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Old 11-11-2009, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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brandyshea ~ Good Luck today
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:41 PM
 
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ktcl, I've seen 4 different acupuncturists over the past 3 years and they have all had different opinions on my "condition". Two have said I have one of the strongest pulses they've ever felt and they don't understand why I can't get pregnant. Another (more recent) said that I was deficient in blood, heart, kidney and chi. My current acupuncturist is a breath of fresh air. He doesn't use pulse or tongue to analyze and believes that TCM goes around in circles trying to analyze your condition and makes things more complicated than they should be. I guess you would call him a modern American acupuncturist! For IVF, he simply follows the main protocol that all the research has been based on and that has been proven to work. For some reason this makes sense to me, because like you, I feel perfectly healthy even though the other acupuncturist said I was severely deficient!

Poetgirl - I would be interested in learning about DHEA. I've been trying to prepare my body for this first IVF mainly with improved nutrition, but have been taking some supplements, like a multi, B6, folate, CoQ10 and zinc. I've been trying to eat less carbs, and more fat and protein, and have actually allowed myself to put on a bit of weight around my belly (trying to emulate those ancient fertility icons!). I've also been taking it easy at the gym, doing absolutely no sit ups or core exercises so my belly is soft and lush for a baby. Also doing more yoga in general.

First babe due Summer 2010! IVF babe after 3.5 years TTC
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:42 PM
 
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Oh, and sending you calm, positive vibes today brandyshea

First babe due Summer 2010! IVF babe after 3.5 years TTC
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:53 PM
 
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Just got the call. Negative.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:00 PM
 
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Poetgirl - I'd also like to know more about DHEA. I've heard some about it and wanted to learn more.

joyful - I've also gone back to a pretty low-carb, high-protein diet too. I've lost weight though (and I have extra so that's a good thing!).

AAM - I haven't had a chance to tell you guys what the dr said. Before she called, I was really ready to give up altogether and thought maybe she would agree but she didn't at all. She said that our embryos looked wonderful and my ovary did great and it was a great cycle overall. She said that next time, she would know to start me on a higher dose of stims because of the slow start last time. And even though I know they can't control the number of embryos we have to work with, I told her that I *really really* wanted to somehow get another embryo or two to work with so that we could try a day 5 transfer again. She agreed and said that if we tweak the meds, that's what we'd be hoping for. She also said it was probably time to be a little more agressive, as in transferring 3 on day 3 or 2 on day 5. That sounds completely reasonable to me, now that we have "proven" to ourselves that we already tried it the conservative way several times now. I do feel more comfortable with two on day 5, which is another reason to try to get to day 5 but at this point, 3 on day 3 is ok with me too. We've done 2 three times in a row now. And of course, I hope we have some to freeze. We had 4 left on day 5 but she said they didn't look very good so they didn't want to freeze them on that day so they kept watching them and by day 7, we had one left but it was splitting into twins. But she said that THAT early on, that's not a good thing because they will either be in the same sack, or even something like conjoined and both of those pregnancies would be super-high-risk. Still, part of me thought it was kind of neat! Anyway, I sort of understand why they didn't want to freeze bad-looking embryos but part of me is like, "we HAD embryos on day 5!" I guess this clinic is just very strict about what they freeze (and they freeze them individually so it's pretty darn expensive) but I really want to understand the criteria better because it's different than what I'm used to at other clinics.

Right now, we are thinking we will take a few months off and maybe try again in the spring. I want to continue to lose weight and do anything else I can to be healthy for this last (most likely) try.

One thing I asked the doc but still want to talk to her further about is why, if we have such great-quality embryos each cycle, nothing ever seems to stick. I am already being treated for the MTHFR and have had every endometrial test under the sun. But still...I wonder. I think my dr thinks we just need to keep trying but I really want to make sure there isn't something more....

Jamie, DW to Jeff, birth and postpartum doula and Hypnobabies instructor.
4 years and 5 IVF cycles in the making, Elliott was born at home in water on 2/2/11.
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:16 PM
 
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I promise to post more about DHEA and Gema's update, but for now, I just wanted to tell Brandy how very sorry I am. There is no road map through this day, but I wish you a lot of love.

Proud Mama to Liam Greenleaf 5/31/10
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:31 PM
 
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brandy - I'm so sorry. I know how painful it is.

Jamie, DW to Jeff, birth and postpartum doula and Hypnobabies instructor.
4 years and 5 IVF cycles in the making, Elliott was born at home in water on 2/2/11.
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Brandyshea ~ I am so sorry. The pain of a bfn is bad. I wish I could be there to help you feel better (make some cookies, or icecream and a tall glass of something).

I am not sure if your ready to hear this but I think it is important that you tested. The line you saw may be an indication of something. From my implantaion failure bloodwork the re found out I have a few thrombophila factors which effect implantion and further development. Just a thought and I hope I am not hurting you by saying that. I am really sorry.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:56 AM
 
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Brandyshea - I am sssooo sorry.

J A with DD1 7/06, lost twins 9/08
DD2 12/09 & DS1 12/09
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:40 PM
 
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I'm so sorry Brandyshae. Go gently on yourself as you heal

First babe due Summer 2010! IVF babe after 3.5 years TTC
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:52 PM
 
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Brandyshea----So very sorry to hear your news!! This is such a tough process that I'm sure will make each of us so much stronger in the end.

The lupron hasn't really given me too much trouble with the side effects besides the abdominal swelling and slight grumpiness! I'm feel soooo bloated! Now I'm patiently waiting for my period to start which was supposed to start yesterday according to the "protocal". I had a little spotting but no full flow yet. Did anyone else have trouble starting their periods after the BCPs? I am just so antsy to get to the next hurdle!!

Hope everyone is doing okay and thinking of you all!!
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:14 PM
 
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(preg. through IVF mentioned)

This is the site that really sold me on it:
http://www.centerforhumanreprod.com/...e_ovaries.html

Then I brought it up with my RE and it was already on his list of things for me to do. I took 75 mg from the first ivf to the second (Mar-Aug). I'm not sure it would benefit just anyone. In the first cycle, I had 11 eggs and only two were mature. I also have a huge history of premature ovarian failure in my family. The second cycle (diff. protocol as well) I had the same # of eggs, but 7 were mature and 6 fertilized. 3 were transferred and two were frozen.

Like Joyful Lioness, I also took the pre-natal, CoQ10, fish oil, and also L-Arginine, Chinese herbs and royal jelly. I drank a lot of Kombucha during ivf 2.

It's hard to say what made the difference, maybe all of it or just one part.

I also took a MDCer's advice and had a consult with a doctor from the SHER institute (haveababy.com). The nurse there fwded me a book basically about the institute's findings on poor responders. From what I learned there, my RE and I changed my protocol at the last minute. The woman who referred me to that was KristinC who had a really difficult first ivf, poor quality, high fsh, RE talking about donor eggs after. She went on to have 3 embryos transferred in the next ivf with a different doctor and different protocol and all three took and one split, so she was preg. with quads. While that might seem scary, I was pretty impressed with all eggs being viable enough to stick given her first cycle. She was convincing about protocol really being the key.

I hope some of that helps. I don't want to come on here and act like I know it all, but I check on you all every day and just want to help in any way.

I'm rooting for everyone here 110%!

Proud Mama to Liam Greenleaf 5/31/10
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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gemasita ~ I am not sure how I missed your post before but wanted to say that sounds like a good plan. It amazes me at how truly complex this all is. I am so glad that you are with a great re who is specialing in you. It is just so important to have have your case understood and then decide on what protocol to use.

Poetgirl ~ That for the valuable information. I just love that you stop by and check in

Heatstone13 ~ I think cd1 for me came almost a week after stopping bcps. Any signs yet? It was pretty lite as far as periods go.

Well I had the most awful pain/cramps on Wednesday. I have never felt anything that bad in the 2ww. It lasted about 24 hours it was a dull pain at first then went to god awful and then kinda faded away. Now today I am having a fair amount of bleeding. Which I have also never had in the 2ww. What is going on? Today is 5dpt and my beta is Monday. I am trying to drink more water (I do drink a lot of it though). Can I just stay in bed?
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:53 PM
 
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I'm hoping it's implantation bleeding for you Seedlings - could be a good sign

First babe due Summer 2010! IVF babe after 3.5 years TTC
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Old 11-13-2009, 06:11 PM
 
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Well I had the most awful pain/cramps on Wednesday. I have never felt anything that bad in the 2ww. It lasted about 24 hours it was a dull pain at first then went to god awful and then kinda faded away. Now today I am having a fair amount of bleeding. Which I have also never had in the 2ww. What is going on? Today is 5dpt and my beta is Monday. I am trying to drink more water (I do drink a lot of it though). Can I just stay in bed?
Well everyone is different, but all I can say, Seedlings, is that the exact same thing happened to me 4dpo on my bfp cycle. The cramps were so bad, I was in tears and we paged the RE in the middle of the night. I had pink then red blood for 24 hrs. then it was gone. I even posted a thread about it, I was so freaked out.
Yes, stay in bed! Take it easy! And holy heck, I am hoping and praying this is a good sign. Take excellent care.

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Old 11-13-2009, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Poetgirl what did your re think the cramping was? I have read a bit that it could be ohss. I just never expected it so far after er. It felt like my inside were being chewed apart. I was getting my hair washed and conditioned before it was cut. While lying back in the chair the most painful cramps started. I could not believe I even made it thru my haircut it was so bad. The bleeding is not good. It almost a full flow. It just seems to much for implantation. But it should be to early for af so I am just hoping for the best.
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:18 PM
 
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Brandy I am so sorry.

Seedlings I hope it was implantation spotting!!

Poet Thanks for sharing your acupuncture experience. I didn't go back. I may do it pre/post transfer.

Gema Sounds like you have a great RE.

Tonight will be night 6 of stims and I am suddenly feeling awful. I can totally feel my massive doses of meds now, I woke up in the middle of the night and suddenly felt restless/anxious/super hormonal and very crampy. I had US/BW today and I am down to 9 follicles, and none are >10mm yet. But my estradiol is higher than it got last time so I am still hoping to make it to retrieval this time. I'm scared to inject tonight, is it going to continue to get worse??? We ended up putting our cat to sleep yesterday. It was a very upsetting and stressful week, and of course I am worried that the stress has affected this cycle.
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:14 PM
 
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Poetgirl what did your re think the cramping was? I have read a bit that it could be ohss. I just never expected it so far after er. It felt like my inside were being chewed apart. I was getting my hair washed and conditioned before it was cut. While lying back in the chair the most painful cramps started. I could not believe I even made it thru my haircut it was so bad. The bleeding is not good. It almost a full flow. It just seems to much for implantation. But it should be to early for af so I am just hoping for the best.
He said it was normal esp. after having such high estrogen before ER. He also mentioned ohss though I never had fluid retention or terrible bloating, just the cramping/bleeding.
I had never heard of that before so I started the thread and a few women shared that they had experienced it too. I also want to stress that I thought my bleeding was too much for implant bleeding because it was so red and fresh, not the few pink drops I was expecting. Take it easy, watch the bleeding (like you're not doing constant tp checks, right?), call your RE if it would be helpful to you. Hopefully, the bleeding will start to taper off. 5dpo is too soon for a period. I was worried that if something was implanting that I was contracting too much for it to stick. Everyone kept telling me this was not the case. Still, I worried about it. At one point, I threw up I was in so much pain. My hunch now (we trans. 3) is that more than one was attempting implantation but one really stuck. I'll try to find that thread for you if it's helpful. Just take this one chunk at a time. I will be sending you relaxing and soothing vibes.

Proud Mama to Liam Greenleaf 5/31/10
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:06 AM
 
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Hi Ladies. May I join you? I've been on the TTC thread, over 40 group for a while now. However, I am currently going through my IVF with DE protocol. I've done all but one BCP and did my 2nd lupron injection tonight. My transfer will take place around December 11th. Anyone else working with DE's? Heatstone and 5terre, it looks like you're both more or less where I am in my cycle.

Brandy, so sorry to hear about your BFN. It's news that all of us are afraid to hear. Be kind to yourself, and stay optimistic about having your little baby sticky bean. Perhaps he/she will arrive in 2010.

I'd love to hear where everyone else is on their journeys, so feel free to send brief updates so that I can get to know you.

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Old 11-14-2009, 06:05 PM
 
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brandyshea Take good care of yourself, I am so sorry.

Jamie, it is good to hear that you are getting some hopeful feedback from your RE. Continue to take it easy on yourself, I know how long and hard your journey has been.

5terre, I am so sorry to hear about your cat. I can only imagine how hard it is for you to deal with your loss in the middle of an already stressful cycle. My advice for you is to do as little as possible (call in sick, don't clean anything, don't shop, don't do a damn thing you don't think will lift you up, if it's not great, bail). I know for myself, the hormones make me feel even more like "my house is dirty and x,y and z need to be done right now". Almost everything can wait. Lay around and watch bad TV or read trashy novels or whatever you need to do to take care of yourself.

to those new to the board, hope your stay here is short and if you haven't heard it before - don't let yourself get constipated!!! Sounds odd, but it is very common in IVF cycles and can be horrible, words cannot describe. for successful cycles.

mama to two DD's, 7 and 3 (3 rounds of IVF and more FET's than I can remember)
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:08 PM
 
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Thanks for the advice crazyrunningmama! I plan to drink ground flaxseeds twice a day when I start my stims, and of course lots of vegies!

5terre, I'm so sorry about your cat. I am a cat lover too and know how much a part of the family they become. Hope the grief becomes less How are the stims treating you now? You mentioned something about your estradiol getting higher - is that a good thing? I ask because I thought that could lead to OHSS (I'm very much an IVF novice so please educate me!)

Seedlings - how are you feeling now? Hope you're feeling better and things have settled down

I had my first (well, my one and only) lupron injection this morning. Is it normal to only have this injection once? I have another 4 days of BCP then start stims next wednesday.

I ordered all my meds today - can't believe how much this all costs I got them through a discount mail order service but still... Seriously this is sooooooo expensive. I don't think I'll ever do another full cycle in the US. I'll go back home where the government pays a massive chunk of the costs.

Poetgirl, I noticed you're in Michigan also. Which clinic did you go to?

First babe due Summer 2010! IVF babe after 3.5 years TTC
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:02 PM
 
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Poetgirl, I noticed you're in Michigan also. Which clinic did you go to?
GL with the meds! It IS incredibly expensive. I went to the Fertility Center in Grand Rapids with Dr. Dodds and Young. I don't know where you are going or live, but they were wonderful. I hope you have a great experience with your clinic too.

Seedlings, I too hope you are doing better.

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Old 11-16-2009, 11:35 PM
 
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Seedlings???

Joyful Are you doing the microdose flare Lupron protocol? You are correct about too high estradiol and OHSS. But you still need it to be high, it is a reflection of how many follicles you have maturing.

Msgoodbuns Welcome!

Well I am feeling blue. Yesterday I was about two days behind, and then today they decided that my lining is too advanced so I have to trigger tonight, even though I only have 1 follicle @ 17.5 and a few others that are 10-15. They are expecting to retrieve up to 5, so we will probably be short of the 6 day-3 embryos we need to biopsy for PGD (which means we will probably have to freeze any that we get and pool them together with more from a future IVF cycle). My E2 was only 649 today, which correlates to about 2 mature follicles. I know I should be happy that I am at least making it to retrieval this time, but I am just so depressed. I'm 32, FSH 5.5, healthy weight, etc, why can't I make eggs like most everyone else my age?
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:06 AM
 
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5terre, I'm sorry about your cat. I had to put my dog to sleep 3 years ago and it was SO hard. I still have dreams about her. I see her running and healthy, not ill with bone cancer in her leg, hobbling around. It's so nice. I assume she's happy and playing up in doggie heaven!

Hopefully you'll have great follicles and all will work out in the end. It only takes one.

At what point should I expect the onset of this lovely constipation? I've been there most every cycle around ovulation for quite some time now, and can only imagine it will be worse while pg and on the PIO.

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Old 11-17-2009, 02:53 AM
 
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At what point should I expect the onset of this lovely constipation? I've been there most every cycle around ovulation for quite some time now, and can only imagine it will be worse while pg and on the PIO.
Well, since you're asking I guess it's not officially TMI. For me, it starts the minute I start messing with my hormones, which means taking bcp's. The suppression (Lupron or Synarel) makes it worse and stims even worse. I keep harping on this cause no one thinks it will happen to them, but it is so very common in IVF cycles (and the nurses said "oh yes, that's common" rather than I don't know, warning me!). Being constipated on ER day is so very unfun. And if you do get a BFP (here's hoping ), you can expect further constipation. My advice: piles and piles of lightly steamed veggies, lots of fluids (unless you are told not to), prunes and dried fruit, applesauce, everything you've ever heard helps.

mama to two DD's, 7 and 3 (3 rounds of IVF and more FET's than I can remember)
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:23 PM
 
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Hello Everyone!!

Msgoodbuns: Welcome!! We are running very close in this cycle! I just started stims last night and have to go back for BW/US on Thursday. I was supposed to get a period in between lupron and the stims but I didn't!! My us/bw yesterday showed that my lining was thin and my levels were good so I guess I begin without one!! Good luck to you!!! Hope everything goes smoothly.

Wishing everyone the best!!
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Old 11-17-2009, 07:58 PM
 
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Joyful Are you doing the microdose flare Lupron protocol?
My RE just gives one large dose of a different form of depot lupron. He says it works just as well and saves you from all those injections!

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Well I am feeling blue. Yesterday I was about two days behind, and then today they decided that my lining is too advanced so I have to trigger tonight, even though I only have 1 follicle @ 17.5 and a few others that are 10-15. They are expecting to retrieve up to 5, so we will probably be short of the 6 day-3 embryos we need to biopsy for PGD (which means we will probably have to freeze any that we get and pool them together with more from a future IVF cycle). My E2 was only 649 today, which correlates to about 2 mature follicles. I know I should be happy that I am at least making it to retrieval this time, but I am just so depressed. I'm 32, FSH 5.5, healthy weight, etc, why can't I make eggs like most everyone else my age?
I can understand how frustrating this must be for you 5terre. I am also 32 and the perfect fit for IVF but I guess only time will tell. Are there other protocols that you could try? I hope with all my heart that this cycle works out for you

Welcome msgoodbuns (great user name!).

Poetgirl, I am going to IVF Michigan. I get a really good vibe from my RE so am hoping for the best.

Good luck to everyone else who is currently cycling!

First babe due Summer 2010! IVF babe after 3.5 years TTC
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Old 11-18-2009, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well just an update. My bleeding never stopped and only became a full flow period. I am just regretting that I did not have her change me to pio instead of the pills. I am sure my progesterone was to low and that is why I started bleeding so fricking early. As all who have been here know I am sad and thats an understatement. I am just trying to let the tears flow and go thru this crappy grief. It is painful and I am not sure what we will do now. I am sure I'll be taking a break and trying to get a plan together. Good luck to everyone and I'll be checking in.
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:16 PM
 
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I am so sorry Seedlings.

mama to two DD's, 7 and 3 (3 rounds of IVF and more FET's than I can remember)
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:10 PM
 
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Oh Seedlings, I am so so sorry, and I am sorry if I made it worse by encouraging you. Do you still have to take a beta? I just hate that this is so hard. You do not deserve to do through this. Jugs of Hugs today
I really am so sorry. My heart is sad to hear this.


5Terre, How did things go for you? I am hoping they were able to get some wondeful eggs. Wishing you the best.

Proud Mama to Liam Greenleaf 5/31/10
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