Charting to Avoid/Fertility Awareness, March 2010 - Page 5 - Mothering Forums
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#121 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 04:06 PM
 
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Thanks for your input MarineWife, hoping you are able to confirm O soon and move on with this cycle. I read TCOYF last week, and realized I wasnt really temping *correctly*. I will continue waiting for AF and temping BEFORE moving in the am, and hope that next cycle I will be able to be more accurate. Thanks to all for helping me learn!

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#122 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 04:40 PM
 
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I think cd23 is possible but there's no way to know for sure because of all those missing temps.

If the CF stretches at least an inch (or over a half inch according to NFP) and/or is very slippery, it's EW. My EWCF looks like very runny snot. It's thick and goopy like actual eggwhites, mostly clear but tinged with white. It's not runny like water or milk or sticky/gummy like glue (or boogars...hehe).
Thanks.

It's definitely not boogery and it looks a lot like semen...but it's not because we use protection. It does stretch and I feel wet. I suppose it's possible that I have not O'd yet and my temps are just a bit higher this time around. Annoying, that's for sure.

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#123 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 06:50 PM
 
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For me, the semen looking CF usually is watery. It's clear, and glistens a little, but mine doesn't stretch. But I think like MW said, if it stretches, then I'd consider it EW.

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#124 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 08:06 PM
 
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For me, the semen looking CF usually is watery. It's clear, and glistens a little, but mine doesn't stretch. But I think like MW said, if it stretches, then I'd consider it EW.
I think TCOYF says that EW doesn't necessarily have to stretch. If it's very slippery/lubricative, it's still considered EW.

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#125 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 09:15 PM
 
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OK, I just started charting this month (with backup, and realising my broken still-breastfeeding-at-night sleep might make it unreliable).

I'm on Day 22 and not sure if I've ovulated yet. I do tend to have long cycles, so it wouldn't be totally weird for me if I hadn't. But still. I'm using a paper chart, not one online, but here are my temps:

Day 1: 36.5
Day 2: 36.6
Days 3 and 4: 36.5
Day 5: 36.3 (broken sleep that night)
Days 6 and 7: 36.5
Day 8: 36.6
Day 9: 36.5
Day 10: 36.3
Day 11: 36.4
Days 12 and 13: 36.3
Day 14: 36.4
Day 15: 36.1 (really broken sleep that night!)
Days 16 and 17: 36.4
Day 18: 36.1
Day 19: 36.2
Days 20, 21 and 22: 36.5

So basically, I had higher temps for the first 9 days (with one outlier), then a series of low temps until Day 20, and now temps that don't seem high high, but are higher than before. But the first two of those high temps were taken half an hour and an hour later than usual, because it was the weekend and DH forgot to set his alarm clock.

Does that make any sort of sense to anyone? Add to that, the only day I had textbook eggwhite CM was on Day 15, which was my LOWEST temp ever. I've had plenty of avoid-if-CTA wettish slightly stretchyish fluid for most of the month, but it wasn't clear. Can EWCM be opaque, like really opaque - whitish-yellowish?

I'm kind of peeved I haven't been able to get a nice easy-to-read obvious-spike chart, is all. I asked my sister, who charts, and she suggested I may not ovulate every month - does this pattern look like an anovulatory month to you, so far? I haven't been more stressed than usual, although I've been really excited about planning a holiday next year. I haven't charted my cervix position, because I have no idea where it is and the idea kind of skeeves me out (I can't use Diva cups for that reason).

Wow, that was more personal information than I'm used to revealing to thousands of strangers. Any help would be appreciated! How common is a more-than-22-day follicular phase, and does it indicate anything dire?

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#126 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 09:35 PM
 
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Smokering ~ A few things. First, I'm not experienced with celcius temps. I know it's a bit different than Farenheit when figuring where to put the CL. You don't need as much of a temp spike for a thermal shift in C. Based on that, it would appear that you may have had a thermal shift beginning cd20. The 6 temps before that were at or below 36.4 and the temps starting cd20 and after were 36.5. The problem is that you said you took your temp on cds 20 and 21 a half hour later than usual. Adjusted they would be lower. I'm not sure how much lower in C but that might put them back in the 36.3-36.4 range. You need at least 3 consecutive high temps to confirm a thermal shift and O so I'd say, for now, you can't confirm O.

As far as a 22 day follicular phase, that's not that uncommon. That could still be within the normal cycle length range of 26-35 days. A cycle isn't anov until it's over. You still have plenty of time to O in my book. I'm on cd38 or something like that and still waiting for O confirmation. My ds2 was conceived from a cd30 O. A longer than normal fillicular phase can indicate a problem but doesn't necessarily. It could just be the breastfeeding at this point.

EWCF can be opaque. It does not have to be clear. Feel and stretch are more important than appearance. If it's stretchy and/or very slippery/lubricative, it's ewcf. Since your temps might be a bit off, you'll have to rely on CF to determine potential fertility at this point. If you have any CF other than your BIP, consider yourself potentially fertile and take precautions. I hope that all makes sense.

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#127 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 09:37 PM
 
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I think TCOYF says that EW doesn't necessarily have to stretch. If it's very slippery/lubricative, it's still considered EW.
Hmmm Good point. FF labels them both fertile, so I tend to differentiate between stretchy and nonstretchy as watery and EW in my chart, but I guess no, technically it doesn't have to be. And i've definately had non-stretchy shimmery looking fluid I called EW before. Good clarification.

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#128 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 09:46 PM
 
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Hey MarineWife: Yes, I thought the same as you about a possible thermal shift on Day 20 being made more dubious by the late temp-taking. (Have given DH severe words on the subject of setting his alarm to the same time every night!)

As for CM, mine is driving me batty. My BIP definitely isn't dry - I rarely have dry days, from memory, and this month only one, the day after my period ended. My CM can also change consistency throughout the day, so if I've already marked it as sticky it'll immediately change to wetter. I guess the best policy would be to mark it off at night using the wettest/most fertile texture it had at any point during the day?

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#129 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 09:58 PM
 
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jj ~ I was thinking you could call the simmery, slippery cf that isn't stretchy as watery. That's still very fertile.

smokering ~ You should record the most fertile cf you see even if it's just once that day and/or it's scant. To determine your BIP when breastfeeding or during extended periods without O you need to track your cf for 2 weeks without any interference. That means no semen so abstain or use a barrier without lubricants or spermicides. If your cf stays dry or sticky or alternates between the two for an extended period, you can consider sticky as your BIP. Anything wetter like creamy cannot be considered a BIP, only dry or sticky. Keep in mind, though, that having sticky as your BIP is slightly less safe than dry. Also, if you have one dry day and then go straight to sticky cf that lasts less than 2 weeks, dry is your BIP.

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#130 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Another weekend gone, wow. I feel like I've barely had time to sit down! We drove down to meet our newest nephew (3 weeks old), oh my goodness.. He is soo sweet!

Had a temp dive today
, and oh my goodness. TMI that I think I can contibute to the maca, wow the CM! Goodness gracious.

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#131 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 10:43 PM
 
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MarineWife: I don't even have that many sticky days - for, like, 28 days out of the month my CM is wettish. Does that mean I don't have a usable BIP, and will just have to abstain every month until three days after ovulation?

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#132 of 496 Old 03-07-2010, 11:16 PM
 
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MarineWife: I don't even have that many sticky days - for, like, 28 days out of the month my CM is wettish. Does that mean I don't have a usable BIP, and will just have to abstain every month until three days after ovulation?
If you are abstaining during your fertile time, I think that's what you'll have to do. I'm not sure what you mean by "wettish" but if it's creamy or more fertile you are definitely potentially fertile and need to take precautions. You can follow the first 5 days rule. If you have a clear and sustained thermal shift followed by a lp of 12+ days, you are safe the first 5 days of your following cycle. You are also safe after 6 pm every day you are dry.

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#133 of 496 Old 03-08-2010, 01:21 AM
 
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MarineWife: I don't even have that many sticky days - for, like, 28 days out of the month my CM is wettish. Does that mean I don't have a usable BIP, and will just have to abstain every month until three days after ovulation?
Because my husband and I really don't want an oops right now, and I've had very short cycles in the past few months, my dh and I have been using w/d until I've confirmed ovulation +3 days. You don't necessarily have to abstain, but if you want to be careful, then you will need to use protection.

I am wettish a lot of the month, and I've come to realize that my external sensations don't vary a lot; I feel wet, or I feel dry. Most of the time, until right before AF, I feel wet. So, I've been checking my CF internally, so that I can get a better idea of if we're talking about creamy vs watery vs EW. I haven't had sticky since I-don't-know-when. It's like my body's so psyched about resetting and doing this thing that it's just all gung-ho.

AFM, just waiting around for AF.

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#134 of 496 Old 03-08-2010, 01:42 AM
 
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Welcome, Sarah! Are you using a basal thermometer and temping around the same time each morning? I highly recommend reading Taking Charge of Your Fertility or The Art of Natural Family Planning, or taking an NFP or FAM course...or all of the above!
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Sarah ~ Welcome. What Shannon said. Your temps are all over the place. That could be caused by hormonal fluctuations from getting your cycles back, taking your temp at different times or under different circumstances, not using a basal thermometer and probably many other things. It's not considered normal to have crazy temps like that. Sometimes temping vaginally helps even things out.
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It looks like your temps are all over the place. Are you taking it at the same time every morning? Also, it doesn't look like you have O'd yet...are you checking your CM as well?
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welcome I'm new at this too so take my advice with a grain of salt...

My first chart looked similar to yours, even though I was temping at the same time every day. I got a better thermometer and that helped but then I started temping vaginally and my temps really evened out.


Here's what my chart looks like now:

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2b6757

Thanks guys. I take my temp at 5:30 nearly every day, and I've been marking the two or three days that I take it at 7:30. Usually 2 days per week, I think. I do have a basal thermometer, but it's just a cheapo from walmart.

I've started the course on fertilityfriend.com, and I've been meaning to go to the library and check out Taking Charge, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Maybe that should be a higher priority.

Maybe I'll try temping vaginally and start checking CM. I figured I'd get the habit of temping first and then work on checking CM on the next cycle. I think I'll start sooner.

Would walking to the bathroom and temping there cause too much of a disturbance? Right now I just take the temp and keep the thermometer under my pillow but if I start doing it vaginally then I'd like to wash it I think. lol Would that walk be too disruptive?

Thanks for the advice! I'm not sure I would be doing this if I didn't know there was so much help from MDC mamas!

Sarah. Married to my Mirus, raising my DD1 (Aug. '09) and my DD2 (March '11) and waiting for my newest (April '14)!
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#135 of 496 Old 03-08-2010, 01:49 AM
 
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Technically, I believe you're really supposed to stay in bed. Any movement will change your temp.

That said... I did the -walk to bathroom then temp- thing for pretty much a whole cycle, and it was still very easy to see a clear pattern. I think for me anyways, since I have very 'normal' cycles, the important thing was that I was temping under the same conditions every single day, not say temping in bed some days and in the bathroom others. However... since your temps are all over the place right now, I might be hesitant to do anything 'out of the normal' range. Do you have some sort of 'dish' you could pop your thermometer into on the bedside table, and then wash it once you're up for good for the day? Or maybe just a pretty disguisable towel to wipe it off and then set it on? I don't temp vaginally so honestly, I don't know how 'messy' it gets...

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#136 of 496 Old 03-08-2010, 01:50 AM
 
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Actually yeah, we will be using condoms rather than abstaining. And practicing "Cosleeping One-Year-Old Birth Control". I'd hoped I'd have more safe days, but I guess even a few safe days and the geek factor of knowing what my body's doing makes it worth it. Plus when we start TTC next year I'd like to get on with it, so charting will hopefully be helpful there.

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#137 of 496 Old 03-08-2010, 02:28 AM
 
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Would walking to the bathroom and temping there cause too much of a disturbance? Right now I just take the temp and keep the thermometer under my pillow but if I start doing it vaginally then I'd like to wash it I think. lol Would that walk be too disruptive?
It can. Especially when you are first starting out charting I think it's important to follows the rules as closely as possible. Temp as soon as you wake up before you get up or even talk to anyone.

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#138 of 496 Old 03-08-2010, 03:35 AM
 
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It can. Especially when you are first starting out charting I think it's important to follows the rules as closely as possible. Temp as soon as you wake up before you get up or even talk to anyone.
Oh I hadn't thought of in-bed movements as possible problems. I usually temp when my LO wakes up to nurse. So I sit up, bring her close, get her latched and calmed down (sometimes that involves changing a dipe) then temping while she eats. D'oh! Any of that could affect this couldn't it?

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#139 of 496 Old 03-08-2010, 02:21 PM
 
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Oh I hadn't thought of in-bed movements as possible problems. I usually temp when my LO wakes up to nurse. So I sit up, bring her close, get her latched and calmed down (sometimes that involves changing a dipe) then temping while she eats. D'oh! Any of that could affect this couldn't it?
A little bit of movement in bed is ok. Obviously, you have to move some just to get the thermometer and put it in your mouth. Sitting up, picking up your LO and changing a diaper would all make your temp less accurate, imo. Can you nurse her still laying down?

A lot of us here have nursing LOs. My ds wakes around 6 am every morning to nurse. I roll over, let him latch on and we both go back to sleep. Then I usually wake around 7-7:30 to temp. Sometimes my ds will nurse again when I wake to temp. This has not affected my ability to see a thermal shift on my charts. However, I've been charting for years and didn't have any LOs when I started (my oldest was 9 or 10 years) so I didn't have any sleep disruptions. My first chart was still a mess.

Like I said before, especially when you are first starting out charting, you need to follow the rules as closely as possible. I know that's hard to do with LOs, especially when they are still nursing, so you just have to do the best you can. You need at least 3 fully charted O cycles before you can start to get a handle on things and know when you are safe and when you aren't.

AFM, which one do you all agree with? FF still says possible O on cd35. Ovusoft moved my CL again and now again says I'm in the post-O infertile phase without being able to detect O. I'm leaning toward agreeing with FF with this morning's temp. The only reason I can't definitively pin O on cd35 is the ewcf and hso CP for 3 days after that. I do remember thinking about CP after O in a previous cycle because I knew I had Oed but my CP hadn't gone LFC right away. Maybe that's normal for me.

FF chart

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#140 of 496 Old 03-08-2010, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MW: I agree with the coverline of 97.5 and O day of CD 35 (looking at both charts). Yay for O!

AFM: Still waiting to O, my cervix doesn't feel HSO like it did yesterday so I had fully expected the temp rise today. I've shifted to creamy CM and my cervix is what I would call "medium". Weird. I'm SOO tired and ready to go home and sleep.

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MW: It definitely looks like you O'd on CD35 based on temps, but I agree that the eggwhite makes it confusing. Hopefully it will dry up soon and be evidence of a for sure O date.


AFM: I still don't get an O date on FF. My temps are high for pre-o and low for post-o and I still have wet fluid. I'm annoyed because I don't know whether to expect AF anytime in the near future. Ovusoft gives me an O date of cd23 still but we are still using protection because of my cf and FF not agreeing.
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#142 of 496 Old 03-08-2010, 10:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MW: It definitely looks like you O'd on CD35 based on temps, but I agree that the eggwhite makes it confusing. Hopefully it will dry up soon and be evidence of a for sure O date.


AFM: I still don't get an O date on FF. My temps are high for pre-o and low for post-o and I still have wet fluid. I'm annoyed because I don't know whether to expect AF anytime in the near future. Ovusoft gives me an O date of cd23 still but we are still using protection because of my cf and FF not agreeing.
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2be681

Kimmie : If it weren't for the CM I would totally agree with CD23... It's really unfortunate that you're missing the temps right before that. I think you've ovulated... but it's hard to confirm it

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#143 of 496 Old 03-09-2010, 01:13 AM
 
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Hey MarineWife: Yes, I thought the same as you about a possible thermal shift on Day 20 being made more dubious by the late temp-taking. (Have given DH severe words on the subject of setting his alarm to the same time every night!)

As for CM, mine is driving me batty. My BIP definitely isn't dry - I rarely have dry days, from memory, and this month only one, the day after my period ended. My CM can also change consistency throughout the day, so if I've already marked it as sticky it'll immediately change to wetter. I guess the best policy would be to mark it off at night using the wettest/most fertile texture it had at any point during the day?
Are you me?

I think my "BIP" is creamy. Seriously, I almost never have dry days pre-O.

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#144 of 496 Old 03-09-2010, 03:55 AM
 
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I am annoyed! I always had pretty textbook CF. Now it's weird. What I'm getting right now looks sticky, feels creamy, and stretches a couple inches. I don't know what to mark!!

I'm Kellie :, married to Chris , and mom to one baby girl (7/12/09).
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Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
A little bit of movement in bed is ok. Obviously, you have to move some just to get the thermometer and put it in your mouth. Sitting up, picking up your LO and changing a diaper would all make your temp less accurate, imo. Can you nurse her still laying down?
We do nurse while laying down, but for the life of me I have no idea how to get her from the sidecarred crib to me without sitting up. I could drag her by the arm or something but that doesn't seem right to me. And even with a fitted dipe, snap in liner, infant pf, and fleece liner we still need to change her at least once per night. Disposables were no better. Maybe a disposable with an infant pf? lol

I'll keep working on it for a few more cycles. I don't feel normal yet by any stretch. I can tell that my hormones are a little crazy, so hopefully as they resolve my temps will reflect that. Thanks for the help!

Sarah. Married to my Mirus, raising my DD1 (Aug. '09) and my DD2 (March '11) and waiting for my newest (April '14)!
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#146 of 496 Old 03-09-2010, 07:09 AM
 
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dislocator: I have my thermometer case taped to the leg of the bed, so I can pull the thermometer out without too much hassle (I don't have a bedside table, and the leg of the bed thing conceals it from DD who loves to play with it!). Could you keep yours close like that and pop it in your mouth before you pull your DD out of the sidecar? Or would the times be too erratic, if she BFs at random times of the morning?

If decomposition persists please see your necromancer.

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#147 of 496 Old 03-09-2010, 08:13 AM
 
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I don't temp vaginally so honestly, I don't know how 'messy' it gets...
It's no big thing. I wipe it off on my pajama pants, as I'm about to take them off anyway, and wash it when I think of it. That's more for my piece of mind than anything else. I don't temp during AF, because that would squick me out. (I'm random, and okay with it. )

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Actually yeah, we will be using condoms rather than abstaining. And practicing "Cosleeping One-Year-Old Birth Control". I'd hoped I'd have more safe days, but I guess even a few safe days and the geek factor of knowing what my body's doing makes it worth it. Plus when we start TTC next year I'd like to get on with it, so charting will hopefully be helpful there.
Ah yes. "Cosleeping Two Year Old BC" continues to be effective for us as well. Although, once she started to find enough interest in a random video for us to get a little time together, that has been less...effective. Hence, charting!

Kristine, Mom to Lucy (12/26/07), and Marion (3/16/11)

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#148 of 496 Old 03-09-2010, 12:19 PM
 
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I am annoyed! I always had pretty textbook CF. Now it's weird. What I'm getting right now looks sticky, feels creamy, and stretches a couple inches. I don't know what to mark!!
If it stretches that much, it's EWCF.

AFM, my temp dropped way down this am, 97.3. I now think Ovusoft is most likely correct and FF is wrong. I haven't Oed yet. *sigh I wish I could buy a bottle of maca.

knit.gifSAHM to 3 boys and 1 man; 22 jammin.gif, 9REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, 5 FIREdevil.gifand now 1 year oldtoddler.gif!

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#149 of 496 Old 03-09-2010, 01:09 PM
 
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I had a slightly worrisome 7DPO dip this morning

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2b6757
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#150 of 496 Old 03-09-2010, 01:10 PM
 
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AFM, my temp dropped way down this am, 97.3. I now think Ovusoft is most likely correct and FF is wrong. I haven't Oed yet. *sigh I wish I could buy a bottle of maca.
I'm sorry. Maybe I missed it, but why can't you buy a bottle?

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Originally Posted by lyterae View Post
Kimmie : If it weren't for the CM I would totally agree with CD23... It's really unfortunate that you're missing the temps right before that. I think you've ovulated... but it's hard to confirm it
Yeah, I know. Perfect time to get sick huh? Oh well I might as well just put on a pad each day and expect AF since I have no idea what's going on.

ETA: FF says "you may have ovulated between days 12 and 24" That's so helpful! http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2be681

Kim, Wife to Michael, Homeschooling Mom to Hannah (13), Aidan (12), Brighton (8), and Oliver (5) and Ephraim (2) goorganic.jpgsaynovax.giffly-by-nursing1.giffemalesling.GIF 
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