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#121 of 156 Old 11-19-2010, 07:42 AM
 
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Hello!

 

I've been lurking on MDC for a year or so but finally joined today. This is my first post! I'm a 31 year old children's librarian, not married but have an amazing boyfriend. No kids, just cats. We both want kids but it's a little soon in our relationship for any BFPs. I've been frustrated by birth control options for a few years. HBC makes me feel awful, I don't like the idea of putting a foreign object (IUD) in my body, allergic to spermicide, and the smell of condoms does nothing for my libido. We're currently using condoms as they are the least evil in my opinion but neither of us really like them. As a teenager and young adult, my mother hammered into my head that NFP didn't work (she had 2 of her 4 children accidentally that way). I've recently realized that my mother had no clue what she was doing (she also got pregnant on the pill because she didn't take it right). No complaints from me, really - I'm one of the NFP accidents and I adore all three of my sisters.

 

Anyways, I recently discovered that two good friends rely on FAM and started doing some research. I'm reading Taking Charge of Your Fertility and have a lot to learn but I am excited about it! I have regular cycles and I am really learning to trust my body. I think it might take some convincing of the boy to trust me completely on it (any suggestions on how to go about this?) but I just started charting so that even if he isn't on board right away, I'll be prepared for when he is.

 

So, I just wanted to say hello and introduce myself.

 

 Welcome.gif

 

 

So...I POAS this morning...... NEGATIVE!!  But I bought 2 at the Dollar Store so if I don't get AF in another day or two I'm going to take another.  Wow, talk about nerves waiting to read the results!!


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#122 of 156 Old 11-19-2010, 09:48 AM
 
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Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone! Thanks for putting me in the OP. I'm currently using both fertilityfriend and myfertilitycharts to see which I like better. If someone tells me how to link one of them, I'd share it but I can't figure out how to make it share. 
 

 

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Originally Posted by capretta View Post

 

Welcome to our thread! flowersforyou.gif  (and to MDC!)

 

 

I'll put you in the OP. Let me know if you have a chart you'd like to share.
 
TCOYF is great! I generally think of myself as a fairly well-informed person when it comes to medicine and health, but it was shocking to me how much I learned from that book.



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#123 of 156 Old 11-19-2010, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Can you guys see my chart from this link: http://tcoyf.com/members/TrishWSU/charts/2.aspx I don't know if it comes right up for me because I'm logged in or if this is a "public" view.


Nope. Can't see it. To make it visible go to "chart layout" on the left-hand side and set the second drop-down box ("share with") to "Everyone, including non-members" and save.
 

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#124 of 156 Old 11-20-2010, 12:05 AM
 
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Ah, ok...I think I got it. Does it work now? http://tcoyf.com/members/TrishWSU/charts/2.aspx


Trish~mama to Kaelie 5/03 and Amelia 12/13, surro mama to Aidan 2/08 & Ellyss 6/09, 

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#125 of 156 Old 11-20-2010, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yup. Looks like you are on CD8. thumb.gif

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#126 of 156 Old 11-22-2010, 08:02 AM
 
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chartgraph_module.php.png

 

Another neg.gif today!  shrug.gif


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#127 of 156 Old 11-22-2010, 08:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_honeyb View Post

chartgraph_module.php.png

 

Another neg.gif today!  shrug.gif



 That is crazy.. Do you have other charts? What is your normal/average coverline, ovulation day, LP?


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#128 of 156 Old 11-22-2010, 09:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lyterae View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_honeyb View Post

chartgraph_module.php.png

 

Another neg.gif today!  shrug.gif



 That is crazy.. Do you have other charts? What is your normal/average coverline, ovulation day, LP?


My other charts are on paper...I've only had 20 cycles since Dec. 2003 so I don't have a lot of *recent* data to go on....but

normal coverline = 97.6

average ovulation day= CD15-19, but many are later. Seems my body will delay ovulation pretty easily if I have stress/illness/lack of sleep

normal LP is either 11 days or 13 days. Have had one 14, never more.

 

Any thoughts????


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#129 of 156 Old 11-22-2010, 09:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_honeyb View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by lyterae View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_honeyb View Post

chartgraph_module.php.png

 

Another neg.gif today!  shrug.gif



 That is crazy.. Do you have other charts? What is your normal/average coverline, ovulation day, LP?


My other charts are on paper...I've only had 20 cycles since Dec. 2003 so I don't have a lot of *recent* data to go on....but

normal coverline = 97.6

average ovulation day= CD15-19, but many are later. Seems my body will delay ovulation pretty easily if I have stress/illness/lack of sleep

normal LP is either 11 days or 13 days. Have had one 14, never more.

 

Any thoughts????


I honestly think your O date is wrong and it is closer to cd24. (that would make your avg coverline of 97.6 about right)
 


Jenn (36), wife to DH for 13 years, DD1(13) , DD2(10) and DS(4)

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#130 of 156 Old 11-22-2010, 09:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HulaJenn View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_honeyb View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by lyterae View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_honeyb View Post

chartgraph_module.php.png

 

Another neg.gif today!  shrug.gif



 That is crazy.. Do you have other charts? What is your normal/average coverline, ovulation day, LP?


My other charts are on paper...I've only had 20 cycles since Dec. 2003 so I don't have a lot of *recent* data to go on....but

normal coverline = 97.6

average ovulation day= CD15-19, but many are later. Seems my body will delay ovulation pretty easily if I have stress/illness/lack of sleep

normal LP is either 11 days or 13 days. Have had one 14, never more.

 

Any thoughts????


I honestly think your O date is wrong and it is closer to cd24. (that would make your avg coverline of 97.6 about right)
 



 


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#131 of 156 Old 11-22-2010, 09:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HulaJenn View Post



I honestly think your O date is wrong and it is closer to cd24. (that would make your avg coverline of 97.6 about right)
 



I'm going to have to agree.


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#132 of 156 Old 11-22-2010, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HulaJenn View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by HulaJenn View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_honeyb View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by lyterae View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_honeyb View Post

chartgraph_module.php.png

 

Another neg.gif today!  shrug.gif



 That is crazy.. Do you have other charts? What is your normal/average coverline, ovulation day, LP?


My other charts are on paper...I've only had 20 cycles since Dec. 2003 so I don't have a lot of *recent* data to go on....but

normal coverline = 97.6

average ovulation day= CD15-19, but many are later. Seems my body will delay ovulation pretty easily if I have stress/illness/lack of sleep

normal LP is either 11 days or 13 days. Have had one 14, never more.

 

Any thoughts????


I honestly think your O date is wrong and it is closer to cd24. (that would make your avg coverline of 97.6 about right)
 



 


 

ETA: honeyb - and if you kept that temp in on cd14 I bet FF would move those CHs?
Was it just a later temp on that day? I don't usually discard any temps unless extreme circumstances like fever or up quite a few hours later than normal.
 


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#133 of 156 Old 11-22-2010, 11:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HulaJenn View Post

 

ETA: honeyb - and if you kept that temp in on cd14 I bet FF would move those CHs?
Was it just a later temp on that day? I don't usually discard any temps unless extreme circumstances like fever or up quite a few hours later than normal.
 



Actually, FF doesn't change anything even if I leave in the temp on CD14. But it does have the dotted lines, as you can see, because of the EWCM after their O date.  I discarded it in an attempt to make sense of my chart, and because my thermometer had been so wonky. For a while there if I took my temp 6 time in a row it would give me 3 different temps ranging from 97.1 to 97.6. So I figured that was just on off one. There were no other circumstances that would account for it being "off".

 

But now looking at the CM, perhaps I geared up to O around CD15/16 and then didn't, for whatever reason? And instead O was around CD 24, with a coverline of... 97.6?  And just ignore those 2 temps above coverline (CD19 and 21)?  So something like this:

 

chartgraph_module.php.png

 

Wow, that would put me at only 7 DPO! Guess I can stop taking HPT!!

 

Thanks ladies, you guys are awesome!!  love.gif

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#134 of 156 Old 11-22-2010, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, that would put me at only 7 DPO! Guess I can stop taking HPT!!

 

Thanks ladies, you guys are awesome!!  love.gif

 

I second that emotion! I was baffled by your chart too. So nice to have experienced chart-readers around to make sense of these things. bow2.gif 

 

Looking at this now in hindsight, I think the rule for setting a coverline in the OP would put it at 97.8 even, which means you aren't even disregarding temps on CD14, CD19, and CD21. Also that puts your EWCM (that's what the green E is, right?) before O. Suddenly it all makes sense! 

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#135 of 156 Old 11-22-2010, 01:45 PM
 
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Hi everyone!  It looks like the CTA members have changed a lot over the last 10 months, so let me introduce myself.  I used FAM for 5 months last year before conceiving DS2 on our first cycle TTC.  DS2 made his grand entrance on October 5 so now I'm thinking about my fertility again.  We've been following the "rules" for ecological breastfeeding, so far as I'm aware -- co-sleeping, no pacifier/bottles, nursing on demand -- but I haven't read a lot on using EBF to avoid and I'm hazy on how to tell fertility is returning.  After DS1 I got a Mirena at 6 weeks pp and didn't return to cycling until 14 months pp after I stopped pumping at work.  Obviously, with a hormonal implant there's no telling what was my normal and what was because of the Mirena.

 

DH is adamantly "no more kids" while I am open to the idea, just not right now!  LOL  I'm not willing to get another IUD and I really, really don't want to use condoms.  For the first time DTD, I told him absolutely no condoms because it might irritate where I tore.  But if there's a significant chance of my getting pregnant ...

 

Anyhow, I'm going to be learning more about using EBF to avoid and popping on here with more questions undoubtedly, so I thought I'd say "Hi"


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#136 of 156 Old 11-23-2010, 04:59 AM
 
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Hi everyone!  It looks like the CTA members have changed a lot over the last 10 months, so let me introduce myself.  I used FAM for 5 months last year before conceiving DS2 on our first cycle TTC.  DS2 made his grand entrance on October 5 so now I'm thinking about my fertility again.  We've been following the "rules" for ecological breastfeeding, so far as I'm aware -- co-sleeping, no pacifier/bottles, nursing on demand -- but I haven't read a lot on using EBF to avoid and I'm hazy on how to tell fertility is returning.  After DS1 I got a Mirena at 6 weeks pp and didn't return to cycling until 14 months pp after I stopped pumping at work.  Obviously, with a hormonal implant there's no telling what was my normal and what was because of the Mirena.

 

DH is adamantly "no more kids" while I am open to the idea, just not right now!  LOL  I'm not willing to get another IUD and I really, really don't want to use condoms.  For the first time DTD, I told him absolutely no condoms because it might irritate where I tore.  But if there's a significant chance of my getting pregnant ...

 

Anyhow, I'm going to be learning more about using EBF to avoid and popping on here with more questions undoubtedly, so I thought I'd say "Hi"



Welcome, Eresh!! Congrats on your newest little one! It's so cool to hear stories of FAM working perfectly. thumb.gif

 

I *LOVE* the book "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing" by Sheila Kippley. SO handy in understanding the "rules" for using EBF to avoid pregnancy. I would highly recommend owning a copy. There's a great summary/breakdown on the "7 Standards" here, but I think the whole book is an outstanding read. It's in my nursing nook now, even though I'm not using EBF to avoid anymore, because it's just packed full of great mothering info as well.  Just thought I'd share. smile.gif


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#137 of 156 Old 11-23-2010, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Congratulations! babyboy.gif 

and 

welcomeback.gif  Eresh! 

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#138 of 156 Old 11-23-2010, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Is it fair to equate EBF and LAM? I ask because I have been, but it occurs to me that I might be missing some subtle difference (like NFP v. FAM).

 

For that matter, what do you think about NFP v. FAM? TCOYF says that the difference is that NFP requires abstinence during fertile times, while FAM allows the use backup BC. It seems, though, like the terms aren't always used that way exclusively. What do you think?

 

ETA: And what about "sympto-thermal" method? Which is the most generic term?

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#139 of 156 Old 11-23-2010, 08:33 AM
 
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Is it fair to equate EBF and LAM? I ask because I have been, but it occurs to me that I might be missing some subtle difference (like NFP v. FAM).

 

For that matter, what do you think about NFP v. FAM? TCOYF says that the difference is that NFP requires abstinence during fertile times, while FAM allows the use backup BC. It seems, though, like the terms aren't always used that way exclusively. What do you think?

 

ETA: And what about "sympto-thermal" method? Which is the most generic term?


I'll just answer the first question, because I'm not sure about the other.

 

You have to be practicing EBF in order to use LAM, obviously. But...you can only safely use LAM for 6 months, but you can EBF for longer, right? So obviously they're not synonymous but I think when you're talking about birth control you could use them interchangeably and people would know what you mean, doncha think?

 

Oh, one thing about NFP vs FAM (besides what you mentioned, which I agree with). Isn't there something about the term "NFP" having certain connotations (i.e. that it's religious-based, that it's ineffective and outdated, that it's the same as the rhythm/calendar method, etc) that she wanted to avoid, so although it's basically the same in principle, she made up FAM to be a more modern term without the baggage attached to it??  Or something like that?


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#140 of 156 Old 11-23-2010, 08:52 AM
 
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Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone! Thanks for putting me in the OP. I'm currently using both fertilityfriend and myfertilitycharts to see which I like better. If someone tells me how to link one of them, I'd share it but I can't figure out how to make it share. 
 

 

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Welcome to our thread! flowersforyou.gif  (and to MDC!)

 

 

I'll put you in the OP. Let me know if you have a chart you'd like to share.
 
TCOYF is great! I generally think of myself as a fairly well-informed person when it comes to medicine and health, but it was shocking to me how much I learned from that book.

 

 

Yeah, responding to myself. I finally figured out how to share my chart. :) http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/323c35  Still working on figuring every thing else out. I got a new thermometer that is faster and gives temps to the 100th place (actual basal thermometer instead of the regular fever therm I was using that only did to tenths). I've always loved taking my temp and kind of like the excuse to do it daily now. Going through a serious bout of insomnia this week, though, so my chart has lots of "open" circles for temps because I've gotten up early or not gotten enough sleep. But I'm on vacation after tomorrow so hopefully my brain will settle down and let me sleep normally!

 

Welcome back and congrats, Eresh!

 

Happy thanksgiving everyone!

 


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#141 of 156 Old 11-23-2010, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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     Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_honeyb View Post

You have to be practicing EBF in order to use LAM, obviously. But...you can only safely use LAM for 6 months, but you can EBF for longer, right? So obviously they're not synonymous but I think when you're talking about birth control you could use them interchangeably and people would know what you mean, doncha think?

 

Oh, one thing about NFP vs FAM (besides what you mentioned, which I agree with). Isn't there something about the term "NFP" having certain connotations (i.e. that it's religious-based, that it's ineffective and outdated, that it's the same as the rhythm/calendar method, etc) that she wanted to avoid, so although it's basically the same in principle, she made up FAM to be a more modern term without the baggage attached to it??  Or something like that?

 

You mean you can EBF after 6 months as a method of BC? If so, what is the difference between the "rules" of LAM and EBF? Or do you mean you can EBF as a mothering choice (independent of BC) for longer than 6 months? Or... is it possible to get menses (so literally NOT amenorrhea) but still not fertile?! Also adding to the confusion, for me at least, is that I've seen EBF used to mean both extended breastfeeding an exclusive breastfeeding in addition to ecological breastfeeding.

 

I think you are right about religious connotations to NFP. 
 

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Yeah, responding to myself. I finally figured out how to share my chart. :) 

 

 

Great! Added your chart to OP. thumb.gif

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#142 of 156 Old 11-23-2010, 12:55 PM
 
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Thanks :)

 

To me EBF always means exclusive breast feeding, so I write out eco-BF or exended-BF if that's what I mean.  Of course EBF could mean something else to other people!  And I think that eco-BF is a mothering style as much as AP is a parenting style though it can also be used as a method to space pregnancies.  I think I was using muddled language in my previous posts.  I have been largely following the eco-BF 7 standards (all except #5 in that I don't nap with DS2), so I should be able to rely on LAM for BC for the first 6 months.  But I need to learn how to watch for signs of returning fertility and have a longer discussion with DH about BC. 

 

While I was pregnant DH said he would schedule his V in November but he's not said anything about it since and it's now towards the end of November.  He still says "NO MORE KIDS!" and DS1 is going through a really difficult period so I don't know that he's really changed his mind. *shrug*  To be honest, I haven't brought up BC because I don't really want DH to get a V.  I might be done but I might not.  It's hard to really tell with a 2 1/2 yo and a 7 wk old.

 

Thank you for the quick link.  I have not read Kipley's book though I've seen it recommended before.  I should pick it up and give it a read.  I'm only really familiar with the high points.  One thing that has made me hesitate is that I NEED to return to work in a few months to pay the bills and my understanding has been that working is not really compatible with her mothering / eco-BFing philosophy. 

 


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#143 of 156 Old 11-23-2010, 12:56 PM
 
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Got AF today!!!  banana.gifblueman.gifbiggrinbounce.gif


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#144 of 156 Old 11-23-2010, 10:34 PM
 
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Yay Melissa! But that doesn't make yoru chart any clearer does it? Cuz then the new ovulation date "theory" we came up with yesterday would make only an 8 day LP which would be unusual for you? Here's hoping the next cycle paints a nice pretty picture this time! :) Good luck!


Jenn (36), wife to DH for 13 years, DD1(13) , DD2(10) and DS(4)

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#145 of 156 Old 11-24-2010, 06:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HulaJenn View Post

Yay Melissa! But that doesn't make yoru chart any clearer does it? Cuz then the new ovulation date "theory" we came up with yesterday would make only an 8 day LP which would be unusual for you? Here's hoping the next cycle paints a nice pretty picture this time! :) Good luck!



Actually in the past I've had very short LP's my first one of two cycles, so...8 would make sense. Still, talk about a straaaaange chart!!!  Here's hoping the next one is much clearer! fingersx.gif


slinggirl.gif  Melissa: wife todh_malesling.GIF, mama to 5 dear children grouphug.gif and remembering Matthias angel2.gif (8.9.05 - 8.10.05)

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#146 of 156 Old 11-24-2010, 08:52 AM
 
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Yay Miss_honeyb! Hopefully next cycle will be a little more cooperative.

 

So, I'm reading TCOYF and loving it. I've been charting and paying attention and learning. I mentioned before that I was using fertilityfriend and myfertilitycharts both to see which I liked. What I'm finding interesting is that my charts look the same on both sites, but fertilityfriend says that I am "probably not fertile" (and I'd agree that I've got a few more days- CD10 in what are usually 32 day cycles, dry) but myfertility charts thinks I am very possibly fertile today (and for the last two days). It's possible that it just doesn't have much info to go on yet (all I had was CD1 from Oct to enter).

 

Just wondering if anyone else has found this anamoly or found one of the two charting sites to be less accurate or misleading. Not ready to start using this as our BC yet but still like to know where I stand and I found it interesting to get two different results. Overall, I like fertilityfriend better so far and I think this has convinced me. Any thoughts?

 


Children's librarian, married to J since 5/12, with 3 cat.gifand 1 crazy dog2.gif. TTC #1, planning on femalesling.GIF, bfinfant.gif, and cd.gif.

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#147 of 156 Old 11-24-2010, 09:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by librarygirl View Post

 fertilityfriend says that I am "probably not fertile" (and I'd agree that I've got a few more days- CD10 in what are usually 32 day cycles, dry) but myfertility charts thinks I am very possibly fertile today (and for the last two days). 

 

Just wondering if anyone else has found this anamoly or found one of the two charting sites to be less accurate or misleading. Not ready to start using this as our BC yet but still like to know where I stand and I found it interesting to get two different results. Overall, I like fertilityfriend better so far and I think this has convinced me. Any thoughts?

 


Hey, I haven't been around much but I had to jump in on this one!  Never, never, never rely on software to do your interpretations for you!  FF is set up for TTC, not TTA.  I don't know about myfertilitycharts, but even if you are using software that gives a TTA interp., you still need to do your own analysis when CTA. 


-Shannon, momma to H reading.gif 8/03, N heartbeat.gif 9/06, & P homebirth.jpg 8/11, missing S brokenheart.gif born at 11 wks 1/09 

 


 
   

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#148 of 156 Old 11-24-2010, 10:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by librarygirl View Post

 fertilityfriend says that I am "probably not fertile" (and I'd agree that I've got a few more days- CD10 in what are usually 32 day cycles, dry) but myfertility charts thinks I am very possibly fertile today (and for the last two days). 

 

Just wondering if anyone else has found this anamoly or found one of the two charting sites to be less accurate or misleading. Not ready to start using this as our BC yet but still like to know where I stand and I found it interesting to get two different results. Overall, I like fertilityfriend better so far and I think this has convinced me. Any thoughts?

 


Hey, I haven't been around much but I had to jump in on this one!  Never, never, never rely on software to do your interpretations for you!  FF is set up for TTC, not TTA.  I don't know about myfertilitycharts, but even if you are using software that gives a TTA interp., you still need to do your own analysis when CTA. 


Thanks, Shannon! I completely agree about doing your own interpretations- following the "rules" is more important than what the software says. I just thought it was strange that they are telling me different things. And I just really really like charts. Of any type, actually. :)

 

 


Children's librarian, married to J since 5/12, with 3 cat.gifand 1 crazy dog2.gif. TTC #1, planning on femalesling.GIF, bfinfant.gif, and cd.gif.

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#149 of 156 Old 11-24-2010, 11:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by librarygirl View Post

Yay Miss_honeyb! Hopefully next cycle will be a little more cooperative.

 

So, I'm reading TCOYF and loving it. I've been charting and paying attention and learning. I mentioned before that I was using fertilityfriend and myfertilitycharts both to see which I liked. What I'm finding interesting is that my charts look the same on both sites, but fertilityfriend says that I am "probably not fertile" (and I'd agree that I've got a few more days- CD10 in what are usually 32 day cycles, dry) but myfertility charts thinks I am very possibly fertile today (and for the last two days). It's possible that it just doesn't have much info to go on yet (all I had was CD1 from Oct to enter).

 

Just wondering if anyone else has found this anamoly or found one of the two charting sites to be less accurate or misleading. Not ready to start using this as our BC yet but still like to know where I stand and I found it interesting to get two different results. Overall, I like fertilityfriend better so far and I think this has convinced me. Any thoughts?

 


How many charts do you have charted? (ie/ do you have enough to know that you don't ovulate until later in your cycle like cd16ish?) Maybe no fertile CM is what is tipping FF off on "not fertile" but like Shannon said, I would not rely on this pre-O (unless you are open to an oops). A sudden early ovulation could spell b-a-b-y!  The only time I am 100% confident is after I get my crosshairs post O - but then again i ovulate fairly early. Those that ovulate much later might have more confidence in "free time" pre-O.
 


Jenn (36), wife to DH for 13 years, DD1(13) , DD2(10) and DS(4)

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#150 of 156 Old 11-25-2010, 09:50 AM
 
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So, I guess I O'ed.  Pretty small temp jump.  I wish I had those pre-o missing temps!

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