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#61 of 94 Old 06-20-2011, 07:18 PM
 
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Thanks, I've kind of been wondering that myself since today I was noticing that I was starting to feel a bit like you do a few days prior to AF.  There is a weak shift perhaps since I've been a bit under the weather so not as sound a sleep.  The temps though are hitting the range that I see post ovulation some of the time though and I never see them that high early on if my first cycle is any indicator.  Hopefully, I will have a better shift next cycle.  I just need to get rid of this cold and quit having coughing fits. 

 

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#62 of 94 Old 06-20-2011, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, if you've been breathing through your mouth more, that could totally do it.  If you're confident about your CM, I wouldn't worry a bit.

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#63 of 94 Old 06-21-2011, 08:10 AM
 
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I'm not sure I picked the right day as CD1, which doesn't matter much while I'm not yet using my charts for family planning, but I would like to know what's going on.

 

I started temping several days before this cycle started, and they were all in the 97.5-98.0 range. On the twelfth, I had some spotting, with cf streaked with some pink. Then I had a couple of days of very light flow, but it was definitely fully red so I counted that as the start of the cycle. However, I didn't see a temperature drop until after that started, and then I went back to just having streaked cf for a day before real bleeding started again, much heavier this time. I've had cycles in the past few months where this kind of spotting, bleeding, spotting, bleeding nonsense has gone on for thirteen days in a row. Does that sound like it might be irregular shedding?

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#64 of 94 Old 06-21-2011, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Physics girl, it looks like you called CD1 just fine.  It's normal to start the cycle with a dropping temperature.  The spotting the 2 days before would be considered irregular shedding.  Are you breastfeeding?  Have you been on hormonal birth control?  It does sound like your hormones are a little out of balance, but there are totally normal reasons (such as breastfeeding) that it could be.  Consider Marilyn Shannon's Fertility Cycles and Nutrition (link to amazon on the first page).  I'll check later to see what she says about irregular shedding and get back with you.

 

ETA: I just wanted you to know that these things don't affect your ability to chart effectively.  It's just that charting is also a way of assessing the health of your system so that you can be at optimum health.

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#65 of 94 Old 06-21-2011, 11:50 AM
 
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I'm 9 days after the oops and still no O.  Crazy libido and lots of EW though.  Think I'm safe.  :)


Mommy to DS1 July '09 and DS2 Oct '12 and someone new in May '15

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#66 of 94 Old 06-22-2011, 12:51 PM
 
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JMJ, I'll look into getting a used copy of Fertility, Cycles, and Nutrition. I'm not breastfeeding, and I've been off of hormonal birth control for a year and a half after being on it for three years. Thanks for your help!

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#67 of 94 Old 06-22-2011, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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According to Marilyn Shannon, spotting at the end of your cycle and fluctuations in your period like you describe, spotting on and off at the end may be related to low progesterone.  She recommends targeting the following nutrients: Vitamin B6 (or even all the B vitamins), Vitamin C, Magnesium, and Zinc.  She also recommends increasing omega 3's and avoiding soy.

 

Getting these nutrients from food is probably best done through food, but in some cases, supplements may be warranted.  B6 is highest in yellowfin tuna and bananas, but there has been good research that taking it in medicinal doses (much higher than you could get in food) has been helpful for many women with low progesterone.  Vitamin C is high in many fruits and veggies, especially when raw.  (I like raw vegetable juice.)  Pumpkin seeds are great for both Magnesium and Zinc, and oysters are by far the highest source of zinc from food.  Fermented foods (kombucha, saurkraut, etc) tend to be quite high in B Vitamins.  Fatty fish, flax seeds, and chia seeds are all very high in omega 3's.

 

Supplements to consider: There is not as much Magnesium in our food supply as there has been historically, so you may consider epsom salt baths (or foot baths) to absorb it through your skin.  This is also helpful for detoxing.  Vitex (chasteberry) extract is commonly used to correct progesterone problems and contains high amounts of the nutrients listed above.  Nettles infusions also contain high doses of these nutrients and have been shown to promote healthy cycling.  Nutritional yeast and brewers yeast are natural B vitamin supplements.  Fish oil or flax oil are supplemental forms of omega 3's.  Marilyn Shannon also recommends Optivite PMT, ProCycle PMS, and Fertility Blend (containing Vitex and green tea) if you are looking for a supplement.

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#68 of 94 Old 06-22-2011, 05:55 PM
 
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JMJ, looks like you were right.  AF arrived today.  If I use the egg day in TCOYF as the day I ovulated which was based on the peak reading on the CBE fertility monitor and also happened to be the last red day on ladycomp, then my luteal phase would be exactly the same length as it was in my first cycle charted.  I think this is reasonable since I did see the start of a temp rise then with the 97.5 temperature that day, which is the same temperature I had the first day of my temp rise in my first cycle.  I think this cycle, my temp did try to rise in a similar fashion as it did in the first cycle but got a bit wonky when I got my cold.  It was neat to see that large drop in temp this morning and then get my AF mid-morning at work this morning.  How cool to know this was going to happen.  Thanks for all your help. 

 

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#69 of 94 Old 06-25-2011, 09:04 PM
 
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I'm here....

I'm not charting temps for TTA on FF this month/cycle as my waking times are wonky due to starting two new jobs....one is graveyard 2 days a week, the other is 9-5, Monday through Friday. Once I've figured out how to temp with my schedule....I'll return to it. I AM charting CM/CP (Billings, I think) in addition to using condoms + Withdrawal during fertile days. 


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#70 of 94 Old 06-26-2011, 07:35 AM
 
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Grrr, DS has decided to sabotage my chart this month. Maybe he wants a sibling. Every other day, he gets up at 5 am. He normally lets me sleep until after 8 (when I usually take my temp). So, I don't know if I'm going to be able to confirm ovulation this month. I had a bunch of EWCM last week but no temps to confirm. Guess we'll have to play it safe this month and use condoms every time!

E, wife to D, mommy to G (born March 2010). joy.gif

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#71 of 94 Old 06-26-2011, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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CarsonBookworm, Billings technically doesn't use CP, just CM.  It's nice, though, that we can pick and choose symptoms and still have really high accuracy.

 

Goinggreengirl, I would be comfortable calling you post-O infertile.  You have an excellent mucus patch pointing to O on CD 15, and your temp chart indicates the same, though not as clearly.  If you shave the temp on CD 14 and ignore the disturbed temp on CD 19, you can draw a cover line at 97.35, and you've got a clear thermal shift.  I'm even more confident since your cover line was about the same, and your O day was about the same last cycle.  You have a "rule B" (4 days drying up + 3 days of any thermal shift) as of yesterday evening.

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#72 of 94 Old 06-26-2011, 02:39 PM
 
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Well, for the first time this cycle, we are going to rely on NFP if all goes well.  In the old days where we essentially did more of the rhythm method, I used to allow us until day 8 and never got pregnant doing that.  Then we would wait until quite late in my cycle, usually like about day 23.  I used to get pain mid-cycle so would assume when we were about a week past that, that we were safe.  We will see how we do this cycle.  With the way my temp shift worked last cycle, I didn't feel comfortable trusting it, but I felt pretty confident I was right in cycle 0 so if we end up with a cycle like that again, we will go ahead.  We'll see how we do.  We are going by the first 5 day rule right now due to being postpartum and will do more when we feel more comfortable with my cm observations and have more history of when I actually ovulate each cycle.  I have generally always been quite regular with my cycles which is helpful.  We'll see how it goes. 


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#73 of 94 Old 06-26-2011, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Jodi, the hardest part for me postpartum was erasing all of my history.  I had charted several cycles before getting married, and I had a pretty good idea what my previous history was, enough that I felt confident that I was fine until CD 12 (which was good since I got married on CD 6, if I remember correctly).  All the way up until I got pregnant, I had a pretty good chunk of time pre-O that I could count on.  After having a baby, I was still having really long cycles, but it was hard to count on much of any pre-O time because I had absolutely no history in 2 1/2 years to count on in addition to dealing with breastfeeding hormones.  I had to assume that my body could do anything, so I didn't go past CD 6 in Phase I.

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#74 of 94 Old 06-26-2011, 10:14 PM
 
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Well, my first month charting had a few bumpy days- I forgot sometimes, and there was that friend's celebratory party... Also, I know I should go re-read the book, but temps in the first half of my cycle seemed pretty high/erratic, and then took a big dip and stabilized somewhat when I decided to be more finicky about how I was temping. So, I guess the question is, would you agree with ff on when I ovulated?

 

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#75 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 07:40 AM
 
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Weird high temp this morning that is abnormal for me at this point in my cycle (not that I have a lot of history).  We did dtd a couple of days ago late cd3.  I assume my temp will go back down tomorrow and today was an anomoly, just weird though. My temp was a bit later today but only by about 20 minutes so should have been pretty good.  I know temps can be a bit more erratic early in the cycle, just not what I have seen other than in cycle 0. 

 

JMJ, we are planning on not using much of the pre-O period for a while as well.  We did allow ourselves once during my AF which is new for us but now we are done until after I ovulate.  We'll definitely be cautious for a while especially since I still nursing and intend to for a while.  Each of my boys nursed until they were at least 3.5 years old although of course not much the last year or so.

 

Ecologystudent, it is hard to tell with your chart.  It does look like you may have had a shift but your cm has still not dried up.  Is that normal for you?  I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable trusting it even though your temps are quite high.   


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#76 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Ecologystudent, that doesn't look like a bad first chart at all.  I think FF is pretty close to right if you normally have about 30-35 day cycles.  (If you rarely ovulate, that wouldn't be enough information at all for me to consider you to have ovulated.)  Since you don't have very many valid post-O temps, your CM isn't completely drying up, and your CP is still high, I would be hesitant to consider you to be in post-O infertility in order to count on not getting pregnant, but I think that it is highly likely that you Oed around the time that FF thinks you did.  First charts always look a little strange as you start figuring out what works.  You'll likely start making those adjustments without even realizing.

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#77 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 08:30 AM
 
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I do usually have pretty long cycles- really bad at tracking them though, so I'd guess they are usually 30 to 40 days. As for the CM, as far as I can remember, yeah, that's pretty normal.   I'm definitely not going to use the chart this cycle, I'm viewing it as a warm up and learning period. Thank you guys!

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#78 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 10:18 AM
 
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Today's temp was super high (we had a weather shift to cold so I've been sleeping with more blankets). FF says I've ovulated now. Looks like you were right, JMJ.

E, wife to D, mommy to G (born March 2010). joy.gif

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#79 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 11:35 AM
 
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Hi ladies!

I am new to this site and new to charting - - I've read TCOYF and absolutely loved the book.  After having DS I'm in need of some method of BC.  I just signed up for fertilityfriend.com and am slowly sifting my way through the site.  I've been reading the online tutorials (which are a HUGE help)

 

I guess really, I just wanted to introduce myself and am excited to start charting! 


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#80 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Welcome alyadri!!!  joy.gif

If you would like to post the link to your FF page, I can add it to the first post so that people can find your chart to help if you have any questions.  How old is your DS?  Have you had your first PPAF yet?  Did you chart at all before conceiving?  One note on Fertility Friend: it's ovulation detection isn't quite accurate enough to use for CTA purposes.  To declare yourself infertile, you have to have enough information to meet the criteria in TCOYF or any of the other NFP manuals in order to be sure that you have ovulated and are indeed infertile.  FF is a great tool to share your chart, but make sure that you keep a healthy amount of skepticism about its interpretations and ask for help if you need.

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#81 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 12:11 PM
 
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Thanks for the warm welcome, JMJ!

 

I'm not quite sure how to post my FF page.....I just signed up for  it about 2 weeks ago but today was the first time I charted my temp.  I had my PPAF about 3 months ago when my milk unfortunately dried up.  I was super bummed to see AF :-(   The past few months, we've been using condoms and the not so good pull out method.  We're at the point now where we don't particularly want another baby but, if it happened we wouldn't mind.  DS is 9 months and we also have a 3.5 year old girl :)

I had read TCOYF a month before we decided to try and conceive - so unfortunately, I was never able to chart.

Good to know about FF.  Do you have any recommendations on a better site to chart??   I'm sure I will be utilizing MDC lots more for all of my questions too. 

 

I currently use a BD basal thermometer orally.  Do you have to take your temp at the exact same time in the morning or is it still safe to be within a half hour of a certain time??

 

I'm interested in taking a class or finding an instructor to help with NFP but have NO idea where to even start looking.  We live in rural MN near Sioux Falls SD. 

 

Thanks in advance for the help ladies!! I'm really excited to have such wonderful help with this!

 


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#82 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 12:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alyadri View Post

Thanks for the warm welcome, JMJ!

 

I'm not quite sure how to post my FF page....

 



If you look at your chart, there are a bunch of buttons at the bottom, and one says "share". That will give you the code to post. :)

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#83 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 01:03 PM
 
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Simple - sorry I didn't figure it out :-)

 

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/35de42


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#84 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 06:05 PM
 
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Welcome Alyadri! 

 

Ecologystudent, glad you got some input from JMJ.  She is very good at the comments and writing in general.  She is right, it will take some time to sort out what works and doesn't work for you.  I know for me, if I even stand up, my temp drops, lol.  Congrats on your first chart. 

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#85 of 94 Old 06-27-2011, 07:39 PM
 
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Hey everyone,

 

Still letting boyfriend digest and process the FAM stuff. He still doesn't quite understand female cycles. I said I was PMSing last week and then yesterday mentioned I had cramps. He asked why. I said because I'm going to start AF tomorrow. He said, 'I thought that was last week..." (still getting over a kidney stone/UTI stuff so we haven't been too intimate for a couple of weeks). I said, "No, I had PMS last week". He said, "Isn't that the same thing?" 

 

I love this man but he's clueless about women. :)

 

So, I broke down and bought a new basal thermometer tonight. I'm sure the old one will turn up now, of course. I'm on CD1 so hopefully I can get a nice pretty chart, complete with temps, this month, to share with him and hopefully we can start using FAM in the next month or so.

 

Welcome to Alyadri and anyone else new!

 

 


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#86 of 94 Old 06-28-2011, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:

Originally Posted by alyadri View Post

Thanks for the warm welcome, JMJ!

 

I'm not quite sure how to post my FF page.....I just signed up for  it about 2 weeks ago but today was the first time I charted my temp.  I had my PPAF about 3 months ago when my milk unfortunately dried up.  I was super bummed to see AF :-(   The past few months, we've been using condoms and the not so good pull out method.  We're at the point now where we don't particularly want another baby but, if it happened we wouldn't mind.  DS is 9 months and we also have a 3.5 year old girl :)

I had read TCOYF a month before we decided to try and conceive - so unfortunately, I was never able to chart.

Good to know about FF.  Do you have any recommendations on a better site to chart??   I'm sure I will be utilizing MDC lots more for all of my questions too. 

 

I currently use a BD basal thermometer orally.  Do you have to take your temp at the exact same time in the morning or is it still safe to be within a half hour of a certain time??

 

I'm interested in taking a class or finding an instructor to help with NFP but have NO idea where to even start looking.  We live in rural MN near Sioux Falls SD. 

 

Thanks in advance for the help ladies!! I'm really excited to have such wonderful help with this!

 


I added you and your chart.  I'm sorry to hear about your milk.  I hope that next time, you can get some more support to prevent that from happening again.  If you haven't already, look into your local La Leche League, and attend meetings even when pregnant, and you can always call a leader if you have a problem.  Some women have a very easy time with making enough milk even into toddlerhood, but some women struggle a lot more, and for those who struggle, the support of a knowledgable mother may make the difference in whether a woman is able to continue breastfeeding or even to breastfeed at all.

 

There is not really a better site than FF.  All of the websites out there are really geared toward TTC and don't provide enough information for CTA.  The only program that I could recommend for CTA (because it divides it up into pre-o infertility, fertility, and post-o infertility and uses conservative rules for determining infertility) is CyclePro, produced by the Couple to Couple League.

 

When taking your temperature, for most women, if they take it within half an hour of their normal time, there isn't a problem, but for some women, it is.  This is one of those areas that you can learn where your own limits are.  For your first couple cycles, I would recommend setting an alarm and actually taking it at the exact same time if at all possible (I know it's not always possible with kids), going back to sleep if you can, and then when you've got a pretty good idea of what your body is doing, you can add in some flexibility and see what happens.  The most important time to be as close as possible to your set time is the time just before and after ovulation.  If you have disturbed temperatures during that time, it will result in needing to wait longer to declare yourself in post-O infertility.

 

As to classes, the closest Sympto-Thermal Method class I was able to find was through the Couple to Couple League in Marshall, MN.  It begins Friday, July 15 at 7:00 PM, so you would be just in time to start a new series of classes if that is a realistic option for you.  CCL teaches a method similar to that taught in TCOYF, but the rules and language used are slightly different.  They also teach NFP from a Catholic perspective (The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception.) with a good amount of Catholic theology on marriage taught alongside the method.  If that would be interesting to you, this could be a really good option for you.  Otherwise, I don't know of any other classes teaching the STM anywhere near you.

 

There are a couple Creighton instructors in Sioux Falls, SD showing up in this search.  The Creighton model is a mucus-only method that is comparably effective to the STM, but only if you take one on one instruction from a certified instructor.  It does not require temperature observations, just observing several qualities of your CM at various points throughout the day.  It is taught by a Catholic organization from a purely scientific perspective.  This also has the advantage that it is connected to the most advanced system of OBGYN care, so if you found a physician trained in NaPro Technology, you could take your chart to your OBGYN and s/he could make diagnoses from your charts and help trace the root of your problem.

 

From the search, it looks like there's also a decent Billings (another CM only method) presence in MN (though I don't know where those little towns are in comparison to where you are), so you might look into that  In the abbreviations for methods STM/CCL is Sympto-Thermal Method taught by the Couple to Couple League.  BOM/BOMA is Billings Ovulation Method and CrM/PPVI is Creighton taught by the Pope Paul VI Institute.

 

There are also correspondence courses for most of these organizations, so if that would be more reasonable for you, I can help you get connected to them if you would like.  If you want to do the STM and really prefer not to hear all about Catholic marriage theology, TCOYF is designed to be able to be learned without the support of an instructor, and we can give you a decent amount of support here.  NFP International also designs their manual to be able to completely learn the method from their book.  I personally like their method because it gives a very broad understanding of all the symptoms and a great number of options for rules based on different kinds of dry-up and different kinds of temperature rises.  It's hard to use that method for charting on Fertility Friend because I want to put in so much more information on CM than it allows, and I want to draw my own lines on my chart.  It is taught from a very conservative Catholic perspective with very traditional views of gender.  The couple running this organization has done the most up-to-date research on breastfeeding amenorrhea and the return to fertility after childbirth.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by librarygirl View Post

Hey everyone,

 

Still letting boyfriend digest and process the FAM stuff. He still doesn't quite understand female cycles. I said I was PMSing last week and then yesterday mentioned I had cramps. He asked why. I said because I'm going to start AF tomorrow. He said, 'I thought that was last week..." (still getting over a kidney stone/UTI stuff so we haven't been too intimate for a couple of weeks). I said, "No, I had PMS last week". He said, "Isn't that the same thing?" 

 

I love this man but he's clueless about women. :)

 

So, I broke down and bought a new basal thermometer tonight. I'm sure the old one will turn up now, of course. I'm on CD1 so hopefully I can get a nice pretty chart, complete with temps, this month, to share with him and hopefully we can start using FAM in the next month or so.

 

Welcome to Alyadri and anyone else new!

 

 


Librarygirl, that's pretty funny!  Good luck with helping him to get it.  It's hard to teach him when you're still learning yourself, but a lot of guys eventually really get into the science of it all.  Enjoy the adventure!

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#87 of 94 Old 06-28-2011, 04:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

Librarygirl, that's pretty funny!  Good luck with helping him to get it.  It's hard to teach him when you're still learning yourself, but a lot of guys eventually really get into the science of it all.  Enjoy the adventure!


So, last night, I wanted to check in here before going to bed and he asked me what I was looking at. I told him and he wanted to know what we talk about. I mentioned charts and he said, "explain" so I pulled up a few charts and actually explained it all to him. I've been charting for 8 months, just without temps for the last three so I've got a pretty good history. We had a great talk and I think we're just about there! :)

 

Yay!

 


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#88 of 94 Old 06-28-2011, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Yay, librarygirl!

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#89 of 94 Old 06-28-2011, 08:20 PM
 
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JMJ,

Thank you so much for such a in depth answer!  You're AWESOME!

 

RE my unfortunate milk supply, it's something I've been dealing with since having my 1st child.  From day one my supply was horribly low.  My midwife, doula and I tried absolutely everything under the sun.  I went to LLL meetings, pumped every two hours, took all sorts of supplements and herbs, changed my diet, drank beer, and even broke down and tried prescription Reglan (spelling) The list could go on and on.  I did what I could for both kids and made it to 6 months.  For whatever reason my body just quit making milk.  I tried pumping around the clock and would only produce a few drops (which of  course would get stuck in the membranes)  Anyway, sooooooooooooooooooper frustrating for me because breastfeeding is such an amazing experience that I hate to see it short lived for health and bonding reasons.

 

I emailed the lady about the couple to couple league and can't wait to start!  I thought it'd be good for my husband to be able to join in and understand what I'm learning.  Even though it's my body, I still feel like he needs to take an active role in our contraception choice.  Thank you so much for finding it for me!  It's only 30 minutes from our house and dh and I are catholic - SCORE!

 

I had something kinda weird happen today.  For whatever reason I spotted a little in the morning.  I only noticed it after going to the bathroom and wiping.  Just a very faint pink on the toilet paper.  Could it be that while checking my cervix I irritated something thus causing the spotting? Should I be marking it down even if nothing came from it? AF isn't due for another week and a half or so.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#90 of 94 Old 06-28-2011, 08:21 PM
 
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Just out of curiosity, how long has everyone been charting ???


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