October 2009 Charting to Avoid Thread - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 12:09 AM
 
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smyling ~ Do you know when you Oed? Was your lp 4 days longer than normal or do you not know when you Oed so all you can say was that your cycle was longer?
Sorry I should have mentioned that part before. I Oed on CD 18. My cycle ended up being 33 days. Normally I O on CD 17 or 18 and have a cycle of 28 or occasionally 29 days.
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#122 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 08:43 AM
 
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Sorry I should have mentioned that part before. I Oed on CD 18. My cycle ended up being 33 days. Normally I O on CD 17 or 18 and have a cycle of 28 or occasionally 29 days.
That makes a difference. Your lp shouldn't vary by more than 2 days. If you had unprotected sex at any time within 6 days of O and you are certain of your O day, I'd say it's very possible you had an early m/c (aka chemical pg).

annnie ~ Anything that stretches an inch or more (according to TCOYF) is considered ewcf regardless of what it looks like. I've been getting gobs of snotty looking CF, not clear. It's very stretchy and slippery so I know it's ew. Sometimes I get just a little shiny, slippery CF. It doesn't look anything like this globby stuff does. But since it's very slippery I know it's ew, too.

According to TCOYF, nothing wetter than sticky can be considered a BIP. I think that's because sperm can survive in creamy CF a lot better than sticky and creamy can turn to ew very quickly.. So, if you dtd on a creamy day because you've had creamy for 2 weeks and O 6 days later, you could get pg.

I didn't sleep well last night. I was up half the night fantasizing about pregnancy and babies. I must be getting ready to O soon. I have a question because of that.

Do you record sleep-deprived only when you haven't had at least 3 consecutive hours of sleep right before you temped or whenever you just haven't slept well and wake up feeling tired?

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#123 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 10:36 AM
 
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That makes a difference. Your lp shouldn't vary by more than 2 days. If you had unprotected sex at any time within 6 days of O and you are certain of your O day, I'd say it's very possible you had an early m/c (aka chemical pg).
OH I need to get my charts up online so ya'll can reference it when I have a question like this. I looked at my chart, and we dtd on cd17 w a condom, and again on the 19th using withdrawal and then a condom... I'm a retard apparently. We're separated and I know better than to take such a risk, and we NEVER do it even that much esp around O. Gives me extra incentive for self control I guess... I'll go over my chart in detail later when I have time and see if that's the likely answer. That's sad if it was that :'( Thanks MW.
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#124 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Huh. To me, my temps look pretty different from last cycle. Or at least they did last night. Last cycle they weren't triphasic and topped out at 98.1. This cycle they were triphasic and the third level of temps bottoms out around 98.1. But this morning my temp was a little lower. Anyway, just posting that it was getting to me of course made me feel better (and a little silly) and I am now not concerned at all again and awaiting AF. But come on - the least you guys could do is freak out with me a bit! j/k

Smylingeyz - I guess you had an early miscarriage? If your LP was 4 days longer than normal that seems probable. I have heard they can be heavier OR lighter than normal. But also, I think a heavy cycle can happen every now and then for no real reason - if it happens again this cycle maybe you should see a doctor.

MW - I use the sleep-deprived button in FF if I have a wacko temperature which I think can be explained by some issues with how I slept that night, whether I got up a lot, tossed and turned, or whatever.

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#125 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 11:14 AM
 
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Back from my trip and AF just started today. So this was my first somewhat normal cycle after having my Mirena removed. It was 33 days with 13 or 14 days LP (depending on whether I believe FF on when I O'd or not). We DTD last week with no protection though I know I should do several cycles of monitoring my fertility signs first ... and I didn't get that 4th post O temp. Living dangerously? Well, maybe hoping for an oops and I *did* tell DH I wasn't 100% certain. He actually installed a fertility app on his iPhone though it's not comprehensive and flexible like FF.

Oh ... my chart.

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#126 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 11:17 AM
 
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BFS: While your highest temps are 2/10ths higher than they were last cycle, so is your CL.

Eresh: You should be good on the 3rd high temp. Why are you concerned about waiting for 4? Just b/c you're new to CTA?

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#127 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 11:33 AM
 
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MM: Oh, I didn't include that ... I did not get 3 hrs uninterrupted sleep on CD 21 so while FF put O as CD 20, my CF seemed to indicate to me that O could have been CD 21 if I disregarded the CD 21 temp, which would make CD 24 the 3rd post-O temp. Does that make any sense?

I honestly didn't worry about it too much since I was fairly confident I'd O'd on CD 20 or CD 21, just not sure which. And since we flew out the morning of CD 24 I had no real sleep and was up and about really freaking early in the morning, so no temping.

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#128 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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BFS: While your highest temps are 2/10ths higher than they were last cycle, so is your CL.
Yeah I know, it was the clearly triphasic thing that was bothering me.

Related...how do you guys feel about the end-of-LP freak out time? I know others of you have confessed to having it. Do you think it is a disadvantage of charting? I was thinking about this...I really LOVE charting, and I don't really mind wondering every cycle if mayyybe I'm pregnant (probably because becoming pregnant wouldn't be a complete disaster), but I just get frustrated by how much mental energy I waste thinking about it, yk? I mean, when I was on the Pill, I never worried about pregnancy, even though the Pill also has a failure rate. It would never even have crossed my mind until my period showed up late. And maybe that is partly just the stage of my life I was in then, but I think part of it has to do with the respective birth control methods. Whether it's more information or just hormones that causes this whole thing...what do you guys think??

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#129 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 02:14 PM
 
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Related...how do you guys feel about the end-of-LP freak out time?
My cycles are so irregular that w/out charting I would be spending a huge amount of time in "freak out" mode. Unless I went on the pill, I suppose, but that just has never been an option I've ever considered. My recent variable LP is very annoying, but I'd still be testing at the end of every LP w/even the most remote chance of PG b/c I've decided I want to know about early miscarriages. And while I may "freak" when I post on here, I really don't expend a lot of mental energy on it. So, I guess I don't mind it at all, and I think, for me, things would only be worse with most other methods of BC.

Eresh: Sorry, I guess I totally misunderstood!

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#130 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 03:09 PM
 
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ugh. Anyone else break out when they ovulate? It irritates me. It's seriously just the few days with the most fertile mucus, I happen to also be breaking out. Every month. It can't be a coincidence. I'm on CD20... Last cycle I O'd on CD21 and had a 7 day LP. So this cycle is almost over.

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#131 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 04:00 PM
 
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Yeah I know, it was the clearly triphasic thing that was bothering me.

Related...how do you guys feel about the end-of-LP freak out time? I know others of you have confessed to having it. Do you think it is a disadvantage of charting? I was thinking about this...I really LOVE charting, and I don't really mind wondering every cycle if mayyybe I'm pregnant (probably because becoming pregnant wouldn't be a complete disaster), but I just get frustrated by how much mental energy I waste thinking about it, yk? I mean, when I was on the Pill, I never worried about pregnancy, even though the Pill also has a failure rate. It would never even have crossed my mind until my period showed up late. And maybe that is partly just the stage of my life I was in then, but I think part of it has to do with the respective birth control methods. Whether it's more information or just hormones that causes this whole thing...what do you guys think??
I LOVE charting too but I agree with you...when I was on the Pill, I never gave it a thought even though looking back, we were SUPER risky without even knowing it! I seriously do not know how I did not get pregnant. I would forget days, take the pill at different times, etc.

But now, I spend most of the time during my LP hoping and praying for an "oops". Like I spend waaaaaaay too much time thinking about it. Even when there is no possible way because DH has perfect execution when it comes to W/D. So in some ways, I wish I didn't have so much information. Whenever my temp creeps up, I think "Maybe???" and then I get my hopes crushed everytime AF shows up.

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#132 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 04:17 PM
 
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I break out too and badly. I haven't found anything that works for it except this stuff from Target that is like Proactive, but less exp.

BFS-you're supposed to get af tomorrow too right? I normally wake up with af, or only a few hours later am spotting, and then it's full on almost right off. So tomorrow will tell.

Temp dropped some today, but I temped at 5:30-earlier than normal, so have an open circle.

As far as getting antcy at the end of lp-me too. Not horribly, because I wouldn't care if we got preg, but I still get ancy. This cycle we bd 3 days prior to O, and dh got things sort of around the area, but I figure the chances are slim.
I don't feel pmsy at all. Quite the opposite. I feel like I do before O-want to bd, no mood swings, I have this c/ewcf stuff. I think maybe having a cold or what ever this is, is confusing my body.
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#133 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 04:38 PM
 
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Lots to cover. Let's see if I can get it all.

BFS ~ What Shannon said about your temps.

smyling ~ It seems unlikely that you'd get pg if the only sex you had during your fertile window was with a condom. Of course, condoms still have a 4% failure rate, right? And that's with perfect use.

I break out at O and AF every time. I'm 39 freakin' years old! I shouldn't get pimples anymore. It annoys the heck out of me but I guess it's a good secondary fertility sign for me.

I don't really freak out one way or the other at the end of my lp. If I think there's any chance I could be pg, I usually start testing by 7dpo so I already know one way or the other by the end. Although I do hope that I will get pg, I don't freak out about it. I don't know how I'd be if I really did not want to be pg since I've never been there. I didn't think about that sort of stuff when I was on the pill but I think that was more because of where I was in life. Pregnancy and children just wasn't something that entered my mind really.

So, it'll be interesting to see what my temp does in the next few days. I had a little ewcf first thing this morning but nothing since.

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#134 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 04:54 PM
 
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MW - 4 percent??? I thought it was around 1 or 2. Geez... well actually the 2nd time we dtd we didn't put the condom on till a few minutes in, which is how we also got our daughter. So again, I'm a huge idiot Gonna look at my chart again in a bit, and try to figure out how to start posting them online.
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#135 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yep, I also break out around ovulation, and also typically just before AF comes. Although I'm not this cycle. It's a pain, I hate feeling like a teenager.

bbrandonsmom - Yep, AF due tomorrow. We are still cycle buddies. I usually have a 12 day LP, but it has been 13 days before too, so anytime from now until Friday. I feel like she's coming soon although I don't really have any specific PMS symptoms this cycle.

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#136 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 05:29 PM
 
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MW - 4 percent??? I thought it was around 1 or 2. Geez... well actually the 2nd time we dtd we didn't put the condom on till a few minutes in, which is how we also got our daughter. So again, I'm a huge idiot Gonna look at my chart again in a bit, and try to figure out how to start posting them online.
Oops. According to the info in TCOYF, male condom without spermicides has a method failure rate of 3% and a typical user failure rate of 14%. It's withdrawal, which I use, that has a method failure rate of 4%. DTD a 2nd time without the male urinating between and not using a condom from the beginning could definitely result in a pg.

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#137 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DTD a 2nd time without the male urinating between and not using a condom from the beginning could definitely result in a pg.
Ok this brings up a question. If withdrawal is effective as long as the man has urinated and washed in between, why would starting without a condom be a risk? I mean, unless the man hasn't urinated and washed since the last time, per the rules of withdrawal? We start without a condom all the time.

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#138 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 06:29 PM
 
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Oops. According to the info in TCOYF, male condom without spermicides has a method failure rate of 3% and a typical user failure rate of 14%. It's withdrawal, which I use, that has a method failure rate of 4%. DTD a 2nd time without the male urinating between and not using a condom from the beginning could definitely result in a pg.

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Ok this brings up a question. If withdrawal is effective as long as the man has urinated and washed in between, why would starting without a condom be a risk? I mean, unless the man hasn't urinated and washed since the last time, per the rules of withdrawal? We start without a condom all the time.
Good to know the percentages, I thought it was less for the condoms and more for withdrawal. And as I understand it, starting without a condom is a big risk because pre-cum can come out even during foreplay. Note that this has nothing to do with pre-ejaculation, it's the normal reaction of every aroused guy and he doesn't necessarily feel it, at least not every time. I got pregnant for DD off pre-cum, even though I think the risk is fairly low. The risk would be higher if he hadn't washed and urinated in between, but there is still definite risk to ALL unprotected intercourse even if you switch to a condom. Believe me, I have a child to prove it. (which I don't regret, but still
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#139 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 06:36 PM
 
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Ok this brings up a question. If withdrawal is effective as long as the man has urinated and washed in between, why would starting without a condom be a risk? I mean, unless the man hasn't urinated and washed since the last time, per the rules of withdrawal? We start without a condom all the time.
Starting without a condom isn't a risk if the guy has flushed his system in between. I thought smyling said they dtd twice in a row and didn't use a condom at first the 2nd time. That's what I was responding to. Did I misunderstand that?

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#140 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MW - Oh you are probably right about her situation. I guess I have just heard that before, how you shouldn't start without the condom, but yet at the same time, withdrawal is an effective method. Isn't starting without a condom pretty much withdrawal + condom put together? So I guess it would have the higher failure rate of the two. I don't know...

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#141 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 09:27 PM
 
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Isn't starting without a condom pretty much withdrawal + condom put together? So I guess it would have the higher failure rate of the two. I don't know...

Yeah that's basically what I was saying. One time, withdrawal + condom put together. Dunno what the failure rate for that would be. Thanks for everyone's input, it was very helpful
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#142 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 09:50 PM
 
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Isn't starting without a condom pretty much withdrawal + condom put together? So I guess it would have the higher failure rate of the two. I don't know...
I guess it would depend on when you put the condom on. If you put the condom on halfway through but it's still a while before the guy ejaculates, I'd say that's condom use. I don't really know what constitutes user failure with condoms. Is it putting the thing on wrong or having it slip off? Oh, I think I read that condoms can leak if the guy lingers long enough to start to lose his erection so that the condom becomes loose. Since there's no live sperm in pre-ejaculate, it wouldn't matter if you waited until later to get the condom on as long as you got it on before full ejaculation, right?

If you didn't put the condom on until right before the guy ejaculated, I guess you could consider that withdrawal. But, then, what would be the point of using the condom? I'd think it would all be over by the time you got the thing on.

Did I mention that on top of the pimples I started having cramps 3-4 days ago? I haven't even Oed yet! No wonder we had such trouble getting pg before I started charting. I'd refuse to dtd once I started getting cramps because it hurt so much afterward. Well, if I was getting cramps a few days before O that continued, we probably never dtd at the right time.

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#143 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MW ugh that really stinks about the cramps.

Ok I think I understand what you're saying about condoms and withdrawal now. I suppose a good portion of the "user error" failure rate with withdrawal is..um..not actually withdrawing. So yeah, if you have time to put the condom on it is not really withdrawal, but then also it should be perfectly safe to start without a condom as long as the guy has urinated in between.

Oh! And also, condoms are to prevent not only pregnancy but diseases as well, which can be transimitted through pre-ejaculate...so that's probably a good part of the reason why "perfect use" of condoms involves getting it on before anything happens.

I have another only vaguely charting-related question (I am full of them today) but it will have to wait. I am hailed for bedtime.

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#144 of 379 Old 10-14-2009, 11:16 PM
 
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I've always heard that pre-ejaculate has several million live sperm in it? Now I have to look it up again...
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#145 of 379 Old 10-15-2009, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've always heard that pre-ejaculate has several million live sperm in it? Now I have to look it up again...
Yes, please do. LOL. And report back. I have heard this and all kinds of other conflicting information. The info that seems to have the most credibility behind it is what MW said earlier about urinating in between times, if you (um, I mean your partner) do this there shouldn't be any sperm, but if you don't there could.

And here is my question. Do any of you have special things you do around the beginning of your new cycle (or anytime in the cycle I guess), whether it's a little ritual, something to celebrate your fertility or something, or just treat yourself to something?

I used to do something special for myself in college but I can't for the life of me remember what it was right now. (Pregnancy brain? )

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#146 of 379 Old 10-15-2009, 08:30 AM
 
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Another temp drop this morning. I was really hoping for an oops, especially today. Oh well.
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#147 of 379 Old 10-15-2009, 08:42 AM
 
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I've always heard that pre-ejaculate has several million live sperm in it? Now I have to look it up again...
There's been new research that has shown there is no (or almost no) viable sperm in pre-ejaculate except for the reason states previously. I read it but don't have it bookmarked.

Not wearing a condom from the start every time would be user error, too. I guess it just seems strange to me to do that. I mean, if you're going to use condoms, why wouldn't you use them all the time, every time? I think a lot of these rules apply to young people who have less understanding and control. JMHO

Forgot to mention, I've still got ewcf going on and my temp was the same as yesterday. That's a week now of ewcf. *sigh I've been wondering why it's important for me to O when I've got nothing going on. Referring back to the discussion on the end-of-the-lp freak out, I get more anxious and stressed waiting to O because it takes so long and is so unpredictable for me. That's the most difficult time of my cycle.

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#148 of 379 Old 10-15-2009, 12:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
There's been new research that has shown there is no (or almost no) viable sperm in pre-ejaculate except for the reason states previously. I read it but don't have it bookmarked.

Not wearing a condom from the start every time would be user error, too. I guess it just seems strange to me to do that. I mean, if you're going to use condoms, why wouldn't you use them all the time, every time? I think a lot of these rules apply to young people who have less understanding and control. JMHO

Interesting about the pre-ejaculate. And yes I agree about the other point. Maybe I can use my age (23) as an excuse for no self-control, but I can't. In our case, since we're separated, sex ends up being unexpected and so intense that we just make a stupid decision that we can't wait and kill the moment by getting up and finding a condom, and then a few minutes later kinda come back to earth and change our minds since we REALLY need to avoid pregnancy. tmi maybe? lol
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#149 of 379 Old 10-15-2009, 02:01 PM
 
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When I said young people, I was thinking teenagers. it seems to me, the older
and more experienced you are the less risk you are taking by not using a condom in the beginning. kwim?

but in that case, why bother with a condom when it only decreases the risk by 1%. if you've got enough control to stop in the middle long enough to put a condom on, i'd think you'd have enough control to withdraw. then there's the question about whether using a condom that way increases the risk to the 14% user failure whereas, if you do withdrawal correctly, your risk is only 4%. maybe you're taking more risk by using condoms incorrectly than by doing withdrawal correctly. i'm getting way to analytical.

i'm not even going to touch being separated and still having sex.

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#150 of 379 Old 10-15-2009, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
but in that case, why bother with a condom when it only decreases the risk by 1%. if you've got enough control to stop in the middle long enough to put a condom on, i'd think you'd have enough control to withdraw. then there's the question about whether using a condom that way increases the risk to the 14% user failure whereas, if you do withdrawal correctly, your risk is only 4%. maybe you're taking more risk by using condoms incorrectly than by doing withdrawal correctly. i'm getting way to analytical.
Well...we do it that way because we just like to. We don't like doing withdrawal, and (maybe TMI) I actually kind of like using a condom part of the cycle because it's less messy. I still am not getting how not putting the condom on right away would increase your risk MORE than the risk for withdrawal.

I also think these studies have probably just not been done.

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