The September CTA/FAM Thread - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 187 Old 09-03-2010, 08:49 PM
 
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Congrats Katie!!!!

Get used to to those deep breathing exercises

I am excited to have this baby - but I still get panic attacks at least once every few days

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#62 of 187 Old 09-03-2010, 08:51 PM
 
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ummmmmm - I think all you "whateverer's" should come back over here!! We seem to be getting waaaaaay more action on this thread

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#63 of 187 Old 09-03-2010, 08:57 PM
 
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Congrats Katie! Wishing you peace and excitement about the baby.

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#64 of 187 Old 09-04-2010, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Lol Annie2186!

Congrats Katie!

Carrie SAHM to Nora Caitlyn (5) and Finnley Dax (2) homebirthing, breastfeeding, babywearing, intactivist, doula mama!         
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#65 of 187 Old 09-04-2010, 08:39 AM
 
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ummmmmm - I think all you "whateverer's" should come back over here!! We seem to be getting waaaaaay more action on this thread
Seriously! What's up with that? Why is that when avoiding, one gets pg from dtd on a day that doesn't even seem fertile but when TTC, one can bd like crazy and not get pg over and over again? I hate it when people say it but I think there is a lot to the idea of just relaxing a bit. I've heard so many stories of women giving up on TTC and adopting and getting pg right after adoption. Of course, when you are desperately TTC, relaxing is virtually impossible.

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#66 of 187 Old 09-04-2010, 10:50 AM
 
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Annie, it'd be cool if we were in the same ddc. Too bad we're a month apart!

Things already seem to be working out!! One of my bf's is going to let me use her infant car seat (she's 38 weeks along, so by the time my baby is born, hers will be ready to move out of the bucket), so I have more time to save for a new, better car seat!!

Also, DH has agreed to buy a minivan!! So now I don't have to worry about about buying three new car seats that will fit in the back seat of my car. The plan is to find a minivan for around 6,000 (we've already started looking and have found some good options), get a loan, buy it, and then try to sell our car. Our car is worth $4700, but I don't think we could get more than $4,000 for it. The cool part about that is that my sister just got her license, so my mom is thinking about buying our car for her. The only thing that she's bothered about is that it's a Japanese brand, lol, and she lives in Detroit, so she has a bit of an ethical dilemma buying a foreign car. LOL. I hope she just gets over it!!

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#67 of 187 Old 09-04-2010, 03:01 PM
 
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Katie - I know - I'm in my DDC all by my lonesome I'm glad everything seems to be working out already! That is to funny about your mom!

MW - yeah, I agree..........it's funny how our bodies work! I always figured I would have more and that it would be an "oops" that was my husbands fault I feel like I am more capable of growing a bigger family that way, instead of actively TRYING.

I always thought it would be fun to have a bigger family - but it is alot of hard work

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#68 of 187 Old 09-04-2010, 03:12 PM
 
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I hope I didn't discourage anyone from using FAM/NFP. I was trying to make the point that stressing over TTC can have the opposite result that people who are TTC want, not that FAM/NFP is unreliable as bc.

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#69 of 187 Old 09-04-2010, 04:58 PM
 
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I hope I didn't discourage anyone from using FAM/NFP. I was trying to make the point that stressing over TTC can have the opposite result that people who are TTC want, not that FAM/NFP is unreliable as bc.
I don't think that you came across that way
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#70 of 187 Old 09-04-2010, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Seriously! What's up with that? Why is that when avoiding, one gets pg from dtd on a day that doesn't even seem fertile but when TTC, one can bd like crazy and not get pg over and over again? I hate it when people say it but I think there is a lot to the idea of just relaxing a bit. I've heard so many stories of women giving up on TTC and adopting and getting pg right after adoption. Of course, when you are desperately TTC, relaxing is virtually impossible.


I think that's why the Whatevering subcategory is awesome. No stress! Well, at least in theory.

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#71 of 187 Old 09-04-2010, 06:29 PM
 
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I think that's why the Whatevering subcategory is awesome. No stress! Well, at least in theory.
Can one obsess without stressing?

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#72 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 01:40 AM
 
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I've had an extremely unreliable cycle
Traveling, missed days, getting up a lot during the night so rarely a three hour stretch, different temping times....Just really not a cycle that I can trust.

Given FF's interpretation, I O'd on day 20 when it is more normal for me to O between 14-16. However, it does seem likely that I O'd and that it has been at least 4 days, probably more. Do you think I can trust this and consider myself safe until fertile CF in my next cycle? Or should I continue using a backup method any day I have CF at all, until my next confirmed O?

Just curious about what you wise and experienced ladies do when you don't have very good data to work with. (Of course, maybe you're so wise and experienced that you don't have such messed up charts....)
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#73 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 02:15 AM
 
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I've had an extremely unreliable cycle
Traveling, missed days, getting up a lot during the night so rarely a three hour stretch, different temping times....Just really not a cycle that I can trust.

Given FF's interpretation, I O'd on day 20 when it is more normal for me to O between 14-16. However, it does seem likely that I O'd and that it has been at least 4 days, probably more. Do you think I can trust this and consider myself safe until fertile CF in my next cycle? Or should I continue using a backup method any day I have CF at all, until my next confirmed O?

Just curious about what you wise and experienced ladies do when you don't have very good data to work with. (Of course, maybe you're so wise and experienced that you don't have such messed up charts....)
Personally - I would be ok with that temp shift (especially if the CF data is correct) maybe wait and see tomorrow's temp just to be sure though if it would make you more comfortable.

P.S. - Don't let the BFP scare you TO much I am Catholic and leave the BC up to my DH.........and HE decided that it was waaaaay to early for me to O......dork!
You know what we call people who use the rythem method right

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#74 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 02:52 AM
 
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I've had an extremely unreliable cycle
Traveling, missed days, getting up a lot during the night so rarely a three hour stretch, different temping times....Just really not a cycle that I can trust.
That looks pretty safe to me! Even though they aren't consecutive (because of the missed temps) you still have 3 "good" temps above your CL. And your DF data seems to agree.

and sort of on that note...

Something I've been thinking about when it comes to CF data... I'm not very good at observing it, I don't think. I'm pretty sure I'm not very objective and I'm pretty sure that my knowledge of about where I am in my cycle has an influence on how I interpret my CF. YKWIM? I think that I check more judiciously when I am expecting it to be there. I sometimes feel like "come on EWCF, I know you're in there SOMEWHERE!" And if I'm expecting to be dry, I don't necessarily go digging around for CF, if I seem to be dry.
I'm have a very scientific foundation and there is something about making these observations about one's self that just doesn't seem reliable. Does anyone else think about this and how do you deal with tracking CF in an objective way.

and, as for my chart, got a bigger temp jump today.
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#75 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 03:18 AM
 
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Toolip: It seems to work well for some people, but I'm a bit leery of relying on CF; my SIL used just CF, no temping, and is expecting her second "oops" baby, conceived 7 or 8 months after her first. That scares me. My own CF just isn't that reliable. It's ALWAYS fertile-looking; I don't have a BIP at all. It does change, but I haven't noticed a particularly consistent pattern - I pretty much just note "It looks like sperm could survive in it". If I relied on CF alone, I'd have a very effective form of contraception - abstinence for the entire month, minus the first-five-days, except we abstain then anyway, so... yeah. I much prefer the seeming objectivity of temps, even though I know things can interfere with them. My charts have always been pretty clear, though, even with cosleeping, breastfeeding, wearing clothing of different layers to bed, being more or less sleepy in the mornings...

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#76 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 10:26 AM
 
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K-Mom3 ~ If you are not sure about your temps, you can use the mucous patch rule. You are safe every other day starting the evening of the 4th day of CF dry up. After that if you see any wetter CF consider yourself potentially fertile until another 4 days of CF dry up. Your chart does make it look like you probably did O.

Toolip ~ That does sound risky unless you are going to abstain or use protection until after O. The method won't really work if you only note CF when you want to. Where I am in my cycle does influence how I interpret my CF, in a way. If I'm really early in my cycle and I don't seem to have much CF or just a tiny bit of shininess on the toilet tissue when I wipe but I can't pick it up, I won't worry that there might be more fertile CF lurking somewhere. However, even if it is really early but I observe what appears to be wetter CF way before I would expect it, I don't disregard it. I assume that I could be fertile at that time.

I think it's ok to assume you could be fertile based on day counting even if you don't observe any wet CF. I think it's really dangerous to assume you aren't fertile based on day counting even if you observe wetter CF. KWIM?

Here's what I'd suggest you do. First, decide at the beginning of the cycle whether you are going to check CF internally or externally. Don't alternate during the same cycle. Then pay attention and note any CF or vag sensation you have every time you go to the bathroom. Record the most fertile you think it could be regardless of day counting.

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#77 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 12:15 PM
 
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Here's what I'd suggest you do. First, decide at the beginning of the cycle whether you are going to check CF internally or externally. Don't alternate during the same cycle. Then pay attention and note any CF or vag sensation you have every time you go to the bathroom. Record the most fertile you think it could be regardless of day counting.
I think I must not have explained myself very clearly. This is what I do, well pretty much. I do occasionally check internally but generally I just check externally and I record the most fertile cf that I find. I just think that my mind probably has an influence on what I see, because I'm not really an objective observer.

Also, my temp this am was the same as yesterday and ff moved my O from cd 14 to cd 15, isn't that weird... ? I can't figure out why!
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#78 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 12:22 PM
 
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I think I must not have explained myself very clearly. This is what I do, well pretty much. I do occasionally check internally but generally I just check externally and I record the most fertile cf that I find. I just think that my mind probably has an influence on what I see, because I'm not really an objective observer.
I guess I don't understand then. If you record the most fertile CF you observe, how is your mind influencing that? I mean, I think it would be really hard to see EWCF and think, "Oh, but I'm only on cd10 and I usually don't get ewcf until cd15 so that must be something else." Unless what you mean is that if you see CF before you think you are fertile you don't abstain or use protection because you think even with that it's probably too early in your cycle to really be fertile. If that's what you do, than that is a problem. You need to consider yourself potentially fertile any time you see any CF other than your BIP regardless of day counting (unless you are post-O and have had a clear and sustained thermal shift).

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#79 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 12:24 PM
 
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Also, my temp this am was the same as yesterday and ff moved my O from cd 14 to cd 15, isn't that weird... ? I can't figure out why!
I think FF should not have ever put your O on cd14 in the first place. Your cd15 temp is too low to indicate the start of a thermal shift because your CL would have been 98.0.

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#80 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 12:41 PM
 
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I guess I don't understand then. If you record the most fertile CF you observe, how is your mind influencing that? I mean, I think it would be really hard to see EWCF and think, "Oh, but I'm only on cd10 and I usually don't get ewcf until cd15 so that must be something else." Unless what you mean is that if you see CF before you think you are fertile you don't abstain or use protection because you think even with that it's probably too early in your cycle to really be fertile. If that's what you do, than that is a problem. You need to consider yourself potentially fertile any time you see any CF other than your BIP regardless of day counting (unless you are post-O and have had a clear and sustained thermal shift).
no, no I don't deliberately ignore cf when I see it!

ok, hummm, let me see if I can make an analagy here...

I am a beekeeper, and when you're checking the hive, it is good practice to find the queen, but I have a really hard time finding one bee in a colony of 60,000 bees, yk? My mentor beekeeper told me once that you have to expect to find her, even if you see no evidence that she is there (yk, eggs, brood, etc...) and it has really made a difference in my ability to find the queen, if I am expecting to find her when I look at every frame.

That's what I mean about my mind having an influence, does that make any sense?

I guess I could just always expect to find EWCF but the difference for me is that fertile CF is not as distinct as the queen bee, so I'm not always clear about what kind of cf I have when I do find it.

Also, it isn't really a matter of knowing when to avoid. I have fertile cf from the end of af to O, generally. So I don't try to dtd unprotected before O (well, I do use the 5 day rule sometimes...) So it isn't critical information for me, it's just that I was questioning the ability to be objective about one's own body. CF is so much more open to interpretation than temperature, a nice, hard, objective number!

it's not that I don't think that tracking cf is not valuable... I'm just thinking out loud!
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#81 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 12:59 PM
 
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I guess I could just always expect to find EWCF but the difference for me is that fertile CF is not as distinct as the queen bee, so I'm not always clear about what kind of cf I have when I do find it.

Also, it isn't really a matter of knowing when to avoid. I have fertile cf from the end of af to O, generally. So I don't try to dtd unprotected before O (well, I do use the 5 day rule sometimes...) So it isn't critical information for me, it's just that I was questioning the ability to be objective about one's own body. CF is so much more open to interpretation than temperature, a nice, hard, objective number!

it's not that I don't think that tracking cf is not valuable... I'm just thinking out loud!
Well, then, I'd have to say that, no, I don't have that issue. I get what I get. I don't ever expect anything. That may be because my cycles have historically been very irregular so there wasn't any time in my cycle when I would expect to be infertile or fertile.

The thing with CTA, though, is that you are not just looking for ewcf. You are looking for any CF that is wetter than your BIP. That would get rid of any issues with interpretation, I would think. If you are dry, you are safe. If you are not dry, you are not safe. If you don't have any dry days, you may be able to consider sticky your BIP. I don't have my book to look up the rules on exactly when it's ok to consider sticky your BIP. Just know that doing that does slightly increase the chances of getting pg. Anyway, if sticky is your BIP, as soon as your CF is wetter than sticky (even if you can't quite figure out what to call it), you are not safe. In other words, don't worry so much about what to call it. Just consider whether or not it is wetter than your BIP.

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#82 of 187 Old 09-06-2010, 03:28 PM
 
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Personally - I would be ok with that temp shift (especially if the CF data is correct) maybe wait and see tomorrow's temp just to be sure though if it would make you more comfortable.

P.S. - Don't let the BFP scare you TO much I am Catholic and leave the BC up to my DH.........and HE decided that it was waaaaay to early for me to O......dork!
You know what we call people who use the rythem method right
Thanks, Annie and pps who looked at my chart. That is comforting to hear that even though the data isn't great, it still looks like a good temp shift.

MW--I've never tried the mucous patch rule before. I don't know if it will really help me because I rarely have 4 days with completely dry CF. But it's good to know....

Toolip, I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm always second guessing my CF. I do it less, though, as I get more experience. And the different types of CF don't matter so much to me--I consider myself fertile unless I'm sure that I'm dry. I don't really get much sticky CF but I get lots of creamy. Anyway, I think I do the same thing as you, letting my knowledge of my CD get in the way of an unbiased observation.
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#83 of 187 Old 09-07-2010, 12:49 PM
 
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Here's my chart I think I might possibly have o'd. Guess only a few more days of temps will tell. My cm has been really challenging to determine lately. I put put sticky a few times and it wasn't really sticky it was dry dry dry all day except maybe a tad of moisture with one wipe (out of the whole day) so I marked it but didn't really consider it "dangerous", we'll see. I really thought I would have an anovulatory cycle after a 17 wk loss. Guess this just means my body isn't broken.

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#84 of 187 Old 09-07-2010, 03:21 PM
 
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If you are dry, you are safe. If you are not dry, you are not safe. If you don't have any dry days, you may be able to consider sticky your BIP. I don't have my book to look up the rules on exactly when it's ok to consider sticky your BIP. Just know that doing that does slightly increase the chances of getting pg. Anyway, if sticky is your BIP, as soon as your CF is wetter than sticky (even if you can't quite figure out what to call it), you are not safe. In other words, don't worry so much about what to call it. Just consider whether or not it is wetter than your BIP.


I don't find CM to be subjective. But then, I check the stretch in measurable length (which I guess could be subjective b/c I don't actually pull out the ruler, but I'm very good at estimating lengths in other situations), and I nearly always have a long patch of EWCM before O.

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#85 of 187 Old 09-07-2010, 04:10 PM
 
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Oh dear....what are the chances of me being preggo....I was dry ALL that day when we DTD and half the next.. Rule 2 says I am fine, I assume I am fine.
Then that next day...with the crampy pain on one side....(first time for that! Never felt this ovulation pain before) It was like.....gooooopy...and wet...it was so sudden.....felt like I was swimming in it! Guess my body got a little confused because it was so early? I have no idea....

also...my boobs and nipples hurt, along with mild cramping and dizzyness the past several days! and my nipple natural cream is not helping the nipples! Makes me a sad brianna.
period must be coming in a week....! I hope
*Should note....I randomly have PMS that involves....dizzy, painful boobs and nipples and mild womb cramping* Too early for preggo symptoms anyway, don't think it would have implanted by now.

Think I may change todays CM...feel stuff coming out...yet nothing I can see. Vagina feels a tiny bit wetter then normal....hmmm



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#86 of 187 Old 09-07-2010, 05:30 PM
 
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Guthu ~ Maybe what you thought was ewcf was really just left over semen. A lot of times I'll leave the CF blank on FF and mark it as semen obscured on Ovusoft because I can't tell. Was it stretchy at all or just slippery? I would say that if you haven't Oed by now, even if it was ewcf, there isn't much chance of pg at this point. Looking at your temps it's possible you Oed on cd13, in which case a pg is possible but not likely from dtd at O-5.

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#87 of 187 Old 09-08-2010, 09:00 AM
 
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MW
It was stretchy, and I always push as much semen out as I can to help prevent that.

Lueah 6/10 and Gwen 9/10
trying for 2 after college before I am 27! I Chart: http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=guthu
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#88 of 187 Old 09-08-2010, 09:26 AM
 
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For some reason, last night as I was lying in bed I thought to myself that we should put a warning on the front page of this group. I think it should say something like, Don't Play the Game Until You Know All the Rules.

knit.gifSAHM to 3 boys and 1 man; 22 jammin.gif, 9REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, 5 FIREdevil.gifand now 1 year oldtoddler.gif!

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#89 of 187 Old 09-08-2010, 09:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
For some reason, last night as I was lying in bed I thought to myself that we should put a warning on the front page of this group. I think it should say something like, Don't Play the Game Until You Know All the Rules.
Or it should say Don't play the game until you know and are willing to follow all of the rules

ok, so it looks like I did ovulate but I can't figure out why ff put the cl so low, I would have put it higher also why is the line dotted?
When you look at my chart don't flame me, we totally didn't follow the rules this cycle and now I know one of the reasons you are supposed to obstain right after a m/c and that is that every ounce of your body tells you that you should be pg so you justify every "sign". The cm that I had looked extremely inhabitable when I wasn't completely dry it was just a tad moist, nothing sticky, slimey, stretchy, etc. but dh has super sperm so we will see. I am so frustrated with myself bcs I feel nfp is really the right way to go and i know that it works, just not for us bcs we don't have enough self control

nicole wild.gif,  mom to 3 boys here on earth jumpers.gif 9, 7 and 4.5 and 2 girl's fly-by-nursing2.gif2.5 and 10/16/11. Always remembering my babies in heaven:  Sam (9/7/05) at 12.5 wks  angel1.gif, Morgan (2/13/06) at 6 wks angel1.gif , Emeric angel2.gif (8/9/10 at 17 wks) and Pepper angel1.gif (11/26/10) at 8wks. 

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#90 of 187 Old 09-08-2010, 10:01 AM
 
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Yeah, Nicole, I'd put your CL at 97.7 and say you don't have that 3rd high temp to confirm yet. That depends a bit on why you have all those open circle temps. FF should tell you in the Ovulation Dectector box below your chart why it's not sure about your O. That's the reason for the dashed lines. I'll guess that it's because you don't have any watery/ewcf recorded.

And, not to keep harping, but you've got sticky CF recorded since cd25. As soon as you have sticky (since you did have some dry days) you are supposed to consider yourself potentially fertile. I think maybe you were sort of explaining that but I'm not really sure what you mean. Although sticky is not ideal for TTC, it is still possible to get pg from dtd on a day with sticky CF.

I don't think it's so important how much any one person or couple wants to follow the rules as long as they know them. If you know the rules and choose not to follow them, that's a conscious decision you've made. However, if you don't know the rules or your body yet and try to do FAM/NFP anyway, you are most certainly playing with fire. KWIM?

I know it probably stinks for those who follow NFP to think they will have to abstain for at least 3 cycles but that's what needs to be done if you really want this to work. With FAM you need to use your backup, condoms, withdrawal, spermicide, etc., which can stink, too (all of that except withdrawal feels funny to me and I don't enjoy dtd) but you can't just dtd willy nilly. hehe

knit.gifSAHM to 3 boys and 1 man; 22 jammin.gif, 9REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, 5 FIREdevil.gifand now 1 year oldtoddler.gif!

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