Charting to Avoid, November 2009 - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 321 Old 11-05-2009, 11:21 PM
 
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momtokimari: We talked about responsibility, who interprets the charts, etc. just last month, I think. It was an interesting conversation... TAoNFP recommends the husband interpret.

AM: I don't think it's unusual at all to move immediately into a typical phase I after a miscarriage.

NMM: I don't think it's likely you've O'd after one day of EWCM. Are you coming down with something?

Here's a link to a recent scholarly paper titled "Does the contraceptive pill alter mate choice in humans?" that has a nice summary of various changes throughout the menstrual cycle and how they impact both men & women's perceptions of attractiveness. When we are ovulating we have more attractive voices, more attractive appearances, a greater desire for sex (um, duh!), desire a more masculine partner, dress more provocatively, make more money while stripping, smell more attractive etc. Men find ovulating women more attractive.

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#62 of 321 Old 11-05-2009, 11:45 PM
 
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although it would've been nice if the instinct came up only when it was practical to get pregnant.
Right

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momtokimari: We talked about responsibility, who interprets the charts, etc. just last month, I think. It was an interesting conversation... TAoNFP recommends the husband interpret.
Right. We learned from a great couple by going to ccli.org and signing up and they teach TAoNFP. Considering my husband has a natural mind for this kinda stuff, it works out well. I kinda tend to write it down and forget about it. haha. Unless there is enough fertile CM to remind me.
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Here's a link to a recent scholarly paper titled "Does the contraceptive pill alter mate choice in humans?" that has a nice summary of various changes throughout the menstrual cycle and how they impact both men & women's perceptions of attractiveness. When we are ovulating we have more attractive voices, more attractive appearances, a greater desire for sex (um, duh!), desire a more masculine partner, dress more provocatively, make more money while stripping, smell more attractive etc. Men find ovulating women more attractive.
Very interesting!

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#63 of 321 Old 11-06-2009, 08:59 AM
 
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make more money while stripping
Cool! Now I only need to work a few days out of every month.

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#64 of 321 Old 11-06-2009, 10:41 AM
 
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MW: I know, right? Strippers could totally maximize their profits by charting!

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#65 of 321 Old 11-06-2009, 10:54 AM
 
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So, the pill is to blame for apparent decreased human health and the rise of the divorce rate. That explains everything!

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#66 of 321 Old 11-06-2009, 10:59 AM
 
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MW: I know, right? Strippers could totally maximize their profits by charting!
I wonder if that applies to any job where women get tips. Female servers, massage therapists, barbers, etc. could all potentially make more money by serving more male clients during oestrus. Women should go on job interviews with men during oestrus and with women during . Then they'd get paid as much as men rather than less. Hey, we've really stumbled on something here.

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#67 of 321 Old 11-06-2009, 11:25 AM
 
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What can make you ovulate early? My cycles are usually 45 days, that's usual for me. For some strange reason I ovulated 2 weeks earlier! Guess my birthday present will be my period. Great. At least I think I ovulated. I had spotting yesterday and a temp hike yesterday and again today. The only thing I can think of is that I've lost more inches, so therefore fat. And in my understanding fat makes estrogen and the more estrogen you have circulating in your body can cause cycles to go wacky. Which would explain when I was 280lbs I wasn't getting a cycle. Everytime I loose more fat my cycle gets more normal. Granted, I'm not heavy now, I'm weight lifting so the fat is coming off. I lost 9.5inches total in the past two months.

What do you think?

Oh, heres my cycle link.

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#68 of 321 Old 11-06-2009, 01:55 PM
 
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I'm so excited to have found this thread! You ladies are so informative!

I had been CTA for a couple years before I had my first baby and it worked great for me...but now I'm a little nervous, with signs being hard to distinguish while BFing and wow!- my cervix feels a lot different after having pushed out a baby!

A whole new adventure in compulsive cervix checking...

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#69 of 321 Old 11-06-2009, 03:15 PM
 
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MW: Good point about the "Advanced" detector on FF -- I know I have my own way I write down CF/CP stuff that's sort of a personal shorthand, since I pretty much know what should be going on -- I wonder what other people do. . .

Here's the chart:
My Ovulation Chart

Just like you said, I'm a day late and a dollar short but am NOT freaking. Not. Not. Not. (Except for freaking that i'm not freaking enough and am jinxing myself.) No. We were total angels this month, so no worries.

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#70 of 321 Old 11-06-2009, 03:40 PM
 
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I wonder if that applies to any job where women get tips. Female servers, massage therapists, barbers, etc. could all potentially make more money by serving more male clients during oestrus. Women should go on job interviews with men during oestrus and with women during . Then they'd get paid as much as men rather than less. Hey, we've really stumbled on something here.

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#71 of 321 Old 11-06-2009, 03:47 PM
 
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I'm so excited to have found this thread! You ladies are so informative!

I had been CTA for a couple years before I had my first baby and it worked great for me...but now I'm a little nervous, with signs being hard to distinguish while BFing and wow!- my cervix feels a lot different after having pushed out a baby!

A whole new adventure in compulsive cervix checking...
My thoughts exactly! I'm in the same situation at 17 months postpartum. Temp all over the place, constant tacky feeling, os shaped like a smiley mouth...
I know you can ovulate before the first period and that scares the heck out of me. I never thought I'd go this long without a period and the not knowing is really unnerving.

And (duh) I never even realized that you could chart online! I had a bunch of photocopies back in the day. Now I have to figure out which site to use. Suggestions???

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#72 of 321 Old 11-06-2009, 04:12 PM
 
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Griff ~ It could just be one wacky cycle. Fat loss or gain can definitely affect your cycles. So, if this change continues, I'd bet it's your fat loss that has changed things. Congrats on the lost inches!

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#73 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 12:01 AM
 
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So, the pill is to blame for apparent decreased human health and the rise of the divorce rate. That explains everything!
Well, back in the 60's when the Pill became legal, the pope at the time, Pope Paul VI, wrote an encyclical called Humanavetae (sp?) and one of the things that he predicted would happen if the Pill gained widespread use was the increase in divorces.

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#74 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 12:14 AM
 
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So the big news (and why I haven't posted in a while) ...

A couple of weeks ago, right before O, DH told me he changed his mind and didn't want any more kids. This after agreeing to at least stop preventing in October. So, needless to say, the stop preventing didn't happen.

I was pretty angry and depressed until finally, a couple of days ago, I got my head out of my ass and talked to DH and told him how upset I was. Yes, I am the Queen of Avoidance. So now he at least understands how important this is to me. He hasn't committed to anything yet, but at least it's not "no more kids" anymore. So I'm hoping in November I'll "graduate" from CTA. But I guess we'll see

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#75 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 12:20 AM
 
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Well, back in the 60's when the Pill became legal, the pope at the time, Pope Paul VI, wrote an encyclical called Humanavetae (sp?) and one of the things that he predicted would happen if the Pill gained widespread use was the increase in divorces.
For different reasons, I'd think.

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#76 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 12:34 AM
 
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I was SO mad this morning because my thermometer went missing... I had such a pretty graph going on too. 5 days straight of 97.3 and one 97.4 - love it when that happens. But now it's ruined :'( I really want to put it in like a normal temp but I know I shouldn't... Grr
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#77 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 12:51 AM
 
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For different reasons, I'd think.
Haha. Probably for mostly different reasons... Like an increase in casual sex. Casual sex, IMHO, is very detrimental to marriage in general because it makes the marital act a bit less special. And you don't have to necessarily have the same depth of feeling for your partner if there is (in your mind) no chance of creating a child together and being stuck with them for the next 18 years. lol But (for all my not being Catholic or understanding the Church) I'm pretty sure the pope was educated, and might very well have understood a bit of that science. Who really knows?

Now, just to be clear... I'm not saying anyone engaging in casual sex is in any way a bad person. I just know the statistics. I wasn't a virgin when I got with my husband... but he was!

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#78 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 01:19 AM
 
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Haha. Probably for mostly different reasons... Like an increase in casual sex. Casual sex, IMHO, is very detrimental to marriage in general because it makes the marital act a bit less special. And you don't have to necessarily have the same depth of feeling for your partner if there is (in your mind) no chance of creating a child together and being stuck with them for the next 18 years. lol But (for all my not being Catholic or understanding the Church) I'm pretty sure the pope was educated, and might very well have understood a bit of that science. Who really knows?
I can't resist replying, but it's a heavy subject for me so I'll keep it minimal. I think you pegged it pretty well, and I haven't read Humane Vitae myself but I think there's a lot of explaining the science behind the morals being presented. There are at least a LOT of Catholic books that go into it so I'm sure the pope is well educated in that stuff. I was a virgin when I met my husband, he very much wasn't, and it's impacted our marriage greatly. Most of the reason we're currently separated come down to intimacy/sexual issues he developed way before we met. The whole casual sex thing and cultural desensitization to intimacy is destructive to real relationships in a huge way, and was foreseen by a lot of people such as the pope who tried to warn us.
Sorry, I totally forgot what point I was trying to make, this subject hits so personally I got all fired up and then confused myself I just wish people thought of the big picture before they decided to settle down and regret so much. Anyway... I'll go drink some wine now.
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#79 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 09:05 AM
 
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Well, I think my thermometer is finally on it's last leg. Not only was it acting weird last cycle but this week, it had a fight with a Jack Russell Terrier and I'm pretty sure the terrier won! It's still working but it sounds sick. On top of that, I went to Target the other day to look for a replacement and they have changed their thermometers with their new stupid "Up and Up" thing. (Sorry to call it stupid but it has made my blood boil on a number of occasions recently when looking for something there.) So the new thermometer doesn't hold 5 temps. GRRRRRRRR! I tried to figure out if there was a way to change the battery in my old Target therm, but I don't see a way to get to the battery area. Anyone have any luck changing out the battery on the old Target purple BBT?

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#80 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 10:53 AM
 
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The whole casual sex thing and cultural desensitization to intimacy is destructive to real relationships in a huge way,
I really don't want to get into a discussion of religion and morals. I prefer not to apply external morals to humans. This idea of "casual" sex being detrimental to "real" relationships is very dependent on the structure of the society. In cultures where marriage or life-long pair bonding between males and females is not expected, from what I've read and seen, there seems to be more intimacy and true caring for each other compared to modern Western societies. Sex is not seen as an immoral act that should be reserved only for procreation. It is just a natural part of life like eating and pooping. Maternally genetically related families take care of their own. Rather than husbands and paternally related fathers, men genetically maternally related to females like uncles, brothers and grandfathers help take care of the females' children.

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#81 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 11:23 AM
 
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Interesting discussion about BCP relation to casual sex. I won't get into that, but I will say that DH and I have only ever "been" with each other, and were both virgins until the day we got engaged! lol And it has been awesome for us, but as MW said, lots of other people do it differently, and they have great relationships too.

AFM: My temp is higher than normal. I'm thinking it's not the time change anymore...I'm hoping it is the lower estrogen levels!!! http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/277407 I've effectively eliminated soy, and I've reduced chick pea consumption, and I'm not eating sweet potatoes or carrots, so I really do think that that my phytoestrogen intake is down. But I am such a sucker for pumpkin!!! Have not been able to give that up at all!

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#82 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 12:04 PM
 
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Hi everyone. I haven't been around in quite a long time but I have a question and you ladies are by far the most knowledgeable regarding NFP; I hope you don't mind me popping in with a question.

BG: I've been charting for a little over 2 years using the FAM method. I typically don't ovulate until at least day 26 (and often it's as much as day 40-50) but on occassion I've o'd earlier. For whatever reason, in these past 2 years, the timing of my temperature taking never mattered. I could temp at 6 a.m. or at 8 a.m. and get the same temp which made life with a newborn much easier when it came to temping! I'm really "regular" with my temps. Pre-o I'm 97.2 and post o I'm 97.8. Some of my charts look silly because it's just a flat line, a jump up and another flat line.

Ok so with that background here is what is going on: This cycle I had a random spike in temperature pre-o. There was no fertile signs prior and I just assumed it was just a weird wonky temp for whatever reason. Sure enough the next few temps were back to pre-o temps. Then a few days later I started to notice my cm was sort of a sticky/creamy and on it's way to becoming ewcm. I told dh I was fertile and we'd have to use condoms until I o'd.

Then we were stupid that night, first time ever in these 2 years, and dtd without a condom. :

The following day I'm not sure what the cm really was since we'd dtd the night before. My temp was still a pre-o temp. The 2nd day after dtd I had definite ewcm and my temp was up to a post-o temp. That really threw me. Today is the 3rd day after dtd and this morning I temped at 6:30 when my ds came into my room randomly and it was a pre-o temp (phew!). Then I went back to sleep, woke at 7:20, and temped again just for the heck of it and it was a post-o temp!

So now I don't know what to believe. The timing never mattered before. I typically temp at 7 during the week. So 6:30 was a little early and 7:20 was a little late. Which temp would you use? I checked myself last night and I had no ewcm and I was low, firm, and closed.

I just really want to figure out if I o'd so I know whether or not to panic for the next 2 weeks. I hate not knowing!

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#83 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 01:18 PM
 
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shelsi ~ i'd use the first temp. you can always put the 2nd temp in your notes for future reference.

i wanted to clarify something. when i said bcps were the cause of the rise in the divorce rate i wasn't referring to women becoming more promiscuous. i was referring to the idea that the hormones in the bcps circumvent natural hormone production thereby effectively turning off the hormonal cues and instincts that drive mate selection. women and men would choose marriage partners for reasons other than optimal reproduction. once they are ready to reproduce and go off the bcps they realize they have paired with suboptimal mates.

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#84 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey everyone. Sorry I haven't been around much - my mom is visiting and we are going crazy getting stuff done around here - we've cleaned out the garage and painted the kitchen already. So I won't be around much for a few more days but I've been trying to at least read the thread. And I think I've added everyone's names and charts to the list who wanted to be added, if I missed you let me know. Welcome to the newcomers!

The discussion on how ovulation and the Pill affects you is fascinating. I will give that article a read too when I get a chance. MW, I was wondering if you had any more details on those societies where there isn't monogamous pairing - what societies and do you have any links or anything? I think it's really beneficial to chart or at least know where you are in your cycle even if you don't need to because at least I have really noticed how my moods and various things can change throughout my cycle.

Griffskat, I'm not sure that I would call O yet.

Angelique - I like FF for charting online and sharing with these ladies.

Eresh, I hope you and dh get things figured out soon.

Shelsi, do you have a chart link we can stalk? I would probably use the lower temp this morning.

AFM, 3 dpo. FF says 4 dpo but I don't agree. Now off to clean the kitchen and probably get started on some more painting! Have a good weekend everyone.

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#85 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 02:04 PM
 
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i wanted to clarify something. when i said bcps were the cause of the rise in the divorce rate i wasn't referring to women becoming more promiscuous. i was referring to the idea that the hormones in the bcps circumvent natural hormone production thereby effectively turning off the hormonal cues and instincts that drive mate selection. women and men would choose marriage partners for reasons other than optimal reproduction. once they are ready to reproduce and go off the bcps they realize they have paired with suboptimal mates.
That's really interesting! Makes sense too.

Oh and on the casual sex thing, I wasn't judging anyone here or anyone who has different morals than I do. I think peoples morals evolve one way or the other over their lifespan, and know a lot of people who come to deeply regret things they've done sexually, because looking back they realize it's affected things such as intimacy and connection with their spouse. But ultimately it's just important that both partners are on the same page about that stuff. I hope I didn't come off as being mean. And I in no way think sex is an immoral act or reserved only for procreation. Again, just important to be in agreement with your partner so nobody gets hurt.

If I enter a really late taken temp into FF, will it automatically discard it? Because otherwise my chart's gonna be messed up I think.
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#86 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 03:28 PM
 
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i wanted to clarify something. when i said bcps were the cause of the rise in the divorce rate i wasn't referring to women becoming more promiscuous. i was referring to the idea that the hormones in the bcps circumvent natural hormone production thereby effectively turning off the hormonal cues and instincts that drive mate selection. women and men would choose marriage partners for reasons other than optimal reproduction. once they are ready to reproduce and go off the bcps they realize they have paired with suboptimal mates.
I found that to be far the most interesting part of the paper. It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

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Oh and on the casual sex thing, I wasn't judging anyone here or anyone who has different morals than I do. I think peoples morals evolve one way or the other over their lifespan, and know a lot of people who come to deeply regret things they've done sexually, because looking back they realize it's affected things such as intimacy and connection with their spouse. But ultimately it's just important that both partners are on the same page about that stuff. I hope I didn't come off as being mean. And I in no way think sex is an immoral act or reserved only for procreation. Again, just important to be in agreement with your partner so nobody gets hurt.
Ditto! Being on the same page is more important than what that page really is. Like I said, I wasn't exactly a shining paragon of virginity when I met my husband.

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#87 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 03:59 PM
 
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If I enter a really late taken temp into FF, will it automatically discard it? Because otherwise my chart's gonna be messed up I think.
FF should automatically ignore it. It should show up as an open circle on your chart.

BFS ~ I think I read about that stuff in college more than 10 years ago. I don't have references or links anymore.

I didn't think anyone on here was being judgmental.

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#88 of 321 Old 11-07-2009, 05:37 PM
 
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Hi ladies! I am a old member who hasn't posted in a very long time! I am seriously considering CTA and condoms instead of going on the pill. I've read TCOYF and I need to pull out my thermometer that I bought 6 years ago and never used. Interestingly, I just did a quiz on the Planned Parenthood website and it suggested FAM. I have been really torn, so I am taking that as a sign. I just need to start reading on FF and here, and talk to my dp about it.

I had the Mirena for the past five years, and two kids before that so I haven't had to think about bc for awhile! I got the mirena out Oct.12.

I feel like I have a brand new body that I know nothing about now. I had what I guessed was AF the days after mirena left. then nothing. Then spotting. Then another short AF. Then more spotting/discharge. I have no clue what my body thinks it is doing.


Now I haven't seen blood since last Sunday, some other discharge this week but not EWCM I don't think. So I'm hoping things will get into a good cycle soon and I will post my chart.

Tina
Mom to two boys, 2002 and 2004 and a bouncing baby due in June, 2012!    autismribbon.gif               jumpers.gif

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#89 of 321 Old 11-08-2009, 01:01 AM
 
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ba bum bum bum
another one bites the dust


Wahoo, that's three cycles charted since DS, and the first that I made it through without freaking out

My Ovulation Chart

P.S. on the BCP issue -- I have to say that my DH smells better than any other guy I know. Maybe that means we're a good genetic match?

*BETH* My FF Chart: 28389c
a no-vax, organic, Catholic mother of DD (5) and DS (2)flowersforyou.gif

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#90 of 321 Old 11-08-2009, 12:37 PM
 
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So the temperature weirdness continues.

Ds came it at 6:30 and woke me up, I told him to go away until 7 but I took my temp. It was 97.5. Then I woke at 7:07 and took my temp again just to see what it would be and it was 97.8. Then dh and I laid in bed until 7:22 and I took it again and it was 96.8. WTH? For all those temps I was just laying there, hadn't been moving around except maybe to roll over and doze back off.

So for the first time in 2 years I am completely confused on my cycle. I did have ewcm but I've been known to have patches of it before and not ovulate until much later. So it pretty much tells me nothing. My breasts aren't hurting like they usually do post-o but I also hardly have any symptoms when I ovulate this early (it would be cd 16 if I use my higher temps I've been getting, I usually ovulate between cd30-40).

I guess at this point I'm just hoping to see more ewcm and then I'll know I'm still pre-o.

Rachel, mom to Jake (5/04) and Alexia (7/07) a surprise UC thanks to hypnobabies!
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