Charting to Avoid, August 09 - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 365 Old 08-09-2009, 04:13 PM
 
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BFS-I got a bfp on 9dpo w/ both our last pregnancies, so I thought maybe on Wed, pending my temps. Seeing as I don't know the actual length of my luteal phase, I don't know exactly when I'll get af, except going by ff, which tells me anywhere from 14-18 days.
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#122 of 365 Old 08-09-2009, 04:42 PM
 
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So I think we are *actually* transitioning to CTA! :

At first DP thought I was trying to "trick" him, lol (he knows that I do want another baby). But yesterday, before DTD, I got out my calendar, showed him how we count the days of the cycle, talked about when/how I observed my fertility signs and how we were way past the fertile window. I reassured him that I would never want to trick him into pregnancy, and how I believe we can avoid an unplanned pg and enjoy more intimacy without the rubber---also that I only wanted to do whatever he was comfortable with, even if that means using rubbers when I'm not fertile. I felt a little like I was giving a birds and the bees lecture, lol.

He gave me a big hug, and we had some very trusting, intimate time together, with no "barrier" between us

I guess that I may have to start taking my temp if we're going to use CTA full time. I've just been using fertility awareness signs and charting my cycle to get into the swing of CTA. We'll probably still use another method when in doubt.

Happy and in love with my family!
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#123 of 365 Old 08-09-2009, 05:06 PM
 
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showed up this afternoon. I'm taking about a week off from temping. DH is gone & he's the one who turns off the alarm & gives me the therm & I was having trouble with broken sleep while I was doing it myself (I temp about 1.5-2 hrs before my normal waking time). It's a good time in my cycle for it, so yay for better sleep! Only a 9 day LP for that cycle, though. :

craft media hero: Welcome! Increased intimacy is great! But...if you aren't temping, you don't know that you are past O. I'm glad to see that you plan on temping while using CTA, I'd just hate for you to have an oops while you're getting into the swing of things. I highly recommend reading TCOYF or TAoNFP.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#124 of 365 Old 08-09-2009, 05:21 PM
 
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MW - Thanks for the input. I'm not really worried about being safe or not right now since we are using backup full time until I get more comfortable checking my cf to discern between ewcf and semen. I don't have any idea how long my lp is so I will just wait it out and see how it goes.

BFS - Thanks for adding me. I'm not familier with the Doering rule. When I did the temp only method I wasn't familier with any of the rules except the 3 high temps. Now that I know more I realize just how lucky we were , we used backup from about cd 5, sometimes blurred to cd 9, until the thermal shift.

Currently day 34 for me and no af yet, ff removed my crosshairs. Even though the temps don't line up my guess from just how I felt is that I O'd on cd 28. This cycle is the wierdest I have ever charted so who knows.
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#125 of 365 Old 08-09-2009, 05:39 PM
 
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Thanks ladies! GREAT advice and links Yay! I feel so much better. I thought there was no natural options before AF comes around PP.

I am doing most of the things anyway...except we do use a pacifier when I am in the shower, or changing a poopy (my older sons), finishing up dinner, etc. I'll try to use it REALLY minimally. I remember someone telling me that you know when you are BFing "correctly", because you almost get drunk-feeling, sleepy, and relaxed when you BF...and I am assuming THAT is what I want to achieve when I nurse in order to do the LAM method correctly

Thanks everyone!

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#126 of 365 Old 08-09-2009, 06:02 PM
 
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i'm still spotting today. this is day 4 of spotting.
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#127 of 365 Old 08-09-2009, 08:25 PM
 
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Those ecological bfing rules don't really seem any different to me than the LAM rules, just more detailed. Exclusive bfing means no pacifiers or anything else for baby to suck on, eat or drink. I don't understand the need to sleep with baby during one daytime nap as long as you are bfing exclusively on demand around the clock.

Babygirl ~ If you are giving your baby a pacifier at any time, I believe you can't rely on LAM or eco bf as much. It may still work, especially if you are tracking your other fertility signs, but the risk of getting pg is greater.

AFM, I think this bleeding is finally stopping. I've only had spotting all day. : I decided to split things up into 2 cycles. I think that will help me figuring out when I'm mostly likely to be fertile in the future. Interestingly, leaving it all as one cycle gives me one potentially fertile period when dh will be home. Splitting them up gives me no potentially fertile time while dh is home. I'd prefer to have a slight chance of getting pg when he's home for that short time. (Sorry, I know this is the cta thread but I've always been here under duress.)

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#128 of 365 Old 08-09-2009, 08:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingMomma View Post
:
craft media hero: Welcome! Increased intimacy is great! But...if you aren't temping, you don't know that you are past O. I'm glad to see that you plan on temping while using CTA, I'd just hate for you to have an oops while you're getting into the swing of things. I highly recommend reading TCOYF or TAoNFP.
Thanks!

So without temping, you can't know you're past O? For example, I had very obvious ewcm with ovulatory cramping the day before and the day of. This indicates ovulation, right? So if we wait several days past and there are no other signs of fertility, then we're past our fertile window, right?

I definitely want to get TCOYF---I've been eyeing it for a while. But since I'm spending so much $ on other stuff right now, I've been putting off buying it. I wish my library carried that book or the other.

Is it possible to CTA without doing the BBT? Does anybody on this thread CTA successfully without BBT? I'm a newb, and definitely don't want an "oops" right now---my DP and I are just starting to trust the method!

Happy and in love with my family!
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#129 of 365 Old 08-09-2009, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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craft_media_hero, welcome! Would you like to be added to the list?

Quote:
Originally Posted by craft_media_hero View Post
So without temping, you can't know you're past O? For example, I had very obvious ewcm with ovulatory cramping the day before and the day of. This indicates ovulation, right? So if we wait several days past and there are no other signs of fertility, then we're past our fertile window, right?
...
Is it possible to CTA without doing the BBT? Does anybody on this thread CTA successfully without BBT? I'm a newb, and definitely don't want an "oops" right now---my DP and I are just starting to trust the method!
There are definitely lots of people, even some on this thread I believe, that CTA without using the temp. For example, one system you could look into is the Billings Method. And you pretty much right that the end of the ewcm, along with ovulatory cramping as a secondary sign, is a good indicator of ovulation and that you can resume intercourse after a few days, HOWEVER, you are also correct that you don't have a definitive sign that ovulation is over unless you are temp charting. Maybe your body geared up to ovulate and then didn't for some reason and in a week or a few days you will be fertile again. This happens to some of us a lot. You just never know. So, all this means is that if you don't want to temp, you need to continue watching the CF even after you resume intercourse, and if you see fertile CF again, you would need to abstain or use backup again because you just have no way of knowing it's safe. Also, you are technically not supposed to DTD unprotected during your period using this method because it could be anovulatory bleeding, but you can have a certain number of safe days (usually the rule is 5) if you are using temps and you know you O'd the last cycle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
Those ecological bfing rules don't really seem any different to me than the LAM rules, just more detailed. Exclusive bfing means no pacifiers or anything else for baby to suck on, eat or drink. I don't understand the need to sleep with baby during one daytime nap as long as you are bfing exclusively on demand around the clock.
I think the point is getting adequate rest. Though I also think it's highly individual when you get your cycles back.

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#130 of 365 Old 08-09-2009, 09:52 PM
 
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MW: Yes, personally, I also discount the daily nap rule. If mom nurses really and truly on demand, I don't think it would make a difference whether she actually lays down with baby. At least as long as she's not popping baby off as soon as baby is asleep...let him/her nurse & sleep for a while. And...

Babygirl: Yup, any paci use decreases the effectiveness of LAM.

CMH: There are ladies on here who use CM only methods. They'll tell you it can be just as effective as sympto-thermal. Others on here disagree. But CM only is more involved than just "oh, CM=fertile, dry=not fertile." (Not saying this is what you're doing!) The rules for CM only seem more complicated to me than the rules for sympto-thermal.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#131 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 03:02 AM
 
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Well I guess I had better knock out the pacifier then!

I'm glad he'll take it in the case of an emergency (car rides are HORRIBLE), but at home we'll just make sure its put away and isn't an option. I LOVE LOVE taking naps with baby in the afternoon, and my SIL is here to be a mommy's helper until I am 8 weeks PP (we'll all be flying back together to visit our families in September, and she won't come back with us). So, for now, I get to have a nice little "baby-moon" and know my older children are happy and well taken care of

My only complaint this time around, is that I can't really nurse in bed because DS starts screaming every 2-5 minutes of nursing, because he has a bubble, and its a nightmare trying to get him to burp. With 2nd DS, it was SO so much easier to BF in bed, and actually enjoy BFing during the day, so I never even THOUGHT of a pacifier. With this baby, I don't like nursing him to "pacify" him, because it actually makes his tummy have more little bubbles and he screams more. If I give him the pacy after he gets full and burps good, he will go to sleep, and I'll pop it back out while I hold him in my Moby wrap.

Anyhoo...bla bla bla...let me just complain for a second about my life, lol! I really will try nixing the bink though..I know I need to.

UHBAC, CDing, SAHM to Jason 4/7/06, Tyler 10/13/07, & Micah 7/11/09, and Loving wife to Jonathan
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#132 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 06:59 AM
 
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Hello ladies!

Just wanted to pop in and say that I'm still following along and reading all your posts. Nearing the end of the 2WW. By the end of this week I'll either be back with you guys CTA or joining a DDC! Have a great week!

Adrienne belly.gif - Loving my DHguitar.gif, our daughter Harper Emaline ROTFLMAO.gif (3/2011), and maybe a baby?? jaw2.gif (5/2013)

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#133 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 08:12 AM
 
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Virginia, your chart looks good!

AFM, 10 DPO and spotting. I had hoped to get a longer LP because I have been doing a better job of taking my thyroid meds at the same time every day and I am also taking a B complex vitamin but I guess not. Oh well.

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#134 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 08:40 AM
 
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Virginia-when are you testing?

SB- how are things today?

MW-I'm keeping hopeful all the spotting stops for good. When does your dh come back?

CmH-I only started bbt now. I used to only go by cf and the calendar and now after doing bbt, I realize how "lucky" I guess we were that we didn't get preg. I used it for about 5 or 6m after ds1, but then had a wacky cycle where I had ewcm, and I thought I o'd, so a few days later we bd, but then got more ewcm and we have ds2. But after ds2 it worked for 2yrs. This time I wanted to bbt though.
Do any of the libraries around you have TcOYF? Ours doesn't, but in our county you can put in a request, and they'll deliver it from a different branch, to mine and call me when it gets there-they're all connected.
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#135 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 10:38 AM
 
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A Cf only method would definately not work for me - I have a hard enough time determining creamy from sticky! LOL And I agree there are times the body could have EWCM gearing up to O and then not O. I guess it's in how consistent your CF ahs been and how confident you are in interpretting it. I don't find it difficult to grab the thermometer and shove it in my mouth as soon as my eyeballs open and the online charting options make it easy to view the pattern.
It's interpretting the temps that throw me too! LOL My chart is wonky again this time with insane drop in temps and EWCM for one day (too early for O) turning to sticky when usually this is when I am starting EWCM to gear up to O.
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#136 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 10:45 AM
 
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No one told me how to use the code in some sigs to see charts on FF. How do you do that? I want to stalk Virginia's chart. I'll put my code in my sig, too, in case anyway wants to check it when I don't post it.

craft ~ Like has already been said, you can know when you are potentially fertile and not tracking just CF but you can't definitively confirm O without temps. I sort of follow some of the rules for that since I have long cycles and sometimes more than one patch of fertile CF before I O. If my CF completely dries up but I don't have a thermal shift, I know I haven't Oed yet. However, I can use the 4 day dry up rule (is that the name of the rule?). If my CF dries up for at least 4 days, I assume I am not potentially atm and we don't use withdrawal. As soon as any CF shows up again, though, I go back to being potentially fertile until O is confirmed with temps.

Annie ~ A 10 day lp is ok. Oh, are you hoping for a longer lp so you have more safe days?

MM ~ I gotcha. I'm not knocking the daytime nap. I take one every chance I can get. When E was a baby I'd lay down with him every time he napped. That's definitely important when you have a baby who's nursing every 2 hours or so around the clock. Wish my 13yo had understood that at the time.

Virginia ~ Good luck!

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#137 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 11:05 AM
 
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Jenn ~ That is a huge temp drop. Maybe your body is getting ready to O. My temp usually drops for a few days right before O.

As a matter of fact, my temp was way low this am, lower than I can ever remember it being. I'm at cd14 assuming it was ok for me to start a new cycle. My body seems to gear up for O at around cd14 every cycle like it's trying to have a "normal" cycle but then doesn't. Then I have to go back to counting down to O.

Oh, who asked when my dh would be home? I can't tell you exactly but it won't be for a few more months. That's not an issue as much as the fact that he'll only be home for about a month before he leaves again for another several months. So, we will have a very short time in which to get pg (not that my dh wants to do that, anyway), and with my long, messed up cycles, there's no guarantee I'll even be fertile while he's home. By the time we're together for any decent length of time, we'll both be 40. I don't mind having a child in my 40s but that's one of the big reasons my dh doesn't want anymore children. He says he doesn't want to be 60 and still have kids at home. I don't think he's thought through that to see how silly that really is. I mean, if we had another child at, say, 42, that child would be 18 when we are 60. That's not really having a child in the home, kwim?

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#138 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 11:12 AM
 
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I figured out how to use the codes to see ya'lls charts on FF. Now you all have to come up with more interesting names than just the code #s FF gave you. Mine is in my sig now.

Virginia ~ Your chart does look good so far! Possibly, going triphasic if your temps stay up.

BFS ~ You almost made it to 4 days of CF dry up except for the spotting yesterday. Your temps don't clearly confirm O, though. What O detector do you have FF set to?

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#139 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 12:04 PM
 
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Annie ~ A 10 day lp is ok. Oh, are you hoping for a longer lp so you have more safe days?
Nah. DH uses W/D regardless of where we are in a cycle. I would just like a little more time inbetween the horribleness that is my AF.

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#140 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 01:36 PM
 
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Is there really anyone here that doesn't use BBTs? I know a few people have joined us who didn't, but I think after realising they're not necessarily safe to dtd relying only on CM, have changed their ways, no?

I know that I personally have thought many times that I was gearing up to O and was positive that I had, only to wake up again to a low BBT (and hense confirm that I hadn't actually O'ed) due to sickness, stress, or just because things can get wacky from time to time.

I reallly recomend taking your BBT. Your temps will only rise (and remain high) after O has released progesterone into your system (the 'pro-gestation' hormone) essentially turning your body into an incubator in preparation to receive a fertilized egg. 3 days+ of higher temps is the only way to be sure you're safe in avoiding pregnancy.

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#141 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 01:41 PM
 
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It seems like my temp is taking a couple of days to go up after O, is that possible?

FF says I only had an 11 day LP but I think it's wrong because normally it's 13 or 14 days. My Chart

I want to move the date of O back to day 12 instead of day 14 - that seems more likely to me. I know I didn't record CF on days 12/13 - I forgot about it, but that means I never felt any wet or slippery feelings... The thing is, I set O date manually last month too. I'm not sure if I'm just getting better at charting, or if I'm doing something wrong.

Anyway. This will be my last month of CTA - DP and I will be moving into a house and TTC in September. :

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#142 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 02:19 PM
 
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Laggie: Remember Peak Day does not necessarily happen on O day. It can be a couple of days before or after. I don't know about your normal LP length, but both charts showing on your FF page are considerably shorter than 13-14 days. I'd put your June LP at 9 days (I wouldn't start it until your temp goes up, and I'd end it when it goes down), and your July LP could be shorter than 11 days w/the spotting on CD 25 and no temps to see the drop at the end of the cycle. There are a number of reasons your LP could vary, including the normal 2 day variability. Don't manipulate your O day based on how long you think your LP "should" be.

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#143 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 02:25 PM
 
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Annie ~ I gotcha, not having AF as often is a nice thing.

Laggie ~ Based on your temps, O cannot be confirmed before cd14 of this cycle and cd16 of last cycle. Personally, I think it's better to assume O was later rather than earlier regardless of whether you are ttc or cta. If cta, assuming O was later means you won't think you're safe before you really are. If ttc, assuming O was later means you won't stop dtd before you've actually Oed and, therefore, have less chance of getting pg. For ttc, I don't think it's as critical as long as you continue to dtd for as long as you have fertile cf.

Some women do have a slow temp rise and O can only be confirmed to within 3 days using temps. Some women also have a cf dry up before temps reflect O, just as some women may have a few days of still fertile cf after the start of the thermal shift. In other words, you could've Oed as much as 3 days before your temp rise (some say or as much as 3 days after but I don't really think that's possible), especially if that lines up with your peak day. TAoNFP says that O most often occurs the day of + the day before peak day based on some research with peak day being the single day when O is most likely to occur. However, I still think it's best to assume O was later jic.

eirual ~ There was at least one person in this group when I was in it before who used only CF. She doesn't seem to be as active as before, maybe just popping in once a month to be kept on the list. She is very adamant that charting CF can be just as effective charting BBT.

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#144 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Virginia - your chart looks good so far! Good luck! Let's have some POAS!

MW - glad you figured out the chart code thing. Is the name something everyone can do or just VIP? Where do I go to change it?

Quote:
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BFS ~ You almost made it to 4 days of CF dry up except for the spotting yesterday. Your temps don't clearly confirm O, though. What O detector do you have FF set to?
It was on FAM, I just switched it to Advanced and don't see a change. This is the hardest-to-interpret cycle that I've had in a long time. It looks to me like my temps are trending up, but I don't see a shift. If I ROT the temps on CD 17 and 24...maybe...I think we'll be sticking with condoms for a while yet though...and WTH was that spotting?

eirual - ReikiMommy uses Billings I know for sure. She hasn't been on here much lately though. I thought there might have been a few others, not sure.

Laggie - no input on your chart beyond what MW said but congrats on TTC and the house next month! :

ETA: I just discarded those two temps on my chart (CD 17 was 97.7, and CD 24 was 97.0) and now I see a thermal shift...but I'm not sure if that is the right thing to do. Oh, and here's my chart.

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#145 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 06:27 PM
 
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BFS ~ It's usually not a good idea to discard temps, especially just to see a thermal shift that may not really be there. FF software is set up to disregard outlying temps, anyway, so it shouldn't be necessary. That one temp (Was it the cd24 temp?) that was taken an hour earlier could be adjusted to see how that makes things look.

To change your homepage name, just go to homepage set up and type whatever you want in place of the code in the link at the top of the page. I think anyone can do that since anyone can set up a homepage.

Laggie ~ After what Shannon pointed out about your short lps, if you don't get pg after 3 months of ttc with charting, you might want to talk to your hcp about the short lps. Anything less than 10 days is not good for ttc. 10 days is borderline OK. If your lp is 10 days long and you don't get pg within a few cycles, you might need some lp support.

I just peaked at your chart again. Did this cycle not start until July 16? If that's the case, then your lp last cycle was probably 12 days long, which should be ok for ttc. For the record, my lp is usually 12 days long but I still seemed to need progesterone support during the 1st trimester.

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#146 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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BFS ~ It's usually not a good idea to discard temps, especially just to see a thermal shift that may not really be there. FF software is set up to disregard outlying temps, anyway, so it shouldn't be necessary. That one temp (Was it the cd24 temp?) that was taken an hour earlier could be adjusted to see how that makes things look.
Hmm. I'd have to adjust a lot of my temps though, several of them were a little early or a little late, it's been crazy lately. Yeah, the CD 24 temp was about an hour early...

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#147 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 07:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
I just peaked at your chart again. Did this cycle not start until July 16? If that's the case, then your lp last cycle was probably 12 days long, which should be ok for ttc. For the record, my lp is usually 12 days long but I still seemed to need progesterone support during the 1st trimester.
Oh, you're right, MW! I wish FF extended the previous chart all the way to the beginning of AF regardless of whether there is data on the last day of the cycle or not. So Laggie, disregard my previous comment about your June LP! Incidently, I wonder what that lone low temp on CD 11 is about?

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#148 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 07:53 PM
 
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I would like to join you ladies. I just read the first half of The Garden of Fertility this week, just doing some research you might say. Then today go figure, I started my menses for the first time in a year and a half. timing, timing. I understand charting is more challenging when you are bfing, so I hope I can ask you all for helping to answer some of my questions. Is it worthwhile for me to take my temp while I'm bfing? Or should I just stick to charting my cervical fluid and cervical changes?

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#149 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome nerdymom! I will add you to the list. If you have started having cycles again then I would go ahead and temp. Let us know if you have any other questions right away!

MovingMomma, could I get your thoughts on my chart? I know you're the resident TaoNFP expert, so I'm wondering about the LTL/HTL business. In my chart, could I set my LTL at 97.2, shaving the temp on CD 17, and then call it a "strong" temp shift if I see a temp at 97.6 or above tomorrow, or would that not work since it's been so many days since the LTL was set and the CF dry-up? I just read that part of TaoNFP and wasn't sure.

EDIT: MW, I just tried to change my URL...apparently it is a VIP only feature. I had a cool name picked out too.
Oh, and here's my chart again.

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#150 of 365 Old 08-10-2009, 10:43 PM
 
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BFS: Nope, sorry. Absolutely not. You have to use the first three temps after the 6 at the LTL, and those temps ALL have to be at least 2/10 above the LTL. CD 22 ruins that for you. I wouldn't even give you an overall thermal shift, b/c of CD 24 (each temp in the overall shift must be at least 1/10 above the LTL). Here's my bonus non TAoNFP analysis: Your coverline last cycle was at 97.5--you are (except for today) still below that. If that's a typical coverline for you IMO it adds suspicion to the 97.3. And the spotting on CD 25 is really too soon for implantation bleeding with interpretation of CD 20 as O, so it's most likely breakthrough bleeding adding merit to the argument that you haven't O'd yet.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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