Charting to Avoid, December 2009 - Page 11 - Mothering Forums

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#301 of 476 Old 12-18-2009, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'll add people over the weekend.

And I'm strongly considering changing the name of this thread to "FAM/NFP Month Year" What do you all think? I think it is a more accurate statement, and more inclusive?

AFM: CD 4, AF is being very nice me. Though I did see an advertisement for that Seasonal BC Pill, or whatever it is called, when only get AF 4x/year. Anyway, the clip said "who says you need to get your period 12 times a year on the Pill?" And I thought HA!!! I get my period less OFF the Pill than I did ON the pill!

MW: I've never heard of that Infertility Cure. I've considered accupuncture, though, and more guided herbs. Right now I'm still trying to heal with food before supplements. And I'm refusing to admit that my problems go so far as to be termed infertility...I guess it is, but since we're not actually TTC, I can ignore that for a bit longer!

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#302 of 476 Old 12-18-2009, 08:38 PM
 
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annie ~ That 97.4 temp was not shaved. It's under your CL. A shaved temp would be one of the 6 pre-O temp just before O that's above the CL but being ignored because it's higher than the others. My issue is trying to determine when it's safe to shave a temp or use the ROT and when it's not. It seems FF does it a lot and puts CLs lower than they should be, thereby indicating O before it may have happened. I'm not comfortable with that. I prefer to go with a later O day even if it's wrong because I think that's safer whether TTC or TTA.

WWC ~ I didn't mean to imply you have infertility. That's just what the book is called. From what I read, it sounds like it has a lot of good info for anyone who's hormones are off and cycles are wacky. It gives very specific supplements to take depending on your situation.

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#303 of 476 Old 12-18-2009, 09:29 PM
 
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I've never heard of an early transvag u/s causing miscarriage. I HAVE seen information that would lead me to believe it's possible, but I don't know that any studies have been done. Try reading this ..

http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articl...oundwagner.asp



So now that I have the "no baby, ever" verdict from DH, I'm getting copious CF. It's only creamy, but I'm getting tons, more in line with what I used to get and I'm very obviously gearing up to O.

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/299dd4

We'd agreed to start TTC and played a little fast and loose with condom usage and started DS a month before our TTC date. So now I wonder if we'd waited another month DH wouldn't have found a reason to put off TTC. I feel completely blindsided about all of this. I've always known that I was more interested in having a baby than DH was, but if he didn't want kids, he should have TOLD me that before we got married. Isn't that something you would tell your partner??

So two days ago I asked him why he said TTC in January and he said that he'd agreed to March. There's no possibly way, given the conversation, that he'd said January but meant March. And then he got mad when I insisted he'd said January. Then it was basically how he rarely feels very strongly about something but when he does and conflicts with what I want, I just ride right over him. Implying that I don't feel strong about having another child? Or by virtue of his abdicating the choice of which restaurant to eat at, he should be the one to choose whether or not to have another child? Oh, and I'm selfish and inconsiderate. Let's not forget that.

I'm sorry I'm just going on now. I'm just so mad and depressed and knowing that I'm very fertile the next few days is just making me more mad and depressed. I don't know how one gets over wanting something with all their heart.

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#304 of 476 Old 12-18-2009, 10:54 PM
 
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Thanks for that article, Eresh. I vaguely remembering reading a scientific study about the effects of ultrasound on neurons. I don't remember the details but I do remember the results being that it had some sort of negative effects. Maybe the ultrasound waves overexcited the cells or something like that. The article did say that you could not really extrapolate that to saying that it could cause harm to a fetus but that was the implication.

Ok, everyone, I'm taking bets on whether or not I Oed yesterday. Anyone in? I say that I did.

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#305 of 476 Old 12-18-2009, 11:15 PM
 
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annie ~ That 97.4 temp was not shaved. It's under your CL. A shaved temp would be one of the 6 pre-O temp just before O that's above the CL but being ignored because it's higher than the others. My issue is trying to determine when it's safe to shave a temp or use the ROT and when it's not. It seems FF does it a lot and puts CLs lower than they should be, thereby indicating O before it may have happened. I'm not comfortable with that. I prefer to go with a later O day even if it's wrong because I think that's safer whether TTC or TTA.
Well, that is what I get for trying to pretend like I know what I am talking about At least now I know what a shaved temp is

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#306 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 02:12 AM
 
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So two days ago I asked him why he said TTC in January and he said that he'd agreed to March. There's no possibly way, given the conversation, that he'd said January but meant March. And then he got mad when I insisted he'd said January. Then it was basically how he rarely feels very strongly about something but when he does and conflicts with what I want, I just ride right over him. Implying that I don't feel strong about having another child? Or by virtue of his abdicating the choice of which restaurant to eat at, he should be the one to choose whether or not to have another child? Oh, and I'm selfish and inconsiderate. Let's not forget that.

I'm sorry I'm just going on now. I'm just so mad and depressed and knowing that I'm very fertile the next few days is just making me more mad and depressed. I don't know how one gets over wanting something with all their heart.
I've had this convo with DH many times. I think it goes back to men just innately not being able to understand how deep the *need* for children runs. Like you said, it's unfair for the one who doesn't want the children to be the one that holds the cards. I know for us, I've wanted children since DH and I got together, but I had a miscarriage 4 years ago that hit me hard and made the baby fever worse, especially since there are two other little girls in our life that are exactly the same age ours would have been, and since then it's been this all consuming ever present topic of conversation in my head. We've been married for almost two years now and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't slightly angry that I haven't been given the 'ok' to go ahead and ttc yet. I feel like I've waited four years-- should that be my compromise!? I'm not actually angry about it (right now...), but I just want you to know that you're definately not alone.


As for changing the name of the thread- I would be ok with that! While we're TTA right now, hopefully over the next few months that will change, and by then I'll be very attached to this thread and won't want to leave!

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#307 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 10:00 AM
 
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I think at least part of the reason men don't understand the drive women have to have babies is because they are, essentially, unencumbered in that area. They don't have to do any work to get someone pg or have a baby. I don't mean that in terms of them not having to take care of their children. I mean that men can, theoretically, have an infinite amount of children at any given time over their entire lifetimes. They are only limited by the # of sex partners they have. Women, on the other hand, usually can only have one child every few years and only for a limited time. There is a strong biological drive to optimize the production of offspring so it's very difficult for women to wait, especially when every day that passes mean their fertility is decreasing.

I don't know how I feel about changing the name of the thread. I guess if no one who's active objects, it's ok. If anyone wants a very strict CTA thread, they can always start one. I like being able to ask questions and discuss charts and charting no matter why I'm doing it. I also like to analyze other people's charts.

AFM, I definitely Oed now. My temp went up even higher this am. The only thing that stinks about that is that, if I get , it will be right before our romantic weekend. That's what I get for trying to plan around my cycles.

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#308 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 10:29 AM
 
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I think at least part of the reason men don't understand the drive women have to have babies is because they are, essentially, unencumbered in that area. They don't have to do any work to get someone pg or have a baby. I don't mean that in terms of them not having to take care of their children. I mean that men can, theoretically, have an infinite amount of children at any given time over their entire lifetimes. They are only limited by the # of sex partners they have. Women, on the other hand, usually can only have one child every few years and only for a limited time. There is a strong biological drive to optimize the production of offspring so it's very difficult for women to wait, especially when every day that passes mean their fertility is decreasing.
Yup... it's all biology. Ok, not ALL, but our "animal brain" is a lot more powerful than most people want to admit. As someone who has struggled with weight, I've also felt that biological mandate to eat all the sugar and carbs I can get my hands on to prepare for the winter food shortage. I wonder what the plummeting birth rate in some countries says about the biological mandate to create offspring as our environment becomes more crowded and resources more scarce. I'm sure lots of people smarter than myself have written about that too

And men are biologically driven to make children as well -- they are driven to have sex. It's only recently that BC has decoupled the act of sex from necessarily creating a baby.

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I don't know how I feel about changing the name of the thread. I guess if no one who's active objects, it's ok. If anyone wants a very strict CTA thread, they can always start one. I like being able to ask questions and discuss charts and charting no matter why I'm doing it. I also like to analyze other people's charts.
I would be fine either way. I am charting to avoid right now, even if it is not according to my wishes, so the existing thread title does describe me, however I view the primary purpose of the thread as learning about charting, fertility signs, and all of that.

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AFM, I definitely Oed now. My temp went up even higher this am. The only thing that stinks about that is that, if I get , it will be right before our romantic weekend. That's what I get for trying to plan around my cycles.
D'oh!

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#309 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 10:42 AM
 
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Eresh- I'm sorry dh is being so difficult. I think as women who will have to carry and take care of the child it is SO much a bigger deal, and we think about it all.the.time and they just don't. I had a similar experience recently and I about killed someone. They can be so flippant about it.

AFM, should come today or tomorrow. My temp has been dropping for three days now, seems like a prolonged dropping for some reason. my chart

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#310 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 11:46 AM
 
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CD 1?!? WTH? Probably the first time in 2 years that I was caught off-guard. Was NOT expecting AF for another 2-3 days.

My chart: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1f0436

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#311 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 12:18 PM
 
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Annie ~ Hm...that seems strange. From what you've got on your chart, I think the only way your O day might be off is that it could've been cd16 instead of cd15. That makes your lp even shorter, though.

I'm going to use your chart as an example of shaving temps or using the ROT to disregard temps when setting the CL and confirming O. I think it's a good example of what I was saying FF does that I think is risky and you all can tell me what you think.

(annie ~ The cd9 and 13 temps above the CL are good examples of shaved temps to confirm O.)

As I said, FF has ignored those 2 high temps in order to confirm O. The chart definitely shows that O on cd15 is a possibility but I don't see how it's an obvious interpretation. Disregarding 2 temps makes it even more risky or inaccurate, imo. CD16 looks like a more obvious and safer O day to me. So, does anyone disagree with me? If so, can you explain how that's obvious and makes it safe to shave those temps?

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#312 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 12:30 PM
 
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Eresh- I'm sorry dh is being so difficult. I think as women who will have to carry and take care of the child it is SO much a bigger deal, and we think about it all.the.time and they just don't. I had a similar experience recently and I about killed someone. They can be so flippant about it.
Oh, I wasn't saying men are as biologically invested in having a child as women are, only that they are biologically invested in the act of making babies -- which, because of birth control, is no longer actually the act of making babies. Does that make sense?

So I'm obviously not going to O on CD 14 like I have for the last few cycles. Just when I think I'm going back to clockwork cycles... And my temps are being very consistent since I switched to vaginal temping so that's nice at least. The temps are actually different at the second decimal place but they're all rounding to 97.8 or 97.9.

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/299dd4

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#313 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 12:56 PM
 
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I'm going to use your chart as an example of shaving temps or using the ROT to disregard temps when setting the CL and confirming O. I think it's a good example of what I was saying FF does that I think is risky and you all can tell me what you think.
I would not shave those temps. I'd put O on CD 16. Annie, I don't know what going on...is it definitely AF & not spotting?

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#314 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 01:10 PM
 
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Gotcha about the shaved temps - that is why I am glad I found you ladies. I would have NO idea what to think if I had a chart like that!!!

soooooooooooo.....................ummmmmmmmmm..... ............. no

I woke up this morning (at like 4:30 ) and POAS using FMU and a cleeeeaaaaaarrrrr BFN. I mean, not even a hint of the test line! So, I am HOPING I am not pregnant.......I have never tried testing this early, but when I did test with my others two, I got a dark line RIGHT away, but looking back I was probably a few weeks late.

Anyways, I know that even a 16 day LP falls in the normal range, and that I will probably get my AF soon, but does anyone have any info on a longer than 16 day LP?

I tried to google it and couldn't find much.

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#315 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 01:15 PM
 
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I would not shave those temps. I'd put O on CD 16. Annie, I don't know what going on...is it definitely AF & not spotting?
It's very strange. Usually I have a few days of dark brown spotting before things really get going. I have had NOTHING over the past couple of days except for very creamy CF. So then this morning, I had bright red. TMI warning: it was after a BM. But my temp is dropping so I am going to assume it's AF. I guess if it doesn't continue throughout the day then maybe I should change it back to spotting? I've been pretty lax about taking my thyroid medicine so I thought that my cycle might be a little mixed up but a 9-10 day LP when I have been at 12-13 days? Ugh.

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#316 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 01:18 PM
 
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Annie ~ Hm...that seems strange. From what you've got on your chart, I think the only way your O day might be off is that it could've been cd16 instead of cd15. That makes your lp even shorter, though.

I'm going to use your chart as an example of shaving temps or using the ROT to disregard temps when setting the CL and confirming O. I think it's a good example of what I was saying FF does that I think is risky and you all can tell me what you think.

(annie ~ The cd9 and 13 temps above the CL are good examples of shaved temps to confirm O.)

As I said, FF has ignored those 2 high temps in order to confirm O. The chart definitely shows that O on cd15 is a possibility but I don't see how it's an obvious interpretation. Disregarding 2 temps makes it even more risky or inaccurate, imo. CD16 looks like a more obvious and safer O day to me. So, does anyone disagree with me? If so, can you explain how that's obvious and makes it safe to shave those temps?
I don't think shaving those temps is safe AT ALL. There was nothing different about my temping those days. The only thing that could make it o.k. to shave those temps or do ROT is because I'm not convinced that my thermometer is entirely accurate. So who knows?

My chart: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1f0436

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#317 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 01:46 PM
 
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K, so I'm not off in thinking FF is being screwy with Annie's chart. I saw that so much when I was TTC and it drove me crazy. So many women would stop BD because FF said they Oed when it wasn't really clear and then wonder and cry month after month when they weren't pg. I tried to tell them not to rely on FF but they wouldn't listen to me. Oh well.

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does anyone have any info on a longer than 16 day LP?
Sometimes women get what are called functional cysts that cause their BBT to stay up and lp to be much longer than usual. I had one once that caused my lp to be 18 days when it was usually only 12. Basically, all it is is when the corpus luteum cyst doesn't disintegrate when it normally would and continues to pump out progesterone. They usually resolve on their own but can take several weeks. I don't know if there's any risk of them bursting and if that might cause any problems. There's one other thing. It's some sort of disorder or disease. I can't remember the name of it right now. Oh, maybe LUFTS or something like that.

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#318 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 01:48 PM
 
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So I just did an internal check and there is no red anymore. Just creamy mixed with a little light brown. So should I change it to spotting on FF?

My chart: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1f0436

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#319 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 01:57 PM
 
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this morning, I had bright red. TMI warning: it was after a BM.
Big WARNING: Embarassing question coming. You do not have to answer on here.

Are you sure the blood wasn't from the BM?

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#320 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 02:10 PM
 
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Big WARNING: Embarassing question coming. You do not have to answer on here.

Are you sure the blood wasn't from the BM?
HAHAHA! No worries! No, it was definitely coming from my vaginal area! I thought that at first too though because I was totally NOT expecting to see AF so soon. But as I mentioned above, I just checked internally and no sign of bright red. Only creamy CF with light brown mixed in.

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#321 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 05:58 PM
 
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Just checking in to say happy holidays and good luck to everyone! Hoping for no new pregnancies except for those who want them (hi MW ) while I'm gone. I'm going to try to stay away from the computer while I'm on Christmas vacation so I should be back and about ready to O around the 30th. See you then!


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#322 of 476 Old 12-19-2009, 09:53 PM
 
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Well, I have had zero spotting or bleeding for the rest of today so I moved it from "light" to "spotting" on FF. We'll see what happens tomorrow morning.

My chart: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1f0436

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#323 of 476 Old 12-20-2009, 12:37 PM
 
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Well, I have had zero spotting or bleeding for the rest of today so I moved it from "light" to "spotting" on FF. We'll see what happens tomorrow morning.

My chart: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1f0436
I was going to say that if it doesn't turn into actual flow, record it as spotting. Do you usually start spotting this soon?

I got confirmed O today.

my chart

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#324 of 476 Old 12-20-2009, 01:02 PM
 
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MW: for O!!!! Excellent timing BTW!

AFM: Yes, I usually start spotting this early. I typically will have 2-3 days of spotting before actual flow starts. I'm sure this has to do with my thyroid. Still creamy mixed with light brown today.

My chart: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1f0436

Annie wife v2.0 to DH and joyfully parenting DSS 18 jog.gif, DSD 15 knit.gif, DSD 14 banana.gif, DSS 12bikenew.gifand heart hero DD 2superhero.gif. angel1.gif 8/2010

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#325 of 476 Old 12-20-2009, 02:29 PM
 
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MW: for O!!!! Excellent timing BTW!
Thanks. I was going to say that I think it's pretty good but then it sounds too much like TTC. I searched the FF chart gallery for pg charts with my BD timing for either girls or boys. There weren't many. I don't think I mentioned that I was doing a very slight girl sway jic. It really wasn't anything compared to what others do. Anyway, the same BD timing as me seems to be pretty even between girls and boys. I think it was 44% girl and 56% boy but there were only 25 charts total.

I'm definitely sick now. I feel hot, like I have a fever but my temp is low, 97.7, so I don't think that could be the reason for my high temps instead of O.

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AFM: Yes, I usually start spotting this early. I typically will have 2-3 days of spotting before actual flow starts. I'm sure this has to do with my thyroid. Still creamy mixed with light brown today.

My chart: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1f0436
Ok. I keep forgetting you have thyroid issues. I don't think 2-3 days of spotting is bad. I'm sure TCOYF says 2 days of spotting is fine. 3 days might be not good but, if you know the reason, it's not a problem, right?

knit.gifSAHM to 3 boys and 1 man; 22 jammin.gif, 9REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, 5 FIREdevil.gifand now 1 year oldtoddler.gif!

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#326 of 476 Old 12-20-2009, 03:32 PM
 
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Yay MW!!! Good luck

AFM - HOLLLLLY LONNNNNNG LUTEAL PHASE!!!!!! Finally I got a temp drop this morning but still no spotting.

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/26af7e

So, between the negative tests and the temp drop - I'm pretty sure I'm not knocked up
Ugh, I have a headache! I have spent that last two days looking up how possible it is to be pregnant with a negative test at 15dpo.............yeah, I know - I have a problem

caffix.gif wife and forever in love with J jammin.gif  - Mom to 4 girls K blahblah.gif '01' J energy.gif '06' M bouncy.gif '08' &  A drool.gif '11'  nocirc.gif  saynovax.gif

 
 

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#327 of 476 Old 12-20-2009, 03:45 PM
 
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I have spent that last two days looking up how possible it is to be pregnant with a negative test at 15dpo.............yeah, I know - I have a problem
It can happen. I have a friend who has a 15 day lp. It used to drive me crazy when we were ttc together. I hated waiting so long for her to test. She was much stronger than me and would hold out until the end.

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#328 of 476 Old 12-20-2009, 05:41 PM
 
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REALLY TTC here, too. Although i do get a kick out of our pretenders --- I secretly look forward to the excitement of one of us getting preggers, tho of course I hope it's the ones that want it.

So I think I ed -- what do you think? Am I in the clear for a Christmas "honeymoon"? It's kind of funny since our first Christmas married we had charted that Christmas would be a "green light". . . except it didn't end up mattering, as we'd already conceived our DD . . .

PS -- annie congrats on the temp drop -- did AF arrive yet? Looks like sometime today!

Ooops, this would help -- My Ovulation Chart

*BETH* mother of DD (8) and DS (6) along with 2 dogs, 2 cats and about 100 chickens
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#329 of 476 Old 12-20-2009, 06:44 PM
 
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REALLY TTC here, too.
Oh NO! take it back, take it back!!!!!!!!


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It can happen. I have a friend who has a 15 day lp. It used to drive me crazy when we were ttc together. I hated waiting so long for her to test. She was much stronger than me and would hold out until the end.
That's what was making me CRAZY! I wanted my luteal phase to be long, otherwise it would mean I was pregnant................but if my luteal phase was long, that would mean it was a higher chance for a false negative!!!! grrrrrrr. (I honestly think if I would have been pregnant it would have been positive with a FRER and FMU)



CD1 CD1 CD1 CD1 CD1

wow - I need a break............

caffix.gif wife and forever in love with J jammin.gif  - Mom to 4 girls K blahblah.gif '01' J energy.gif '06' M bouncy.gif '08' &  A drool.gif '11'  nocirc.gif  saynovax.gif

 
 

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#330 of 476 Old 12-20-2009, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MW: Fingers crossed for you!!!

Annie2186: Your LP looks exactly like mine did the cycle before last...this last time, I just had a 10 day LP

RaraAvis: I'd say that looks good to me!

AFM: CD 6 for me. My temp jumped from 96.6 to 97.3! Craziness of AF temping, though I'm just brown spotting today. I also have been feeling stuffed up, so I think I might have slept with my mouth open last night...does that cause temps to go up or down?

And how about we rename the thread "CTA/FAM Month Year" and I'll put a little intro blurb about how we're all at different places in our charting and fertilty journeys, happy to have anyone join, etc? What do you think? I agree that the thread is mainly for CTA purposes, and I want to make that clear, but for those who are more on the fence, well, I'd like to have a place for them, too?

Emily--Married to the love of my life 2008--Joyful mommy to Rachel Elizabeth 12/10
PM me about low supply; insufficient glandular tissue; posterior tongue tie; lip tie bfinfant.gif
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