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Old 07-17-2011, 01:06 PM
 
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Ugh.  Right after posting the above I found more spotting!  Still shouldn't be anything to worry about, right?


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Old 07-18-2011, 07:35 AM
 
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stranger and stranger....  I'm on CD 13, and my temp this morning was high.  Like post O high.  I am pretty sure I haven't ovulated, because every cycle previous to this one has involved a loooong, drawn out build up to O, plus 2 full days of mittelschmertz.  None of which has happened this time.  Unfortunately, the only other clean temp I've gotten this cycle was CD 1, and it was plenty low then, so I couldn't be pregnant, right?


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Old 07-18-2011, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Your bleeding could have been breakthrough bleeding pre-ovulation, and you just didn't have CM to go along with it.  Such breakthrough bleeding is a sign that the lining of your endometrium is so thick that you don't have enough estrogen to maintain it, and it normally ends around the time you ovulate.  It is usually accompanied by EWCM, but it can be on its own as well.  For this reason, any time you are experiencing strange bleeding, you should consider yourself to be potentially fertile.

 

Tell me about color.  Is it red or brown?  Post-period spotting is usually brown while pre-O spotting is usually red.  Pregnancy spotting can be either one, but if your temp had a huge drop on CD1, it is unlikely that you are pregnant.  Do you have a chart we can look at?

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Old 07-18-2011, 08:49 AM
 
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Unfortunately, FF seems to have lost my chart for my last cycle.  I tried to look at it today, and it just wasn't there, I don't know what's going on with that.  I do remember that my luteal phase was 12 days long, it's been around 9 or 10 days for the last several cycles, so I thought my hormones were getting better.  There's not much to look at on my current chart, but here it is: 

screen-capture.png

My coverline is usually about 97.4 or 97.5.  CD 1 was 97.0, today was 97.7.  The spotting starts off as pink tinged mucous, and then turns brown.  There isn't a lot of mucous (I usually have a lot right before O), but there is some. 

 

 


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Old 07-18-2011, 08:54 AM
 
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I've also had some very mild cramping with the spotting.


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Old 07-18-2011, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Was that a normal period for you, or was it lighter than normal?  Did you chart last cycle's temps throughout your LP and see a drop on CD 1 exactly?  If so, I would be pretty sure you aren't pregnant yet (though test if you are nervous about it), but it's hard to tell what is going on.  You may have just ovulated (in which case, the spotting will probably go away).  You may have delayed ovulation for some reason, and your temp is still bouncing around, or it could be something else.  While you are experiencing spotting and/or any CM, I would be careful about considering yourself potentially fertile, though.

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Old 07-18-2011, 09:57 AM
 
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The amount of bleeding was pretty normal.  I didn't get good temps during my LP.  I can't seem to manage the variables of cosleeping + toddler who likes to hide my thermometer + remembering to bring my phone to where I can hear it etc...  I was noticing a lot of EWCM during the last couple days of my LP which was making me wonder if I really had ovulated before.  So I temped, got the 97.0 and started bleeding that day.  With the exception of a miscommunication last cycle (which ended up being 2 full weeks before O) we've been very careful about using condoms if I'm not sure.  If I have already ovulated this cycle, then it's a full week earlier than has been normal for me lately. 


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Old 07-18-2011, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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If temperature is a big problem for you, perhaps you should look into one of the mucus-only methods of charting (Creighton or Billings).  Temperature can give you some good information on what is going on in your cycles, but if you don't have a complete record, it's hard to assume that you are infertile based on it.  As for handling temping with a cosleeping toddler, that's a tough one.  We have a sidecarred crib, and I hid mine between the bed mattress and the crib mattress, and our schedule is consistent enough that I can usually chart my temp within about a half-hour time frame without an alarm clock.  It's tricky, though.

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Old 07-18-2011, 12:09 PM
 
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His sleep is getting a lot better lately, but the time we get up in the morning can still vary by more than an hour.   So mostly we just assume I am potentially fertile and use a condom.  Honestly, my mucous patterns seem to be a bit all over the place since getting my cycle back too, so I'm not sure a mucous only method would be any better.  If my temp is still high tomorrow I'll probably drop by the dollar tree and pick a test up.  I am really hoping for no oops pregnancies until this cycle at the earliest.  If I'm somehow pregnant now, there's no way I can graduate before giving birth like I'd hoped.  Even this cycle would be cutting it mighty close.  I might end up taking a final or two with a newborn strapped to me or out in the hall with daddy.  I will say though that when my friend handed me her tiny little sleeping baby yesterday so she could catch her toddler, it gave me a touch of the baby fever. 


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Old 07-19-2011, 11:49 AM
 
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temp today was much lower, 97.2.  Feeling relieved.


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Old 07-20-2011, 08:03 AM
 
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Alyadri - congrats on your pregnancy.  My third was also a March baby (although barely being 2 weeks late, lol).  It was a really nice time of year to have a baby.  Enjoy.  I have loved having three so far.  It really is a lot of fun. 

 

Angelorum, glad you are a bit relieved, I hope everything sorts itself out soon for you. 

 

My temps are hovering around my coverline the last couple of days.  I find if I don't get a good 6 hours sleep, my temps end up a bit on the low side.  I could of course be starting to drop anyways.  I am feeling like AF is about to arrive and today would be the same length of LP I have had the previous 2 cycles so we'll see what happens today. 

 

Jodi


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Old 07-21-2011, 07:55 AM
 
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Just thought I would update, AF did not arrive yesterday but my temp has dropped a bit more this mor.  Mning.  I am now below the LTL and feel like AF's arrival is imminent so likely today I would think.   I have had a gradual decrease in BBT the last few days.   My LP stretched her legs a little this cycle as well.  Maybe it will a little more of the next few months as my body adjusts my cycle postpartum.  My ovulation date has started to get earlier this cycle as well.  It will be interesting to see where it all settles over the next few cycles. 

 

Jodi


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Old 07-21-2011, 06:45 PM
 
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No AF today, so hopefully tomorrow.


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Old 07-22-2011, 10:17 PM
 
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Just an update, AF just arrived.  Interestingly it arrived exactly 14 days from when I had ovulation pain.  This cycle I ovulated a couple of days earlier than last cycle and my luteal phase lengthened by a couple of days as well.  My temps were a bit different this cycle in that they really had a gradual decline over the last few days rather than a sharp decline.  I knew we had not broken any rules but the longer LP had made me a big nervous the last day or so even though I knew it was normal postpartum.    It will be nice to have a longer LP in future to give us more days.  I have to say I really enjoyed NFP this month.  It was kind of exciting waiting for and planning for the green lights part of the cycle.

 

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Old 07-23-2011, 07:39 AM
 
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I'm just starting CTA and I'm trying both Fertility Friend and TCOYF to see which is easier to use online (I think FF will win), but I was wondering if others have some insight on a couple things:

I don't have air conditioning - on really hot days/nights, do you find it affects your BBT? Should I discard temps taken on hot nights?

Anyone have experience stopping the pill, and how long it took to have consistent cycles? This is my second cycle off the pill... My period was wicked short, and my temps have had a few spikes, and I'm not sure how that affects the chart...(I tried to put my chart in this post, but it's not showing up)... I discarded one of the high temps because I got less than 6 hours sleep that night and it was super hot, but the other high temp was a normal sleep night... So it's been mostly 97.3 to 97.5 with two 98.5 temps and I'm on CD 7.

 

 

 

 


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Old 07-23-2011, 08:21 AM
 
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I'm just starting CTA and I'm trying both Fertility Friend and TCOYF to see which is easier to use online (I think FF will win), but I was wondering if others have some insight on a couple things:

I don't have air conditioning - on really hot days/nights, do you find it affects your BBT? Should I discard temps taken on hot nights?

Anyone have experience stopping the pill, and how long it took to have consistent cycles? This is my second cycle off the pill... My period was wicked short, and my temps have had a few spikes, and I'm not sure how that affects the chart...(I tried to put my chart in this post, but it's not showing up)... I discarded one of the high temps because I got less than 6 hours sleep that night and it was super hot, but the other high temp was a normal sleep night... So it's been mostly 97.3 to 97.5 with two 98.5 temps and I'm on CD 7.

 

 

 

 


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As for the hot days, you should make a note for sure and you'll just have to see. I have found that my temps are not greatly affected by the ambient temperature but it doesn't get too hot here.

It could take several months for you to regulate after coming off the pill, but I have also seen some people be back to normal right away, and some people who never seem to get back to normal. So it really depends. And I just have to say the obligatory.... You can't rely on charting until you have three months of clear/readable charts under your belt. Until then, you should be using a back-up method.

Charting is super fun!!
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:23 AM
 
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When I got my cycle back before we had our first child, I had 1 AF and then got pregnant the next cycle.  I found my cycle to be back to the same old tricks the first cycle off the pill.  My sister on the other hand needed about 5-6 months before she started cycling normally again. I think it is just a wait and see thing.  I dont notice a huge difference between hot and cooler days when I am temping, at least not enough to make a big difference to the pattern but some people might.  I agree with making a note of it.  I don't think I would disturb the temperature, at least not until you know how it affects you.  Have fun charting!


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Old 07-23-2011, 10:07 AM
 
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FaithHopeLove- Like pp's have said, you'll just have to wait and see about both your questions.  Definitely mark your temps from hot nights so you can reference them later and see if the heat affects you or not based on your overall pattern.  Regulating from the pill is probably a more likely cause of strange temps as your hormones fluctuate.  You could regulate within a few cycles or it could take upwards of a year.  It's so great that you're charting now so that you can watch the process happen.  But definitely use strict CTA rules AND back up until your cycles are normalized! 

 

To share your charts from FF just click the share button underneath it and copy and paste the url.  The thread keeper can post it in the first post as well for others to reference as needed.  To paste the actual image, save it to your computer and insert it into your post (the insert pic button is 2 to the left of the paperclip icon in the toolbar).


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Old 07-23-2011, 07:36 PM
 
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Hi,

 

I just wanted to introduce myself.  I just had a little boy, my first, after getting married in August and conceiving on our honeymoon.  I had been charting my cycle for a few months prior to that based on the method taught by the couple to couple league and it seemed to work.  We'd now like to space the next birth a little bit, and I'd like to use charting to help with that.  The thing is, given my novice status going into pregnancy, I'm now a little confused about how to apply the rules postpartum and what to expect with BFing.  I look forward to getting to know all of you, and getting to pick your brains love.gif

 

Peace,

Anka


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Old 07-23-2011, 07:57 PM
 
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Hi,

 

I just wanted to introduce myself.  I just had a little boy, my first, after getting married in August and conceiving on our honeymoon.  I had been charting my cycle for a few months prior to that based on the method taught by the couple to couple league and it seemed to work.  We'd now like to space the next birth a little bit, and I'd like to use charting to help with that.  The thing is, given my novice status going into pregnancy, I'm now a little confused about how to apply the rules postpartum and what to expect with BFing.  I look forward to getting to know all of you, and getting to pick your brains love.gif

 

Peace,

Anka


congratulations! How old is your babe? I have no personal experience but you probably want to look into LAM for the first 6 months...

Welcome to CTA! There's a lot to learn!
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Old 07-25-2011, 05:34 PM
 
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congratulations! How old is your babe? I have no personal experience but you probably want to look into LAM for the first 6 months...

Welcome to CTA! There's a lot to learn!


Thanks.  He's 3 weeks old today.  I know every mom thinks this, but he is just beautiful!

 

I was thinking about LAM, but the couple to couple league version of it seemed way too strict.  While I'm pretty high touch, I have to go back to work after 3 months and even now have to leave the baby to go for an occasional meeting.  I just googled LAM, though, and found a Wikipedia article with far more doable guildelines.  Should I chart my temperature and CM while I'm doing it, or do I just do LAM and start charting after my first menses?

 

Anka

 


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Old 07-26-2011, 08:18 AM
 
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You can chart prior to your menses but may not find it too interesting, lol.  I think if you do LAM and watch for changes in your CM that would be fine for now.  Once you start noticing changes, it would be a good idea to start charting.  I know I starting charting early on and ended up giving it a rest for a while as I had no signs of CM and then when I got further along I did start charting and was able to catch my first ovulation prior to my first menses.  Enjoy your time with your little one, it goes so fast and you are right, they are so beautiful at this age.  Really I have found every age is so neat to see.  I never realized before kids how much I would love watching my kids grow and learn. 

 

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Old 07-26-2011, 09:41 AM
 
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Thanks.  He's 3 weeks old today.  I know every mom thinks this, but he is just beautiful!

 

I was thinking about LAM, but the couple to couple league version of it seemed way too strict.  While I'm pretty high touch, I have to go back to work after 3 months and even now have to leave the baby to go for an occasional meeting.  I just googled LAM, though, and found a Wikipedia article with far more doable guildelines.  Should I chart my temperature and CM while I'm doing it, or do I just do LAM and start charting after my first menses?

 

Anka

 


I think most people wait until after their first pp cycle to start charting. I also think that generally the first pp luteal phase is not long enough to be fertile. But I do know some people get pregnant again off that first pp egg... so, I'm not sure! Hopefully someone who knows more will chime in.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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About 1/3 of women will not ovulate before their first postpartum bleed, and another 1/3 will have a short luteal phase.  That leaves only 1/3 of women who could get pregnant before their first postpartum bleed.  Statistically, about 6% (different studies show 5-10%) of women not preventing (including not charting) will get pregnant before their first postpartum bleed.  It's a small chance, and for some women, it's a small enough chance, especially if they experience a long lactational amenorrhea so that they are considering having another by the time they are expecting their first PPAF.  Other women wish to have a little more effectiveness.  Still, I see far more unplanned pregnancies in the first few cycles postpartum than I do before the first PPAF.

 

Anka, which CCL book are you using, the 4th edition one or the Student Guide?  The 4th Edition promotes ecological breastfeeding, something entirely different than LAM.  If you are fully breastfeeding (at the breast, not by pumping), going no longer than 4 hours during the day or 6 hours at night between feedings, your baby is under 6 months, and you have had no postpartum bleeding since 56 days postpartum, you qualify for LAM.  If any of that changes (like if you need to pump for bottles when you go back to work), then I would start charting or at least make a mental note of CM observations and start charting when you are having CM.  You may wish to start charting at least for a little while when you first go back to work.  Often, the sudden change of having the mother gone for a significant portion of the day will bring back her cycle.  If the requirements of LAM do not work well for your family, I would be more careful about charting right away.

 

If you want more effectiveness than the 6% chance that you would get pregnant if you did no charting or anything to prevent a pregnancy before your first postpartum cycle, one simple way to decrease your chances of pregnancy a little more is to not DTD more often than every 10th day.  If you DTD exactly every 10 days, that cuts the probability of pregnancy in half to 3%, and if you sometimes go more than 10 days, you decrease the probability even more.  (The 3% if a theoretical probability.  In an actual study, about 1% of women who used this method correctly got pregnant because waiting more than 10 days some of the time was common.)

 

Charting can be quite effective, though sometimes frustrating, in the postpartum phase.  If you are very serious about needing to postpone another pregnancy, being very conservative pays off.  When your cycles do return, do not use the previous history rules (what your experience was before you got pregnant doesn't mean anything for what is happening after you have a baby), and be careful about using the last dry day rule (about 94% effective for STM users, so if that is good enough for you, then go for it) in the first couple cycles until you have good evidence that you always have enough warning with your CM.

 

If you want a little more information, consider the following:

-CCL has a new postpartum class including the Postpartum Student Guide.  If you are still a CCL member, the class would be free, but you would have to pay for the book.

-Taking a Creighton class.  It might just confuse you more to be learning two methods, but when it comes to the time before your first PPAF, CM is all you really have to go by, and the Creighton people know more than anybody about CM.

-Using a Clear Blue Fertility Monitor and learning the Marquette Method for the postpartum phase.  It is not difficult and works quite well in conjunction with the STM taught by CCL.  The only downside is the cost of the fertility monitor and the cost and use of resources for the non-reusable test sticks (which you need one at least every other day before your first PPAF).  Jodi could tell you a lot more about this.

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Old 07-26-2011, 09:05 PM
 
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As JMJ said, a lot of women have a short luteal phase. I have read that most women have a luteal phase prior to their first PPAF for 6-8 days.  Personally, I caught my first PPAF and I had a luteal phase of 11 days so it is not always the case to be short.  If you PPAF comes early, it is more likely that you will not ovulate.  If it is longer, you are more likely to ovulate prior to your first menses. 

 

I used the Marquette method with the clear blue fertility monitor postpartum and now use it in conjunction with STM now that I am cycling and really find it quite helpful.  You definitely use a lot more test strips postpartum with the is method.  Once you are cycling, the test strip use decreases significantly and a box of 30 test strips could last up to 4 months. They do have a mucus only method but I did not use that as I was following more closely to CCL for that.  I did read the postpartum CCL guide and found that useful.  I got my strips and monitor from ebay as it was much cheaper than in the stores.  Amazon supposedly has good prices on test strips but they are not available to me in Canada.  Postpartum, with this method you test every other day and if you have a low reading you are safe for that day, if you have a high reading, you are considered fertile and need to test daily once you have a high reading.  You trick the monitor postpartum into thinking you are cycling by retriggering the monitor every 20 days.  I read that the original recommendation had been to test once every 3 days postpartum so you probably could get away with that for a while. If you did that though, I think I would only DTD on days I tested.  If you are interested, check out their website.  There is also a forum there where you can ask questions.  They answer your questions by the next day, really a nice helpful site that way.  Here is the website with the instructions.

 

http://nfp.marquette.edu/sc_breastfeed_monitor.php 

 

Good luck deciding what to do!

 

 

 


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Old 07-27-2011, 07:10 AM
 
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Wow, you ladies are awesome!  That's exactly the info I needed.  My situation is that I'm just trying to be responsible by spacing births... in my heart I totally wouldn't mind being pregnant sooner rather than later, but I also want to give myself some time to recover from my last pregnancy and birthing.  DH and I spoke last night (after we read all your posts together) and we're probably going to do LAM at first, then start charting once I go back to work, assuming I continue to meet the LAM criteria prior to that point.  If we conceive, we'll both be happy so there isn't a point in trying to get the probability down to zero.  The statistics you provided were very helpful!

 

I'm going to look into a fertility monitor and the Marquette method.  I looked into it when we were looking for a method prior to getting married, but it seemed too expensive -- I like the ebay idea, esp since I'll have some time to find a deal before going back to work.  I'm a little nervous about mucous only because I didn't chart for a whole lot of time before getting pregnant (only 3 cycles), so I'm not confident in my ability to reliably evaluate my CM... I think after a year or so having something else to correlate I'll be a lot more confident. And my basals rise with the ambient temperature during the summer, leading to frequent "is it a hot day or am I Oing?" discussions with DH.

 

I'm using the 4th ed CCL book (the course was a bit too expensive for us).  Thanks for clarifying that LAM and ecological breastfeeding were two different things.  I hadn't realized CCL had a pp book/course.  I guess we'll start saving and see whether to spend the money on the course or on the monitor shrug.gif

 

Again, thanks for all your help!

 

Anka

 


hippie.gifwife to DH, new mom to babyboy.gif 7/4/2011.  femalesling.GIF familybed1.gif BFPChart2.gif cd.gif knit.gif

"I remember my mother's prayers and they have followed me.  They have clung to me all my life." -- Abraham Lincoln. 

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Old 07-27-2011, 07:45 AM
 
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Sounds like a good plan Anka.  For what it is worth, I started charting about a month before I went back to work postpartum and I think that was a good time.  My cycle returned about 3 months later.  I think I bought some time with pumping the first little bit.  My son wouldn't take the pumped milk though so after a bit I just dropped doing it and left my pump at work for those times if I get really full for some reason and need to pump some off.  Now, we nurse in the morning, when I get home from work and in the evening before bed.  That is usually a long feed with lots of comfort time. 

 

We don't have the CCL course here so I have the book and found it really useful.  I'm sure the course would have been nice to have though as well but I bet you will do well with the book and other information you read and find if that is what is available to you.  I also read Taking Charge of Your Fertility and liked that as well. I read a lot postpartum as I tried to sort out what I wanted to do, lol. 

 

Jodi


Mom to three great boys Michael (Sept/01), Carter (Nov/05) and Reid (March/10).

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Old 07-27-2011, 08:12 AM
 
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Oh, just thought I would update on my Lady Comp for temping.  It closed out my last cycle at midnight last night and puts ovulation for that last cycle on the same day as my charting.  With Ladycomp, it gives you prognosis during your cycle of when it expects you to ovulate.  It is based on cycle history etc.  It does however not give you green lights until after you do ovulate and it sees the temp shift.  When you start your next cycle, you test as normal and and it continues on but it also waits a few days before closing out the statistics for the previous cycle and then recalculates the previous cycle to update statistics in the monitor like average cycle length, avereage temperature shift etc.  At that point you can go back and see when the monitor thinks you actually ovulated.  I was curious to see what it would decide.  It was kind of neat to see what it would say.  So it took until the beginning of day 5 to update. 


Mom to three great boys Michael (Sept/01), Carter (Nov/05) and Reid (March/10).

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Old 07-27-2011, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Anka, I'm glad to hear you're getting more clarity in your situation.  Besides giving the mother's body a chance to recover, spacing babies can be important for breastfeeding, and a lot of people don't know this.  When a woman gets pregnant again, her milk supply often decreases or dries up completely around the beginning of the second trimester because the placenta inhibits milk production.  Some women have colostrum in the third (and maybe even the later second) trimester, but it is usually not enough calories for a young baby under a year old.  Some women are able to continue to breastfeed throughout pregnancy (often with some discomfort) but must supplement if their baby is young enough that s/he needs more calories than the mother can provide.  Some babies wean when the milk dries up, and some mothers experience enough discomfort that they choose to wean.  In our Western culture, with access to safe alternative infant feeding methods, this may not be ideal, but it is certainly doable.  I just wanted to make sure that you are aware of what happens as far as breastfeeding goes when you get pregnant in case you want to take that into consideration.  In many places around the world where people do not have access to clean water, a way to sterilize bottles and the resources to consistently afford formula, another pregnancy quickly after giving birth could easily be a death sentence for the child.  Without knowledge of fertility awareness or the use of other methods of family planning, ecological breastfeeding plays a very important role in the health and even survival of both mother and child because it normally gives adequate spacing.

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Old 07-27-2011, 06:43 PM
 
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I can add my experience.  Carter had just turned 4 when Reid was born but we were still nursing at that time although not a lot.  My milk did dry up but he continued to nurse for comfort.  Since he was older and at the age for weaning, this was fine and we just enjoyed our rock each night before bed.    Interestingly, when Reid was born, he quit the day he was born and told me it was Reid's turn now and that he was giving the milk to him.   It ended up being a very nice transition.  I had weaned Michael when Carter was born when he wasn't quite ready at 3 1/2 done a lot from parental pressure so did not want to do that to Carter.  It really is nice to have some spacing between kids so they each get their comfort time with mom that is all their own.  It also gives you time in between for your body to recover and be ready again.  I know our spacing is more than most and you don't need that long but I don't think my body would have been ready had my kids been spaced less than a couple of years apart so I think it is nice that ecological breastfeeding or LAM will give some natural spacing to help our bodies and mind be ready for the next little one to join our families.  Enjoy your little one and have fun planning your family.  It is so nice to have the tools so you can do what is right for your family, whether it be to have your kids closer together or further apart. 


Mom to three great boys Michael (Sept/01), Carter (Nov/05) and Reid (March/10).

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