Health of kids conceived via IVF - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 24 Old 03-30-2014, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Dear mama's of IVF conceived kids,

 

I hope it is ok that I open this conversation. I really want to talk to other IVF moms and to hear their experiences, if possible.

 

Our first child--our son who is almost 9y.o. now--was conceived via IVF.

 

Ever since he was born, not a year has gone by that he would not be "our project" in regards to his health. When he was a baby he would vomit breastmilk all the time (he was exclusively breastfed and later I extendedly breastfed him (tandem nursed) till he was almost 4yo). As a baby/toddler he was an awful sleeper and almost did not nap. Then he developed severe eczema which over the years got infected multiple times (including with staph and MRSA). He had nasty tantrums and night terrors as a toddler/young child. I am a nutritional consultant and herbalist, so I am more or less able to keep his eczema under control in recent years, but only through a very strict diet. He has many food allergies. He had delayed speech. He stutters (while we have no family history of stuttering what so ever). He isn't sensitive of personal boundaries of other people and kids and he is rather socially immature and sometimes even awkward. He often behaves very egotistical and overly self-centered, almost obnoxious. He is short tempered and screams at us and his sister a lot. So there is always something with him, if not one than the other.

 

My younger daughter was conceived naturally and as easy as could be...

 

As crazy as it sounds, sometimes it does make me wonder if he is the way he is because of the way he was conceived. Especially when I compare him to his sister, it feels like she was somehow meant to be here and my son was not :(.

 

I want to point out that I am agnostic, so I definitely do not believe in "anti-god conception being bad" or in any "plan from above" stories.

 

But with so many issues with my son, I cannot help thinking that perhaps he has all those issues because of the way he was conceived. Being agnostic, I am very comfortable with the unknown. I am very comfortable with admitting that I have NO idea how the universe works and if there is anything beyond just luck and coincidence or not. I have no idea whether there is a soul or not. I have no idea what exactly happens and how during the miracle of conception (and if there is a soul, at what point it is being united with the body). So...so much unknown does make me think that we may have gotten into the area we know nothing about, when it comes to IVF.

 

I hope that I am completely wrong and I sooo hope to hear responses from other moms with IVF kids saying that their experience is 100% different from mine. I want to believe that my thoughts and feelings about it is nothing but nonsense. I tried to share these fears with my husband, but he completely shuts down and asks to not say those things anymore.

 

Please share your thoughts and experiences with me.

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#2 of 24 Old 03-31-2014, 09:18 PM
 
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Well you bring up some interesting ideas.
My son is 3 and I don't feel like he acts any particular way being conceived through IVF. He is sometimes high needs but I feel it is because I had a hard pregnancy and was pretty emotional when he was in utero. But that is all the info I have.
I am told a lot though that every child even siblings can be so drastically different like day and night. Could this be one of those scenarios?
Hum, have you googled anything online like a research journal or such?
Okay, curious what others have to say
Best
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#3 of 24 Old 04-03-2014, 05:31 AM
 
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It's interesting and, of course, I don't know. BUT, my first 2 children were both very easily naturally conceived. No stress. Great pregnancies. (We're trying for our third with ivf). And my son is easy as pie and my daughter is very high needs. She was an extremely rough toddler and continues to be a "drama queen". We're a very gentle household which makes it especially difficult when only one person isn't gentle.

ETA - I just realized my profile pic says it all! LOL

I have to just chalk it up to different personalities. As I'm learning the hard way, sometimes there is no rhyme or reason for how things turn out. It's just "luck" (unluck?) of the draw.

(((Hugs)))) to you. It does sound like your son has some special needs. If you haven't already, I'm sure he could benefit from therapy. But I'm sure you're already all over that and that's not what this thread is about.
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#4 of 24 Old 04-03-2014, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much, mamas! Your replies did give me some relief.

 

And thank you for not judging me for having such thoughts about my own child. I do love him very much, of course, but both his personality and constant health problems do make me wonder...

 

I forgot to mention that my son was vaccinated in the first year of life (before I started researching vaccines) and my daughter is completely vaccine free. So, this alone has a potential of contributing to both physical and emotional issues.

 

tracyamber, I did not research the topic. I remember a couple of years ago I tried to google it, but found nothing.

 

I once shared my concerns with a friend of mine (she is an acupuncturist) and she later emailed me this article she came across, which of course did not make me feel any better :(

 

IVF children 'are twice as likely' to suffer poor health

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-469864/IVF-children-twice-likely-suffer-poor-health.html

 

Of course I understand that there are a lot of religious fanatics (even among doctors) who work hard to "proof" their agenda (like anti-god conception, circumcision being beneficial and such), but I would feel much better if there was another study or two saying that there is no difference in kids conceived naturally and via IVF; or better yet, that IVF kids are generally healthier ;)

 

But oh well, so far the best "evidence" for us, moms of IVF kids is talking to each other and sharing our anecdotal stories...

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#5 of 24 Old 04-03-2014, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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He is sometimes high needs...

 

My son was too very high needs when he was a baby/toddler/young child. My husband couldn't even be in OR with me while I had a C-section with my daughter because our son would not stay with anyone (not even with his grandmother who at the time flew in to help), but with dh and me (he was 17mo at the time). I couldn't even go to the bathroom in public places, he would scream bloody murder once I was out of his sight even for a minute.

 

And another thing I forgot to mention is that he is very lazy. He is active, that's not the issue. But he is truly lazy. He even said himself once that he was born to be lazy. This part does make sense to me: while during natural conceptions sperm has to work hard to get to the egg first, fertilize it, then the fertilized egg should do the hard work of traveling and getting to the uterus, etc, during IVF it is all done for them, the sperm is brought to the egg, the embryo delivered to where it needs to be and even the lining of the uterus is artificially thickened so it is easier for the embryo to implant. So I do see how IVF child can be lazy, they never had to struggle to live and exist on the first place.

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#6 of 24 Old 04-03-2014, 12:28 PM
 
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My son was too very high needs when he was a baby/toddler/young child. My husband couldn't even be in OR with me while I had a C-section with my daughter because our son would not stay with anyone (not even with his grandmother who at the time flew in to help), but with dh and me (he was 17mo at the time). I couldn't even go to the bathroom in public places, he would scream bloody murder once I was out of his sight even for a minute.

And another thing I forgot to mention is that he is very lazy. He is active, that's not the issue. But he is truly lazy. He even said himself once that he was born to be lazy. This part does make sense to me: while during natural conceptions sperm has to work hard to get to the egg first, fertilize it, then the fertilized egg should do the hard work of traveling and getting to the uterus, etc, during IVF it is all done for them, the sperm is brought to the egg, the embryo delivered to where it needs to be and even the lining of the uterus is artificially thickened so it is easier for the embryo to implant. So I do see how IVF child can be lazy, they never had to struggle to live and exist on the first place.
Yeah but do you think personality plays a role before the formation of an embryo? Implantation cannot be replicated. If the embryo implants it is because it implants on its own. This is what is so hard about getting pregnant through IVF .If there is no lining then the possibility couldn't exist. The embryo doe not have anything to do with our lining anyway so this could not play in with laziness or not. Humm, I know you are looking for answers but I think it's to soon . You son may just be , himself.... So to speak. Check out the special needs forum. Most of those children are not IVF babies. Maybe you can find or get perspective there. I love dialoging about it though. Please .
http://www.mothering.com/community/f/157/special-needs-parenting
http://www.mothering.com/community/f/370/parenting-the-gifted-child
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#7 of 24 Old 04-03-2014, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah but do you think personality plays a role before the formation of an embryo? Implantation cannot be replicated. If the embryo implants it is because it implants on its own. This is what is so hard about getting pregnant through IVF .If there is no lining then the possibility couldn't exist. The embryo doe not have anything to do with our lining anyway so this could not play in with laziness or not. Humm, I know you are looking for answers but I think it's to soon . You son may just be , himself.... So to speak. Check out the special needs forum. Most of those children are not IVF babies. Maybe you can find or get perspective there. I love dialoging about it though. Please .
http://www.mothering.com/community/f/157/special-needs-parenting
http://www.mothering.com/community/f/370/parenting-the-gifted-child

 

I have been lurking though special needs forum to get perspective on things for years. The strong brave mothers on this forum make me feel like a wimp who keeps complaining over a perfectly healthy child (relatively speaking). Though I do have to say that without a very strict diet, which excludes all his "silent" food allergens, he would have been a mess (both physically and emotionally). And if I was a mother who would look to have her child's sensory things diagnosed (because he clearly has some issues in this department), I am sure doctors would find a suitable label for him, too. So I guess he is lucky to be "normal" and "healthy" because his mom does nutritional consultations for living and uses natural methods of solving his problems.

 

But in the end, I can speculate till I blue in the face why he is the way he is, but maybe he is just who he is (with some degree of vaccine damage, I believe).

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#8 of 24 Old 04-03-2014, 01:01 PM
 
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I have been lurking though special needs forum to get perspective on things for years. The strong brave mothers on this forum make me feel like a wimp who keeps complaining over a perfectly healthy child (relatively speaking). Though I do have to say that without a very strict diet, which excludes all his "silent" food allergens, he would have been a mess (both physically and emotionally). And if I was a mother who would look to have her child's sensory things diagnosed (because he clearly has some issues in this department), I am sure doctors would find a suitable label for him, too. So I guess he is lucky to be "normal" and "healthy" because his mom does nutritional consultations for living and uses natural methods of solving his problems.

But in the end, I can speculate till I blue in the face why he is the way he is, but maybe he is just who he is (with some degree of vaccine damage, I believe).
Oh yeah I forgot about the vaccines you mentioned. I will come back later as my toddler is pulling my shirt
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#9 of 24 Old 04-03-2014, 02:27 PM
 
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There are a lot of differences between the children of IVF and other children that the study you mention doesn't take into consideration - I've heard (and I wish I had the study to hand - I think it was out of Australia?  There was a huge one out of Australia that I thought seemed very methodologically sound) that the issues with IVF children are the same as the issues for other children of older parents (it usually takes years to jump to IVF, so IVF parents are usually older parents) or for any parents who struggled with infertility, even if the children were conceived naturally.  Which doesn't end up being very reassuring when you're watching the months (...years) go by with no baby! 

 

(One thing that *is* an issue, from what I've heard, is that there's a slight increase in male fertility issues in children conceived with ICSI, though I feel like ICSI hasn't been around long enough to really test that well!  Wikipedia has the first birth in 1990...)

 

I do wish we had more studies that I felt were trustworthy on both the IVF and vaccine topics.

 

I worry that anecdotes make for a very bad research sample - OTOH, so do many of the studies I've seen... 


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#10 of 24 Old 04-03-2014, 06:57 PM
 
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Just a side note, you can easily get therapy and treatment without a diagnoses. We don't have a diagnosis and my dd is in speech therapy and it has helped tremendously. Being able to more clearly express herself has helped us meet her needs and made everyone's life easier.


But, here are a couple studies that show ART kids do NOT have more problems. One study specifically noted that a previous study failed to take the gender issue into effect. Since boys are more likely to have autistic-like symptoms and boys are more common in ivf, a study could wrongly conclude IVF causes autism. See how the problem is much more complicated than it first appears?

Also, I have to agree with @tracyamber. A bundle of cells can't have a personality. A single sperm cell can't decide, "eh, that breaking into the zone pellucida looks like too much work. I think I'll just die instead". Each of the cells and the developing embryo is swept along the natural process. There is no brain. No thought process. They are each just following their pre determined genetic instructions. Honestly, you're giving a whole personality to something that is a cell or a clump of cells. It no more has a personality and a thought process than a bit of toenail or a drop of blood. What it DOES have is potential, but in that moment it is nothing but a clump of cells.

If you really think about it. An ivf embryo has to be stronger than a naturally conceived embryo because the external environment and the lab is so much harsher than the natural environment. I would be more likely to believe they were harmed by the lab than that they were somehow weaker to begin with.

These studies show equivalent health with ivf kids and naturally conceived kids: .


http://mobile.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/ivf-children-are-just-as-healthy-and-smart-as-those-conceived-normally/story-fnet08ck-1226832530534

http://www.m.webmd.com/children/news/20131106/ivf-conception-doesnt-seem-to-raise-kids-cancer-risk-study

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/779865

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/02/20/ivf-kids-grow-healthy-adults-study-1

And for a very inclusive article of previous studies read this one, especially the summary and conclusions section.

http://depts.washington.edu/isei/iyc/20.1_squire.pdf
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#11 of 24 Old 04-04-2014, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Just a side note, you can easily get therapy and treatment without a diagnoses. We don't have a diagnosis and my dd is in speech therapy and it has helped tremendously. Being able to more clearly express herself has helped us meet her needs and made everyone's life easier.


But, here are a couple studies that show ART kids do NOT have more problems. One study specifically noted that a previous study failed to take the gender issue into effect. Since boys are more likely to have autistic-like symptoms and boys are more common in ivf, a study could wrongly conclude IVF causes autism. See how the problem is much more complicated than it first appears?

Also, I have to agree with @tracyamber. A bundle of cells can't have a personality. A single sperm cell can't decide, "eh, that breaking into the zone pellucida looks like too much work. I think I'll just die instead". Each of the cells and the developing embryo is swept along the natural process. There is no brain. No thought process. They are each just following their pre determined genetic instructions. Honestly, you're giving a whole personality to something that is a cell or a clump of cells. It no more has a personality and a thought process than a bit of toenail or a drop of blood. What it DOES have is potential, but in that moment it is nothing but a clump of cells.

If you really think about it. An ivf embryo has to be stronger than a naturally conceived embryo because the external environment and the lab is so much harsher than the natural environment. I would be more likely to believe they were harmed by the lab than that they were somehow weaker to begin with.

These studies show equivalent health with ivf kids and naturally conceived kids: .


http://mobile.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/ivf-children-are-just-as-healthy-and-smart-as-those-conceived-normally/story-fnet08ck-1226832530534

http://www.m.webmd.com/children/news/20131106/ivf-conception-doesnt-seem-to-raise-kids-cancer-risk-study

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/779865

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/02/20/ivf-kids-grow-healthy-adults-study-1

And for a very inclusive article of previous studies read this one, especially the summary and conclusions section.

http://depts.washington.edu/isei/iyc/20.1_squire.pdf

Thank you so much for the links, I will definitely check them out today. I am just so happy to know that some studies came to a different conclusion!!

 

My son has been working with one of the best speech therapist in our state (she actually trained moth stuttering therapists in our state and does nothing but stuttering) for well over a year now and it does help somewhat. The problem why it doesn't help more is because he is darn LAZY. He never had blocks, which is good, so he never had difficulty communicating what he needs to communicate. With him, it is yapping and repeating words over and over. So while he does beautiful easy talk during therapy and during our easy talk practices at home and car, he is too lazy and unmotivated to work harder to implement his easy talk strategies in day by day life. Even the speech therapist, after a year of struggle with him, had to admit that a big part of such poor progress is his laziness.

He also used to meet with a wonderful play therapist, until he became adamant about stopping to see her (regardless of the fact that he loved her a lot) because the "time she was taking away from his free time and playing with friends time". Go figure...

 

And no, of course there is no scientific explanation to the IVF-laziness connection. You ladies are absolutely right, there is no brain at that point. But just like sometimes science cannot explain how very small doses, like a one tincture drop of some herbs (or energetic traces of herb in homeopathy) can change your heart rate or your energy (make you more airy or more grounded within a split of a second of that hitting your tongue, depending of the herbs energetics), I think in the same way science may have no explanation for other things. I do feel it in my gut (I know, not very scientific ;) that when a sperm has to race to meet the egg, when it has to FIGHT for the chance to create life and to exist (even if instinctively), then when a fertilized egg has to have all right instincts in place to travel to where it needs to be, such embryo does energetically feel more vital to me, with more driving life force than an IVF embryo. Obviously we will never know, but I do sometimes put a lot of trust into my intuition and my gut feeling.

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#12 of 24 Old 04-04-2014, 11:55 AM
 
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I don't have time to read the replies but my thoughts would be that everything being equal IVF babies are no different than any other babies - I mean it's ridiculous to compare the naturally conceived baby of a healthy 24 year old couple with a 44 year old couple with health issues doing IVF. 

But compare a 35 year old couple doing IVF and a 35 year old couple conceiving naturally and I can't see how there would be a difference. Although I actually wonder if IVF babies wouldn't be better off, especially if ICSI is involved. You are literally hand picking "the best one" as far as sperm, then egg, then embryo. 

 

I have three IVF babies. They are all healthy and bright. 

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#13 of 24 Old 08-07-2014, 11:34 AM
 
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This is something I had never even thought about until the fertility clinic I used posted this as well as this article on their facebook page. I felt terrible at first for not even considering it before jumping into fertility treatments, but to be honest, it's not something my doctor ever brought up at our meetings. I think other environmental and genetic factors would play a much larger role.

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#14 of 24 Old 08-23-2014, 08:02 AM
 
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My IVF baby (GIFT) is 24 years old and was a robust, healthy baby, child and now young adult. However, she did have a vaccine reaction to DPT twice, which (I believe) lead to mild(ish) ADD which while it has brought difficulties, she has learned to manage in her life.
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#15 of 24 Old 08-23-2014, 08:17 AM
 
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Good friends have IVF triplets who were 32 weekers. Hit all milestones early including walking at 8 months unadjusted!
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#16 of 24 Old 08-23-2014, 12:57 PM
 
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My IVF baby (GIFT) is 24 years old and was a robust, healthy baby, child and now young adult. However, she did have a vaccine reaction to DPT twice, which (I believe) lead to mild(ish) ADD which while it has brought difficulties, she has learned to manage in her life.

That is awesome. I had no idea!


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#17 of 24 Old 08-23-2014, 01:32 PM
 
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That is awesome. I had no idea!

Yes! My younger two were conceived naturally. Different father, with my ex we were dealing with male factor infertility. It took 4 years, many months of failed IUIs, and one successful GIFT procedure, with 7 eggs! Just one baby. This took place in Hong Kong where they didn't see the ethical issue with transferring so many eggs.
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#18 of 24 Old 08-23-2014, 02:15 PM
 
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Yes! My younger two were conceived naturally. Different father, with my ex we were dealing with male factor infertility. It took 4 years, many months of failed IUIs, and one successful GIFT procedure, with 7 eggs! Just one baby. This took place in Hong Kong where they didn't see the ethical issue with transferring so many eggs.

Honestly I had never heard of GIFT before. I just googled it. Wow! I don't think it is used too much these days. 7 eggs and only one baby? Wow, were you afraid of triplets or twins?


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#19 of 24 Old 08-23-2014, 02:42 PM
 
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Honestly I had never heard of GIFT before. I just googled it. Wow! I don't think it is used too much these days. 7 eggs and only one baby? Wow, were you afraid of triplets or twins?


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More like four or five!
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#20 of 24 Old 08-24-2014, 08:55 PM
 
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Health of kids conceived via IVF

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More like four or five!

May I ask, did you go to Hong Kong to have this done or were you living there? Was it hard to find a place in the U.S. To do GIFT? I hope I'm not being nosey, just curious and still a bit in awe that I had not heard of this procedure. My husband and I had ICSI done with our first child who is now three. Dh sperm barely moved and count is low so I'm sure even being put in Fallopian tubes would not have worked for us. Our second child which is on the way, we have used donor eggs as it took us so long to get pregnant again, I aged, and it seemed the best way.


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#21 of 24 Old 08-25-2014, 07:12 AM
 
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May I ask, did you go to Hong Kong to have this done or were you living there? Was it hard to find a place in the U.S. To do GIFT? I hope I'm not being nosey, just curious and still a bit in awe that I had not heard of this procedure. My husband and I had ICSI done with our first child who is now three. Dh sperm barely moved and count is low so I'm sure even being put in Fallopian tubes would not have worked for us. Our second child which is on the way, we have used donor eggs as it took us so long to get pregnant again, I aged, and it seemed the best way.


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I was living in Hong Kong at the time. My doctor was one of the pioneers of the procedure in Hong Kong. My ex had high level of abnormal sperm and very low mobility. The doctor put seven eggs back because he really wanted this to work for us! I didn't have a complication-free pregnancy though. I had a lot of bleeding until at least 12 weeks, I sometimes wonder if that was related to the number of eggs. I had to have natural progesterone shots, I think up until 14 weeks (it was so long ago, I forget!). I had a friend back then who tried ICSI, but it failed, her DH went to a homeopath and within a few weeks she was pregnant, she went on to have another baby naturally also.

Congrats on your pregnancy!

ETA: This conversation has really taken me down memory lane! I just looked up my doc and he is still practicing and still does GIFT!
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"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci


Last edited by Mirzam; 08-25-2014 at 07:40 AM.
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#22 of 24 Old Yesterday, 05:39 PM
 
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I have a 6 year old daughter conceived "naturally," who, while wonderful and bright, does have some sensory, visual-motor, and anxiety issues. We are about to do an ICSI IVF cycle (dh has low count and motility), and most of my worries have to do with being 38 years old, dh 44, and being on antidepressant medication. Why are boys more likely to be conceived with ICSI? I am hoping so much for a boy!

Aimee, mom to Mirah b. 08/09/08
and my angel, Nico, , lost to us at 19 weeks gestation, 12/27/12
Longing for our rainbow
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#23 of 24 Old Yesterday, 06:08 PM
 
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I've never heard there are more boys with ICSI. We ended up with three girls but I hope you get your wish Good Luck!

mama to three little ladies
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#24 of 24 Old Yesterday, 06:59 PM
 
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I've read just the opposite about ICSI - that there's a slightly greater chance of a girl. We did IVF with ICSI and had a girl.
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