Charting to Avoid, December 2009 - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-30-2009, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome to the December 2009 charting to avoid thread. If you would like to be added or removed (or have anything changed) from the roll call list, please let me know by PMing me. PM me if you'd like to start next month's thread.

Here's a link to last month's November thread. http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1156394

If you did not post in November, you may have been deleted from the list. If you were mistakenly deleted, or you would like to be added/removed, please PM me and let me know. I cannot promise to make changes requested in the thread, but I will try to get to everything.

Due to the craziness of December for most people, I will not delete anyone from the "current" list who does not post this month; this month's current list will carry over into January, in other words.


*Charting/Using FAM/NFP to AVOID*

who we are:

Ajbaby - since 8/09
Angelique
AnnieA - since 12/07
annie2186
annettemarie
BarefootScientist - since 08/08 and 12 cycles in '05-'06
bbrandonsmom
Belle - CTA since 11/09
bicyclingbethany - since 7/06
blueone
claddaghmom
clark - since 10/09
eirual - CTA for 2.5 years
elonwy - since 8/09
Eresh - since 8/09
GriffsKat - since 4/09
HulaJenn – since 4/09
JenineJessica - since 12/09
JoyFilled
laurelg - since 10/09, plus 16 months before
lyterae - since 11/09, plus 5 months before
MamaGwynn - since 11/09
MarineWife – CTA for 10 months, now CFS&G
Marlet - since 12/09, plus 6 months before
momtokimari
motray36 - charting since 10/04
MovingMomma - since 02/09 + some time before
NaturalMindedMomma -
Nazsmum
nichole
RaraAvis - CTA since 8/09 plus 13 months before
Smylingeyz - CTA since 06/08
toolip - CTA since 12/09
tinams8 - CTA since 11/09
turnquia - CTA since 11/09
whitekole
wholewheatchick - since 05/09


Pregnancies per Month (due to user error or condom failure unless otherwise noted)
February - at least 1
March - 2
April – 2
May – 2
June – 0
July - 0
August - 0
September - 1
October - 0
November - 0

Happy charting!


Summary of FAM rules (sympto-thermal)

Pre-ovulation rules:

1) First 5 Days Rule: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had an obvious temp shift 12-16 days before.

2) Dry day rule: You are safe to DTD after 6PM if you have been dry all day.


Post ovulation rules:

1) Peak day rule: the last day of fertile mucous is called the peak day (the day before your mucous begins to dry up). You are safe to DTD on the fourth consecutive day after the peak day. If another patch of more fertile mucous appears, start your count over.

2) Temperature shift rule: You are safe the evening of the third consecutive day your temp is above your coverline. If your temp falls at or below the coverline during the 3 day count, begin your count again.

BOTH rules must be satisfied to be considered in your infertile phase.


How to set a coverline:

When you see a temperature shift of at least 0.2 degrees F above the highest of the previous 6 temps, draw a line 0.1 degrees F above that highest temp.


Resources

Books:
Taking Charge of Your Fertility, by Toni Weschler (revised ed)
Garden of Fertility and Honoring Our Cycles workbook, by Katie Singer
The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Sheila Kippley
Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing: How Ecological Breastfeeding Spaces Babies by Sheila Kippley
Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon (4th ed)


Websites:
Ovusoft charting software, and brief fertility library
Fertility Friend charting software, and ttc charting guide
Author Katie Singer's Garden of Fertility website
Billings Ovulation Method info
Billings Ovulation Method Association, USA
Billings Centre, CA
Couple to Couple League (find an NFP instructor)
Creighton Model



Abbreviations:
AF: Aunt Flo, your period
AFM: as for me
BFP: what we are trying to avoid, a positive pregnancy test
CD: Cycle day
CM: cervical mucous (same as CF)
CF: cervical fluid (same as CM)
DPO: Days past ovulation
DTD: Do the deed
GIO: get it on
EWCM: eggwhite cervical mucous/fluid
LP: Luteal phase - the time from ovulation until your period, average 10-16 days
LTL: low temp level (basically 1/10th below FAM's CL or on the highest of the 6 previous temps)
HTL: high temp level (4/10ths above LTL, temp rise needed to indicate O)

Emily--Married to the love of my life 2008--Joyful mommy to Rachel Elizabeth 12/10
PM me about low supply; insufficient glandular tissue; posterior tongue tie; lip tie bfinfant.gif
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wanted to put this up so it is ready to go for tomorrow.

The only change I have made is that if you don't post this month, I'll still keep you on the "current" list through Dec. and Jan. If you don't post in Jan, though, you won't be on the current list at the start of Feb. I figure that the month of December tends to be really crazy for most people, so I'd give us all a bit of a break.

Emily--Married to the love of my life 2008--Joyful mommy to Rachel Elizabeth 12/10
PM me about low supply; insufficient glandular tissue; posterior tongue tie; lip tie bfinfant.gif
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:54 PM
 
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Hey Ladies!

I need your help - I found my thermometor!!! yay! So I am personally thinking I have not yet ovulated..........I have two new temps. (of course I know I can't tell FORSURE unless I get six temps and THEN ovulate, just kind of wondering if I can get your professional opinions )

Quote:
my chart
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/26af7e

My second question is this; why the HELL have I had creamy/wet for over two weeks now?????? This is NOT normal for me. Do you think it is because I am still BF so much and/or my yeast infection? (the days that are blank were when I had a yeast infection)

Anyways, thanks for your help!

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Old 11-30-2009, 02:55 PM
 
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ha ha ha - I was trying to make it a hyper link where it just said "my chart" and you could click on it! Apparently I can't figure it out

caffix.gif wife and forever in love with J jammin.gif  - Mom to 4 girls K blahblah.gif '01' J energy.gif '06' M bouncy.gif '08' &  A drool.gif '11'  nocirc.gif  saynovax.gif

 
 

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Old 11-30-2009, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Annie2186: I would vote with no O yet. And yes, BFing can have a huge impact on your CF patterns, because your body is trying so hard to ovulate...but can't quite come up with enough hormones to do so! Although I'm not BFing, my body is kind in the same rut...my CF says that I am "fertile" for sometimes 3 to 5 weeks before I actually O. Right now I'm on day 8 of super fertile, EWCF, and it's CD 37 Glad you found your thermometer!

Emily--Married to the love of my life 2008--Joyful mommy to Rachel Elizabeth 12/10
PM me about low supply; insufficient glandular tissue; posterior tongue tie; lip tie bfinfant.gif
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:00 PM
 
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I think I finally may have ovulated. Not sure when, I didn't temp thurs and fri of last week. But I'm pretty sure I have. I hope so. This has been a long cycle. I'll post my chart tomorrow.

Kathryn, Wife to Andrew, Mama to Nadia (5) and Rhys (2)
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:58 PM
 
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annie ~ i vote no on O, too. WWC answered the cf question.

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Old 11-30-2009, 11:15 PM
 
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:01 AM
 
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Just popping in to say hi, subbing, and thanks for the new thread!

annie, I don't have a vote yet, hopefully you'll catch the shift.

Here is my chart. Ready to O anytime. The BD listed on cd 12 we used a condom but had another slippage incident geez what are we, teenagers? But I don't think it's anything to worry about, especially if I hold off on O'ing for a few more days - and I usually do. My earliest temp shift has been about CD 18.

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Old 12-01-2009, 12:56 PM
 
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turnquia ~ You can't set a CL yet. You don't have enough temps. A lot of times temps are unusually high and aren't good for helping to set the CL. Also, you only need the previous 6 temps before the initial temp rise. For example, if you O on cd14, the only temps that will matter are cd9-14. Any temps before that are of no consequence whatsoever.

BFS ~ Looking good.

AFM, I'm just waiting for . I want to go to the gym but she hasn't started yet so I don't know what to do. used to start for me first thing in the morning so I'm not sure what to expect. Will she come later today or not until tomorrow? Maybe my lp is getting longer.

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Old 12-01-2009, 02:24 PM
 
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Oh I knew what you meant about coverline I just meant I can already see the difference in the high from AF and then the big drop and lows from cycle starting up.

LOL i'm thinking DH and I are majorly going to be flunkies. We cannot use condoms (latex allergy) last year I had an anaphylactic allergy to fenugreek and found out at the same time I have many other allergies, many of them very new. Since then I"m petrified of things I've never had before... so we don't want to use synthetic condoms either.

LOL I forgot how much more I'm wanting to dtd too when not on birth control of any form. Haha and its not like my DH is going to say no...

I'm hopeing to avoid but honestly I will not be at all surprised if we flunk. (If we flunk my numbers shouldn't count against your statistics here )

ROFL so I'm going to need all your help telling me when to avoid this cycle. (which its my first so I'm not safe ever right? except post O?)

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Old 12-01-2009, 02:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by turnquia View Post
ROFL so I'm going to need all your help telling me when to avoid this cycle. (which its my first so I'm not safe ever right? except post O?)
Yep, for your first cycle I would definitely recommend not considering yourself safe at all until you get a very clear confirmed thermal shift of 3-4 days. We can help you determine when that happens too. In future cycles once you get the hang of it, there are many different rules you can use to determine the beginning of the fertile phase. The most liberal and commonly used I think is the dry day rule - so as soon as you get any cervical fluid, you have to consider yourself fertile.

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Old 12-01-2009, 06:36 PM
 
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Yep, for your first cycle I would definitely recommend not considering yourself safe at all until you get a very clear confirmed thermal shift of 3-4 days. We can help you determine when that happens too. In future cycles once you get the hang of it, there are many different rules you can use to determine the beginning of the fertile phase. The most liberal and commonly used I think is the dry day rule - so as soon as you get any cervical fluid, you have to consider yourself fertile.
Uh yeah we're doing the dry day rule now... lol I told you I think I might flunk out already... I guess time will tell

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Old 12-01-2009, 07:00 PM
 
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Here is my promised chart. What do you think? I'm thinking I did. I feel like I did, I'm all moody and I lost my ovulation bloating and swelling.

What do you think?

Kathryn, Wife to Andrew, Mama to Nadia (5) and Rhys (2)
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:34 PM
 
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Here is my promised chart. What do you think? I'm thinking I did. I feel like I did, I'm all moody and I lost my ovulation bloating and swelling.

What do you think?
It won't let me look..............not that I would really be able to give a great answer, but still

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Old 12-01-2009, 07:51 PM
 
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Oh I knew what you meant about coverline I just meant I can already see the difference in the high from AF and then the big drop and lows from cycle starting up.
Ah, gotcha.

Quote:
LOL i'm thinking DH and I are majorly going to be flunkies. We cannot use condoms (latex allergy) last year I had an anaphylactic allergy to fenugreek and found out at the same time I have many other allergies, many of them very new. Since then I"m petrified of things I've never had before... so we don't want to use synthetic condoms either.
Have you looked into withdrawal? It's only slightly less effective than condoms when done properly.

I'm still waiting for . I guess she's not coming until tomorrow. I know it's normal for the lp to vary up to 2 days but...If for years my lp was always 12 days except a few random times when it was longer (not counting cycles returning PP when my lp is wacky), do you think having 2 back to back cycles with a 13 day lp means my lp is going to be longer? Does that happen that the lp length can change permanently?

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Old 12-01-2009, 09:09 PM
 
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It won't let me look..............not that I would really be able to give a great answer, but still

Poop.

I think I fixed it. Try again?

Kathryn, Wife to Andrew, Mama to Nadia (5) and Rhys (2)
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:22 PM
 
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Looks possible, Griffs. I think it's a little iffy with FAM because you have 2 temps discarded within the 6 temp window. I think according to TAoNFP, you'd be in the clear even with your cd34 temp left in, though.

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Old 12-01-2009, 10:21 PM
 
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I'm also expecting tomorrow, maybe the day after. My cycles are still normalizing, I think, though on this one I O'd on CD 14, same as last time. We'll see if my luteal phase is 11 days again.

So does your luteal phase length sometimes change after having a baby or does it usually stay the same? has definitely changed for me. I'm so, so happy to have 1 heavy day an a few light days instead of 4-5 heavy days and a couple of light days. And the cramping is not nearly as bad

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Old 12-01-2009, 10:55 PM
 
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My Chart

Dude, I am so proud of myself for figuring that out... I think!

I am still not quite normal after having my Mirena IUD out on Oct. 12. I started temping a few weeks ago, towards what ended up being the end of last cycle and my temps seemed good and high, and dropped right before AF. But then Af came, went away, came right back, and ended up being 9 days long.

Anyway, now my temps are lower but kind of jumpy looking. Hopefully this will turn out to be a normal month. I pinned both charts together on my home page, so you can sort of see the end of last cycle and the beginning of this cycle together look kind of normal, right?

I am not officially joining because right now we are not doing an awesome job of preventing and I don't want to throw off the stats. But last night I issued a complaint and starting tonight the condoms are going on!

Happy December to everyone.

Tina
Mom to two boys, 2002 and 2004 and a bouncing baby due in June, 2012!    autismribbon.gif               jumpers.gif

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Old 12-01-2009, 11:19 PM
 
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tinams8: For whatever it's worth, I had my Mirena out on Aug 25 and I've only really normalized in the last month or so. I started charting right after I got the Mirena out and all my charts are shared here.

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Old 12-01-2009, 11:43 PM
 
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I've never read anything about lps changing after having a baby. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I can see how cycles in general might change. Mine seem to have. I noticed that tomorrow is the full moon. I find it interesting that my seems to want to come as close to the full moon as possible. Last cycle it was a day later than I expected and came 2 days before the full moon. This time, assuming it comes tomorrow, it will be right on the full moon.

I don't bother temping during . One, because my cycles are usually so long that temps are irrelevant. Two, because they can be erratic and make my chart look wacky. Recently, it seems my pattern is to have higher, more erratic temps until about a week or so before O. Then they drop some and level out a bit. They go back to jumping all over the place during my lp, I think.

I'm getting excited about my dh coming home. In a few weeks you'll probably have to excuse me for not being on the TTA wagon. I hope you all won't mind if I hang around since we won't really be TTC, either (as far as I know).

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Old 12-02-2009, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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MW: If I'm still here, then you for sure get to still be here!

AFM: CD 39, previous 9 days are either W or EWCF. ARGH!!!! No ovulation at all. I'm going to the dr. today for a normal check up, but I am going to insist on a blood draw and a full thyroid panel check. Just to see. Also might make sure that I darken the "night lighting" in the bedroom, and order some Optivite vitamins. I'm getting soooooo sick of these hideous, confusing, epic-length cycles! http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/277407

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Old 12-02-2009, 12:58 PM
 
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WWC ~ I have to say that your charts look like classic PCOS charts to me; long, irregular with lots of ewcf. That might be something to ask your doc about. It can get in the way of getting pg but also may be so be easily rectified. It can be important for your overall health whether ttc or not because it can lead to diabetes, heart disease and other health problems. Contrary to the name, you do not have to have cysts on your ovaries to have PCOS. Back in the day when it was first described it was thought that the cysts caused the syndrome. Now it's believed that hormone imbalances, most likely insulin, cause the problem and cysts are one of the possible symptoms. You can go to Soulcysters to find out more. I think they have an online questionnaire you can take to find out how likely you are to have PCOS. There are a lot of symptoms but you only need a minimum of 2-3 to be diagnosed.

AFM, yet again FF says that I may be pregnant because I'm past my usual lp length. I feel crampy and achy this morning but still no . This is really annoying me because I'm afraid to go to the gym. I did go Monday and Tuesday but I wasn't crampy and achy like today.

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Old 12-02-2009, 02:11 PM
 
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I've never read anything about lps changing after having a baby. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I can see how cycles in general might change. Mine seem to have. I noticed that tomorrow is the full moon. I find it interesting that my seems to want to come as close to the full moon as possible. Last cycle it was a day later than I expected and came 2 days before the full moon. This time, assuming it comes tomorrow, it will be right on the full moon.
I seem to be synched up with the full moon in the opposite way...betting I O today.

My chart.

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Old 12-02-2009, 04:46 PM
 
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I seem to be synched up with the full moon in the opposite way...betting I O today.

My chart.
I was thinking of you this morning when I took the dog out for a run and saw the great moon looking down on us -- I'm apparently rushing to get on the lunar cycle -- I O'd 3 days earlier than usual AND am spotting today, which will be my shortest LP (if it turns into real bleeding, but the low temp is there, so I'm betting yes).
My Ovulation Chart
Which means. . . YES! That's 4 cycles down -- wahoo! It is so nice now that I'm not freaking out every CD 26-29

*BETH* mother of DD (8) and DS (6) along with 2 dogs, 2 cats and about 100 chickens
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:48 PM
 
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I seem to be synched up with the full moon in the opposite way...betting I O today.
I finally got , right on the full moon. I was beginning to think it wasn't going to happen today, either. FF is predicting I O anywhere from 12/17 to 1/9. The new moon is on the 16th so it will be interesting to see if I O sooner rather than later.

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Old 12-02-2009, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Raravis: you go girl! That's awesome!

MW: The dr. agreed to check me for hypothyroid (but just the general panel, not an indepth one: I'll argue that more after we PCS if I feel the need to) but she is going to check insulin levels to see if I might have PCOS. At this point, I just want some answers.

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Old 12-02-2009, 08:27 PM
 
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tinams8: For whatever it's worth, I had my Mirena out on Aug 25 and I've only really normalized in the last month or so. I started charting right after I got the Mirena out and all my charts are shared here.
Oh wow, that is reassuring that your cycles look similar to mine, even the CF... thank you for letting me check them out! So you are o'ing, still. I am not sure whether I have yet or not.

WWC, that's good that you can get the bloodwork done.

Tina
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:28 PM
 
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MW: The dr. agreed to check me for hypothyroid (but just the general panel, not an indepth one: I'll argue that more after we PCS if I feel the need to) but she is going to check insulin levels to see if I might have PCOS. At this point, I just want some answers.
Get copies of your results so you can decide for yourself. I've read a lot of times thyroid and insulin may be high or low but still within normal and docs say they're fine when that might be making a difference. My insulin levels always come back within the normal range although sometimes they are right on the upper limit. Taking metformin really seemed to help me but some docs didn't want to give it to me because they said my #s were normal.

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