TTC 6+ Months November Support Thread - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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TTC 6+ months September Support Thread


Welcome to the support thread for those of us who've been trying for a little bit longer than the average bear. The 6-12 month mark in TTC seems especially tough because it's been longer than a lot of people but not quite long enough to qualify for the next level of treatment/approach. (Note that some of us have been trying for 12+, but we're taking our time and sticking with this thread for a bit!)

We would love to talk with others who are at simliar places in
their TTC journey. Please jump on in and introduce yourself!



TTC for 6+ Months

allisonrose-TTC #1 since 10/05
angel1895— TTC #2 since 2/06
anonymousk – TTC #1 since 5/06
Beutyful--TTC #1 since 4/06
c_something- TTC #1 since 12/05
ChristyM26 – TTC #1 since 2/06
Coome – TTC #1 since 9/05
ELKMama — TTC #2 since 3/06
Funnygrace – TTC #1 since 9/05
greenegirl — TTC#1 since 5/06
GoodyTiptoesWish – TTC #2 since 1/06
Hezzy – TTC #1 since 11/05
Itybty – TTC #1 since 9/05
Joygee - TTC #2 since 9/05
Kvan – TTC #2 since 8/05
Let it be-TTC#1 since 3/06
Lilyflower – TTC #3 since 1/06
Maybebabysoon – TTC #1 since 9/05
Megnmama – TTC #2 since 8/05
mommy in chaos-TTC #2 since 3/06
~MoonGypsy~-TTC #2 since 3/06
Mosquitobite - TTC #? since 7/05
Oceanmommy – TTC #2 since 7/05
Pamered_mom – TTC #2 since 12/05
Pycelan – TTC #3 since 10/05
Punquin —TTC #1 since 8/05
SarahJen — TTC #1 since 1/06
Selkat — TTC since 08/05
SereneBabe- TTC #2 since...
Taradactyl3 — TTC #2 since 6/06
Tarahsolazy – TTC #2 since 11/05
Willowsmom — TTC #2 since 1/04
Willzmama – TTC #2 since fall/05
wombatclay - TTC #2 since 2/06




: Graduates :



Racecar — due 7/07 with #2 after 13 months TTC
HopesMom-due 7/07 with #3 and #4! after 10 months TTC
Secretlytrying – due 6/07 with #3 after ? months TTC
Txbikegrrl – due 6/07 with #1 after 5 months of TTC!
ChristineIndy - due 6/07
Chrissy – due 5/07 with #3 after 11 months of TTC!
Arwyn - due 3/07 with #1 after a whole bunch of months of TTC!
Paisley – due 3/07 with #2 after 9 months of TTC!
Didkisa – due 3/07 with #1 after 7 months of TTC!
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#2 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 02:31 PM
 
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Oooooooh - all shiny new! But I'm trying since Sept, not Oct. Can I get that adjusted. Not that I want to be over 12 months... but....
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#3 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 02:33 PM
 
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Beauteous!!!!
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#4 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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New thread--it's a little busy. Please remember to go back to read the last few posts on the October thread as this is going up mid-day for those on the East coast.

lilyflower--You doctor's appointment sounds promising. But I know how emotionally complex those visits can be. I always feel a little out of control. I hope Metformin is it!

HopesMom--Are you not sharing the "few things a bit differently this cycle"? Secrets we should know about?

Punquin--Congrats on another pos test! I know what you mean about trusting the two lines more. You could call your dr. and say you think you might have had a few early losses (you've been trying for 14 months) and you want to get beta's to make sure you are doubling and get a progesterone test. It's probably not necessary. But you could post a new thread on the main board and ask more experienced mom's for their advice.

Oceanmommy--

So I was playing a word game/crossword game last night. It is one in which you get a bunch of letters and you rearrage them to make words. It is scored by the number of letters in each word. And generally speaking 5 or 6 letters are the longest words we get around here. Last night.... I got....

PREGNANT

An 8 letter word--needless to say I won--but also it felt oddly like a preg test. Or maybe it is a congrats for Punquin and HopesMom. I'm only... I don't know how many DPO. 4... ish. I think I'm not going to temp this lp. I'm on Prometrium, so it doesn't change anything.

Happy November!
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#5 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Itybty--Me too since 9/05--gosh that seems like a while ago. And you know, lots of stuff besides ttc has happened. It's not been a bad year overall. I made your change.
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#6 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 02:43 PM
 
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ooh Funnygrace that is a good omen. Here's hoping you have the threadkeeper's luck, October turned out pretty good Thanks BTW for the lovely new thread.





I hope y'all don't mind but I am re-posting my last post because minutes later the new thread went up here... not trying to be a downer twice or anything






Well, emotionally this morning I am in the dumps. I started having crampy twinges last night and my temp went down a bit today (although I did wake up really early), so I am not feeling too optimistic today.

Those 2 recent BFPs are like land appearing on the horizon after being cast away at sea.... I see that they are there, they do exist and I am happy some of my friends have finally arrived on the shore.... but I feel like I am swimming, and swimming, without making any headway. Like a bad dream. It is so frustrating and depressing :

I feel like my unusual higher temps this cycle are just one big cosmic joke.

bleh.


Tricia, I guess this qualifies as "crazy mode " ? so yes, I am there.
Are you and Punquin walking on clouds today or what?



Lilyflower I am excited to hear about the Met because I have always heard people saying it is what helped them get PG ! I really hope it works for you. I also heard that if you get the nausea symptoms, and not everyone does, that they go away once you get used to it. :


Tenk, how are you ? How's the clomid treating you ?


ItyBty, I am glad to hear your HSG went ok. Not too bad, not anything you want to run out and do again soon right ? I am glad we can obsess on our post HSG cycle(s) together. It's good that you found your septum, I thought I had heard something about a septum could make implantation more difficult ? Not sure, I really don't know. I have read plenty of birth stories from ladies with septums, though, for sure. I thought someone on the 12+ monther list had one... Leslie in Chicago maybe ? Might be useful to inquire on that thread.



Ugh I just feel like smashing things.




ETA Mommy in Chaos I just saw your post. See ? You are not alone in your feelings today I don't know if it helps or hurts to hear it but your chart looks good.
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#7 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 02:46 PM
 
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Very pretty thread, funnygrace.

I'm sorry so many of you are feeling down. If it helps at all, I got that way whenever there seemed to be a flurry of pregnancy announcements. Even if I was genuinely happy for the woman/family...it just seemed to make my situation seem even more desperate.
And there's nothing magical in the small differences from this month, funnygrace. Second round of clomid, first cycle of acupuncture and we kept at the trying past when I thought I ovulated. Usually we ran out of steam at the end.

punquin- its normal here for the doc not to see you until even later. I thikn the standard is a nurse visit at 8 weeks and a doc visit after that...maybe 10 weeks? With my first we had a very unclear LMP/conception date and we went in much sooner. That reassurance early on is great but we are too early to "see" much but HCG levels and the pregnancy tests tell you the story there!
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#8 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 02:52 PM
 
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Ocean thanks for asking, I'm doing fine with it. No real side effects to report. During the time when I was actually taking it, I had some headaches, but I had discovered migraines just prior to taking it which could have contributed to them. I have the occasional hot flash anyway and some time even insomina as well. So after the last pill on the 24th (CD5) I have had nothing. Now, I can really tell my ovaries are functioning, but no pain for now....just crampy. Really ok tho. Thank you again for asking!!!

Tricia I really hope you didn't thank I was being insensitive the other day, I wasn't trying to be...I'm glad my feeling of you getting your BFP this month was accurate too!!!

Punquin YEA!!! That's got to be the best news, for you both.

Ladies may we all be next!!!

Tenk ~ happily married with lots of kids

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#9 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 03:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenk View Post
Tricia I really hope you didn't thank I was being insensitive the other day, I wasn't trying to be...I'm glad my feeling of you getting your BFP this month was accurate too!!!
You definitely called it, Tenk. I have never thought you were being insensitive. No worries.
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#10 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 04:41 PM
 
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I keep starting responses and then having to go somewhere else on the internet for work and losing my typed reply. Besides, I am having a hard time trying to figure out how to make you feel better Ocean and MommyIC. Your chart is still much higher and much different than usual so I am still hopeful Ocean. It helped me yesterday to drive and blast music really loud. It seems like those pregnancy tests really don't help either.
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#11 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 06:15 PM
 
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My poor DD has been home all of 5 minutes, and already she is getting on my nerves. It's times like this when I wonder what the heck I even want to have another baby for. I'm not a patient person, and she makes me want to scream! She's 7 and at a very dramatic stage in her life. She cries about everything, and she whines continueously. When she got home today, she automatically started whining about not being allowed to go to the neighbors house.
Am I the only mom who thinks she's not worthy of another baby because the one that I already have is driving me mad?
To top it off, my bbs hurt, they aren't just sore, they hurt (I crossed my arms and thought I might pass out from the pain) and I'm sooooooooooo tired. So I'm walking with my shoulders slumped and my arms far out from my side, and I literally look like a zombie...
I just feel like my head off the wall and then myself to sleep...
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#12 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 06:30 PM
 
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Uh... right. A person goes away for a week or two and the thread turns upside down. Anyways:

Congrats to the BFP's.

to those of you who are bummed.

Today I saw my brand new ob/gyn, who is nothing short of wonderful. She came in and talked with me for about 20 minutes, going over the entire year (from last Nov til now) and asked a million questions. I could tell her brain was really going, trying to figure out what was going on. I could have squealed, I was so happy. So the new plan:

She gave me progesterone, which I start today, for 14 days. She thinks that the spotting/bleeding from last time was not af. So the progesterone should jumpstart my body (hopefully). Second, she took blood and is checking everything from my glucose (for insulin resistance) to thyroid levels. I guess, leave no stone unturned and if you're going to draw blood you might as well do everything at once. I go back to see her in 3 weeks to report on the progesterone and to get the results of all the blood work. Not a lot of answers but a lot of work put in to find the answers. That makes me happy.

Mama to Aeden, : my little NICU grad and Conner and Liam () my precious twins. is due mid April!
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#13 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 06:48 PM
 
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I just tried to show my husband what an explanation of PCOS was and he just more or less said doesn't that mean there will be something wrong with a baby? It is really hard to have someone who doesn't believe in any medication for this type of thing. I had two healthy kids already after I was diagnosed with PCOS. Now another thing for me to worry about.

I don't understand, though, why I still have regular periods. Doesn't that mean I am ovulating??? I have higher temps after ovulation too. I don't quite understand all of this. I wish I had a direct line to call my doctor at all moments.

Christy that is great news about your appointment.

Ocean I hope you are feeling a little better now. It is possible as our moods seem to change quickly these days!

Hopesmom, I can't believe it still!!! No cheering up needed!

Punquin, I loved seeing the pictures of your positive tests on FF. Very neat!! Thanks for that visual!

MommyIC - I question my decision and my right to have another child every day. But those frustrations are there for everyone and usually people aren't going to this much trouble to have a child, we have so much more time to consider these things.

I hate to say it but I am actually feeling my ovaries right now. I swear I am a hypochondriac or something.
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#14 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 06:55 PM
 
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And another thing......

ItyBty I will be hanging out with you this cycle. Exciting! I hope things happen for us!

Funnygrace that was funny about the PREGNANT. Maybe a good sign. It's EVERYWHERE!!! I had my first chance to feel extremely jealous at the doctor's office since TTC. There were so many moms with babies everywhere.

Tenk, I hope you are feeling good and this is the month. I plan to try Clomid next. I just went ahead and took Metformin last night with Vitex, even though I have not gotten a call back from my doctor yet. I will just stop if she calls and says not to, but I found information on internet saying it was okay to take both. Hope it is true.

Okay, now I am done!
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#15 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 08:23 PM
 
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Hi!
Punquin - I read some of your pre-bfp posts, and had a very good gut feeling about you this month. I'm so excited for you!!!
and congrats to Tricia as well.

So, I know I'm quiet on this part of the board, but I stalk you guys. I'm not on the thread this month, and we are on a bit of a "break" (aka: it's *almost* impossible for us to get pg on our own), but I'm not ready to move away from being ttc. So, threadkeeper, could you add me back onto the list? ttc since, uh, 8/05. Scary. It's almost 2007 too, really.
I was talking to MIL the other day, and she confirmed what I had suspected, that they had a lot of trouble ttc #2 and 3. Five years for #2 and 2.5 for #3. She was told that there was nothig "wrong" with her, but they never pursued testing for FIL. I wonder if crappy sperm can be genetic? Makes me wonder anyway. And my heart totally broke for them. FIVE YEARS?!?!! I'm generally ready to jump off a bridge after 14 months whenever I think about it too much, so I can't even imagine what five years would do to a soul.
Happy day after Halloween all, and I'll be stalking the thread, watching for thi month's bfps.
Katia

For greater things are yet to come...

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#16 of 786 Old 11-01-2006, 11:29 PM
 
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Lilly thanks for asking, I'm feeling very normal even with 100mg of Clomid in my body this cycle. I'm on CD13 and still no O yet...is that weird???
Oh well, we'll see. Sometimes everything is frustrating, I think we have to all just dish here, and then go about our lives, and then dish here later that day, and go on again...OH man, did I have a day. I hope yours gets better tho!!! : oh and I got my clomid off the net...not from the doc, I've heard that soy around 80mg CD 3-7 or 2-6 can do the same as clomid but more naturally?!?!

Oceanmommy No reason to count yourself out here hun, your chart looks so fabulous!! :

MommyIC I get that way with mine ALL the time, I too have a 7 yo DD in 2nd grade, and sometimes I just don't understand her thoughts and then sometimes she is some comforting (mommy i will do it that way if you want me to) and then others, she is nutz...but all 3 of mine are that way :

Christy I'm so GLAD you like the new doc, that is SOOOO important

FunnyGrace I have to say that being the thread keeper seems to be lucky here...fingers crossed...BTW I really liked seeing my name up there...

ItyBty What CD are you??? I was wondering if anyone was near me, I'm CD13 for a few more hours anyway...talk soon

Tricia & Pun CONGRATULATIONS again!! hugs...Teneal

Tenk ~ happily married with lots of kids

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#17 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 12:43 AM
 
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Tenk - I'm on CD12 here, so yeah, we are pretty close huh? TOnight begins our week of gio nonstop. I've been O-ing days 16-19 the last few months, so I wanna get "stocked up" and catch that damned egg already.


I bought a HUGE jug (like, 2 gallons!) of 100% grapefruit juice the other day, and I opeend it today. My plan is to drink a large glass of that every morning, a small one at night, and green tea in the afternoons, along with Evening primrose capsules morning and night. I figure I'll have CM, come heck or high water this month.

Selkat - Welcome back! Or maybe more like, Thanks for talkin! Or somethin... I dunno. But don't be so quiet - you can be chatty with us.

Lily - Looks like you, me, and Tenk are all on the same wavelength this month...

ChristyM26 - I'm so happy you found a wonderful Dr! In fact, you sounded so happy with her, I immediately looked for your location, hoping it was near me. I'll have my fingers & toes crossed for you and your amazing new Dr figureing out whats going on.

Mommyinchaos - : to you... It sounds like you need a vacation.
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#18 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 09:30 AM
 
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A vacation... hummm... what's that?

I'm deciding wether or not to POAS today. I haven't peed yet this morning. I need some encouragement. I'm 10 DPO today and my temp is still high.
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#19 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 11:42 AM
 
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Hello all. Back from Spain. First let me say:

: : Congratulations to Punquin and Hopesmom!!! : :

I can't tell you how excited I was to get home after not reading the board for almost 2 weeks and see that!

Spain was great. I hardly thought about TTC, which was nice. I did make a fatalistic comment about not ever having needed a diaphragm in the first place that threw DP for a loop -- he felt like I was saying we're never going to get pg, which I suppose I was, but it's just my way. Sometimes I forget that he's not in my head with all of my crazy thoughts all the time. He was mad because he thought we were supposed to be staying positive and I get so down and negative about it. Anyway, I haven't been temping because I figured with all of the time changes and daylight savings and traveling, I wouldn't be doing it very well anyway. It's kind of a relief. I'm on CD16 and I feel like I'm O'ing today or tomorrow. We BD'd this morning and yesterday morning. I'm really late for work, but I don't really care. This is more important!

Anyway, I'm so glad to get some long-awaited BFPs around here. Let's get some more!! I have a lot of catching up to do on this board. It seems like there's a lot going on. Can't wait to see some more BFPs this month!
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#20 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 11:51 AM
 
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ItyBty, Lilly, Hezzy (welcome back) looks like we're ALL 4 around the same CD. day 14 for me today and still NO + OPK...when the hell is it going to happen??? I think that's very cool, maybe we can all get BWP'S hehe this month and well you know....

MommyIC & Ocean how soon do you plan on testing, your much stronger than me if you can hold out like that...

Tenk ~ happily married with lots of kids

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#21 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 12:05 PM
 
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Welcome back Hezzy! I hope the relaxation from Spain helps this cycle.
And I totally understand your statement about the diaphragm. I have said to my husband many times that I sure wish we hadn't wasted so many hours in search of condoms! Who knew that it was so hard to get pregnant?

Oceanmommy- where are you? I keep coming online this am so I can stalk your chart, woman!
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#22 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 12:08 PM
 
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Hi there -- Wanted to introduce myself and officially join in! I've been reading this thread off and on for a month but I wanted to wait until a new month because otherwise it is overwhelming to keep track of!!

I'm E, 36 yo, ttc since 3/06 after a m/c in 2/06. So it feels like we've been on this journey since the 11/05 conception. We have 1 wonderful ds who is 3 yo and I'm so eager for #2. I'm a WOHM and travel a bit for work too, so I will be in and out this month especially. But I'm eager to get to know you all and soak up the wisdom and good vibes!

DH and I went to the OB on Tuesday (new one; I'd seen mw for the preg earlier this year). I think we both thought she'd say "oh, just keep trying" and we'd have to push for some testing. But no, she was ready to send us off to RE specialists right away "because of your age." Way to make me feel old! I had bloodwork and DH will do sperm analysis as soon as we're past this round of trying. She also suggested an HSG for next cycle and she was ready to put me on Clomid right away. It is funny how I'm so ready for any help we can get on one level, but also it freaked me out because it means an "official" doctor thinks we need some help... I asked about Clomid side effects and she said increased risk of multiples was all. But I thought I'd heard of other issues. Any real life experience to share with Clomid???

That's way too much for starting - but I wanted to actually dive in and stop lurking!
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#23 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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elkmama!! Come on in, the water is fine!

Hezzy! We missed ya! Tell us allllll about your fabulous vacation! And I totally feel ya on the diaphragm thingy, only for us it was condoms. If i'd have known it would take this long to get knocked up,. I'd have outlawed them the day after we got married. BD-ing while not trying seemed to work for Punquin - I forsee a rash of shower-sex related incidents after her story.

Tenk - I wouldn't freek out about O-day, I don't O until day 16, andits been as late as 19 before... at CD14, I just have lots and lots and lots of... errrm, sex. Just keep chugging the green tea and grapefruit juice.

mommyinchaos - so you're saying, I should enjoy my kid-free quiet time while it lasts? That makes sense!

As for me, well I'm invoking Murphy's Law this month - When my aunt moved to a smaller house last year, she gave me some baby stuff, including a crib thats been in my attic awaiting its occupant. SO - today I'm giving that crib to friends who are expecting in April, and I'm hoping that by getting rid of the crib, I'll get pregnant. What's how it works, right? I figure that's why I'm not pregnant yet. I was far too ready!
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#24 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome, ELKMama! I added you to the list. And I don't quite recall the details but I did read recently that more recent studies indicate that Clomid does not increase the risk of longterm problems (cancer?). Clomid does dry you out and thus decrease your CM. For that reason some people combine it with IUI for better results. Also I think it is supposed to thin your endometrial lining, which is why you aren't supposed to take it longer than a certain number of cycles in a row. Multiples do seem like the biggest risk, which is why I am wary. But I might be taking the plunge soon. The Clomid plunge? Ehh...

Welcome back Hezzy! How fun not to temp! Good luck GIO the next few days.
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#25 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 01:21 PM
 
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Thanks, funnygrace and ItyBty, for the welcome. And thanks for the Clomid info too. Right now I'm at the stage where twins sound TERRIFIC. DH got a panicked look on his face when the OB said that, though, and triplets do sound a bit challenging... I am holding out hoping that this cycle works or next, when the HSG will be done, so that the Clomid thing is just hypothetical.

Hezzy - a vacation in Spain sounds wonderful. Glad it was fun!
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#26 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 01:24 PM
 
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Hello ladies. Just checking in. We are cd14 and I think I o'd yesterday, which makes me a little irritated because our timing is not as perfect as I would like. Yes, I am a perfectionist with control issues. But they tell me that women like me reproduce all the time, so I'm not giving up hope yet!

This afternoon is my first acupuncture appointment, and I'm really excited. I'm really looking forward to seeing someone who is ready and willing to help me, and who wants to see me as a whole person and not an isolated system or symptoms. Anyone else done the acupuncture before? Where do they put all the needles? What is it like?

I'm trying to maintain the normality that I've had going on the past few weeks but I can feel it starting to slip already. At least I am off those crazy making vitamins and feeling more like myself again. Work and dance will be really busy this month so there will be plenty to keep me distracted.... I hope.
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#27 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 01:32 PM
 
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Well chart stalkers the end is near, and it's not pretty. AF is about to arrive and I am feeling pretty terrible, bitter, hopeless, and angry. Why did the universe yank me like that with a whole LP of lovely higher temps ? I really think it was because I said I wouldn't get my hopes up anymore.: : :

I made myself some coffe because, why not ?



Sorry to be a downer folks, I appreciate being able to throw my tantrum here. I have to put on a happy face so much IRL (like with my 5 yo dd) it feels like I don't get to express the true depths of my feelings that often. I can't let her see that mommy's sad today because we are still waiting for our baby.




Ack, no time for personals except....

Welcome ELKmama ! Hope your stay isn't long, although the company is great.

Hezzy, it's good to see you again and hear you had fun in Spain. I thought of you relaxing in fancy Spanish places.


GOOD LUCK to all of you who are about to O : and of course those about to know : Even when I'm down I want to see more BFPs roll in.




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#28 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 01:37 PM
 
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I'm so sorry, Oceanmommy. I know those feelings so well and I hate hearing that you're having them too. I mean, I like hearing about it, but I wish the situation were different. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Thinking lots of positive thoughts for you today.
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#29 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 01:47 PM
 
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Oh Oceanmommy how could the universe be so cruel? I think it was cruel to all of us with your great chart. Maybe the progesterone was causing that. Next month do you plan to try Clomid? I am so sorry about the chart.

Elkmama Hello! This group has been wonderful for me. The only release for all of my feelings so I don't damper the "sex vibe" at home with my "scientific reproduction research."

Hezzy I am glad you are back to be our ("are" - what I can't spell on this forum for wome reason???) cycle buddy.

ItyBty - I am sure that will be the way it goes! I just got rid of the last car seats. Everything is gone now....I'm waiting....

Anonymousk you are lucky, I wish I ovulated sooner! I don't usually ovulate until about day 18. Still looks like good timing to me!

Mommy - Personally, I would wait a couple more days and enjoy the possibility. I had a much better time doing that last month than the previous months getting all the BFNs. Besides, if you are, a couple of days won't hurt waiting??? I know that is easy to say where I sit.

I had a bit of spotting a few hours after "GIO" yesterday. Tenk why did you say spotting midcycle is a good sign? My body seems to be going through some type of changes with all this Vitex. I can feel activity in that area even before ovulation. I almost think I may be ovulating early, but my ovulation test this morning was a dud with no line at all on it. That makes me mad.
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#30 of 786 Old 11-02-2006, 02:10 PM
 
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Awww Oceanmommy - I was holding out hope you'd be #3 this time around. : Feel free to vent - sometimes it feels like no one else understands but you guys (to me anyways) Here's another : for good measure.

Lily - Fingers crossed!
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