Charting to Avoid/Fertility Awareness, May 2010 - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 409 Old 05-09-2010, 11:42 AM
 
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Glad she showed for you. All the "symptoms" you described are normal during the lp. The rise in progesterone causes them.
Thanks, so am I! Just would have been awfully bad timing and as hubby said, immaculate conception because we had no opps last month.
Is it possible I had more progesterone this past LP then? I have never had so much symptoms like that, I really though 100% I was preggo.
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#122 of 409 Old 05-09-2010, 11:50 AM
 
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Is it possible I had more progesterone this past LP then? I have never had so much symptoms like that, I really though 100% I was preggo.
Yes, I think so. That would also explain why your lp was longer than usual (if it was). Hormone levels are not static. They are changing constantly and it may not take a big change to cause a difference. One thing I've noticed is that the longer I chart the more stuff I become aware of that I had not noticed before.

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#123 of 409 Old 05-09-2010, 11:52 PM
 
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ok, I still haven't gotten af.
Here is my chart http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ttc3again
I think I probably o'd on cd 37 (although I don't know how the heck that is possible as my cervix was low firm and closed). My cm signs clearly point to the cd25. On cd 33 I put my cm as creamy but it did not slide when I wiped, it was not really wet at all, and didn't stick when I pulled my fingers apart. More like a yeasty discharge. That was the same on cd35. On cd 34 and cd 37 I put sticky but I made a note that it wasn't my typical tacky fcm it was more like if i got a drop of honey on my fingers and couldn't see anything but they stuck together. When pulled apart nothing happened. I omitted 36 as we bd on cd35 and I have trouble telling the difference so I just don't count the day after bd as a safe day, ever. I was dry as a bone from cd 38 on. My cervix was low firm and closed from cd35 on, I checked it 2x a day in several different positions and am sure that it was lfc.
I took a hpt yesterday (11dpo if I am correct about my o day) and a evap line showed up about 8 min. This am I took another hpt (12 dpo) w/ morning urine and a very very faint e-vap type line showed up about 4 min. I will test again tomorrow but am a bit freaked. What did I do wrong?
Is there a way to change my o day on ff so that my cross hairs are in the correct (as best I can guess) place?
Thanks ladies.

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#124 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 12:06 AM
 
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If you go down your page to the ovulation detector section, you can click on tuning/override and put in your own information there.

As for what's happening, I think definately you didn't o before 37, although after that... I'm not sure. Obviously you can't do much other than keep testing. Maybe try a different brand? From the charts I can see, it looks like your average LP is around 10-11 days? Sorry I don't remember which information you gave in your last post. Based on that, and the fact that your temp doesn't seem to be dropping yet, I would just keep testing... you have two BD in your fertile range fro day 37.

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#125 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 01:59 AM
 
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Thanks, I changed it and will keep testing.
I am so frustrated bcs based on all of my fertile signs, I assumed I had passed my fertile phase and my cervix was closed. In hindsite it makes since but I am not sure how I could have know that was my fertile phase (since it didn't match up w/ my other fertile signs) when I was in it. Please keep your fingers crossed for me.

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#126 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 11:45 AM
 
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Thanks, I changed it and will keep testing.
I am so frustrated bcs based on all of my fertile signs, I assumed I had passed my fertile phase and my cervix was closed. In hindsite it makes since but I am not sure how I could have know that was my fertile phase (since it didn't match up w/ my other fertile signs) when I was in it. Please keep your fingers crossed for me.
The rising temps seem to suggest a BFP in your near future

Is that a majorly bad oops for you guys, or are you okay with a pregnancy?

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#127 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 12:10 PM
 
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Thanks, I changed it and will keep testing.
I am so frustrated bcs based on all of my fertile signs, I assumed I had passed my fertile phase and my cervix was closed. In hindsite it makes since but I am not sure how I could have know that was my fertile phase (since it didn't match up w/ my other fertile signs) when I was in it. Please keep your fingers crossed for me.
Without a clear and sustained thermal shift, you are supposed to consider yourself potentially fertile when you have any CF other than your BIP. Most women's BIP is dry/dry. Some women may have a BIP of sticky/sticky but using that as a BIP increases the risk of pg slightly. Your BIP is dry and you didn't have any period before cd37 when you had at least 4 consecutive days of complete CF dry up. Plus, you never had a thermal shift. It's quite clear that you were still potentially fertile all that time.

CP is used to back up temps and CF for confirming O. It can't be relied upon too heavily by itself for confirmation of O. Neither can CF. Temps are the only way outside an ultrasound and/or blood tests to definitively confirm O.

What makes you think the tests had evap lines and weren't bfps? I'm not a big believer in evaps, especially if the line shows up within the time limit.

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#128 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Nicole - I hope that it works out whatever way is best for you.

I hope everyone had a good mothers day weekend.. We ended up getting about 3-4 inches of snow on Saturday, this resulted in no cable for about half the day and downed tree-limbs all over. The trees simply can't support all the leaves and snow on top of that.

Today is cycle day 16, pretty sure I am gearing up to ovulate. I missed taking my temp this morning though, hopefully that doesn't screw things up to much.. Becca wasn't feeling well this morning so I was up and down all morning.

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#129 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 01:54 PM
 
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nicole: If all your BD's are unprotected, your chance of pregnancy is fairly high regardless of when you O'd b/c there's a BD within 5 days of every possible O I see on your chart. I don't understand why you've set O at CD 37. The temp on CD 36 is above the CL you set. I think your O is either CD 35 or CD 39. If it's 39, your LP is only at 11, which is still early for either AF or +hpt. I hope things work out the way you want!

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#130 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 02:10 PM
 
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theboysmama- I am sorry to say (as it sounds like you are not wanting to be PG) that a line is usually always a positive on a HPT no matter how dark if it showed up in the time alloted. And your temps seem to confirm that positive on the test.

If you need someone to talk to please feel free to PM me.
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#131 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 03:02 PM
 
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Seems like CD 37 is actually a little late for ovulation. Maybe CD 35 or 36 is more accurate. On CD 37 your temp goes down, but then goes up and remains high. This seems more like a fall back thermal shift. There are charts for fall back thermal shift of tcoyf.com you can compare your chart to. I've also had long cycles and whenever I ovulate really late (like beyond CD30) I get a fall back thermal shift.

You say you're getting evap lines. I'm not sure if you're still breastfeeding but I've noticed that I get evaps now that I'm breastfeeding. I'm not sure what the correlation is, but I took a bunch of tests during my last cycle due to a potential oops and got an evap nearly every time. I eventually got AF, and I hope you get her soon too! Good luck!
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#132 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 04:57 PM
 
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Not evap lines got a bfp this am. I call it an evap "type" line if it is after the 3 min but within the 10 min mark and I have to take it apart and hold it up to the light This morning a second line showed within 3 min and i didn't have to take apart the test.
I am just really confused as ALL of my signs were showing o for day 25 and then my cervix was closed and i was very dry except for a little yeast discharge at 1 point in the day (i get that occasionally as I have chronic yeast). Since my cervix was closed, etc. I thought we were good. Damn!
This is a REALLY BIG oops for us.
Thank you everyone for your support.

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#133 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 05:33 PM
 
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Not evap lines got a bfp this am. I call it an evap "type" line if it is after the 3 min but within the 10 min mark and I have to take it apart and hold it up to the light This morning a second line showed within 3 min and i didn't have to take apart the test.
I am just really confused as ALL of my signs were showing o for day 25 and then my cervix was closed and i was very dry except for a little yeast discharge at 1 point in the day (i get that occasionally as I have chronic yeast). Since my cervix was closed, etc. I thought we were good. Damn!
This is a REALLY BIG oops for us.
Thank you everyone for your support.

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#134 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 05:33 PM
 
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I am just really confused as ALL of my signs were showing o for day 25
All your signs did not point to O on cd25. The most important sign for confirming O, your temps, clearly do not show O then.

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#135 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 05:40 PM
 
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All your signs did not point to O on cd25. The most important sign for confirming O, your temps, clearly do not show O then.


Nicole:

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#136 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 05:45 PM
 
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I think the confusion is probably that at the time, it did look like your temp was going up, and with your other symptoms, looked like a temp spike... unfortunately when they didn't stay/keep going up... technically you should have considered yourself fertile again, especially since the relevent temps around cd25 were open circles. Starting day 29 or 30, you probably should have assumed that you didn't o, and been on the lookout again.

But-- none of this helps you now!! *hugs* It's hard when it feels like you're doing everything right, and then it still takes you by surprise. Hopefully you guys are able to come to terms with this, as it's obviously a shock! Does DH know?

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#137 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 05:57 PM
 
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nicole. (I'm glad the rest of you thought to post that because I couldn't figure out what to say about being pg when it's not a good time. Sorry didn't seem right.)

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Originally Posted by jeninejessica View Post
I think the confusion is probably that at the time, it did look like your temp was going up, and with your other symptoms, looked like a temp spike... unfortunately when they didn't stay/keep going up... technically you should have considered yourself fertile again, especially since the relevent temps around cd25 were open circles. Starting day 29 or 30, you probably should have assumed that you didn't o, and been on the lookout again.

But-- none of this helps you now!! *hugs* It's hard when it feels like you're doing everything right, and then it still takes you by surprise. Hopefully you guys are able to come to terms with this, as it's obviously a shock! Does DH know?


I'm sorry for continuing to harp on this but I think it's important for everyone else just learning to CTA and I feel like I'm not being heard. I'm not directing my comments to nicole.

Although the cd27 and 28 temps were higher than the CL would've been on cd26, which looks like it would've been about 97.05, 2 temps is not enough to confirm O. Plus, like jj said here, all the open circles from cds 23-29 mean those temps may not have been accurate.

Is it the Creighton Method that relies solely on CF? I wonder what that says about a situation like this.

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#138 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 10:09 PM
 
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Nichole, I just wanted to chime in with another big and congratulations. I hope it all works out.

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#139 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 11:12 PM
 
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thanks ladies!
jeninejessica-Yes, you are right. they spiked down once, but an open circle and went back up then my cervix was closed so thought I was good.

dh knows and isn't taking it to well. He has 2 different disabilities and is beyond exhausted, one of which is genetic and our kids have a high rate of having it, I am out of work, money was already beyond tight, dh is on meds that are questionable...... I am sure we will settle before too long and when we are holding our little one wonder what all the fuss was about and imagine not living without them (just like all of our others).

Thanks again for all of the kind words and hugs, I really want to use nfp as it just feels like the right thing for us. With dc 4 I know exactly where we pushed it and how we ended up w/ dd but this time we were following the rules the best we knew how (not good enough obviously) so just frustrated.

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#140 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 11:18 PM
 
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I'm sorry for continuing to harp on this but I think it's important for everyone else just learning to CTA and I feel like I'm not being heard. I'm not directing my comments to nicole.


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Is it the Creighton Method that relies solely on CF? I wonder what that says about a situation like this.
I'm no Creighton expert (and I'd love to hear from one...someone here does Creighton, right?), but I think Creighton would have baby stamps on CD's 15, 16, 20-22, 24-29, and 33-40. I say through 40 b/c I'd mark CD 36 as Peak, assuming the BD on CD 35 confounded CM on CD 36. I use this page for Creighton reference.

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#141 of 409 Old 05-10-2010, 11:27 PM
 
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thanks for the creihton info, that is interesting. I did not have cm that stretched at all after cd29 and that was like the very first example on the picture chart in the creiton link. (I see where we pushed it there ). About around the time that my temps showed I did not have fcm at all (I detailed in an above post what the c and s stand for on days 33-37).
I obviously have a lot of studying up to do (not that dh is going to be willing to do nfp again)
Again thanks for all the hugs, they make me feel so much better.

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#142 of 409 Old 05-11-2010, 11:34 AM
 
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jeninejessica-Yes, you are right. they spiked down once, but an open circle and went back up then my cervix was closed so thought I was good.
If you don't mind, would you repost your chart tell me when you think your temps went back up between cd26 and cd39? I don't see where you had 3 consecutive temps above a CL before cd39.

Maybe some of the confusion is coming from the idea of fcm (fertile cervical mucous?) as opposed to other CM? When CTA, any CF other than your BIP is considered potentially fertile. It doesn't have to be watery or ewcf. The reason for that is that you have a 6 day window leading up to and including O when sex at any time during those 6 days can result in pg. Once you start getting any CF, you could O very soon, within that 6 day window. So to be absolutely safe, you must assume you are potentially fertile even with sticky CF.

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#143 of 409 Old 05-11-2010, 07:20 PM
 
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Marinewife- thanks for working this through w/ me. I really believe in this method and want to figure out what I did wrong.

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ttc3again
If I had o'd on cd25 and counted backwards 6 consecutive temps than my coverline would have been 96.94. cd 26 -32 all fall above that.
So when it went back down again I thought maybe I hadn't o'd so was careful. I explained my cm in above posts for cd 33-37 and it was not mucus. there was nothing coming out of the cervix, the tp skidded when I wiped, nothing to make me even think I could be fertile. Then my cervix closed so thought I was good and bd. Obviously i did something wrong. Looking at the chart now makes more since but before the temp shift happens it was really confusing. What day do you think I o'd bcs I did a manual overide and can change it if I didn't pick the right day?
thanks again for all your input (everyone)

nicole wild.gif,  mom to 3 boys here on earth jumpers.gif 9, 7 and 4.5 and 2 girl's fly-by-nursing2.gif2.5 and 10/16/11. Always remembering my babies in heaven:  Sam (9/7/05) at 12.5 wks  angel1.gif, Morgan (2/13/06) at 6 wks angel1.gif , Emeric angel2.gif (8/9/10 at 17 wks) and Pepper angel1.gif (11/26/10) at 8wks. 

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#144 of 409 Old 05-11-2010, 07:48 PM
 
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Theboysmama- How are you doing? How is your other half taking the news? I have been thinking of you.
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#145 of 409 Old 05-11-2010, 08:44 PM
 
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http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ttc3again
If I had o'd on cd25 and counted backwards 6 consecutive temps than my coverline would have been 96.94. cd 26 -32 all fall above that.
So when it went back down again I thought maybe I hadn't o'd so was careful. I explained my cm in above posts for cd 33-37 and it was not mucus. there was nothing coming out of the cervix, the tp skidded when I wiped, nothing to make me even think I could be fertile. Then my cervix closed so thought I was good and bd. Obviously i did something wrong. Looking at the chart now makes more since but before the temp shift happens it was really confusing. What day do you think I o'd bcs I did a manual overide and can change it if I didn't pick the right day?
thanks again for all your input (everyone)
The cl should be set 0.1 degree above the highest of the previous 6. Working back from cd25, your cl would've been about 97.05. It's a bit hard for me to get it exact temp because the highest of those temps is in between 96.9 and 97. 96.94 is too low, though. Then your temps need to be at least 0.1 degree above the cl to indicate a thermal shift. Your cd26 temp is not above your cl at that point. You need to reset yor cl to 0.1 degree above your cd26 temp since that was then the highest. It looks like it would still be about the same. Maybe a bit closer to 97.1. Your 2 temps on cds 27 and 28 do go above the cl but then your temps drop back below it for cds 29-34. There's also the issue of the open circles for cds 23-29, which indicates those temps may not be accurate. After cd28, your cl shifts to 97.1 and you don't have 3 consecutive temps above that until after cd37. Based on your temps, I'd say you Oed sometime from cd 34-39 but there's no way to know for sure because of the missing and open-circled temps. I think it's most likely that you Oed on cd37 with a CL of 97.2. Your cd36 temp can be disregarded using the ROT for outlying temps. It is possible you didn't O until cd39, in which case your CL would've been slightly above 97.5.

If you were setting your CL low following the NFP rules for LTL and HTL (that's the only way I can figure you came up with such a low CL), your temps still don't indicate O because you don't have one of the first 4 temps after cd25 above the HTL, which would've been 97.34.

The CF is more confusing because it does look like it had started to dry up and you weren't fertile. In that case, though, I'd go back to the temps. As long as the temps don't confirm O you need to consider yourself potentially fertile no matter what your CF is like. I think it's relatively ok to consider yourself safe every other day after the 4th consecutive day of complete CF dry up as long as your CF stays gone. Since you never had those 4 consecutive days of complete CF dry up (your BIP is dry and you had sticky and creamy days interspersed), you needed to still consider yourself potentially fertile that entire time. CF does not have to be slippery or mucousy or watery to get pg. Those are just the most fertile types.

I don't know what to say about your CP except that that's a sign that's used to back up O confirmation from temps and CF. It shouldn't be relied upon as a primary sign of fertility.

I hope all that makes sense.

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#146 of 409 Old 05-11-2010, 11:29 PM
 
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Marinewife- thanks. That is a lot of info and I am having trouble grasping it right now. I will re-visit later and change my chart accordingly.

doriansmummy - thanks for asking. I am doing ok, dh will come around this is just really hard. I need to go to work but have trouble even thinking about it w/ another little one coming.
The hardest part about this for me is that I really believe in this method (especially from a religous standpoint). We are catholic and have prayed and prayed about what we should do and finally decided to continue w/ using NFP. It is really hard to explain to people bcs when I tell them i'm pg they say well what do you expect when you weren't using bc. I have to explain that I was and it is effective, i just didn't read my signs right, etc. I don't like feeling this way about a new littl ehuman life, it just makes me feel crappy

nicole wild.gif,  mom to 3 boys here on earth jumpers.gif 9, 7 and 4.5 and 2 girl's fly-by-nursing2.gif2.5 and 10/16/11. Always remembering my babies in heaven:  Sam (9/7/05) at 12.5 wks  angel1.gif, Morgan (2/13/06) at 6 wks angel1.gif , Emeric angel2.gif (8/9/10 at 17 wks) and Pepper angel1.gif (11/26/10) at 8wks. 

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#147 of 409 Old 05-12-2010, 12:15 AM
 
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Nicole- I think what you are feeling is only natural. It is like anything else in life that is unplanned, it is a huge shock. I think you need to let yourself grieve for the path you thought was ahead of you and then when you have let yourself grieve I think you will be able to embrace this new path. Remember you and your family have 9 months to get ready for this baby, and it may take that long to prepare yourself/dad/family to fully accept what is to come.. but I think you will all get there.

I keep thinking of you, so know that someone in Oregon is sending you love and peace.
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#148 of 409 Old 05-12-2010, 08:28 AM
 
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MW, a clarification question. With Nicole's chart, I would have probably called myself safe on CDs 30-32, counting the sticky CF as dry-up from the watery earlier. Is that wrong? Can you only count sticky as dry-up when you've had a thermal shift? However, when she started marking creamy on CD 33, she was definitely potentially fertile again...

Nicole, I think it's likely that it was the BD on 35 or 38 that caused this pregnancy. And another for you. I would really encourage you in the future (and everyone, actually) to record your temps only to a tenth of a degree to make it easier to make a coverline, temp all through your LP (you did, but I know a lot of people stop and I'm really starting to think it's important to continue for longer than the 3 days Tcoyf recommends) and don't consider yourself safe until ALL your fertility signs, including temp, agree according to the strictist interpretation of the rules. I really kind of feel bad harping on you for not following the rules being as you are pregnant and all. Sorry. But if you plan to use this method again, I think you should read and study a bit more. Have you read TCOYF or TaoNFP? I would recommend TCOYF as I think it's easier to get through (TaoNFP, while chock-full of awesome info, is a little dense). Best wishes for a H&H 9 months!

AFM, I am finally maybe getting a hint of CF so I may start thinking about O'ing soon! My chart.

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#149 of 409 Old 05-12-2010, 10:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BarefootScientist View Post
With Nicole's chart, I would have probably called myself safe on CDs 30-32, counting the sticky CF as dry-up from the watery earlier. Is that wrong? Can you only count sticky as dry-up when you've had a thermal shift? However, when she started marking creamy on CD 33, she was definitely potentially fertile again...
I can't figure out whether Weschler wants you to count from the last day of fertile CM or the last day of anything other than BIP for the "patch rule" on p. 346 of TCOYF: "as soon as you see a change in your BIP, you must consider yourself fertile until the evening of the 4th consecutive nonwet day after the Peak Day." What does she mean by "nonwet"?

TAoNFP is clear on a double peak CM pattern, however. p. 388: "When your temperature fails to rise after the first mucus patch, you know that something is out of order. You know that you have not yet ovulated. Your conclusion is that you are not into Phase III on Peak Day + 4 or Peak Day + 5. Therefore, wait until your temperature rises for three days to have a positive assurance that you are into postovulation infertility." Also: "The delayed ovulation associated with the double mucus patch provides a very sound reason for using the cross-checking Sympto-Thermal Method. The mucus patch (or the cervix changes) provides you with a positive sign you are fertile, but only the elevated temperature pattern provides you with a positive sign you have ovulated and are into postovulation infertility."

Oh, and BFS, good point on only recording temps to the nearest tenth! I agree that really helps with interpretation.

-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#150 of 409 Old 05-12-2010, 11:36 AM
 
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I can't figure out whether Weschler wants you to count from the last day of fertile CM or the last day of anything other than BIP for the "patch rule" on p. 346 of TCOYF: "as soon as you see a change in your BIP, you must consider yourself fertile until the evening of the 4th consecutive nonwet day after the Peak Day." What does she mean by "nonwet"?
That is a little confusing. The way I'm reading it is that if you have wet (which is creamy, watery, or EW), you have to wait for four days of sticky or dry or afterwards, and if you have just a patch of sticky, you have to wait for the four days (or two days, per another rule) of dry. But I would want my CF to go back to dry for at least a day after a patch of anything, I wouldn't rely on just sticky. I'm not sure what the rule is for that, I think we even discussed this before a few months ago.

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