October 2009 Charting to Avoid Thread - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome to the October 2009 charting to avoid thread. If you would like to be added or removed (or have anything changed) from the roll call list, please let me know by PMing me. PM me if you'd like to start next month's thread.

Here's a link to last month's September thread.
If you did not post in August or September, you may have been deleted from the list. If you were mistakenly deleted, or you would like to be added/removed, please PM me and let me know. I cannot promise to make changes requested in the thread, but I will try to get to everything.

*Charting/Using FAM/NFP to AVOID*

who we are:

54mama - since 8/09
Ajbaby - since 8/09
alicewyf - CTA since 9/09 plus 6 m before
AnnieA - since 12/07
annie2186
BarefootScientist - since 08/08 and 12 cycles in '05-'06
bbrandonsmom
brittneyscott - since 8/09
Carlin - CTA since 8/09
craft_media_hero
DanaMarie
eirual - CTA for 2.5 years
elonwy - since 8/09
Eresh - since 8/09
GriffsKat - since 4/09
heathermarie73
HulaJenn – since 4/09
JoyFilled
Kelm711
LadyBee
laurelg - CTA since 10/09, plus 16 months before
MarineWife – CTA for 10 months, now CFS&G
michelleoverby - since 8/07
mommyevekitty - since 9/09
momtokimari
motray36 - charting since 10/04
MovingMomma - since 02/09 + some time before
mystic~mama - CTA for 3 years
NaturalMindedMomma -
Nazsmum
nerdymom - CTA since 8/09
phatchristy
pmojzak
RaraAvis - CTA since 8/09 plus 13 months before
ScarletBegonias - CTA since 4/09
Smylingeyz - CTA since 06/08
whitekole
wholewheatchick - since 05/09

Graduates (no longer charting to avoid)
maggirayne -- CTA 02/08-10/08
JuicyPakwan - CTA 06/07 - 06/08 (?)
jul511riv - CTA 17 mo
Mrs_Lurker - CTA 11 mo
augustinem -- cta 6 mo
DanelleB - 12/07 - 05/08
Runner29 - CTA since 07/07 + 2 years previous
ShwarmaQueen - CTA since 09/07
BananaBreadGirl - CTA for 2 years
sk8ermaiden - 09/07-10/08
texaspeach - 10/04 - 01/09
cfiddlinmama - CTA 11/07 - 01/09 + more prior
CanidFL - CTA 06/08 - 02/09
Shell_Ell - (FF) (OS) 11/04 - 02/09 (15 cycles)
Juliacat - CTA 03/08 - 03/09, +33 cycles prior from 2001-2004
mommy2twobabes - CTA 7/08 - 03/08
Othermother'n'madre - CTA 02/08 - 04/09
cahwilson - 01/09 - 04/09
lacysmommy – 04/09-05/09
DucetteMama21842 - CTA 11/08 - 7/09
Danielle283 -
Teenytoona - 2/09-8/09
Virginia884 - 2/09 - 8/09
momongeon
Laggie - 1/09 - 9/09
wannaBmom_NICU_RN - 1/09-9/09
dachshundqueen - since 6/04

Pregnancies per Month (due to user error or condom failure unless otherwise noted)
February - at least 1
March - 2
April – 2
May – 2
June – 0
July - 0
August - 0
September - 1

Happy charting!

Summary of FAM rules (sympto-thermal)

Pre-ovulation rules:

1) First 5 Days Rule: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had an obvious temp shift 12-16 days before.

2) Dry day rule: You are safe to DTD after 6PM if you have been dry all day.

Post ovulation rules:

1) Peak day rule: the last day of fertile mucous is called the peak day (the day before your mucous begins to dry up). You are safe to DTD on the fourth consecutive day after the peak day. If another patch of more fertile mucous appears, start your count over.

2) Temperature shift rule: You are safe the evening of the third consecutive day your temp is above your coverline. If your temp falls at or below the coverline during the 3 day count, begin your count again.

BOTH rules must be satisfied to be considered in your infertile phase.

How to set a coverline:

When you see a temperature shift of at least 0.2 degrees F above the highest of the previous 6 temps, draw a line 0.1 degrees F above that highest temp.

Resources

Books:
Taking Charge of Your Fertility, by Toni Weschler
Garden of Fertility and Honoring Our Cycles workbook, by Katie Singer
The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Sheila Kippley
Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing: How Ecological Breastfeeding Spaces Babies by Sheila Kippley
Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon

Websites:
Ovusoft charting software, and brief fertility library
Fertility Friend charting software, and ttc charting guide
Author Katie Singer's Garden of Fertility website
Billings Ovulation Method info
Billings Ovulation Method Association, USA
Billings Centre, CA
Couple to Couple League (find an NFP instructor)
Creighton Model


Abbreviations:
AF: Aunt Flo, your period
BFP: what we are trying to avoid, a positive pregnancy test
CD: Cycle day
CM: cervical mucous (same as CF)
CF: cervical fluid (same as CM)
DPO: Days past ovulation
DTD: Do the deed
GIO: get it on
EWCM: eggwhite cervical mucous/fluid
LP: Luteal phase - the time from ovulation until your period, average 10-16 days
LTL: low temp level (basically 1/10th below FAM's CL or on the highest of the 6 previous temps)
HTL: high temp level (4/10ths above LTL, temp rise needed to indicate O)

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#2 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 01:06 AM
 
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So - I have ANOTHER question - sigh

It has been a few days since my fertile CM has dried up (I also have the CueII that also confirms no fertile CM) and I don't personally think I O'd.........just a feeling - dont feel hormonal - AND mostly my boobs don't hurt like hell - which always is a sure sign of impending Aunt Flo or pregnancy! LOL

Which leads me to the question to all of you ladies who have done this before (while paying attention which I wasn't last time) did you KNOW when you O'd that first time - or if it was an annovulatory first cycle was it just a surprise or what? Oh, and I don't temp - I plan on trying it once I actually get my first PPAF (hopefully! he he he) but for now I just...........can't - to lazy I guess!

Just kind of wondering for personal reasons.............

On another note - I feel better about telling my husband to stay the hell away from me when I am potentially fertile now LOL

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#3 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 06:56 AM
 
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Annie: I know my "feelings" are almost always right . . except every once in a while when I'm wrong and then get pregnant. i figure the only way to be SURE is temping, which really is easy once you get going. . .
Speaking of which:
My Ovulation Chart
What do you think? Clear shift or wait for a few more temps? Day 17 was a PEAK day, both CM wise and jump-on-my-husband wise.

P.S. Every time I pick up my "button" from FF sharing I see the Facebook option and imaging people putting their charts on FACEBOOK. drop That's crazier than Tweeting your labor(I can understand that, although i don't think I'd ever do it -- my DH's family working the phone is bad enough.)

BFS - you are such a conscientious moderator! We always start the month off right with a new thread!

*BETH* mother of DD (8) and DS (6) along with 2 dogs, 2 cats and about 100 chickens
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#4 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 08:28 AM
 
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BFS: Thanks for the new thread! Maybe October will see cooler temps here...it was almost 90 degrees F yesterday, esp. with the humidity. I HATE living in the South!

Rara: looks like a beautiful thermal shift to me!

AFM: um, CD 34. http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/277407 Thankfully my temps have evened out. Still waiting for O.

Emily--Married to the love of my life 2008--Joyful mommy to Rachel Elizabeth 12/10
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#5 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 08:42 AM
 
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Rara ~ Looks very obvious to me. I'd say you are safe.

annie ~ I've never tried figuring out whether or not I Oed just by how I feel. I've always used temps to confirm it. So, I can't really answer your question. It is possible, especially when waiting for your first PP cycle, to have several patches of fertile CF and not O. If you have 4 consecutive days of CF dry up, you can consider yourself safe after 6 pm of the 4th day. However, at the first sight of any CF again, you should go back to being cautious.

Yay for temps settling, WWC.

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#6 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 09:30 AM
 
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Annie: Nope, no "knowing" for me. The only way I can tell if I've O'd is temps.

Rara: What would you wait for? Your chart looks clear as can be!

WWC: Glad your temps are less spiky!

AFM: I've got my O now, and I'm actually hoping for a LP on the shorter side this time b/c DH is hoping I won't start AF right when he gets home. My chart.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#7 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 10:34 AM
 
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Good morning ladies! Thanks for the new thread BFS! Looks great as always.

So here's my surefire way to get AF going (although I must say I'd be happy if she stayed away! ). I'm going to post about how I *might* be preggo and that way I will have to come back on here later on today and write about how it was a false alarm and AF is here. So potentially botched W/D during the evening of CD 14...veerrrrry slight spotting yesterday but that is COMPLETELY gone...temp still up and it's 11 DPO (I checked previous cycles and my temps usually start dropping by now)...odd cramping on and off and just a general feeling of something's odd in my body so much so that yesterday morning I mentioned to DH that I may be coming down with something...the thought of coffee yesterday morning kind of made my stomach turn but I'm drinking it this morning...CP yesterday moved all around and was very low at one point but I just checked this morning and it's pretty high...breasts tender but not overly so...

I fully expect to start spotting at any point and for my temp to drop tomorrow...right? http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1f0436

Annie wife v2.0 to DH and joyfully parenting DSS 18 jog.gif, DSD 15 knit.gif, DSD 14 banana.gif, DSS 12bikenew.gifand heart hero DD 2superhero.gif. angel1.gif 8/2010

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#8 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 12:35 PM
 
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Thanks for the new thread BFS!
Annie - sometimes temps don't drop until post AF, so i wouldn't freak if they don't drop (although last cycle they did, but you need a longer history of charts to determine your "norm" and even then some cycles get slightly off for whatever reasons). But with the spotting, I would say AF is definately close.
AFM: hopefully I won't ruin October's stats, but we are not being overly careful. Using withdrawal, and DTD twice on cd8 - which isn't bad but still had EWCF.(so even though DH pulled out the first time, doing it again, would likely have ahd swimmers still in "the tube" :-)) Looks like my O is gonna be a bit later than usual but the full moon isn't for another couple days so that could be why too (very interesting to see the pattern with O/AF and the moon cycles!)
My Chart

Jenn (36), wife to DH for 13 years, DD1(13) , DD2(10) and DS(4)

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#9 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 12:49 PM
 
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Quick CF question:

I have an abundance of what appears to be creamy *and* watery CM. I can get maybe a centimeter of stretch out of it. But I feel pretty slippery /tmi. Is this considered fertile, or still creamy/non-fertile?

TIA!

me, my man, and our boys (1/08 and 3/11)
 

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#10 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 01:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
I have an abundance of what appears to be creamy *and* watery CM. I can get maybe a centimeter of stretch out of it. But I feel pretty slippery /tmi. Is this considered fertile, or still creamy/non-fertile?
For tta, any cf is considered potentially fertile unless your BIP is sticky. Creamy is always considered fertile. Some women only get creamy as their most fertile cf. Watery is more fertile and ew is most fertile. So, with a mix of creamy/watery cf, I'd say you are potentially fertile right now.

AnnieA ~ I'd be poas now if I were you. That doesn't mean I think you are pg, though. I'm just a poasaholic.

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#11 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 01:50 PM
 
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Thanks MW!

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#12 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 01:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
Thanks MW!
NP. BTW, vag sensation is just as important as visual cf. If you don't see any cf but you have a sticky/cold/slippery/lubricative feeling, you need to pay attention to that feeling. Go with whatever is most fertile.

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#13 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 02:02 PM
 
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AnnieA ~ I'd be poas now if I were you. That doesn't mean I think you are pg, though. I'm just a poasaholic.
I usually am as well but I don't have any tests and I don't want to drive across town to the dollar store to buy any. So as of now, I am going to try to wait until Sunday evening...if nothing has started by then, I will have DH stop by the dollar store after we drop off the kids at their mom's house.

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#14 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 03:15 PM
 
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WWC-looks like another annov cycle, keeping fingers crossed the next one is normal for you

Hula-I'm w/ you and only partially charting. We'll see what happens, I haven't o'd yet this month. But have many days of ewcf like my first cycle.
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#15 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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annie2186 - Nope, had no idea when I ovulated the first time even though I WAS temping (well kind of, I was out of town for a funeral so missed several temps). There's really no way to know for sure...

RaraAvis - I agree with everyone else that your shift is crystal clear and quite beautiful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaraAvis View Post
P.S. Every time I pick up my "button" from FF sharing I see the Facebook option and imaging people putting their charts on FACEBOOK. drop That's crazier than Tweeting your labor(I can understand that, although i don't think I'd ever do it -- my DH's family working the phone is bad enough.)

BFS - you are such a conscientious moderator! We always start the month off right with a new thread!
Lol, sharing your chart on facebook...yeah that's a little too open for me. I'm trying to imagine the comments I'd get, or more likely, no comments but people starting to subtly avoid me at family functions... Thanks for the compliment. I don't think I'm a moderator, just a thread-starter.

AnnieA - It doesn't look too concerning to me. You've had some spotting, and last cycle your temps were only trending down at this point, not plummeting. So it's probably just the end-of-LP freak-out. Tho I know you wouldn't mind an oops...so hey, maybe you are!! I'll be waiting and watching.

suzywan - In addition to what MW said, I always consider anything that is slippery to be very fertile.

AFM, still awaiting O, CD 17. Was really nauseous this morning so maybe today is the day. Not looking forward to it too much, actually. It seems my symptoms, especially breast tenderness/being driven crazy by nursing, cramps, and nausea are getting worse every cycle. I told DH we need to have another baby to make the cramps go away. Um...he laughed.

Oh, and... chart!

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#16 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 04:15 PM
 
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NP. BTW, vag sensation is just as important as visual cf. If you don't see any cf but you have a sticky/cold/slippery/lubricative feeling, you need to pay attention to that feeling. Go with whatever is most fertile.
Ok - how would I enter that into FF? Watery? No stretching so not EW. Also, I haven't charted since I got pregnant in 2007 and that was my only full month of charting, so I don't have any well documented cycle history, however, I recall only having sore breasts post-O, yet this month they already hurt at CD 12. I don't have enough temps to establish an O date in FF, yet, but am curious if sore breasts could be an O symptom, rather than just an effect of progesterone in the LP.

Make sense? TIA!

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#17 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 04:33 PM
 
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I can't decide if I'm safe or not. My chart has a shift on it but I was sick from cd 40 to cd 49 and I have very lube sensation with creamy/watery cf. My cervix was also so high this morning I couldn't reach it.
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/27d146

Do any of you ladies have any wisdom for me? I'm getting very discouraged with my cycles and have recently developed a sensitivity to condoms and spermicide. Dh also refuses to w/d and I really want to dtd but I REALLY don't want to get pregnant. Day after day of creamy/watery cf is driving me bonkers.
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#18 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 04:43 PM
 
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whitekole: I think it would be worth your while to investigate your health with a physician (preferrably one who is familiar with charting). You have some very low temps. Are you breastfeeding?

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#19 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 04:54 PM
 
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whitekole: I think it would be worth your while to investigate your health with a physician (preferrably one who is familiar with charting). You have some very low temps. Are you breastfeeding?
Yes, I'm nursing my 11 month old.
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#20 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 04:54 PM
 
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Whitekole ~ Those are very low temps. Not typical at all. It does look to me like you've had a thermal shift. Your cf seems to line up with that somewhat. If that was due to illness, it looks like you may be having another one starting today. If that's the case, it could be O for you. Two more high temps would confirm it. Whenever in doubt, though, use caution.

suzy ~ FF has an option for watery under the CF button. I think tender breasts can be an O symptom. I seem to be more sensitive just in the past 2 days. I really can't stand ds nursing right now. It either just annoys me or it really hurts and I have to cut him off. I also get cramps before O. I don't know how typical that is, though.

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#21 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 07:15 PM
 
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hi, just jumping in with a question if you don't mind. i'm looking to get started charting but don't know much about where to start. i'm bf and haven't had a period yet but we still need to use other methods to be super safe and make it to the deadline for a hbac in our state but i would like to get in the habit and know what's going on with my body, ykwim? does anyone have any advice for a beginner? what kind of thermometer do you use/like?

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#22 of 379 Old 10-01-2009, 09:06 PM
 
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Well, I know I'll need more temps to tell for sure, but I'm pretty positive I O'd yesterday. And DH didn't want to try to make a baby ... though we did have a long conversation about FAM/fertility signs.

We're planning on flying out to California (from Virginia) on Saturday to visit family for a week. I'm thinking about not temping the 4th - 11th. That would give me 3 post-O temps (though the 3rd would be an hour earlier than usual). Here's my chart if you want to take a look. I "ignored" one day after we played The Great Bink Hunt at 3am. And between forgetting my allergy meds for a few days and DS climbing into bed with me at 3am a few days my temps were a bit funky, but I think the temp shift/CF/secondary signs were pretty clear to me.

One other thing I noticed is I had a long stretch of sticky/creamy CF. I wasn't sure what to mark it, so I marked it creamy, but my feeling is if it's the same next cycle I'll regard it as non-fertile. Thoughts?

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#23 of 379 Old 10-02-2009, 10:01 AM
 
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vermontmama: on the first post of this thread, there's a resource list. And we all live and breathe by Taking Charge of Your Fertility. My favorite thermomenter so far has been the purple basal one from CVS. Not walgreens; CVS. (my DH made that mistake when I sent him to go find a new therm when that one died).

Eresh: I'm not an expert, and BFS and MW probably have a better idea...but your chart only shows 4 days of S/C before super fertile CF. That is normal; and that "gearing up" CF IS FERTILE. The sperm can still survive in that, although their favorite is obviously EWCF. Also, I'm not seeing a clear O day on your chart...if you did O on CD 20, then it is not "classic" that you would have 2 days of EW or W CF after that...I'm sure someone else on here can be of more help than I am!

AFM: CD 35. I changed my interpretation to FAM. Today's temp was higher than the previous 7, but because of those rocky temps before I'm just not sure...I'm hoping that yesterday was an O dip and that tomorrow's and the next day's temps are even higher, but I'm obviously not holding my breath! chart

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#24 of 379 Old 10-02-2009, 10:19 AM
 
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I guess in retrospect it wasn't that long with creamy/sticky -- it just seemed forever. I guess you're right, for avoiding I should regard it as potentially fertile. *Sigh*

I'd thought I O'd on day 21 though FF says day 20. I had another Bink Hunt at 0300 again on day 20, so I was up and out of bed in that 3 hr window before temping. And while it's hard to show gradients between EWCF on days 20 and 21, day 20 was definitely the peak of fertile CF. Also from last cycle, I never got EW (1st cycle after removing the Mirena IUD), but I still had a day of more fertile CF after O. Maybe that's just me?

Anyhow ... thanks for feedback. I'm still learning this.

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#25 of 379 Old 10-02-2009, 10:29 AM
 
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Post me as a graduate. I'm in the 2ww. ETA: DH is certain he will get me pregnant this cycle. The conversation was hilarious.

Liz

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#26 of 379 Old 10-02-2009, 10:40 AM
 
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vermontmama ~ When I'm waiting for my first PPAF, I only track CF. I don't start temping until after that first PPAF starts. You can always start temping at any time but there might be some issues. First, you may not get enough temps to confirm O if you start temping just a few days before. Second, if your still a ways off from O, you could end up with a very long chart with a bunch of useless temps. You only need to pay attention to the 6 temps immediately previous to your thermal shift. Of course, you don't know which 6 temps those will be until after the fact.

WWC ~ Like I just said, you need only pay attention to the most recent 6 temps when trying to determine your thermal shift. Right now, your CL would be 97.4 and you have one temp above that. So, this could mean O. As always, you need to more consecutive temps above 97.4 to confirm.

Eresh ~ I think it's too soon for you to confirm O yet. I'd put your CL at 97.3. You only have two temps above that. If tomorrow's temp is above that, I'd set your O day to cd21. It's kind of iffy, though, whether to keep your CL at 97.3 or 97.4. It looks like your temps are not quite on the lines. Are you recording temps to the 1/100th degree? If so, you don't need to. I think TCOYF actually advises against that. You need only record your temp to the nearest 1/10th of a degree.

WRT to the fertile CF after O, that does happen with some women. Not everyone completely dries up right after O. As far as determining your peak day, if you have watery after ew, I think you consider the watery as your peak day. If you have creamy after ew, even though creamy is considered potentially fertile, you count the last ew as peak day and the creamy as first dry up day. That would mean your peak day was cd22. Quantity doesn't matter, only quality. A week of CF is pretty typical.

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#27 of 379 Old 10-02-2009, 10:40 AM
 
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Post me as a graduate. I'm in the 2ww.

Liz
Huh? How does that make you a agraduate? Are you in the 2ww or are you pg?

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#28 of 379 Old 10-02-2009, 11:01 AM
 
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Huh? How does that make you a agraduate? Are you in the 2ww or are you pg?
We decided to quit CTA and to intentionally have unprotected sex in the hopes of achieving pregnancy as I'm ovulating and we've decided we want a third.

Liz

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#29 of 379 Old 10-02-2009, 11:07 AM
 
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We decided to quit CTA and to intentionally have unprotected sex in the hopes of achieving pregnancy as I'm ovulating and we've decided we want a third.

Liz
Ah, ok. Cool! Good luck! Can your dp have a heart-to-heart with my dh?

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#30 of 379 Old 10-02-2009, 11:10 AM
 
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DH has always wanted a third but I've got mild prolapse and I've been nursing or pregnant or nursing and pregnant or tandeming since 6 weeks after we were married in 2004.............so I've wanted a break understandably. But if we want 4, maybe, we need to get on it! I'm 30 and with 2-3 years between kids it needs to happen.

Liz

Wife, and mother to a small fairy, a demolition expert, a special new someone this fall and a small dachshund.
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