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#1 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I ovulate on around CD 22+ and would like to know how I can ovulate sooner. I dont have many chances to ttc because my cycles are so long. Ovulating isnt the problem, its just so late!

PS. I've been though Western ferility treatment (Clomid, etc) and that did more harm than good, so if someone could point me into another direction that would be good.
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#2 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 05:31 PM
 
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I just had this talk with my OB, except I was worried that I was ovulating too soon. He said it isn't necessarily WHEN you ovulate, but how many days there are between Ovulation and Menstration.
He told me that the best way to force ovulation when it's not wanting to is Clomid. You take the drug for 4 or 5 days and it (painfully) forces the ovary to fork over the egg.

I've also hear that Vitex is a good possibility if you already ovulate alright on your own. I just started a B Complex in hopes of knocking this perpetual early spotting out.
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#3 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 05:41 PM
 
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Using vitex moved up my ovuation date by about a week, so far. If you look at my older charts, I used to ovulate around CD19, and as late as CD24. This cycle I ovulated on CD15. Plus it lengthened my LP by about 3 days.
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#4 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by KitttyKat View Post
I just had this talk with my OB, except I was worried that I was ovulating too soon. He said it isn't necessarily WHEN you ovulate, but how many days there are between Ovulation and Menstration.
He told me that the best way to force ovulation when it's not wanting to is Clomid. You take the drug for 4 or 5 days and it (painfully) forces the ovary to fork over the egg.

I've also hear that Vitex is a good possibility if you already ovulate alright on your own. I just started a B Complex in hopes of knocking this perpetual early spotting out.

I know it doesnt matter when I ovulate - its just that it only gives me maybe 6 or 7 chances a year to conceive instead of 12 .

I hyperstimulated on Clomid 5 years ago and I never want to go through that again. Plus, I had other horrible sides effects.

I may try to Vitex again though. I took it in the past and it was pretty good.
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#5 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by beckyphry View Post
Using vitex moved up my ovuation date by about a week, so far. If you look at my older charts, I used to ovulate around CD19, and as late as CD24. This cycle I ovulated on CD15. Plus it lengthened my LP by about 3 days.
Thanks!
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#6 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 06:55 PM
 
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This month I have ovulated earlier than I ever have. I'm pretty sure I've o'ed around cd13 when I usually o around cd20ish. Here is a link to my FF homepage to see my dates, if you are interested:

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/13ef02

The only things that I've done differently this month is: had an hsg, started drinking fertiltea (it hass vitex among other herbs in it) and also started seeing a chiropractor and he manually adjusts my lower back at every visit. I honestly think that the chiro has helped the most.

My RE said that it is a big deal if you O late in the cycle. It can increase your chance of miscarriage and defects to the baby because the egg is old. And, as you said, it means you O less throughout the year, making chances even slimmer.

Good luck to you!
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#7 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks cincynana. I do remember reading years ago that late O can put you at a higher risk of miscarriage, but I don’t remember when or where that was.

Plus, this is turning into the AF from hell: Heavy bleeding, clotting and cramping. I will start taking Vitex again starting today (CD1) along with my usual green tea, EPO - also now drinking "woman friendly" teas to help with cramping, iron, etc. I may take a bike ride if the weather clears up.
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#8 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 08:40 PM
 
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One more thing....
I, too, was having horrible periods. I started taking Lydia Pinkham tablets. It has black cohosh in it. I'm not taking them all cycle long anymore, but I take them during AF and I have stopped having heavy periods and bad cramping. Some people swear that they can get pg by taking it. Everyone is different, but people did call it a "baby in every bottle." Got off track, but maybe the black cohosh will help with your AF. HTH.
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#9 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 10:27 PM
 
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barose, if you are considering meds but don't like clomid, look into femara/letrozole, it brings on ovulation in a different manner than clomid, and has been shown to be just as effective with fewer side effects. nolvadex/Tamoxifen too. They are both anti-estrogens, which trick your body into thinking that you aren't making enough estrogen so that it makes more(at least they do for the 4-5 day regimen, if taken for long periods of time, they block ovulation alltogether).

If you have really bad cramps, try cramp bark, it works wonders for me and DW!

Non Practicing Midwife, going back to school! Mamma to my 3 loves, living each day to the fullest.
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#10 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 10:33 PM
 
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Something that made me ovulate earlier was licorice root. You take it 5 days just like clomid and it helps stimulate o sooner. You take it by the dose on the bottle for the 5 days. Just be carefull that you dont have high blood pressure or diabetes because of the properties of the root.

It also can work wonders for woman who suffer from pcos.

 
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#11 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by MCatLvrMoMof2 View Post
Something that made me ovulate earlier was licorice root. You take it 5 days just like clomid and it helps stimulate o sooner. You take it by the dose on the bottle for the 5 days. Just be carefull that you dont have high blood pressure or diabetes because of the properties of the root.

It also can work wonders for woman who suffer from pcos.

Do you know ow much you took per day? Did you do it from CD 3-7?
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#12 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 11:33 PM
 
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If there is any chance whatsoever you might have PCOS (even if you have atypical symptoms), I would try metformin. It can work wonders. Oddly enough, studies have shown that it helps with fertiltiy even in women without PCOS. By regulating your insulin, it helps regulate all of the hormones in your body, because insulin is like that "grandfather" hormone which controls all the others.....
Also..your cycle is 34 days.....yes, its a little long pre-O, but then you have a nice 12 day LP....but, with 34-36 day cycles, you chould still be getting in 10-11 "tries" per year...which makes me question your 6-7 tries per year statment?? (not that I'm questioning the veracity, LOL, but I'm questioning the "why" of it..)....is the cycle you have in your sig NOT typical for you? do you often go months without a cycle or often have much longer cycles than 34-36 days? Because that's the only way i can think of you would only get 6-7 tries per year..??..
I do personally take clomid or femara to help me O earlier than i would without it (day 16-18), because yes, late O is associated with an increased risk of miscarriage and birth defects I understand you not wanting to take that route, though.....i would ask about your thyroid? A "normal" range is generally reported as anything under 3...BUT, the kicker there is that some women (i am one of them) can NOT get preggo at the higher end of "normal"...they HAVE TO have a number closer to *1* in order to get preggo/not miscarry. If you don't have a recent thyroid test (and get the NUMBER ,not just a "oh, its normal"), I would do that as a very important first step.

baby dust.

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#13 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 11:40 PM
 
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I took it days 3-7 but I dont remember the dosage I just took the recommended on the bottle.

 
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#14 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 11:44 PM
 
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The point I was getting at is that you only had a 12 day luteal this cycle. I was wondering if that was normal length for you. Even if you did push up ovulation, would you still have only 12 days before menstration? (I'm only looking at 1 chart as opposed to you living with your body and knowing everything.)

Someone else on this board pointed out my spotting at 10 days as a potenial problem that I immediately called my doctor about. The progesterone didn't seem to halt my spotting though.
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#15 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 11:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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bobandjess99 I do have PCOS diagnosed in 2000.

I took 2000mg of Metformin for 2 years and it didn’t do anything good for me, but I had horrible side effects that I put up with hoping it would eventually help. I never ovulated or lost weight. I think I am Metformin resistant!

The only way I lost weight (in the sig) and ovulate is through a somewhat strict diet (I am give more details) and lots of exercise: running, weights, bike, etc.

My cycle before last was 38 days, others this year have been around 40 days now. This is my first time charting in almost 4 years so I'm not sure if I ovulated or not.

When I got pregnant before back in 2004, I think I ovulated around cd 17. That was after taking false unicorn and vitex for months. I still wasn’t as healthy as I am now though.

I haven’t had my thyroid checked in years and it was "normal" the last time it was checked though I still try to stay away from foods that would slow it down. That would be next on the list to get checked

KitttyKat I'm not sure if 12 days is typical because I haven’t charted in years. Mostly because I havent had a normal sleeping pattern until recently. I guess time would tell what my normal LH phase is.
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#16 of 28 Old 12-16-2006, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by KitttyKat View Post
The point I was getting at is that you only had a 12 day luteal this cycle. I was wondering if that was normal length for you. Even if you did push up ovulation, would you still have only 12 days before menstration? (I'm only looking at 1 chart as opposed to you living with your body and knowing everything.)
You know, I thought anything 10 days and under was a problem. Is 12 days too soon?

I will see how the vitex will work for me in the next coming months...
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#17 of 28 Old 12-17-2006, 12:10 AM
 
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I read that 10 to 18 days was normal, but then I also read that some woman don't implant until day 11. If that was true then a 10 to 12 day luteal phase would definately be a problem.

I was just reading up on herbs for fertility and came across this
Fertili Tea
I think I might get some.
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#18 of 28 Old 12-17-2006, 02:26 PM
 
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ok.....sorry about the met..obviously, there are a certain percentage of women who don't respond...but so many do and i luckily am one of them.....but, I have to say that for me..I have the WORST side effects also..and they don,'t, contrary to what they tell you, go away for me! I have horrible, 24/7 explosive diarrhea when im on a high dose (ya, i know, TMI, LOL!!) But it does help me....but, although I O'd for almost ayear on it, I was only able to get preggo once i added in the thyroid hormone. (the very first month, actually!!!!!) Now that you have lost some weight, and are ovulating somewhat regularly..I'm wondering if you would have better luck with the met? I understand not wanting to go back that route....but if it might help? If you are only a size 8 now, I'd say that you could even try a dose like 1000 or so....it could be just the little bit you need to make things happen? Or perhaps the thyroid issue?
You mention doing lots of exercise, and I'm wondering if you are taking enough antioxidants oper day to scavenge all your free radicals? Not knowing you personally, I'm going to say you should probably be taking somewhere in the neighborhood of 400iu of E, 2000re of beta-carotene, and at least 4000 mg of vitamin C.
You do also mentiona "strict diet"..I'm wondering if, as amazing as it is..you could possibly be deficient in something? just something to check.

I would also add in a B12sublingual.....it really makes a HUGE difference here...and there's no harm...and some sort of omega 3 supplement..fish oil if you eat fish, otherwise, flax oil...

okay...alli can think of for now!



As far as the vitex(false unicorn)....definitely notice and chart while you are on it...I too have PCOS, and for me, it MESSED me up! So...if you are taking it and it is not helping, or even making things worse...STOP taking it! I took it for months, clinging to the hope that it "had" to help...even though clearly it was making things worse.....

If you want to do something naturally that simulates clomid, you can take strong red CLOVER leaf tea on days 1-8 of your cycle...it is a mild estrogenic herb...and then, once you O, take red RASPBERRY leaf tea until AF (or hopefuly, a BFP!) Thaty is a natural way of regulating your hormones.

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#19 of 28 Old 12-17-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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Barose, I haven't been TTC actively, but I've been charting for four years and trying to get my body healthier in preparation and have paid special attention to what factors seem to affect my ovulation date. I have hypothyroidism and have noticed my ovulation date is significantly earlier when my thyroid is well supported (through medication and supplements). Before I was at an optimal TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) level, I would ovulate around CD 22 or later; now I typicall ovulate by CD 17-18 (this cycle it was CD 15).

I mention this because I see you noted that your thyroid test came back as "normal" years ago; however, in 2002, the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists updated the guidelines: whereas a TSH of 0.5 to 5.0 was considered "normal" in the past, now 0.3 to 3.0 is considered normal. Many people with TSH levels above 3.0 were not diagnosed previously. And even through the new guidelines have been in place for a few years now, many docs and labs are still using the old reference range.

So, I encourage you to get your levels rechecked. Sorry to go on and on about this; I just find that hypthyroidism is more common than I ever would have imagined, especially in women. But it's something that can be treated relatively easily and might sigificantly improve fertility. Because of this, I always encourage my lady-friends to get checked out.

Good luck to you!

K(h)aren. Writing/editing mama to my quixotic Sam (12.07) and my intrepid William (01.11).

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#20 of 28 Old 12-17-2006, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Kharen - thats good to know about the thyroid test. I took it back in 2002 probably before the changes were made. Its probably worth getting checked out again. I noticed I have done much better when I took soy out of my diet so that maybe a clue.

bobandjess99 - I am gluten-intolerant so I know I lack a good amount of fiber in my diet. Since I hardly even eat substitutes for gluten products, I probably lack fiber (though I eat a lot of veggies) and even carbs.
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#21 of 28 Old 12-17-2006, 06:45 PM
 
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Sounds like you have a good handle on things...I do really second what i said and what Kharen emphasized....I am stringly suspecting thyroid here.....if met didn't help, but losing weight did, and you do ovulate now, i would say you have that aspect of PCOS pretty well handled.....the next step is thyroid. I'm going to bet it is above 3 certainly, and likely higher...not that I'm a betting woman, LOL! Also, the fact that i see in your sig you had a stillbirth...could i ask if it was second trimester? .Because thyroid problems are the number one cause of SECOND trimester pregnancy loss...(as opposed to first trimester, which tends to be a blighted ovum/birth defects kind of thing).......so if it was, it makes me think your thyroid finctioned just barely well enough to let you get preggo...but then due to the stress of pregnancy, it just couldn't keep up......it's a really common occurrence, although shockingly so many docs don't bother to mention it to patients....although my understanding is that a thyroid function test is currently being discussed by ACOG as being added to the list of "standard" pregnancy test done at the first visit.
Obviously, if you know your miscarriage/stillbirth was due to other reasons, then it's not the case, but i still really think the thyroid is playing a role here.....

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#22 of 28 Old 12-18-2006, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi bobandjess99,

It was a 3rd trimester loss (30 weeks), so I'm not sure if that would still apply. 2nd trimester and up? The cause was unknown; and this was long after my last thyroid test.

I will look up some information on thyroid tests (so I can ask for the right one!)


Thanks for your help!
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#23 of 28 Old 12-18-2006, 07:24 PM
 
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The first is just s short article discussing thyrois probelms and pregnancy.
The second is the About Thyroid site..the most comprehensive pregnancy/thryoid info availabel anywhere...Mary Shomon is the leading expert.....Read ALL ythe articles, LOL!

http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-12-13-voa58.cfm

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/pregnant...infocenter.htm

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#24 of 28 Old 12-20-2006, 10:54 AM
 
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Bobandjess99 gave you some good links there--especially the second site that Mary Shomon maintains. She's a patient-advocate who has written many books about thyroid-related issues (and autoimmune diseases).

Ask your doc to check TSH, T3, T4, and antithyroid antibodies.

I am so sorry about your loss, barose. I can't even imagine how horrible that must have been for you.

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#25 of 28 Old 12-20-2006, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks ladies. I read the links and passed them on to a friend who might be having the same problem. I also gave them to my holistic nutritionist who I am currently working with; though I need to do the test first.

So I basically ask my doctor for TSH, T3, T4, and antithyroid antibodies? I want to make sure I get the right tests.
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#26 of 28 Old 12-20-2006, 03:34 PM
 
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You got it, sister! These are very common tests, so you doc should know what you're talking about right away.

Your doc might suggest getting just your TSH (thyroid-stimulating hormone) level checked first, but having the results from the other tests will give your doc a broader picture of your thyroid health, so you might as well just get everything checked. Because hypothyroid (in particular) has become so common (everytime I mention I am hypo, some other woman in the room say, "Hey, me too!"), many docs are starting to order the whole thyroid panel, rather than just the TSH.

Let us know how it goes!

K(h)aren. Writing/editing mama to my quixotic Sam (12.07) and my intrepid William (01.11).

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#27 of 28 Old 12-20-2006, 03:41 PM
 
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One more thing ... I just noticed that your sig says you're gluten-free. Do you have Celiac disease by chance?

If so, you should know that there is a causal relationship between Celiac and autoimmune thyroid disease (ex. Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which is the most common cause of hypothyroid [that's what I have]):
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/latestresearch/a/celiac.htm

Anyway, I just wanted to mention that. I don't mean to overwhelm you with information or cause any alarm. I've just studied WAY too many endocrinology texts over the past few years.

The cool thing is that if you are diagnosed with hypothyroid, there are some very effective treatments that can really improve your overall health and fertility!

K(h)aren. Writing/editing mama to my quixotic Sam (12.07) and my intrepid William (01.11).

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#28 of 28 Old 12-20-2006, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was never formally diagnosed with Celiac (not sure what the name of the test that would be) but when I eat gluten, I have a lot of digestive problems: severe, bloating, gas, distended belly and I break out in hives and psoriasis at the same time.
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