May 2009 Charting to Avoid Thread - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome to the May 2009 charting to avoid thread. If you would like to be added or removed (or have anything changed) from the roll call list, please let me know by PMing me. PM me if you'd like to start next month's thread.

Here's a link to last month's April 2009

If you did not post in April, you may have been deleted from the list. If you were mistakenly deleted, or you would like to be added/removed, please PM me and let me know. I can not promise to make changes requested in the thread, but I will try to get to everything.

*Charting/Using FAM/NFP to AVOID*

who we are:

akaisha - since 04/08
angelxxrose - since 08/08
AnnieA - since 12/07
annie2186
babyluvandkisses - CTA since 05/09
BarefootScientist - since 08/08 and 12 cycles in '05-'06
bandyr - CTA for 3.5 years
ccasanova - CTA since 12/08 + 4 mos prior
Danielle283 - since 02/09
DucetteMama21842 - (babymed) (FF) since 11/08
heather719 - since 01/09
HulaJenn - since 04/09
ladyinred - since 06/08
Laggie
mamaspirit - CTA since 11/08 + more prior
MarineMommy - CTA since 10/08
miriam_bat_avraham -
missjessicajames - CTA since 05/09
momongeon - CTA
MovingMomma - since 02/09 + some time before
nichole - CTA
ReikiMommy07 CTA since 08/08
Shelsi -
Sihaya -
Smylingeyz - CTA since 06/08
Teenytoona - since 02/09
twilight girl - since 08/07
Twinklefae - since 05/08
Virginia884 - since 02/09
wannaBmom_NICU_RN - since 01/09
wholewheatchick - since 05/09

Graduates (no longer charting to avoid)
maggirayne -- CTA 02/08-10/08
JuicyPakwan - CTA 06/07 - 06/08 (?)
jul511riv - CTA 17 mo
Mrs_Lurker - CTA 11 mo
augustinem -- cta 6 mo
DanelleB - 12/07 - 05/08
Runner29 - CTA since 07/07 + 2 years previous
ShwarmaQueen - CTA since 09/07
BananaBreadGirl - CTA for 2 years
sk8ermaiden - 09/07-10/08
texaspeach - 10/04 - 01/09
cfiddlinmama - CTA 11/07 - 01/09 + more prior
CanidFL - CTA 06/08 - 02/09
Shell_Ell - (FF) (OS) 11/04 - 02/09 (15 cycles)
Juliacat - CTA 03/08 - 03/09, +33 cycles prior from 2001-2004
mommy2twobabes - CTA 7/08 - 03/08
Othermother'n'madre - CTA 02/08 - 04/09
cahwilson - 01/09 - 04/09
lacysmommy - 04/09-5/09
MarineWife - FF Ovusoft 06/08-05/09

Pregnancies per Month (due to user error unless otherwise noted)
February - at least 1
March - 2
April - 2
May - 2

Happy charting!

Summary of FAM rules (sympto-thermal)

Pre-ovulation rules:

1) First 5 Days Rule: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had an obvious temp shift 12-16 days before.

2) Dry day rule: You are safe to DTD after 6PM if you have been dry all day.

Post ovulation rules:

1) Peak day rule: the last day of fertile mucous is called the peak day (the day before your mucous begins to dry up). You are safe to DTD on the fourth consecutive day after the peak day. If another patch of more fertile mucous appears, start your count over.

2) Temperature shift rule: You are safe the evening of the third consecutive day your temp is above your coverline. If your temp falls at or below the coverline during the 3 day count, begin your count again.

BOTH rules must be satisfied to be considered in your infertile phase.

How to set a coverline:

When you see a temperature shift of at least 0.2 degrees F above the highest of the previous 6 temps, draw a line 0.1 degrees F above that highest temp.

Resources

Books:
Taking Charge of Your Fertility, by Toni Weschler
Garden of Fertility and Honoring Our Cycles workbook, by Katie Singer
The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Sheila Kippley
Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing: How Ecological Breastfeeding Spaces Babies by Sheila Kippley
Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon

Websites:
Ovusoft charting software, and brief fertility library
Fertility Friend charting software, and ttc charting guide
Author Katie Singer's Garden of Fertility website
Billings Ovulation Method info
Billings Ovulation Method Association, USA
Billings Centre, CA
Couple to Couple League (find an NFP instructor)
Creighton Model


Abbreviations:
AF: Aunt Flo, your period
BFP: what we are trying to avoid, a positive pregnancy test
CD: Cycle day
CM: cervical mucous (same as CF)
CF: cervical fluid (same as CM)
DPO: Days past ovulation
DTD: Do the deed
GIO: get it on
EWCM: eggwhite cervical mucous/fluid
LP: Luteal phase - the time from ovulation until your period, average 10-16 days
LTL: low temp level (basically 1/10th below FAM's CL or on the highest of the 6 previous temps)
HTL: high temp level (4/10ths above LTL, temp rise needed to indicate O)

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#2 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 10:47 AM
 
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Happy May, Ladies!

I was curious about the boy thing too... does he have many brothers/sisters?

MarineWife: Congrats on the shorter cycle! Must be nice for a change. I see you still had to override the CD9/10 issue FF was giving you.

OMM: did your sis just get a BFP? Or were you refering back to yourself? That would be neat to be PG with your sister... I think. Are you close? How are you doing anyhow?

AFM: I think I may O earlier that usual, maybe. I have only been getting "true EW" the day before O with watery for a couple days before. Last night I had undeniable true EW and I have some O pain this morning. I am only on CD12 so I didnt expect this for another couple days. Good thing we have been careful, no chance of PG here.
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#3 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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MarineWife: Congrats on the shorter cycle! Must be nice for a change. I see you still had to override the CD9/10 issue FF was giving you.
Darn! You beat me to posting. I tried to be the first but my LOs decided they had to eat so I got interrupted.

Anyway, yeah, it is nice to have a much shorter cycle. FF is being totally weird about this cycle. I don't understand why it's calculating O for cd9 or 10. My temps don't reflect that at all. When I put in today's temp, FF even said my chart was possibly triphasic. Ovusoft set my O day to cd19. I'm assuming because that was my last day of fertile CF. It was ew on cd18 and creamy on cd19 and dried up after that.

I'm very stoked that I Oed this early. However, I am a little concerned that we dtd and dh did not withdraw 4 days before O. When your peak day is 2-3 days before your temp shift, which day do you all consider O day? Would it be your peak day or the day before the temp shift? I'll be in more trouble if it's my peak day rather than the day before my temp shift because that would put our unprotected sex only 2-3 days before O.

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#4 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 12:04 PM
 
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Sorry, MW.. I don't think I'm much help answering that question. I still feel like a newbie on the more technical seeming things.


Getting pretty close to O around here... I think it's going to be tomorrow. We'll see.
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#5 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 12:09 PM
 
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Ummm, thats tough. I would say peak day though. Peak makes for sense physiologically. Your body may have responded to the extra progeterone later but because your CF is so localized I would think the timing of that would be a better indicator.... in this particular situation. KWIM? Thats a tough situation, how would you have expected to O so soon?! And you havent done anything different? Drinking more water, excersize (yeah, I cant spell), suppliments, vitamins? Nothing? How odd that you would suddenly have such a shorter cycle! How will Dh react if this results in a BFP? Is this a good thing? I think I remember you, or someone, saying that they were waiting for their "oops"

Sorry for beating you to the first post

ETA: Random question - My BBT is higher than my temp is normally.... is that normal? I thought your BBT was supposed to be lower. I have a regular range of 98, low 98s pre-O and higher 98s post-O but when I take my temp any other time of day, its in the mid to high 97 range... 97.5-97.8 normally. I am not "worried" about it as I see clear temp shifts... just curious really.
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#6 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 12:42 PM
 
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Heather I O'd early this cycle too. I usually have 8 or more days of fertile CM, and I only had 4 this time. Today is CD 19 and we're safe now. DH is very good about cta--no pressure, etc--even though he wants a baby and I don't, at least not for a while, if ever.
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#7 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 12:45 PM
 
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Maybe we are all O'ing early because its Spring Time... it is the season right?!?! LOL I wonder if anyone has ever done any research studies on that? Interesting.
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#8 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 01:28 PM
 
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When your peak day is 2-3 days before your temp shift, which day do you all consider O day? Would it be your peak day or the day before the temp shift? I'll be in more trouble if it's my peak day rather than the day before my temp shift because that would put our unprotected sex only 2-3 days before O.
Software calls it the day of the temp drop, or day before the temp rise. My OB calls it the day of the temp rise. I would say that either way you count it, if you're sure you O'd you are tentatively in the woods here (in other words not in the clear). Only AF will tell, but I would think that it is certainly within the realm of possibility ....
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#9 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 01:43 PM
 
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I'm still waiting for a temp shift. I have 7 days of fertile CM & 8 of slightly lower temps with less variability. I keep expecting to see a jump, but it's not happening!

MW: There's a graph in TAoNFP that shows the timing of O In relationship to Peak Day. Did you DTD CD 15 or 16? If it was CD 16, I think you've got a decent chance of pregnancy regardless of the exact timing of O.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#10 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 03:16 PM
 
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I am enjoying the springtime, but not O'ing early by any means. I'm about right on cue for my normal cycles. Looks like it'll be cd 18-19 for me.
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#11 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't know about the spring time thing. That's the mating season for a lot of other animals but they have much shorter gestational time. Since humans have about a 40 week gestation, it seems that summer to early winter would be the best time to get pregnant. Then the babies would be born spring-fall when food is usually more abundant and the weather is more amenable to survival.

Yes, heather, I am sort waiting for an oops, although not as much now as I was when I first got my cycles back. I'm now kind of getting used to the idea of no more babies so that I can have more time to myself and for my dh. I'd still be happy, though, if I did get pregnant. Whatever happens is fine with me. My dh would be a bit upset about having another baby but not angry with me or anything like that. He'd deal with it quite well. I can see him insisting on getting a V if I did end up getting pg.

No, I haven't really been doing anything differently. I was doing a cleansing diet last cycle but I didn't follow all the way through with it. I'm not taking supplements for fertility, just my regular vitamins. I exercised consistently for about 2 weeks then fell off the wagon. I have gained quite a bit of weight recently. My normal O range is pretty wide. I've Oed as early as cd18 and as late as cd50 or something like that. So, cd19-20 O isn't unheard of for me, just not usual, if that makes sense. I had lots of ewcf so we should've been cautious. I thought my dh knew but, apparently, not.

twilight girl ~ Not everyone gets a temp drop before O. I don't usually. I did have a temp drop on cd15 but had fertile cf for 4 days after that and my temp didn't rise until 5 days after. I think that's too long for the temp drop to indicate O. From what I understand about what causes the temp rise, it happens after O, not the day of O. I think your OB is wrong. I know that, either way, I'm not in the clear. However, as we all know, chances of pg increase the closer to O you gio. So, 4 days before would drop my chances a little compared to 3 days before. KWIM?

Shannon ~ We dtd on cd16 so, yeah, definitely a chance of pg with O on either cd19 or 20 since it's within the 5 day fertile window. My last day of ewcf was cd18 and my peak day according to Ovusoft was cd19 because I had creamy cf. So, my thinking from what I understand about how this all works is that my last most fertile day was cd18 and my last possibly fertile day was cd19, but since my temp didn't rise until cd21 I thought cd20 was what I was supposed to consider O day. There is that 3 day window of accuracy, though. Can you tell I'm confused and analyzing this stuff way too much?

I was doing so well about not testing anymore. I hadn't gotten any more tests and wasn't planning to. Now I don't know if I can make it through my entire lp without testing. :

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#12 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Me again. Sorry for posting so much. I just switched the FF O detector to Research (which is the one I tell everyone else not to use) and it put my O day on cd20 and says I have a low chance of pg. Ovusoft says I have a good chance. Only time will tell.

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#13 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 03:58 PM
 
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OMM: did your sis just get a BFP? Or were you refering back to yourself? That would be neat to be PG with your sister... I think. Are you close? How are you doing anyhow?
Yup she did! This will be our 3rd time doing it together. We (DH and I) both come from large families so it's never a solo event. Case in point...I have 2 other SIL's pregnant also, one due 2 weeks before me. We are close. She's 5 years older than me and we didn't get close until I was in 10th grade and lived with her and her DH for a bit.

I'm doing good. I got sick (something from the kiddos) and am just now getting over it and hoping my morning sickness hasn't kicked in. It tends to do that. With my other two I had the same thing happen and as I was finally getting over whatever illness I had headed straight into morning sickness. It bites. I'm thinking I may have skipped it although while I'm ravenously hungry the thought of food makes me want to hurl.

I sure hope we get to know about the no boy thing! I'm having a hard enough time leaving this thread anyhow without a teaser like that.

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#14 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I got an answer to my question from TAoNFP. It says that O more often occurs on peak day but can occur as many as 3 days before or 3 days after peak day. It also says that O most often occurs on the combo of peak -1 and peak - 2, which are one and two days before peak, respectively. It doesn't mention how the thermal shift fits into that. I always thought O happened on peak day or 1-2 days after, not before. That makes my chances of pg even higher because it means I most likely Oed cd17-19. Oops!

Shannon ~ This book has something interesting stuff in it. One thing is the idea that day 1 is not necessarily always the first day of AF. If your temp drops to at or below your LTL before AF, you can count the first day of temp drops as day 1. Or, if your temps stay up for the first few days of AF, day 1 is the first day that your temps drops. I don't know how that would work for me since my temp doesn't usually drop for several days into AF.

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I got an answer to my question from TAoNFP. It says that O more often occurs on peak day but can occur as many as 3 days before or 3 days after peak day. It also says that O most often occurs on the combo of peak -1 and peak - 2, which are one and two days before peak, respectively. It doesn't mention how the thermal shift fits into that. I always thought O happened on peak day or 1-2 days after, not before. That makes my chances of pg even higher because it means I most likely Oed cd17-19. Oops!
You know, chart guru that I am not, I was actually thinking 'hmmm, maybe she O'd on CD18.' That missing temp might prove to be critical. A fallback rise is not unusual. I'd go with 18, because after that, your cm starts to change ... but I'm no expert. Still, in your shoes, I think I'd be at the ready and peeing on sticks come about 10 dpo!!
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I was actually thinking 'hmmm, maybe she O'd on CD18.' That missing temp might prove to be critical. A fallback rise is not unusual. I'd go with 18, because after that, your cm starts to change ... but I'm no expert. Still, in your shoes, I think I'd be at the ready and peeing on sticks come about 10 dpo!!
Ugh. I know. I've been thinking/wondering about that missing temp, too. TCOYF says that O usually occurs the day of or the day after your peak day. Also, it says that, if you have a creamy day after an ew day, the ew day is still considered the peak day. That means my peak day was cd18. Then if apply the info in TAoNFP, I could've Oed as early as cd16 but still definitely not later than cd20. Either way I'm in the woods.

Don't encourage me! I so don't want to get my hopes up. It would be way too funny if, after all of our heart wrenching ttc for ds2 and ds3, I got pg by accident.

I forgot to say something funny about my dh. He must've detected somehow that I was fertile because he was very motivated during that time to dtd. He's usually not that motivated.

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Wow, all really interesting things to consider... the O at -1 or -2 peak, the thermal shift and AF... I think I am really going to have to get copy of that one! I think Twilight Girl makes a good point though. I would start POAS at around CD28, JIC
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#18 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I put in a fake temp of 98.0 on cd19 and both Ovusoft and FF moved my O day to cd18! :

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#19 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 07:04 PM
 
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MarineWife, good luck with whatever you are hoping for! Do you usually have the temp rise a few days after your peak day? If that is usually the case, I would say count O as Peak Day, maybe your body just takes longer to respond to the progesterone. If it varies, I would personally put more stock in the temp.

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MW, but sperm can only live in fertile CF. So if you didn't have any fertile stuff when you DTD, PG is unlikely, no? Up to 5 days in fertile CF, and not long without it. That's what I learned anyway...
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#22 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MW, but sperm can only live in fertile CF. So if you didn't have any fertile stuff when you DTD, PG is unlikely, no? Up to 5 days in fertile CF, and not long without it. That's what I learned anyway...
Yeah, I think that's right but I had lots of ewcf. CD16 was right in the middle of several days of ewcf, from cd13-cd18.

BFS ~ It seems to vary. I haven't had enough regular PP cycles yet, though, to really be able to recognize any patterns.

I showed dh my chart and told him he messed up. He just kind of shrugged. I think he doesn't think it's possible. I told him if I'm pg it's his fault.

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#23 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 10:42 PM
 
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Yeah, I think that's right but I had lots of ewcf. CD16 was right in the middle of several days of ewcf, from cd13-cd18.

BFS ~ It seems to vary. I haven't had enough regular PP cycles yet, though, to really be able to recognize any patterns.

I showed dh my chart and told him he messed up. He just kind of shrugged. I think he doesn't think it's possible. I told him if I'm pg it's his fault.
So you knew it was EW and DTD anyway. That's a whole 'nother story then. In that case I bet you're PG.
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#24 of 633 Old 05-01-2009, 11:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So you knew it was EW and DTD anyway. That's a whole 'nother story then. In that case I bet you're PG.
Yeah, and I didn't tell my dh but he didn't ask, either. Does that make me bad? I wonder if we both threw caution to the wind because of hormones. Like I said earlier, my dh must've sensed that I was fertile because he really wanted to dtd.

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#25 of 633 Old 05-02-2009, 12:08 AM
 
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Too funny... so when do you think you will start testing?
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#26 of 633 Old 05-02-2009, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by heather719 View Post
Too funny... so when do you think you will start testing?
Well, if I follow my normal behavior, I'll start testing at 6dpo. I know, I'm pitiful. However, I have actually gotten a bfp at 7dpo so...I'm going to try to hold out until at least 10dpo.

The question right now is; should I keep temping? Usually, I stop temping once O is confirmed. Part of me wants to take a break just so I can maybe relax. Part of me wants me to keep temping so I can see what they might tell me.

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#27 of 633 Old 05-02-2009, 09:59 AM
 
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I always temp all the way through... I HAVE to keep myself in the habit of it and be consisntant. I think I would be to curious not to. If you dont are you going to keep wondering whats going on? Which day are you saying O was? 18 or 20?

I got a .5 jump this AM that is .3 above any of my other temps. I am pretty sure I just O 2 days before my earlies, on CD12! That seems early even though I know its normal.
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#28 of 633 Old 05-02-2009, 10:22 AM
 
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MW: I am ! Guess you're gonna have to get some more HPTs!
I never noticed a difference between TCOYF & TAoNFP regarding the day to start a new cycle...probably b/c I virtually always get the nice temp drop warning the day of AF.

I finally got my temp jump this am! Hoping it stays up!!!

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#29 of 633 Old 05-02-2009, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by heather719 View Post
I always temp all the way through... I HAVE to keep myself in the habit of it and be consisntant. I think I would be to curious not to. If you dont are you going to keep wondering whats going on? Which day are you saying O was? 18 or 20?

I got a .5 jump this AM that is .3 above any of my other temps. I am pretty sure I just O 2 days before my earlies, on CD12! That seems early even though I know its normal.
I'll wonder what's going on whether I temp or not. Maybe more so if I do temp. I'm going with cd20 only because that's most obvious to me based on temps. FF Advanced O detector now has my O day on cd17. Ovusoft has it on cd19.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingMomma
MW: Guess you're gonna have to get some more HPTs!

I never noticed a difference between TCOYF & TAoNFP regarding the day to start a new cycle...probably b/c I virtually always get the nice temp drop warning the day of AF.

I finally got my temp jump this am! Hoping it stays up!!!
I'm sure I'll be hitting the $ store next week. I'm going to have to party hard today since it may be my last chance for a while.

TAoNFP has those 2 exceptions of when to start a new cycle. I'm not sure when you're supposed to use them. They might've just been for beginners so that things are more conservative.

Looks like if both of you continue to have high temps, O is confirmed for yesterday.

knit.gifSAHM to 3 boys and 1 man; 22 jammin.gif, 9REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, 5 FIREdevil.gifand now 1 year oldtoddler.gif!

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#30 of 633 Old 05-02-2009, 12:34 PM
 
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Sorry chiming in late to respond to everyone!

Marinewife- Good luck! How funny would that be if we both jinxed ourselves. I didn't have any fertile cf (that I noticed) only creamy. I suspect I did ovulate on CD 18 b/c my test was a very dark BFP and it would have been early if my chart was right.

I was at walmart and I thought I am just going to get a test so I can stop thinking about the what if's! I totally thought it would be negative. I tested while dh was home without him knowing and when the line immediatly came up I went to get him and said I might be pregnant. He told me later he thought I was going to show him some spot in the toilet that was supposed to be some sign of pregnancy. Lol He was like two dark lines on a pregnancy test is not "might be pregnant."

We were both shocked and now he is more excited than I am. He is doing baby talk to my belly. lol He got home after I was in bed last night and I woke up to him standing over me rubbing my belly...and he didn't want another baby. Ha!
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