again! :/ But, I can't just rely on my probiotic, gotta get back to fermenting again...
 
#15 ·
Watch the film. Loved it. Been taking my Garden of Life Raw Enzyme with tons of probiotics in it, drinking kombucha on a semi-regular basis, and of course taking my D3 (I live in WA state. Sunshine is basically non-existent here until May-Sept.).

My normal diet (pre-morning sickness) includes lots of homemade fermented sauerkraut (the simple Nourishing Traditions recipe is my favorite one), kimchi, pickled carrots, etc. BUT, that all got cut out when I couldn't' eat anything but dry crackers during 1st Tri and I've been very S L O W L Y re-integrating my normal foods back in, because I'm afraid of eating somethign too soon, getting nauseated by it, and never being able to eat it again! :/ But, I can't just rely on my probiotic, gotta get back to fermenting again...
I don't like Sally's recipes that include whey; I think it makes ferments mushy. You don't think so?

I've been fermenting anaerobically lately and LOVE it! My milk kefir has been going crazy in a Le Parfait hinged jar! All of a sudden there's a hissing sound in the corner and it takes me a minute to realize it's the gas escaping from the kefir. The grains have been multiplying like mad ever since I switched methods.

I did a 2 gallon jar of sauerkraut in a Le Parfait jar too and it's super crunchy and delicious. I have sooooo many jars of fermented pickles, some dill and some with tons of chili peppers and they're delicious. It's so easy to make a meal and just throw some veggie ferments on the side as the veggie.

Have you ever tried fermenting kohlrabi? Hands down, our favorite ferment. I peel the kohlrabi and chop it into large matchsticks and make it like dill pickles. I've had jars last 3 years and the crunch is unbelievable - like it's fresh from the garden. And beets - I LOVE ginger beets!

Mmmm, going to have to go raid the fridge...
 
#17 ·
Among a group of 75 infants, those who were vaginally delivered and had a longer gestation before birth tended to more quickly develop a more mature gut microbiota, and had typical body fat at 18 months. By contract, babies who were delivered via Caesarean section and had shorter gestations took longer to acquire a more mature gut microbiota and had lower body fat at 18 months.

Interesting. My sister-in-law next door (okay, so she's like a mile away but on the opposite end of the same property) has two sons exactly 2 yrs apart (same birthday!). They were both homebirths transferred in for C Sections, both for different reasons but they were about 10.5 lbs. The eldest is almost 4 and was around 44 weeks gestation I think. He has always only had like one BM every 2-3 days. She said now it's 3-4 days. She thinks that's normal bc that's how she is. The younger one was born at just over 37 weeks gestation, and he poops 3-7 times a day. Both boys are stoutly built but not fat. They were the chubbiest little nurslings you've ever seen though. Ana was too. She was 40+5, delivered naturally. She was so chunky and has always had no more than 3 as a little mite, but now as a 2 yr old a consistent 1-2 BMs a day unless she's got something off in her that day. Then it's as high as 4 or two days in between. She's petite like me and probably on the slim yet healthy side.
I know my SIL at least was doing milk kefir as of the summer. She was putting their abundance of garden strawberries in it for smoothies every day and the boys loved them. With being 9 months pregnant, I'm not sure if she's still keeping up or not. We drink water kefir, I make my own cultured yogurt and sour cream. I am wanting to branch out. We eat Bubbies pickles and sauerkraut. At least I eat the kraut. Ana loved it as a baby, then went through a 6 month picky stage and now won't eat many of the things she used to. My fermented pickles have never worked out right. Not sure what I do wrong. Pickles of any sort and me just have never worked well. Lol I am wanting to get into more and more cultured and fermented goodies. I have apple cider vinegar started and it's just starting to have a faint vinegar smell. I have sourdough started and am planning to make the first loaf tomorrow morning.
Not too many of my Sally Fallon things worked out. I don't know if it was something I was doing wrong, or if I just wasn't used to so many of the different cultured flavors (or ideas) when I tried it. I should pull the book back out again. I don't like to use whey just bc it's one thing that's constantly high on my allergy report. I have a jar I strained off of the mozzarella cheese I made a couple weeks ago just in case I decide I want it though. I'm about to get into my own cheese making too, and I think I'll be able to get raw milk for it this spring and try it that way. I really believe all those nice fermented and cultured things are amazingly good for you! Nice to know they're all the better for baby too!:thumb
 
#18 ·
Wow, a BM every 2-4 days? NOT normal! The ideal is supposed to be "after each meal" so 2-3 times a day. DH is like that (maybe all of the good stuff he got from his rural upbringing, like, really rural and poor.) The rest of us are 1-2/day, usually 1, except for my four year old who is more like 2-4 times a day, but always a nice, formed, but not compacted BM.

There's something about Bubbies kraut that I remember not being what I'd hoped for...but the pickles are supposed to be traditionally fermented. It was so many years ago that I can't recall what it was about the kraut. Ah: http://www.mommypotamus.com/does-bubbies-pasteurize-their-products-say-it-aint-so/ <--- maybe not a big deal after all. :)
 
#19 ·
I'll have to read that on the Bubbie's. I just don't eat enough of it to justify the mess of making it. And my pickles are nasty. Lol

I have tried to tell her to get the boys on probiotics and stuff, but she just doesn't see a need. Can't shove it down their throats, but I do mention it sometimes.
 
#22 ·
Thank you @Metasequoia, I'll have to go find that.

I was just recommended to look into HMF Maternity for the last trimester prey and the 1st trimester postpartum.
http://www.seroyal.com/ca/brands/genestrabrands/products/2013/4/h/hmf-maternity.html

The research is sound and this company is a good one for actually having the strains and the quantity that they claim. The lead researcher and lab that these are coming out of are really well verified. - Nigel Plummer.

I think that this would be a good one for vaginal suppositories for the last trimester too.

Especially recommended for women who are: immunocompromised, having a c-sec or getting antibiotics at birth or during pregnancy, had issues with vaginal colonization infections or ph, food allergies, Colicky or fussy baby, poor sleeping baby, maternal depression at any point in this hormonal ride.
 
#23 ·
I was just recommended to look into HMF Maternity for the last trimester prey and the 1st trimester postpartum.
http://www.seroyal.com/ca/brands/genestrabrands/products/2013/4/h/hmf-maternity.html

The research is sound and this company is a good one for actually having the strains and the quantity that they claim. The lead researcher and lab that these are coming out of are really well verified. - Nigel Plummer.

I think that this would be a good one for vaginal suppositories for the last trimester too.

Especially recommended for women who are: immunocompromised, having a c-sec or getting antibiotics at birth or during pregnancy, had issues with vaginal colonization infections or ph, food allergies, Colicky or fussy baby, poor sleeping baby, maternal depression at any point in this hormonal ride.
That PBX also has maltodextrin & hypromellose - whatever they are! ;) The one Maia linked to didn't have any other ingredients.
 
#24 ·
Yes and 10 billion probiotics/capsule really isn't a whole lot IMO. Great that it focuses on the Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium strains as those are the ones you want baby to pick up. :) I don't love Genestra/Seroyal as a brand personally, I looked into them a lot for my son's autism treatments and found a lot of their products have questionable ingredients and not very high potency!
 
#25 ·
Good points, both. Good thing I have time to assimilate the price tag on those probiotics you've recommended, @blissful_maia. My next thought is about how to get them inside me, vaginally, regularly and without much adu.

The evidence is just too overwhelming to be able to dissuade me that this is not an important thing to do.

Ideas ladies? A pre-sex penis dip? clearly I am grasping...!
 
#26 ·
We got into application in the TMI thread, didn't we? I might have to go dig it up...

I don't think I'd routinely give my infant probiotics but myself leading up to birth, sure. (Not that you asked or intended to do so, Wild Rose, I just thought I'd share that. :lol)
 
#27 ·
hmm, I'll have to go peruse the tmi thread now! Thanks meta. I can see how the subject quickly moves to tmi, if not already breached!

It is a common practice in these parts to recommend infants get probiotics. There are probiotic supplements made especially for infants who need it. If a mama is adequately nourished and colonized and the birth allowed baby to be colonized, this is likely not necessary. However, it can be really helpful with thrush issues on the nipple or in the baby's mouth or a coming cold. I myself would not hesitate if it looked like it could be helpful. (and it is a great point about the additives- darn it!)

That being said, the recommendation to me that started all of this conversation was for me to load up on these specific strains in the last trimester and the first trimester pp. Not for giving to baby specifically!

I am now trying to budget for buying the GutPro jar @blissful_maia has recommended. I am more and more convinced that it is something I should be on.
 
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