Charting to Avoid/Fertilty Awareness November - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 136 Old 11-11-2011, 07:39 PM
 
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Speaking of postpartum charting...I'm having some pink on the TP when I wipe.  Does that mean I no longer qualify for LAM since I'm past the 56 day mark?  It doesn't make sense--we're bfing a lot.  I'm actually kind of freaked out...we DTD 6 days ago with some fertile-type cm, which I decided wasn't imporant since I was (supposedly) in LAM.  It couldn't be implantation bleeding, could it?  My MIL conceived 2mo PP while bfing, so I know it's possible.  Am I worrying needlessly or do I test in a few days?


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#62 of 136 Old 11-12-2011, 08:54 AM
 
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Does anyone know if there is a way to record a miscarriage on TCOYF software besides just saying menstruation? It keeps telling me to start checking my CM which clearly isn't going to happen because I am still bleeding.


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#63 of 136 Old 11-12-2011, 09:22 AM
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Welcome, Cassi!  I think that charting when fertility is returning while BFing is one of the hardest.  You do basically have to erase your previous cycle history because your body is different after having a baby, and this may be reflected in your cycles.  You made it through the return of your first PPAF, which is the the part that is the most unpredictable, so congratulations!  However, things could still be confusing for a while, and I've actually seen more surprise pregnancies in postpartum cycles 1, 2 and 3 than in cycle 0.  The set of rules you decide to use may be dependent on how confident you are in your CM and how important it is to you to avoid another pregnancy at this time.  When charting both temps and CM (any anything else you want to chart), it is usually not too difficult to tell when you are in post-ovulation infertility, but it is much more difficult before ovulation, and it can take a lot of patience, especially when you aren't sure if you're going to ovulate now or not for another month.  It's a lot easier when you have shorter cycles and just know that you'll be ovulating sooner or later, but when your cycles can be up to 2 months long, it's hard to cut yourself off after CD 5 (TCYOF) or CD 6 (CCL or NFPI) and then watch yourself not ovulate for 5 or 6 more weeks.  I know.  I've been there.

 

If you feel like you can trust your CM to provide you with enough effectiveness, you can rely on that.  I (and a lot of postpartum women) found that in the postpartum cycles, I was on the side of having a whole lot of CM, especially before ovulation, but something almost all of my pre-ovulation section of my cycle.  It helps to take detailed notes.  If you have the same color, amount, consistency, and texture of CM every day for 2 weeks, you can call that your Basic Infertile Pattern, but to be accurate, you have to take notes on all of those every day.  If you are having a difficult time with CM, it might help to take a class in Creighton.  They know the most about CM of anybody and could help you minimize the days you have to count as potentially fertile.

 

If CM is really confusing for you or you just want another sign you can check it against, you might consider looking into the Marquette Method.  They use the Clear Blue easy fertility monitor with a special protocol for breastfeeding mothers that has been shown to be very effective in helping mothers pinpoint their fertile days postpartum with rules to help prevent pregnancy, and it is turning out to be quite effective.  It can be combined quite easily with whatever other charting you are doing.  The only real downside to this method is the expense of the monitor itself and the continued expense and waste of non-reusable urine test strips.

 

Pregnova, it's actually surprising how much gluten intolerance can interfere with fertility.  If you are exposed to gluten when you have gluten intolerance, it can really mess up a lot of things in your gut and interfere with the absorption of all the nutrients you need for all the rest of your body's processes.  Fertility is particularly sensitive to nutrient deficiencies.  Cassi, I would actually recommend Marilyn Shannon's book "Fertility Cycles and Nutrition" for tips on how to improve your cycles with nutrition.  It's harder when you're breastfeeding because you can't tell if your cycles are crazy because your baby is nursing so much or because of nutrient imbalances, but when you aren't nursing, nutrition can help a lot with making your cycles much more regular and easier to understand.

 

Mt_gooseberry, 6 days would be pretty early for implantation bleeding.  Most resources I have seen say that any spotting means that you should consider yourself no longer in LAM.  This website, which I regard as a pretty reliable source, says 2 days in a row of spotting excludes you from LAM, but I would be careful.  From my own personal experience (granted, I had been excluded from LAM for over a year due to my child's age and solids consumption), I had one day of spotting about 1 month before my first postpartum ovulation.

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#64 of 136 Old 11-14-2011, 10:16 AM
 
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Nicole-  

Congrats and blessings!  It's a housefull, isn't it?  Does your boy attend school?  I'm doing some laid-back homeschooling, and due to his personality, hesitate to put him in school until he's a little more patient, mature and able to listen better....

 

Pregnova-

Yes, gluten-intolerance can lead to infertility, chronic miscarriages, and birth problems.  because it is an autoimmune disorder, the body has many terrible reactions, some gastro-intestinal, some vitamin and mineral deficiencies, and often, emotional and mental problems.  For many women, the body shuts down the reproductive system b/c the rest of the body is busy fighting off the very food that is supposed to be nourishing it.  It's also related to rheumatoid arthritis (also autoimmune), eczema, adhd, schizophrenia, and about 170 other chronic disorders.  

 

JMJ-

 

Thanks so much for all of it!  I really appreciate all the information.  I'll definitely look into the book.  Is it traditional foods?  I'm curious...  I work with the local WAPF chapter in our area and have come a long way with using food to heal my body and keep my kids healthy.  The more resources, the better!

 

 

Thanks ladies!

Blessings and peace-

 


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#65 of 136 Old 11-14-2011, 11:51 AM
 
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Hi all!  I haven't been very active because I cannot for the life of me get back into the charting groove.  That is bad--because I am now on CD33 of my 2nd pp cycle (two AFs so far)....and I have no idea if/when I Od. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say maybe CD17.  I know it was later because I remember being surprised-ish by some fertile CM continuing after CD 14/15 which is my more normal O time. We did use p/u during  my fertile period, but we all know it's not 100%. An HPT was - yesterday evening.

 

SOOOOOO....I am sweating this out :) 


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#66 of 136 Old 11-14-2011, 12:57 PM
 
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Fascinating info Cassi...

 

So, I finally got what I think was a decent temp for myself although I've been counting the previous temperatures. My DP is up all hours of the night thanks to his work and his innate Night-owl-ness, so lately, I've been having some difficulty with the whole staying asleep for four hours prior to a temp because he chooses to go to bed near two hours from my wake time which often wakes ME up...although not near enough to think about temping. So...sigh. But, I've talked to him about it, and he's been trying to be both quieter and less in our room if I'm sleeping, so last night I got a good sleep and a temp. that fits better. 

 

One weird question though. I'm having lots of CM. It's not stretchy. And for the two days prior to this, I called it 'sticky', but today it's very wet/slippery and creamy? But...judging off of CM and a bit of cramping I had, I'm nearly positive I've already O'd. So...why this sort of CM now? Oh, I'd be at CD 34 counting the first day of red bleeding with my miscarriage as CD 1. 


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#67 of 136 Old 11-14-2011, 01:27 PM
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JMJ-

 

Thanks so much for all of it!  I really appreciate all the information.  I'll definitely look into the book.  Is it traditional foods?  I'm curious...  I work with the local WAPF chapter in our area and have come a long way with using food to heal my body and keep my kids healthy.  The more resources, the better!

 


That is an interesting question.  In some ways, it's an interesting hybrid.  I actually feel pretty good about recommending it to people, regardless of their dietary philosophy (though as a warning to vegetarians, she does not believe that a vegetarian diet is good for fertility, though I would still encourage you to read it for ideas on nutrient-rich plant foods and specific nutrients to target, and most of what she recommends is plant-based)  At first glance, it is very politically correct: see her Daily Food Goals chart here, but as you get deeper, you find that she sees a lot of things similarly to the WAPF.  I follow a TF diet myself and find it to be a very helpful resource.  I have some issues with her recommendations for PUFA's, though she does make comments about avoiding processed oils.  Make sure you get the 4th Edition since there have been a lot of changes, and Marilyn Shannon has obviously moved much more TF since the publication of the last edition.  For example, she has been convinced by the evidence that soy is not good for fertility and recommends avoiding it (except this apparently doesn't include soy oil), and she has replaced most of her praise of safflower oil with much more of an emphasis on healthy saturated fats including full-fat dairy.  She recommends fewer grains and gives lots of recommendations for choosing more nutrient-rich options.  There's something in it for everybody, regardless of where they're at to give ideas for small ways to make improvements.

 

As a TFer myself, I would still go with the WAPF recommendations for food preparation and choices (soaked/sprouted/fermented grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds, grassfed/pastured animal products, raw/cultured dairy, inclusion of ferments, etc).  Marilyn Shannon doesn't really get into that, though you can easily select and prepare the foods she recommends according to WAPF principles.  As far as food groups are concerned, I think that her dietary goals are a good deal better than the food pyramid for getting the nutrients that you need (besides the PUFA's), though I'm not convinced that every person should be eating the same ratio of food groups since all our bodies are different.  It is important to make sure we're eating nutrient-rich foods and getting enough nutrition.  For the most part, though, I would go with the WAPF recommendations on overall nutrition, though, especially if you are seeing positive results from that kind of diet.

 

The real importance of this book comes not in the overall dietary philosophy, but in the ability to connect fertility issues with nutritional solutions.  She gives ideas for what might help with PMS, heavy bleeding (including recovering from miscarriage), cramping, thyroid problems, PCOS, yeast, luteal phase deficiency, miscarriage, birth defects, male infertility, etc.  She offers a variety of ideas on each, and some, I don't think are the best (such as she recommends iodized salt before recommending seaweed for hypothyroid issues, though kelp does make it onto her list of ideas), but many are quite compatible with a TF diet, and she gives you an idea of what nutrients you may want to target if you are experiencing any of these problems.  She pushes supplements a little (a lot) more than I would.  (I think that following a TF diet reduces or eliminates the need for supplements, a big part of what attracts me to that dietary philosophy) though if supplements are necessary, she has some good ideas, and some of her recommended supplements are natural or food-based.  I was never more happy to have this book on my shelf than when I had a friend who had a miscarriage with heavy bleeding that left her in the ER, and I knew exactly what foods to bring her to help her recover.

 

As a TFer, I would also recommend Nina Planck's "Real Food for Mother and Baby."  This is most definitely a book from a Traditional Foods perspective that gives advice on a preconception diet through pregnancy, breastfeeding, and weaning to solids.  I think it's stronger on the preconception and pregnancy parts, but good throughout.  Another one that I am currently reading and enjoying right now is "Mother Food" by Hilary Jacobson.  It's a TF perspective you don't see as much, exploring traditional nutritional ways to help mothers to have a good milk supply.  It's emphasis is on soaked/sprouted grains and legumes (different than many other TF sources) and lactogenic herbs and spices.  It's a different take on TF than the WAPF, but it's pretty consistent with what Dr. Price found in his travels, that in some cultures, there was quite a great emphasis on certain grains, and those were given to lactating mothers.  If grains are a problem for you, there are still some great ideas in that book on herbs, etc that are good for preparing for and maintaining a good milk supply.
 

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#68 of 136 Old 11-14-2011, 02:13 PM
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PinkBunch, it's likely you ovulated later than you think.  I know that there are some cases of women who don't get positive pregnancy tests by a couple weeks after ovulation, but for most women, if their period is truly missing and not just delayed, a preganact test would likely show up positive.  These early breastfeeding cycles can be pretty crazy.  I'm guessing that your body tried to ovulate around the time that you think you ovulated, but that ovulation was delayed even more than that.  If you start actually charting, that might give you more information.

 

Pregnova, since your chart is a little bit light on information, we can't be sure of anything, but what it looks like to me is that you ovulated around CD 27ish.  When you started temping, I know that relative temps are much more important than absolute temps, but it would be very uncommon to have temps in the 98.2-98.5 F range before ovulation, so I'm guessing you did actually ovulate by then.  If we are accurate on your time of ovulation, I would guess that the CM that you are describing is related to your period getting ready to start.  A period is caused primarily by a drop in progesterone.  Progesterone has the effect of maintaining the uterine lining, raising your temperature, causing the cervix to close, and the mucus in the cervix to create a plug that makes it impassable to sperm (among other things... this is quite a simplification).  Many women experience a little bit of more-fertile looking CM in the day or 2 before their periods, a sign that the progesterone is decreasing and the mucus plug is coming loose.  Usually, your temperature also drops about the time your period starts, though it's not always exact.  If we are right about when you ovulated, you are showing some signs of Progesterone deficiency.  Spotting in your LP and a temp drop only a week after ovulation are little signs that your Progesterone may not be where you want it to be.  Do be aware that the alternative theory is that you have not ovulated yet, and your body is gearing up to ovulate, so if you are trying to avoid pregnancy, I would assume that you could be potentially fertile.  (If this is the case, the high pre-ovulation temperatures could be an indication of hyperthyroid, though we would need more cycles to give us more information before we would jump to that conclusion.)

 

Infojunkie, you've been quiet.  I've been following your chart with great curiosity.  My breastfeeding amenorrhea charts did that sometimes too where it was obvious that my body tried to ovulate, and I even thought that it did for a couple days, but it seemed odd, and the temp rise just didn't hold.  It's a good example of why we wait for 3 days of temp rise and 4 days of CM dry up (more or less by different rules) to call ourselves infertile.

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PinkBunch, it's likely you ovulated later than you think.  I know that there are some cases of women who don't get positive pregnancy tests by a couple weeks after ovulation, but for most women, if their period is truly missing and not just delayed, a preganact test would likely show up positive.  These early breastfeeding cycles can be pretty crazy.  I'm guessing that your body tried to ovulate around the time that you think you ovulated, but that ovulation was delayed even more than that.  If you start actually charting, that might give you more information.

 

Oh, I am thinking that I definitely ovulated later. This is eerily similar, though, to when I got pg with DD2 who, while we did try to get pregnant that cycle, was conceived after my 3rd pp AF. I ovulated around day 17-19 with her, and I got a BFN at day 30. I know I am fretting unnecessarily, and I did have longer cycles when my fertility returned with both of my other kiddos. This just confirms for me that I need to get back on the ball PRONTO.  Thanks :)


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#70 of 136 Old 11-14-2011, 03:56 PM
 
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Wow JMJ, you are a wealthy of knowledge. I'm so glad you've stuck around even with a baby on the way! lol

 

I did think that the spotting was probably a bad sign as well. I think for the next cycle, I might go back and re-read what you said about the various nutrients/vitamins that can help improve progesterone. Any particular reason outside of nutritional deficiency that I should have issues with progesterone? I'm young, and I like to think that our bodies should work efficiently without medical assistance (in this case thinking progesterone supplements) if nutrient needs are met. 

 

We eat a high protein diet. Very little in the way of grains or wheat or flour, although if it ends up in the house, then I have a hard time restraining myself. I also 'try' to have a green smoothie a day with a banana, an orange, a cup of various berries, and a bunch of fresh Kale or Spinach. (I was better with this before my miscarriage, but I've been trying to get back onboard this past week or two) I drink a cup or two of green tea a day, and cut out coffee completely with the last pregnancy. I also have found that I am reacting weirdly with alcohol ever since the miscarriage...I seem to 'feel' "drunk" with literally only a swallow or two, so I haven't had any in a few weeks although I did ordinarily drink a glass or two several times a week. 

 

 

 

 


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#71 of 136 Old 11-15-2011, 05:53 AM
 
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JMJ - thanks for checking in ! I have been quiet because I suppose I've just been still sitting around waiting to see if I'll ovulate. I thought for sure I ovulated on CD 45...and then on CD 46 my cervix immediately went low, firm, and closed, CM dried up and temps went up for 2 days, but then they dropped again so apparently not.

 

And then today and yesterday the little boy has made sleeping reaaallly difficult.  I've had bad, disturbed sleep for 2 days so I didn't count the temps.  So this chart is really long :-/
 

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Infojunkie, you've been quiet.  I've been following your chart with great curiosity.  My breastfeeding amenorrhea charts did that sometimes too where it was obvious that my body tried to ovulate, and I even thought that it did for a couple days, but it seemed odd, and the temp rise just didn't hold.  It's a good example of why we wait for 3 days of temp rise and 4 days of CM dry up (more or less by different rules) to call ourselves infertile.



 

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#72 of 136 Old 11-15-2011, 06:06 AM
 
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Here's my chart: http://tcoyf.com/members/kat216/charts/default.aspx

 

I thought for sure I would ovulate (even got a positive OPK!), but now it looks like it didn't happen. guilty.gif I know I should be patient with my first cycle off of the ring, but I was getting excited that it looked so normal!


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#73 of 136 Old 11-15-2011, 07:17 AM
 
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Here's my chart: http://tcoyf.com/members/kat216/charts/default.aspx

 

I thought for sure I would ovulate (even got a positive OPK!), but now it looks like it didn't happen. guilty.gif I know I should be patient with my first cycle off of the ring, but I was getting excited that it looked so normal!



My first cycle off the pill was confusing. I thought for sure that I had O'd on CD11. Seriously most of my signs were pointing to O, except a thermal shift. I didn't end up O'ing until CD24. Then I only had a 4 day LP. You can check it out if you want. It is cycle 1 on my chart. Here is the link: My Chart. Hopefully it works. If is doesn't there is also a link on page one.


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#74 of 136 Old 11-15-2011, 09:03 AM
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Pregnova, I think very similarly that most things can be resolved through nutrition and self-care without medical care.  I also think that most of the problems that we have are nutritionally related, and I would add to that the overwhelming exposure to toxins and energies, though they are somewhat related to nutrition as well since good nutrition has the ability to assist the body in detox and repair/destroy damaged cells.  Pathogens can be a factor as well, as can genetic mutations, injury, etc.  The body can only take so much before something is knocked out of balance.  A lot of these things build up over time so that we see more problems in the elderly, but in today's society, it is quite possible to knock a system out of balance at a young age.  A lot of times, there is still a nutritional approach to healing, but it often has to go beyond just making sure that you're consuming your RDA of the right vitamins and minerals.  What if your body is not able to absorb and use them correctly?

 

I'm really not an expert on diagnosing and treating issues.  I know a lot more about maintaining good health than regaining it, except for the things that I know my family has struggled with.  Really, it's a personal journey.  We get clues from here and there, but we have to be the judge of what to try and what is helping.  Based on what you're describing, though, I think you might want to look into candida yeast.  Cravings for sugars/starches and strange effects from alcohol can be signs of a yeast problem, and it can wreak havoc in your gut.  There's a lot of perspectives out there, and some work better for some people and others for other people.

 

Infojunkie, it can be confusing sometimes to know what is going on.

 

kat216, that's the reason I dislike OPK's.  They catch all the times your body tries to ovulate, even if it doesn't actually make it.

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#75 of 136 Old 11-15-2011, 09:19 AM
 
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Wellll... AF arrived in full force this morning. Whew. Bullet dodged, and I will begin temping tomorrow and more diligently recording CM. We'll be avoiding at least until spring, but probably longer.


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#76 of 136 Old 11-15-2011, 09:44 AM
 
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I had my first Creighton follow-up last night.  This is a fascinating method, and I totally understand why they are so insistant on proper instruction.  It has given me so much insight into my gyecological health in just two short weeks.  At first I was going to temp in addition to Creighton, but now I don't feel it will be necessary.  I guess I'll decide when I start cycling again.  I've decided that I do like my instructor, although things started off a little rocky.  However, she sometimes gives me misleading information (I don't think she realizes how much research I've done on various NFP and contraception methods).  For example, last night she told me that condoms are only 70% effective.  Now, I'm no fan of condoms, and I know they don't have as high a user-effectiveness as many people believe, but according to every source I've seen, effectiveness is more like 85% for one year.  There's quite a bit of difference between 70 and 85%.  She also said pre-ejaculate is more likely to cause pregnancy than ejaculate, so withdrawal is as uneffective as completed intercourse.  I am not a fan of withdrawal, either, but I am not sure that is accurate.  It kind of bothers me when people exaggerate the pitfalls of contraceptive behavior in order to promote NFP.  NFP stands on its own merits without having to spread inaccurate info on other methods, no?  I won't even start on her opinion of the role of breastfeeding as a way to postpone pregnancy, or how disparaging she is of other NFP methods.  I'm more of the "use the method that is best for you and switch as need be" kind of NFP user, myself.  In any case, I do highly recommend Creighton...having to go throught the hassle of instruction is well worth it!


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#77 of 136 Old 11-15-2011, 10:58 AM
 
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kat216, that's the reason I dislike OPK's.  They catch all the times your body tries to ovulate, even if it doesn't actually make it.


Yeah, I knew that was a risk, but I thought it might be a good way for me as a newbie to corroborate my other observations. *sigh* We'll see what happens for the rest of this month, I guess.

 

gooseberry, that sounds really interesting! It's amazing how much you can learn about what your body is telling you!

 


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#78 of 136 Old 11-15-2011, 05:48 PM
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mt_gooseberry, I also have a problem with the fact that there can be in-fighting between methods.  It's definitely been a barrier to my desire to become a certified NFP instructor.  They also have to repeat the statistics they're told rather than doing their own research, and I've been surprised several times by the ignorance instructors have of the other methods that they are criticizing.  Honestly, each method has some distinct advantages and disadvantages, and some methods work better with different people's philosophies and bodies.

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#79 of 136 Old 11-15-2011, 08:04 PM
 
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Hi everyone! I'm very new to charting - my baby is 2.5 months old and I've had almost continuous (but changing) mucous since she was 8 weeks old. She is nursing exclusively and her 20 mo old sister is nursing 6-8x a day as well. We learned the symto-thermal  method when I was pg with this baby but it doesn't really work with the kind of mucous I'm having and a couple friends recommended Creighton, so I contacted an instructor today and hopefully we can start that soon. I think part of the problem might be how stressed I've been recently - DH lost his job a few weeks before the baby was born, we had visitors shortly before and after the birth (and she was born only 36 hrs before our scheduled induction, a little too close for comfort), then DH got a new job in a city 1.5 hrs away and we moved when the baby was 6 weeks old. On top of that, I have PPD and hip problems that I'm starting PT for tomorrow. Does anyone have experience with stress interfering with fertility signs? I find it kind of hard to believe that I'm actually fertile already because one, I didn't get pregnant with #2 until #1 was 8.5 months old (we weren't avoiding, I didn't have a period first either), and two, I have two children nursing this time instead of one. But, who knows? I'm not sure I've ever been so confused by anything in my life before, lol. I don't have a chart linked up since I've been using a calendarized excel file as my chart (the charts I was given were entirely inadequate for how much I need to write down). I could probably write a book with all the questions I have but I think I'll leave it at this for now - looking forward to sharing this journey with you all.

 

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#80 of 136 Old 11-16-2011, 02:03 AM
 
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Hi everyone. I have decided to try 'shortcut charting' now that I have been charting since February (missing out a couple months when I was between relationships but consistent other than that). Anyone else doing that? In the TCOYF book, it's basically only taking temps from day 6 of your cycle onwards until you get three consecutive days of a clear temp rise, then stopping and only taking temps again after your next period. With the CM, you check it from day 6 until you know you've had your Peak Day. I don't seem to show a clear pattern with CM really but my temps have become a bit more consistent, and I've been ovulating between day 16 and day 18 for the past few months. To my surprise I already have EW CM today and it's only day 8 of my cycle - have only encountered that once before, day 9 in an April cycle.  I've been reading the nutrition stuff with interest. I follow a vegetarian wholefood diet so wouldn't have thought there'd be many problems but interesting to read that perhaps a vegetarian diet isn't the best for fertility - so could make fertility signs less clear and harder to follow perhaps. Although i had no problem getting pregnant with DS on that diet, and wasn't even trying ;)  Here's my chart http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/33d5d5 although obviously the data on it is limited due to only temping from day 6. 

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#81 of 136 Old 11-16-2011, 05:20 AM
 
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Meh, I typed up a big question and lost it. Lets try this again!

 

I chart with software on my computer, and don't know how to post my charts, so bare with me while I try to type this out: My temps the past 2 cycles (the only ones I've charted since having DD, there have been 4 total) are lowish. 97.3-97.5 pre-O, with random temps WAY lower (96.8). My coverline last cycle was 97.6, with post-O temps around 98.4. After a 50 day cycle (13 day LP), I got a normal period. It lasted 6 days, with another 2 of spotting when it was done. I normally have long cycles, long/heavy periods with spotting (I think I have PCOS, never diagnosed though). My temps don't normally drop below the coverline until after my period ends.

 

As soon as my period was over, I went on a mini-vacation for 3 days in another time zone, and didn't worry about temping. Since coming home, my temps are higher than they have been (97.9ish). The only things that are different are that I have been trying to be much better about remembering to take my vitamins (prenatal, Vit. D and fish oil). DD stayed home on the trip and I think is weaned (hasn't nursed in a week, but was down to only nursing once or twice a day for less than 5 minutes total).

 

Could stopping breastfeeding be causing higher temps this cycle?


Jen - 29, part-time LDRP RN and Birth Consultant. DH - 33. Married since 2006. brokenheart.gif 3/09. DD 2010.  Expecting a surprise new one in May 2014!

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#82 of 136 Old 11-16-2011, 07:04 AM
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Welcome, mlfc15.  That is the hardest, when CM seems to be changing all the time.  Yes, it could be caused by stress, and stress and no sleep can also be tied to an early return of your period.  Sheila Kippley (breastfeeding researcher who defined ecological breastfeeding) experienced this herself with her cycle returning at about 4 months while she was breastfeeding ecologically but under a lot of stress and losing a lot of sleep trying to get the manuscript of "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing" out the door.  Our cycles are very sensitive to stress.  I do second the idea of getting with a Creighton instructor because the Creighton people do know more than anybody about crazy CM, and they'd be able to do the best job of helping you know what to do with it.  You might also consider looking into the Marquette Method.  It uses the Clear Blue easy fertility monitor to help you judge your fertility.  It can get expensive between the cost of the monitor itself and the continuing cost of the urine test strips (Before your first period, it requires you to test every other day), but it is very objective and could really help to reduce the need for abstinence in your current situation, when everything seems so subjective.

 

Devaya, most people I know who have charted successfully a long time and are not in a situation where they are changing a lot of things do decide to take some shortcuts.  I would recommend at least 6-12 cycles of charting before you do just so that you can get a really good idea of what your cycles are doing before you start making the assumptions about your cycles needed for shortcut charting.  I personally like staying in the habit of charting just so that I don't forget to chart when I'm supposed to, but that's just me.  I definitely don't make a whole lot of extra efforts to make sure I don't sleep late, though, when I know I'm infertile.

 

As far as vegetarianism is concerned, most of the people I have read who focus on nutrition and fertility have come to the conclusion that women have fewer fertility problems if they consume at least a small amount of animal products.  Fish, eggs, and full-fat dairy tend to be most recommended.  Many also express concerns about unfermented soy products such as soy "milk," tofu, and imitation meats.  Fermented soy such as tempeh, miso, or naturally fermented soy sauce do not have the same problems.  The main nutritional concerns are preformed Vitamin A, Vitamin B12 (Many women are deficient, and it only comes from animal products.), and DHA (While most women can convert it from ALA, you'd need a lot of ALA, and some women have a difficult time making the conversion.).  Preformed Vitamin A and Vitamin B12 are both present in a vegetarian diet but not a vegan diet without supplementation of Vitamin B12.  DHA is mostly just available from fish, though you can get adequate amounts from seaweed-based supplements.  Zinc is also a big concern for vegetarians and non-vegetarians.  Most people do not eat enough of the foods highest in zinc, and most of those are animal foods (shellfish, liver, pumpkin seeds, though you'd have to eat a lot of pumpkin seeds to get enough zinc).  In summary, a vegetarian diet really needs to be thought through very carefully as far as fertility is concerned.  Any good diet is much more about what you ARE eating than what you ARE NOT eating.

 

JenRN, I wouldn't be too concerned about those temps.  It's when your CL is WAY low or WAY high that you start worrying.  I'm not sure if stopping breastfeeding would have an effect on changing your temps like that, but it's possible.  The dietary changes could also be a factor.  If you are concerned about PCOS, check out Marilyn Shannon's chapter on it in "Fertility Cycles and Nutrition."  She has a lot of good ideas there.  I've also heard of a lot of people having success treating PCOS on a low carb or slow carb (reduce or eliminate flour/sugar) diet with nutrient-rich whole foods.

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#83 of 136 Old 11-16-2011, 11:35 AM
 
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JMJ - it's funny you mentioned that tidbit about Sheila, I've read her book twice and I was just recalling the story about her own early return to fertility in the middle of the night last night when I found some substantial amounts of pinkish/brown blood on the TP during my nightly bathroom trip. I haven't had anymore, and I seriously doubt I've ovulated so I guess it must just be breakthrough bleeding after my body's several attempts to ovulate.

I was reading through this thread before I joined and was intrigued by the traditional foods diet and the book "Mother Food", especially since I've had a little trouble keeping up my normal milk supply this time with all the stress. Do you think the book might be helpful?

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#84 of 136 Old 11-16-2011, 01:11 PM
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mlfc15, spotting is definitely a sign that your fertility is at least trying to return.  A traditional foods diet is not all one kind of diet.  Basically, it's any diet based on what different cultures ate (and how they prepared those foods) to sustain their health before refined/processed foods and without supplements.  There is sort of a singular diet proposed by the Weston Price Foundation, but really, TF diets are as varied as the cultures they encompassed.  In general, it encourages things like soaking grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds (or some TF diets cut out grains and legumes completely), consuming naturally fermented/cultured foods and drinks, choosing grass-fed/pastured animal products, raw dairy (or no dairy in some cases), and eating traditional fats (including naturally occurring saturated fats) with an emphasis on balanced omega-3 vs. omega-6 fats.  I won't get into too many more details since this thread is focused on fertility, but there is a Traditional Foods forum further down the list here on MDC.

 

As far as milk supply is concerned (again, if you need more information, there are some breastfeeding forums here that would be a better place to go into a lot more detail), I think that doing what you can to lower your stress and making time to relax and nurse your children, especially if you can take a daily nap with one or more of them as many days as possible, will probably do the most for your milk supply.  I don't think it would be a bad idea, though, to incorporate some more lactogenic foods and herbs, and "Mother Food" is an excellent resource on that, especially the recipe section in the back that is designed with busy mothers in mind.

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#85 of 136 Old 11-16-2011, 01:13 PM
 
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Anyone know how long it will take an HPT to go back to negative after a miscarriage? It's been a week since my miscarriage completed and I got a pretty strong ++ on an HPT today. I wanted to start using my OPKs, but they won't be accurate until my hpts are negative.irked.gif


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partners.gif familybed2.gif, buddamomimg1.png, caffix.gif, large family lovin'SAHM chicken3.gif to my chicklets, Nicholas 9/05 ,Genevieve 1/08, Viviana 11/09 and Michaela 5/11. Plus three angel babies in Jesus' arms. Forever in my heart  angel.gif  7/10 (5.5w), angel.gif  11/11 (11w) & angel.gif 4/12 (8w)

 

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#86 of 136 Old 11-16-2011, 01:55 PM
 
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ButterflyMomma- I know when I was going through mine, I was stalking the Mothering archives for just that question. lol It seemed that a lot of women were thinking about two weeks, but some as long as 6 weeks depending on both how far along the pregnancy got, and the individual woman's body ability to process the HCG. 

 

For me, I ended up actually miscarrying at 8 weeks, 4 days, and I got my first negative test 19 days later. I still had a quantitative HCG count of 23 on that day, but it was low enough to test negative on a pee test. 

 

So, all this nutritional talk is getting me all excited again about the food we eat. Sometimes I get stuck in a rut with it, and it's absolutely fascinating to realize how important it all really is. I'm about to order that one, Fertility, Cycles, and Nutrition as it sounds wonderful!

 

In other bizarre, newbie charting news, I started checking my cervix yesterday. I felt it fine, it was low and firm. Today, I checked it at roughly the same time in the same squatting position, and there's no cervix whatsoever??? lol Does it really vary that much in just 24 hours? There's little to no CM...sticky to dry I'd say, so I'm still going with the thought that I ovulated a few days back. 


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#87 of 136 Old 11-16-2011, 05:22 PM
 
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Pregnova~ Thanks for letting me know. The baby passed at a little over 6 wks (by my chart I should have been 10 weeks along), but the miscarriage didn't complete until a bit over 11 weeks. So I guess I would have been 11 weeks along? I plan on testing once a week until I get a negative. My OB is not doing any blood tests, so a -- hpt is the only way I will know if the hormones are gone.

 

As far as your CP question. My experience has been the same. A huge change happening overnight, It should lower again when you are getting close to AF.


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partners.gif familybed2.gif, buddamomimg1.png, caffix.gif, large family lovin'SAHM chicken3.gif to my chicklets, Nicholas 9/05 ,Genevieve 1/08, Viviana 11/09 and Michaela 5/11. Plus three angel babies in Jesus' arms. Forever in my heart  angel.gif  7/10 (5.5w), angel.gif  11/11 (11w) & angel.gif 4/12 (8w)

 

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#88 of 136 Old 11-17-2011, 07:42 AM
 
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Hello,

 

I am hopping over from the TTC thread. We are CTA but wouldn't be devastated with a BFP. We are waiting now because I have a bad knee that seems to baffling the doctors. It fills up with 60 cc of fluid but my MRI and X-rays are normal and so is the fluid when they send it to the lab. No crystals, no gout, no arthritis of any kind, no white blood cells, etc.They have been giving me cortisone shots every 3 months and then draining it weekly when those fail. I'm going to another doctor, a specialist, tomorrow so I may be on here a short time or long time depending on what he says is the problem, if he can even figure it out. In the past I have used Creighton/Billings/Cervical Mucus method to TTC and TTA. I just started CP and BBT 2 days ago so I don't have much data on those. I use fertility friend for my online chart.

 

Our stats are: I am 24 and DH is 28. We had a stillborn girl, Macey, at 38 weeks in March 2010 and I got pregnant with DD, Claira Jae, 6 weeks later. I nursed DD for 4 months and she is now 9 months. I'm pretty sure I have only had 1 ovulatory cycle since stopping nursing which is the one I am currently on. I am CD 30. It seems that I ovulated around CD 13-15. My periods before pregnancy were 28 days and I O'd on day 14 consistently. I took 2 HPTs last Friday evening and both were negative.

 

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/ttc/


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#89 of 136 Old 11-18-2011, 07:39 AM
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Welcome, BaileyB.  I hope you and your medical team get your knee figured out soon so that you can be back on the road to TTC.

 

Pregnova, I'm not sure I've ever seen a "textbook" cervix chart.  I think for a lot of people, the cervix is a much less objective sign than CM and temp.

 

Butterflymomma, I hope you get your negative test soon.  In the meantime, your other signs should give you a pretty good idea of what is going on.

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#90 of 136 Old 11-18-2011, 10:37 AM
 
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Question.... in the TCOYF book, vaginal sensation is pretty important, and recorded separately from CM.  I don't know its emphasis in other NFP methods.  So far, this has happened to me a lot.  I'll get a tiny bit of decidedly creamy CM (like 1/4 teaspoon) externally, and that's it all day, but my vaginal sensation is nothing other than dry for the whole day.  Does that make sense? Would that be considered a "dry" day or do I have to consider it creamy and fertile? 

 

I'm on CD 52 of an anovulatory chart and I'm thinking life stress, as well as little boy's frequent nursing, is making for some confusing fertility signs.

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