April 2009 Charting to Avoid Thread - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 313 Old 04-01-2009, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome to the charting to avoid April 2009 thread. If you would like to be added or removed (or have anything changed) from the roll call list, please let me know by PMing me. PM me if you'd like to start next month's thread.

Here's a link to last month's March 2009

If you did not post in March, you have been deleted from the list. If you were mistakenly deleted, or you would like to be added/removed, please PM me and let me know. I can not promise to make changes requested in the thread, but I will try to get to everything.

*Charting/Using FAM/NFP to AVOID*

who we are:

* = active member

akaisha - since 04/08
angelxxrose - since 08/08
AnnieA - since 12/07
annie2186
BarefootScientist - since 08/08 and 12 cycles in '05-'06
bandyr - CTA for 3.5 years

ccasanova - CTA since 12/08 + 4 mos prior
Danielle283 - since 02/09
DucetteMama21842 - (babymed) (FF) since 11/08
heather719 - since 01/09
ladyinred - since 06/08
Laggie
mamaspirit - CTA since 11/08 + more prior
MarineMommy - CTA since 10/08
MarineWife - FF Ovusoft since 06/08
miriam_bat_avraham -
momongeon - CTA
MovingMomma - since 02/09 + some time before
nichole - CTA
ReikiMommy07 CTA since 08/08
Shelsi -
Sihaya -
Smylingeyz - CTA since 06/08
Teenytoona - since 02/09
twilight girl - since 08/07
Twinklefae - since 05/08
Virginia884 - since 02/09
wannaBmom_NICU_RN - since 01/09
Graduates (no longer charting to avoid)
maggirayne -- CTA 02/08-10/08
JuicyPakwan - CTA 06/07 - 06/08 (?)
jul511riv - CTA 17 mo
Mrs_Lurker - CTA 11 mo
augustinem -- cta 6 mo
DanelleB - 12/07 - 05/08
Runner29 - CTA since 07/07 + 2 years previous
ShwarmaQueen - CTA since 09/07
BananaBreadGirl - CTA for 2 years
sk8ermaiden - 09/07-10/08
texaspeach - 10/04 - 01/09
cfiddlinmama - CTA since 11/07 + more prior
CanidFL - CTA since 06/08
Shell_Ell - (FF) (OS) since 11/04 (15 cycles)
Juliacat - CTA since 03/08 mo, +33 cycles prior from 2001-2004
mommy2twobabes - CTA since 7/08
Othermother'n'madre - CTA since 02/08
cahwilson - since 01/09

Pregnancies per Month (due to user error unless otherwise noted)
February - at least 1
March - 2
April - 2

Happy charting!

Summary of FAM rules (sympto-thermal)

Pre-ovulation rules:

1) First 5 Days Rule: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had an obvious temp shift 12-16 days before.

2) Dry day rule: You are safe to DTD after 6PM if you have been dry all day.

Post ovulation rules:

1) Peak day rule: the last day of fertile mucous is called the peak day (the day before your mucous begins to dry up). You are safe to DTD on the fourth consecutive day after the peak day. If another patch of more fertile mucous appears, start your count over.

2) Temperature shift rule: You are safe the evening of the third consecutive day your temp is above your coverline. If your temp falls at or below the coverline during the 3 day count, begin your count again.

BOTH rules must be satisfied to be considered in your infertile phase.

How to set a coverline:

When you see a temperature shift of at least 0.2 degrees F above the highest of the previous 6 temps, draw a line 0.1 degrees F above that highest temp.

Resources

Books:
Taking Charge of Your Fertility, by Toni Weschler
Garden of Fertility and Honoring Our Cycles workbook, by Katie Singer
The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Sheila Kippley
Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing: How Ecological Breastfeeding Spaces Babies by Sheila Kippley
Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon

Websites:
Ovusoft charting software, and brief fertility library
Fertility Friend charting software, and ttc charting guide
Author Katie Singer's Garden of Fertility website
Billings Ovulation Method info
Billings Ovulation Method Association, USA
Billings Centre, CA
Couple to Couple League (find an NFP instructor)
Creighton Model


Abbreviations:
AF: Aunt Flo, your period
BFP: what we are trying to avoid, a positive pregnancy test
CD: Cycle day
CM: cervical mucous (same as CF)
CF: cervical fluid (same as CM)
DPO: Days past ovulation
DTD: Do the deed
GIO: get it on
EWCM: eggwhite cervical mucous/fluid
LP: Luteal phase - the time from ovulation until your period, average 10-16 days
LTL: low temp level (basically 1/10th below FAM's CL or on the highest of the 6 previous temps)
HTL: high temp level (4/10ths above LTL, temp rise needed to indicate O)

knit.gifSAHM to 3 boys and 1 man; 22 jammin.gif, 9REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, 5 FIREdevil.gifand now 1 year oldtoddler.gif!

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#2 of 313 Old 04-01-2009, 11:00 PM
 
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I was wondering if any of you ladies could answer a question for me....

I just had a baby 4 weeks ago, when should I start charting? It slipped my mind right afterwards (for obvious reasons) and now I'm just not sure what a good starting point would be. I was thinking that it's probably not important until we introduce solids, but I'm not sure.

Bri: mom to K: and M: at 27 weeks and 33 weeks :
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#3 of 313 Old 04-01-2009, 11:40 PM
 
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Depending on your situation (what your breastfeeding relationship looks like, how compelling your desire to avoid is, etc.) you'll want to start charting anywhere from now to (possibly) years from now.

I highly recommend Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing. Look at the standards for LAM, and if you don't meet all of them, you may want to start charting now. I'm assuming you haven't had a PPAF yet.

And welcome!

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#4 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 12:00 AM
 
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I'm just starting with charting to avoid. I got my IUD out yesterday and we're not ready yet to have a baby, but that sucker needed to come out. The resources listed here look great!

Mama to DD (5) DD (3) and DS (2 months)
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#5 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 12:18 AM
 
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Checking in for April...Cycle 3 day 7 here, Had a very successful cycle 2 which was exciting, even had a pre-AF temp drop...so cool! I love being in the know about my body!

Melissa, NICU nurse, married to DH since 6/07, biggrinbounce.gifDS 5/31/10 h20homebirth.gif, Baby # 2 due 12/10/12 ***4***8stork-suprise.gif**12***16***20***24***28***32***36***40 

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#6 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 12:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingMomma View Post
Depending on your situation (what your breastfeeding relationship looks like, how compelling your desire to avoid is, etc.) you'll want to start charting anywhere from now to (possibly) years from now.

I highly recommend Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing. Look at the standards for LAM, and if you don't meet all of them, you may want to start charting now. I'm assuming you haven't had a PPAF yet.

And welcome!
I exclusively breastfeed on demand. He sleeps in a crib next to the bed half the night, and in the bed the other half. Though it sort of depends on where my daughter is laying since I don't want her to roll onto him. Go figure. I'd prefer not to get pregnant for a good while... like 5 years if I can control it, and at LEAST 18 months because I keep having preemies:

Bri: mom to K: and M: at 27 weeks and 33 weeks :
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#7 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 12:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by momtokimari View Post
I exclusively breastfeed on demand. He sleeps in a crib next to the bed half the night, and in the bed the other half. Though it sort of depends on where my daughter is laying since I don't want her to roll onto him. Go figure. I'd prefer not to get pregnant for a good while... like 5 years if I can control it, and at LEAST 18 months because I keep having preemies:
Welcome! When did your cycle return after your first one? I found mine to be pretty similar. With DD1 at 16 months, and with DS2 at 15 months. We used a combo of condoms and withdrawal until I got my cycle back. Charting for me was pointless, because I was up constantly nursing DS. But, once AF returned, I decided to nightwean him, and now I'm able to get a reliable enough temp every morning to chart with.

And ... congrats on that new bundle
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#8 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 07:52 AM
 
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Hello all! CD31 here. No temp shift, no bleeding, nothin'. Add to that the fact that I have developed a cold and can't sleep with my mouth closed. I will dance for joy on the day my temp goes up!

On the brightside, it's almost Friday!

Adrienne belly.gif - Loving my DHguitar.gif, our daughter Harper Emaline ROTFLMAO.gif (3/2011), and maybe a baby?? jaw2.gif (5/2013)

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#9 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 08:21 AM
 
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My temp is still up today. One more to go!

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#10 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 08:31 AM
 
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hey we are here and still not pregnant!
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#11 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 09:14 AM
 
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Subbing! I guess I did O on CD11, because AF showed up yesterday. So I only had a 23 day cycle. Guess that means no more first 5 day rule for me!

I have my first gyno appointment since getting my IUD out coming up soon, I'm nervous about telling her I'm using FAM for BC. Hoping she doesn't give me a hard time about it.

Mama to a 6 year old diva, and new little man July 2011.

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#12 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 09:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle283 View Post
Subbing! I guess I did O on CD11, because AF showed up yesterday. So I only had a 23 day cycle. Guess that means no more first 5 day rule for me!

I have my first gyno appointment since getting my IUD out coming up soon, I'm nervous about telling her I'm using FAM for BC. Hoping she doesn't give me a hard time about it.
Take your charts with you. If she gives you a hard time I'd find a new doc!

Adrienne belly.gif - Loving my DHguitar.gif, our daughter Harper Emaline ROTFLMAO.gif (3/2011), and maybe a baby?? jaw2.gif (5/2013)

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#13 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle283 View Post
I have my first gyno appointment since getting my IUD out coming up soon, I'm nervous about telling her I'm using FAM for BC. Hoping she doesn't give me a hard time about it.
Mine gave me a hard time when I refused other bc. I just stood my ground and told her she was wrong. That shut her up quick. No reason for you to be nervous. It's your body, your decision. If she gives you a hard time, find a new doc.

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#14 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Shannon ~ I can't remember if you explained how you determine the LTL. What would it be on my chart? Also, I think the 0.2 degree in TCOYF refers to the minimum temp rise above the highest of the previous 6 temps to indicate O. TCOYF also says that the temp should rise at 0.4 degrees above the previous day's temp, although it can sometimes be more subtle. For example, if the highest temp of 6 is 97.5 and the temp the day of O is 97.3, the CL would be set at 97.6 and the temp for the day after O should be at least 97.7.

For everyone, I wanted to clarify my answer to the question of ewcf at 8dpo. It's cool as long as you have a clear and sustained thermal shift. If your thermal shift is at all ambiguous, you should consider yourself potentially fertile again.

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#15 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 12:34 PM
 
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Hey all! I'm here! Not pregnant! In fact, we just O'd... I had a huge temp jump today... (and I felt really cold the last three nights.) I'm waiting for three more to confirm, but.. cf and OPK's make me pretty positive cd18 was it for me! That's my earliest O since getting my period back. So that might make this my shortest cycle! We'll see... since my lp has been adjusting itself since having DD.

Happy Charting this month ladies! :
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#16 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 01:33 PM
 
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So, I seem to be drying up today... Finally. CD 25. DH will be back tonight. And in 2 weeks or so I'll either be announcing AF or a PG. I'm fine with it either way, and DH knows where we stand. I have a good DH re. many things, including understanding the charting/cycle thing. I'm lucky!
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#17 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 03:29 PM
 
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Welcome, lacysmommy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle283
I'm nervous about telling her I'm using FAM for BC. Hoping she doesn't give me a hard time about it.
Whenever a dr gives me a hard time about NFP, I just say I'm aware of & comfortable with the risks.

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Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
Shannon ~ I can't remember if you explained how you determine the LTL. What would it be on my chart?
You actually can't set a LTL on your chart yet according to NFP rules as I understand them. You have to have 3 temps above the previous six before you can look for a LTL. If you decided that the temp on CD 29 is disturbed (wacky therm?) and actually discarded it, then your LTL would be at 97.5, but the temps on CD 32 & 33 would be shaved down to 97.5 & your shift would be CD 34, 35, and 36. So you'd be safe in the evening on CD 36. If you discarded all three of your weird high temps, the LTL would still be 97.5, but the O would line up w/FF's analysis and you'd be safe on CD 34 or 35, depending on if you were ok w/Peak +3 or wanted to wait for Peak +4. You have to admit those 3 weird temps make your chart very problematic.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#18 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 03:44 PM
 
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Checkin in for April CD12 here and we had an Ooops yesterday. I guess we will see when I O and what happens after that.... ?
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#19 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingMomma View Post
You actually can't set a LTL on your chart yet according to NFP rules as I understand them. You have to have 3 temps above the previous six before you can look for a LTL.
That's essentially the same as setting a CL. You aren't supposed to set it until after you have 3 high temps. You can always visualize your CL, though, using the previous 6 temps. It might just change each day depending on temps if they don't rise enough until you finally get a thermal shift.

I think we're pretty much saying the same thing, here, just using different terms. That might explain why FF sometimes sets the CL lower than I would. Maybe they've incorporated the LTL rule from NFP into their software. I'm starting to figure this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingMomma View Post
If you decided that the temp on CD 29 is disturbed (wacky therm?) and actually discarded it, then your LTL would be at 97.5, but the temps on CD 32 & 33 would be shaved down to 97.5 & your shift would be CD 34, 35, and 36. So you'd be safe in the evening on CD 36.
That cd29 temp is fine. If anything, I could maybe adjust down to 97.8 for time but I don't think that's necessary. It wouldn't change my analysis, anyway. How and why would you shave the cd32 and 33 temps and put them at 97.5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingMomma View Post
If you discarded all three of your weird high temps, the LTL would still be 97.5, but the O would line up w/FF's analysis and you'd be safe on CD 34 or 35, depending on if you were ok w/Peak +3 or wanted to wait for Peak +4. You have to admit those 3 weird temps make your chart very problematic.
I did discard those 3 high temps. CD32, 33 and 34 temps are higher than the previous 6 with those 3 high temps discarded. So then my LTL would be set to the highest of those 6 temps, right? That's where you get the 97.5 LTL from? And the cd29 temp is high enough to indicate the start of my thermal shift? Then my HTL would be 97.9? What does the HTL mean?

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#20 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 05:00 PM
 
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could we add a few more abbreviatins to the opening page? HTL and such?

I am not sure where Im at - somewhere after CD10 and before 15 I reckon. Ihavent temped regularly. Ive been so off since I broke this wrist. Don't feel any CF of any sort, but since I'm all wonky following the cycles, we're just taking extra precautions.

Just wanted to sub and say :

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#21 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 06:40 PM
 
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hey we are here and still not pregnant!
LOL! Yep, same here, not pregnant. CD 16 and gearing up for O, possibly soon. Do you suppose our "oops" rate will go dramatically down for a few months as everyone freaks out about all the pregnancies we just had?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle283 View Post
I have my first gyno appointment since getting my IUD out coming up soon, I'm nervous about telling her I'm using FAM for BC. Hoping she doesn't give me a hard time about it.
If you're up for it and she seems to need some education, use it as a chance to educate her. All the doctors I've ever told (hmm, ok that's one doctor and a midwife) have not really thought anything of it. The midwife just warned me it might be difficult while breastfeeding.

Quote:
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could we add a few more abbreviatins to the opening page? HTL and such?
Yeah...that discussion has me totally lost.

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#22 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 06:57 PM
 
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Yeah...that discussion has me totally lost.
MW, maybe we'd better take it offlist! Wanna get together sometime the week after next? It'd probably be easier to hash through in real time, anyway.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#23 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MW, maybe we'd better take it offlist! Wanna get together sometime the week after next? It'd probably be easier to hash through in real time, anyway.
I don't mind getting together IRL. You could bring your book for me to skim, although I might get offended. Maybe you could just mark the pertinent points irt charting.

I think it's ok to keep in onlist here, too, though. This is a FAM/NFP group. If you have the time to send me a quick list of your abbreviations and what they stand for, I can add them to the front page.

Whew to all the not preggers! We made it through the rest of March without any oopses. I think there were only 2-3, depending on whether or not you count the one who got pg in February but didn't find out until March. (I'm way too technical. )

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#24 of 313 Old 04-02-2009, 11:02 PM
 
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Well, I'm very certain that I am safe now. I had a ton of EWCM correspond with when FF said I O'd and yesterday I was dry, at about 4 dpo..

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#25 of 313 Old 04-03-2009, 11:41 AM
 
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: Got my 3rd posts shift temp today! And I'm on Peak+5! :

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryLang View Post
Well, I'm very certain that I am safe now. I had a ton of EWCM correspond with when FF said I O'd and yesterday I was dry, at about 4 dpo..
I hate to be a downer, but I really don't think you can be certain w/out more temps pre-shift. It's possible to go from EWCM to dry w/out O!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarefootScientist
Do you suppose our "oops" rate will go dramatically down for a few months as everyone freaks out about all the pregnancies we just had?
Yes!

MW: Let's plan on getting together. I'll continue on-list also, but I'm not going to have much computer time over the next week.

Quote:
That might explain why FF sometimes sets the CL lower than I would. Maybe they've incorporated the LTL rule from NFP into their software.
I doubt that is why, b/c if they set a CL at the LTL then you'd only need 1/10th for a shift. :

LTL: low temp level (basically 1/10th below FAM's CL)
HTL: high temp level (4/10ths above LTL)

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#26 of 313 Old 04-03-2009, 11:45 AM
 
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ok, I'm getting back into my groove. CD16 officially and seem to be gearing up to o. I've just come to accept that my previously textbook perfect CF is no longer and that its this new thinner version of it. (sorta wish I could say that about my weight ). But the new thinner CF is definitely there and has a slight stretch to it. So we're gearing up. Glad I called it "condom zone" the other day, because looks like we're in it. Im putting more narrative notes in my FF so I can look back next month and say "hey, it was just like this last month" or something.

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#27 of 313 Old 04-03-2009, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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: Got my 3rd posts shift temp today! And I'm on Peak+5! :
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I doubt that is why, b/c if they set a CL at the LTL then you'd only need 1/10th for a shift. :
But look where FF puts my CL if I change the O detector to Advanced and put those 3 high temps back in. It's in between the FAM CL and NFP LTL. They use their own rules for confirming O with the Advanced detector, maybe some sort of combo between NFP and FAM. If I set the O detector to FAM and leave in those high temps, FF says it can't confirm O. If I leave it on FAM and discard those 3 high temps, FF puts O on the same day but the CL at 97.6.

Just for the heck of it, I put the 3 high temps back in on my Ovusoft chart, too. It moved my O to cd33 and my CL to 97.8.

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#28 of 313 Old 04-03-2009, 03:10 PM
 
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But look where FF puts my CL if I change the O detector to Advanced and put those 3 high temps back in.

Just for the heck of it, I put the 3 high temps back in on my Ovusoft chart, too. It moved my O to cd33 and my CL to 97.8.
Maybe Advanced is using the average of your pre-shift 6 (97.5333)?

I think an argument can be made for O on CD 31 or 33.

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#29 of 313 Old 04-03-2009, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Maybe Advanced is using the average of your pre-shift 6 (97.5333)?

I think an argument can be made for O on CD 31 or 33.
Advanced sets my CL at 97.56

Yeah, I'm pretty certain it was cd31 but it could've been a little later.

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#30 of 313 Old 04-04-2009, 02:05 AM
 
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I am still here! I am going to start TTC after one more cycle. CTA has worked great for us so far though!

Our beautiful baby girl arrived 2/17/2010
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