Charting To Avoid February 2009 Thread - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome to the charting to avoid February 2009 thread. If you would like to be added or removed (or have anything changed) from the roll call list, please let me know by PMing me. PM me if you'd like to start next month's thread.

Here's a link to last month's January 2009 Thread

If you did not post in January, you have been deleted from the list. If you were mistakenly deleted, or you would like to be added/removed, please PM me and let me know. I can not promise to make changes requested in the thread, but I will try to get to everything.

*Charting/Using FAM/NFP to AVOID*

who we are:

* = active member

akaisha - since 04/08
angelxxrose - since 08/08
AnnieA - since 12/07
BarefootScientist - since 08/08 and 12 cycles in '05-'06
cahwilson - since 01/09
CanidFL - CTA since 06/08
ccasanova - CTA since 12/08 + 4 mos prior
cfiddlinmama - CTA since 11/07 + more prior
Danielle283 - since 02/09
DucetteMama21842 - (babymed) (FF) since 11/08
heather719 - since 01/09
Juliacat - CTA since 03/08 mo, +33 cycles prior from 2001-2004
ladyinred - since 06/08
mamaspirit - CTA since 11/08 + more prior
MarineMommy - CTA since 10/08
MarineWife - FF Ovusoft since 06/08
miriam_bat_avraham -
momongeon
mommy2twobabes - CTA since 7/08
MovingMomma - since 02/09 + some time before
nichole
ReikiMommy07 CTA since 08/08
Shell_Ell - (FF) (OS) since 11/04 (15 cycles)
Shelsi
Sihaya -
Teenytoona - since 02/09
Twinklefae - since 05/08
wannaBmom_NICU_RN - since 01/09

Graduates (no longer charting to avoid)
maggirayne -- CTA 02/08-10/08
JuicyPakwan - CTA 06/07 - 06/08 (?)
jul511riv - CTA 17 mo
Mrs_Lurker - CTA 11 mo
augustinem -- cta 6 mo
DanelleB - 12/07 - 05/08
Runner29 - CTA since 07/07 + 2 years previous
ShwarmaQueen - CTA since 09/07
BananaBreadGirl - CTA for 2 years
Othermother'n'madre - 02/08-10/08
sk8ermaiden - 09/07-10/08
texaspeach - 10/04 - 01/09

Happy charting!

Summary of FAM rules (sympto-thermal)

Pre-ovulation rules:

1) First 5 Days Rule: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had an obvious temp shift 12-16 days before.

2) Dry day rule: You are safe to DTD after 6PM if you have been dry all day.

Post ovulation rules:

1) Peak day rule: the last day of fertile mucous is called the peak day (the day before your mucous begins to dry up). You are safe to DTD on the fourth consecutive day after the peak day. If another patch of more fertile mucous appears, start your count over.

2) Temperature shift rule: You are safe the evening of the third consecutive day your temp is above your coverline. If your temp falls at or below the coverline during the 3 day count, begin your count again.

BOTH rules must be satisfied to be considered in your infertile phase.

How to set a coverline:

When you see a temperature shift of at least 0.2 degrees F above the highest of the previous 6 temps, draw a line 0.1 degrees F above that highest temp.

Resources

Books:
Taking Charge of Your Fertility, by Toni Weschler
Garden of Fertility and Honoring Our Cycles workbook, by Katie Singer
The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Sheila Kippley
Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing: How Ecological Breastfeeding Spaces Babies by Sheila Kippley
Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon

Websites:
Ovusoft charting software, and brief fertility library
Fertility Friend charting software, and ttc charting guide
Author Katie Singer's Garden of Fertility website
Billings Ovulation Method info
Billings Ovulation Method Association, USA
Billings Centre, CA
Couple to Couple League (find an NFP instructor)
Creighton Model


Abbreviations:
AF: Aunt Flo, your period
BFP: what we are trying to avoid, a positive pregnancy test
CD: Cycle day
CM: cervical mucous (same as CF)
CF: cervical fluid (same as CM)
DPO: Days past ovulation
DTD: Do the deed
GIO: get it on
EWCM: eggwhite cervical mucous/fluid
LP: Luteal phase - the time from ovulation until your period, average 10-16 days

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#2 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 03:05 PM
 
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Thanks for starting the new thread! I'm thrilled to disagree with FF and say that I O'd on cd 20. I feel very confident that was my day combining my temp and cf knowledge. So that makes me four days post-O. :
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#3 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 04:31 PM
 
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Posting so I don't get deleted from the list next month!

I've been consistently Oing on or after CD 19 since AF returned after DS was born, so I figured it was safe to DTD unprotected on CD7 this cycle. This morning's temp is freaking me out. I know getting pg from BDing 6 days before O is rare, but we're so fertile that I wouldn't be surprised. Really hoping today's temp was a fluke and I don't O for a while yet.

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#4 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 04:46 PM
 
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So, another question from the newbie

I know I have had like 3days of EWCF (yesterday was a mixture with definate EWCF) and then my temp yesterday really jumped! from 96.8 to 98! There was also a huge time difference though. 96.8 was at 4:45am and 98 was at 7:30. Could it be the difference in time or could I have already O'ed? I shouldnt O for another 7days but who knows.... any ideas? I am closed, or at least much as I ever am, and firm http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/heather719
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#5 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 05:03 PM
 
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I'm new to the thread, but not new to CTA. Although it's been 7 years, so I'm brushing up on my skills! We use NFP, following the guidelines in TaoNFP.

It looks like I just O'd, but I think we'll wait another day to be sure b/c we are highly motivated to avoid at the moment. This is a post-miscarriage cycle.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#6 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 05:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heather719 View Post
96.8 was at 4:45am and 98 was at 7:30. Could it be the difference in time or could I have already O'ed? [/url]
Temping at the same time daily is very important. I do find, however, that adjusting 1/10th of a degree for each half hour seems to be a fair approximation for those times when we miss temping on time for some reason. And I calculate about 97.3 or 97.4 for yours, adjusted.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#7 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 06:45 PM
 
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Oops, posted on the other thread! I'll repost here.

Hi, can I join? I've been Mirena free since August, and starting seriously CTA about 4 cycles ago. I'm kinda confused by this month though, could somebody take a look at my chart and if they think I've O'd yet? http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/225b89 I know I need 3 high temps, but I thought thats what I had already. FF isnt saying I O'd yet. My temps so far this month are different from the past months, so I'm confused. Would you say I'm safe to DTD tonight??

Mama to a 6 year old diva, and new little man July 2011.

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#8 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome, Shannon. Sorry about the miscarriage.

DucetteMama21842 ~ I don't think you Oed until CD22. It's not until after that day that your temps go up.

Danielle283 ~ That's strange. It looks to me like you are 3-5dpo.

Sihaya ~ Personally, I think it's virtually impossible to get pg from dtd 6 days before O so I wouldn't worry.

heather719 ~ I agree with Shannon. The huge time difference is probably what accounts for the much higher temp. Adjusted, I'd put it at 97.4-97.5, which is ok with your other temps so far.

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#9 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 09:14 PM
 
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Wedneday my CP was so high I could barely reach it and now it is definately lower. All the week before I had CM including some EWCF ending on Wed. Now there is just small amounts of CM which I don't think is fertile, just regular secretions. I really wish I had starting temping earlier, b/c I only have 3 days of temps to go by. I think we are okay b/c Wed was four days ago.

I'm so paranoid. I might go get an OPK haha.
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#10 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 10:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post

DucetteMama21842 ~ I don't think you Oed until CD22. It's not until after that day that your temps go up.
I know that's officially when my temps are much higher than the previous ones, however... my cf was LOTS of EW fertile CF on cd20, with EW, but "chunky" infertile cf on cd21. My cf has been completely dry since then as well... so I set my coverline to 97.64 because that just seemed more accurate, as well as I've never had any temps fall below my coverline in the past, as well as I'm always done with my cf immediately within the next 24 hours after ovulation. So I just kind of took that personal knowledge and made my best interpretation. Could it still be wrong, given that extra info?
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#11 of 282 Old 02-01-2009, 10:45 PM
 
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Oh... and I had a negative OPK on cd 21 and cd 22... the second line getting lighter each day.
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#12 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 02:09 AM
 
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Happy February!!

So I just read the rules again! SOmething jumped out at me. THe first 5 days rule. My LP was 11 days, AF was 6 days with spotting on day 7 and 8. DH and I dtd UNPROTECTED on 7 and 8. DH did pull out. AM I safe?? I was dry all day yesterday with a little spotting, and today I've had spotting and some watery cf. I feel safe, I haven't O'd before CD 17 since I've been charting ( only 4 months). Rambling now. ANyone care to comment? Thanks!
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#13 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 10:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DucetteMama21842 View Post
my cf was LOTS of EW fertile CF on cd20, with EW, but "chunky" infertile cf on cd21. My cf has been completely dry since then as well...
TaoNFP says to count any fertile CM (1/2" stretch or greater) during a day as a fertile CM day...not as a drying up day.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#14 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 10:18 AM
 
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Thanks guys, the adjusted temp makes much more sense to me! I will make sure to take it at the same time more consistantly. M-F is no problem, weekends are harder though. I expect to O on Saturday though so I really want to take it, for curiousity really, lol.

MarineMommy - I would love to comment but somehow dont think I would be much help. My guess would be that your ok but I really dont know what I am talking about,
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#15 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 11:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MarineMommy View Post
AM I safe?? I was dry all day yesterday with a little spotting, and today I've had spotting and some watery cf.
Well, I won't say whether you're safe or not. It all depends on how conservative you want to be! Remember that CM creates a better environment for sperm. If you want to be more conservative, you might do CM checks at the cervix, as that can yield CM earlier than external observations.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#16 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 11:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingMomma View Post
TaoNFP says to count any fertile CM (1/2" stretch or greater) during a day as a fertile CM day...not as a drying up day.
cd21 didn't stretch, there was just lots of it. cd22 was very dry. Can a dry day really be our ovulation day?
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#17 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 11:38 AM
 
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Hi everyone. Checking in here briefly. I definitly was not pregnant and I am very happy about it (now). I always feel like such an idiot for thinking I might be (which is not a very good reason to want to be pregnant) lol Since my dd has had lots of health issues with leaky gut and food allergies I want to be damn sure I am healthy before getting pregnant again. We are still in the midst of gut healing so I am going to make sure I play by the rules from now on.

MarineMommy- I'm sure you're safe. Pulling out seems to be pretty effective and I would think it would be rare to get pregnant at that point in the cycle, but I'm not positive on that.

Oh by the way, I was miserably tired during my period. I think this is the first real period I've had and I could barely drag myself out of bed (thats why I haven't been online). Does that mean anything? Like I'm low on minerals or something? Dh kept asking if I was okay b/c I looked so pasty white.
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#18 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 11:46 AM
 
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I can't wait for a new cycle to start, this not temping is driving me :
I am CD 20 right now and I am relativly certina that I oed CD 15-16 (CP CM OPK)
I have been completely dry since then so we DTD unprotected last night.
Lets just say I am waiting for AF. No more cycles of not temping.

Mommy to Petunia 11/04 Bug 10/06 Button 11/09 and  Sweetie pea 12/11 DW to J :

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#19 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 11:54 AM
 
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hi ladies. Just checking in for Feb. I'm still waiting on my IUD since my midwife hasn't ordered it yet. So I'm still charting away. I am pretty sure I o'd and a third high temp tomorrow will confirm it.

Has anyone charted with an IUD? I plan to continue since my cycles are so unpredictable.
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#20 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DucetteMama21842
Could it still be wrong, given that extra info?...Can a dry day really be our ovulation day?
The only way to be sure of O with charting is temps. None of that other stuff definitively confirms O. It only tells you when you are potentially fertile or not. You don't even need to keep track of CF and CP in order to chart and confirm O. You can have all the signs of being fertile and not O. Yes, a dry day can be the actual day of O. I think TCOYF even says most of the time O day is the day after your peak day or at least a lot of the time. In order to be absolutely safe, I really think you shouldn't confirm O until you have had at least 3 consecutive high temps. Not only will that help ensure you don't dtd unprotected before you are truly safe, it also won't get you ahead of yourself about when you expect AF and then start worrying because she's late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineMommy
THe first 5 days rule. My LP was 11 days, AF was 6 days with spotting on day 7 and 8. DH and I dtd UNPROTECTED on 7 and 8. DH did pull out. AM I safe?? I was dry all day yesterday with a little spotting, and today I've had spotting and some watery cf.
If you didn't have any CF on cd7 and 8, you should have been safe. The first 5 days rule is just there so that you don't have to worry about checking CF because you can't distinguish CF amongst AF, if that makes sense. Once you get past the first 5 days, you need to start paying attention to CF. If you were dry or only had a little spotting that was AF tapering off, I'd think you were safe.

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#21 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 02:26 PM
 
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yay my opk was negative.
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#22 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 02:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
In order to be absolutely safe, I really think you shouldn't confirm O until you have had at least 3 consecutive high temps.
:

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#23 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by nichole View Post
I think we are okay b/c Wed was four days ago.
If you've had 4 dry days in a row without any CF at all, I think you could consider yourself relatively safe. If you have any CF at all, though, I wouldn't risk it. I've never been able to determine the difference between plain vag secretions and CF. Anyone have any insight into that?

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#24 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 03:42 PM
 
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7 DPO over here. expect AF in 5-6 days. i really hope i don't O on CD 13 again next cycle, i'm getting kind of sick of this. :
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#25 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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7 DPO over here. expect AF in 5-6 days. i really hope i don't O on CD 13 again next cycle, i'm getting kind of sick of this. :
Sick of what, nice, short, predictable cycles?

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#26 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 04:42 PM
 
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I just have to say.... you guys are a wealth of info!!!!!

I am just soaking it all in, picking up pieces here and there. I would like to know if there is a difference/if so what is it, between fertile CF and secretions? TCOYF (the most recent edition) has really nice color pics of the different types of CF. This has been really helpful for me as I am a newbie, but is there something else I should know about? I am on CD11 and "expect" to O around CD16 but have had CF for the last 5 days. Could I just start with CF really early? Could this be "secretions"? Or is it just possible I am going to O earlier than I have in the past several cycles? Ok, I think thats it for the questions.... lol

P.S. I did adjust my temp on my late BBT day. Today it was back down to 97.1
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#27 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 05:02 PM
 
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Thank you so much MarineWife for answering all my questions! I just set my ff to FAM and it says cd22 so I will go with that. I just swore I remembered her saying that ewcf is the kind of cervical fluid for O. Don't worry.. I got my third temp above the previous 6 and won't be dtd until dh gets back from his business trip.
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#28 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 05:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
If you've had 4 dry days in a row without any CF at all, I think you could consider yourself relatively safe. If you have any CF at all, though, I wouldn't risk it. I've never been able to determine the difference between plain vag secretions and CF. Anyone have any insight into that?
Insight... No. All I can say is that you really have to pay attention to it and record exactly what you see or feel every day and/or every time you check, with no interpretations. The more experience you have, the more you'll be able to tell. But it does take time, and certainly practice.
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#29 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 05:50 PM
 
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Sick of what, nice, short, predictable cycles?
Oing early, . but i know i have it easy so i'm not actually complaining.
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#30 of 282 Old 02-02-2009, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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heather ~ I'm not quite sure what you are confused about. What you are describing sounds normal to me. There are 4 different types of CF; sticky, creamy, watery and eggwhite. Not every woman will have all 4 kinds or all 4 kinds every cycle. Some women don't have dry days and go straight from AF to sticky. Those women can consider sticky their BIP if they are sure they never have any dry days or if they have long cycles (such as with breastfeeding) and have had unchanging dry/sticky cf for at least 2 weeks. I'm not sure if there's any day requirement to that. Someone else might know.

The description in TCOYF of plain vag secretions is that they dry quickly on your finger. It's been a while since I read it but I think it says to get some on your fingers and, without looking at it, feel it between your fingers and wave your fingers around a little to see if it dries up and disappears quickly. If it does dry up quickly, you can consider that normal vag secretions rather than CF and so a dry day. I assume it is clear but I don't really know that. I also assume that anything that has any color to it is CF although CF can also be clear. I have never been able to recognize this with myself but that may be because I don't have truly dry days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DucetteMama21842
I just swore I remembered her saying that ewcf is the kind of cervical fluid for O.
EWCF is the most fertile CF because it is the most hospitable to sperm. It also signifies possible impending O because it reflects high estrogen levels. It does not, however, gaurantee that O has or will occur. Some women never get ew or even watery CF and have to consider creamy as their most fertile CF. They can and do get pregnant. That's why you can't consider creamy your BIP or safe if it happens for a day or two after your last day of watery or ewcf. You are still potentially fertile. I think TCOYF will even reset your peak day to the last day of creamy cf even if it occurs after a watery or ewcf day.

[quote=akaisha]Oing early,...but i know i have it easy so i'm not actually complaining.[quote]

No worries. I was just teasing you. Is O on cd13 early or just early for you? I'd love to O on cd13 every cycle, although I guess I might get annoyed at having AF every 26-28 days. At least it would be easier to determine when I'm fertile and when I'm not and not have to go for weeks and weeks being cautious or having no clue.

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