Charting, Trying, Hoping TO AVOID: August 2005 - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 80 Old 08-06-2005, 10:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Now continued from July, it's the August 2005 CTA/TTA/HTA (charting/trying/hoping to avoid) thread.

Andrea just asked this question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony96
"Update" from me. I had checked out TCOYF revised from the library while I loaned my first edition out to a friend (who ended up not having time to read it unfortunately). Now I've turned in the book to the library and got my book back. So I'm "ready" for when my pill-period starts on Tuesday.

Although I can hardly call it a 'period' at all... I can seriously use a single pantiliner on each day and barely even need that. I'm sure some people have spotted heavier than my current 'periods' are. But anyway... should I just go ahead and use that as cycle day 1 just so I have somewhere to start?
Yup, I'd count the first day of bleeding as CD 1. Good luck charting!

And as for me, we are CTA indefinitely and I'm currently on CD 276 with no sign of AF yet. :LOL
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#2 of 80 Old 08-06-2005, 10:51 PM
 
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Hi everyone,

I've been charting for about 2.5 months now after coming off the mini-pill and am happy to say that my chart is beginning to look sort of "normal", finally. When I was on the pill I'd go from having 27 day cycles to 75 day cycles and everything in between! When I began charting my temp was completely all over the place every day, totally useless to make any predictions by. I'm now on cd15 and, so far this time, it's looking very textbook for a change.

Let's hope it stays this way!
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#3 of 80 Old 08-07-2005, 01:12 AM
 
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Hi! Still here, still not pregnant! :LOL Holy cow you ladies have some loong cycles going on there! MizLiz I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that your charting continues to go well and adenlilysmama, maybe we should start a pool to predict how long your cycle will go? Are you waiting for your first PP AF?

I am on CD11 and things seem to be going well but I am a bit nervous since this is my first 'real' CTA. We don't plan to TTC until this fall and I got my IUD out last month so I am really hoping that I will be able to interpret my chart correctly and not wind up pg earlier than planned.

Has anyone heard from CrunchyMamaToBe (who was going to start this thread)? I hope everything is well with her. I've been wanting to ask her about her sig too.

Oh, one last thing - can someone tell me how to share my FF chart so I can post here if needed? Thanks
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#4 of 80 Old 08-07-2005, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2toddles
Hi! Still here, still not pregnant! :LOL Holy cow you ladies have some loong cycles going on there! MizLiz I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that your charting continues to go well and adenlilysmama, maybe we should start a pool to predict how long your cycle will go? Are you waiting for your first PP AF?

I am on CD11 and things seem to be going well but I am a bit nervous since this is my first 'real' CTA. We don't plan to TTC until this fall and I got my IUD out last month so I am really hoping that I will be able to interpret my chart correctly and not wind up pg earlier than planned.

Has anyone heard from CrunchyMamaToBe (who was going to start this thread)? I hope everything is well with her. I've been wanting to ask her about her sig too.

Oh, one last thing - can someone tell me how to share my FF chart so I can post here if needed? Thanks
Hi ladies!

Yup, I am waiting for my first PPAF. Last time it came back at 9-10 months so I am continuously surprised by how long it's been this time! I started charting at 6 months PP so I'd have a few months of warning... now I've got a chart that's 9 months and still nothing! :LOL So if you start a pool I wouldn't even know what date to bet on! :LOL

Good luck CTA... that sounds like exactly what we did when we TTC'ed #2, and it went well for us. Were you charting with your IUD in? I did that for the last 1-2 months and found it helped me be pretty comfortable with CTA once we started for real. Hope it turns out that way for you too!

My FF chart is waaaay lapsed but I think if you go to the "sharing" tab then you look at your homepage setup and it shows you the web address of your chart. HTH!
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#5 of 80 Old 08-07-2005, 08:39 PM
 
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Hmmm, I am going to guess AF comes to visit you this October. Maybe she will come in time for you to PMS with all that yummy Halloween candy.

Last month's chart was my first and I got my IUD out 4 DPO. So I have had a little bit of experience with charting but I feel like I would be more confident if I had a couple month's worth of charts under my belt. Dh did order a bunch of condoms though, so when in doubt we always have those for the next few cycles. (And he ordered like 40 of them!! Hello, 40 condoms!? All for us? Isn't that just a little bit hopeful? :LOL)

And I figured out how to share my chart, thanks!
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#6 of 80 Old 08-08-2005, 04:03 AM
 
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#7 of 80 Old 08-08-2005, 01:40 PM
 
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Thanks, adenlilysmama for starting the new thread! I had the best of intentions, but... : My cousin emailed me on Wednesday to ask if her daughter could spend the weekend with us, arriving the next day! So I've been a bit distracted over here.

I'm on CD2 of what should be our last avoiding cycle! FH is leaving to do fieldwork in early September, so avoiding will be no sweat. When we're reunited in December, that'll be the end of avoiding for us!

Expat mama to my 7-year-old Halloween boy and my cheeky preschooler, who came before the midwife in January 2010... Gestating a new bean, debuting spring 2014!
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#8 of 80 Old 08-09-2005, 11:21 AM
 
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Today is Tuesday so it's CD1 for me. First cycle off the pill... I hope I don't mess it up too bad. :LOL

My temperature this morning at 6:00 am was 97.7. I technically haven't really started my "period" yet as of right now, but expect some spotting someitme today and for the next 3 days if this pill period is like my other 75 pill periods. (When I put it that way, it makes it seem like I've been on the pill for a VERY long time).

I'm nervous. And this week would have been my week of inactive pills which I don't take anyway, so I'm not even going to be "really off" the pill until this Sunday. So why am I nervous already?

Non-cycle news... DH's car died last night about 100 yards from home. It had been trying to die when he stopped for the past couple of days and we were going to have it looked at on Wednesday when we were both off. Well, now it won't start so wherever we take it we'll have to tow it. The battery is not dead though b/c the lights, radio, etc. work. When you try to turn the key, it just makes a high-pitched whining noise like the starter isn't turning or something. Hopefully it will be something that is easy and fairly inexpensive to fix. We do have money to fix it if it's not so inexpensive... but that was going to be my washer and dryer. Oh well.

Guess that is all for now. Talk to you later.

Andrea , child of God, wife of Tim , mama of L, B, J, J

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#9 of 80 Old 08-09-2005, 11:39 AM
 
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Well ladies, I have cycle news-- I'm pregnant. :LOL A lesson to be learned-- don't try to interpret your chart prematurely, even if it looks wild and crazy. Fertility Friend knows what it's talking about!

My husband has entirely lost faith in NFP. I don't think that's fair at all... but we've got several months to hash it all out. Have fun and good luck!

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#10 of 80 Old 08-09-2005, 01:52 PM
 
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congratulations eilonwy!!! wow!! you really were in the 2ww. i wish you a happy and healthy pg and hope dh comes around to the idea soon.

Mama to three sweet girls (a dramatic, chatty 10yo, a bouncy, dynamo of a 7yo, and a delightful, whimsical 3.5yo)
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#11 of 80 Old 08-10-2005, 01:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy
... don't try to interpret your chart prematurely, even if it looks wild and crazy. Fertility Friend knows what it's talking about!
: Mm-hmm, yes. Committing this to memory!

Congratulations! I hope you and your dh can get things smoothed out soon. Sometimes these little people decide to show up whether you are ready or not (hence our ds :LOL)!

Harmony96 - bummer about your car. Maybe it's the alternator? Whatever it is I hope you'll have some money left over for your W&D.

CrunchyMamaToBe - Moose Drool! That's by the same people that make Scape Goat Ale right? Are you in MT? I haven't had that stuff since I lived in Missoula a couple years ago. Mmm, memories!

No business to report here except that I think I am moving into my fertile stage so we are trying to behave ourselves...
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#12 of 80 Old 08-10-2005, 06:46 AM
 
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Wow wow wow, congratulations eilonwy!!! A very exciting surprise!

However... I must disagree with fertilityfriend's ability to interpret charts. The most common things I have seen are it calling ovulation based more on a temp dip than a consistent temp rise (fooling you into thinking you've ovulated and are therefore safe when you haven't ovulated and aren't safe yet) and calling ovulation is an annovulatory cycle. There really is no substitute for being able to interpret your own charts. Don't trust the software! And if ever in doubt, avoid doing the deed or use condoms.

[/stepping off soapbox now]

mama2toddles, I love moose drool! Sadly, we're not anywhere near MT. We were camping in the Cascades, in Washington when we got engaged (near where my family lives), but we live in the UK. Where the beer is generally not all it's cracked up to be.

Expat mama to my 7-year-old Halloween boy and my cheeky preschooler, who came before the midwife in January 2010... Gestating a new bean, debuting spring 2014!
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#13 of 80 Old 08-10-2005, 11:55 AM
 
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i need a refresher about the pre-O rules. i've been so regular for so long that tta has been easy. cd8 we start avoiding and i've been o'ing on cd13-14. last month i had ewcm from cd10 until i finally o'd on cd18. this month i'm cd12 with no signs of ewcm so i'm guessing i could be gearing up for another later than cd14 O. so when is considered safe after af and pre O? i seem to remember every other day until you start having cm, but is that right? not that i'm not excited for eilonwy, but i'd rather not follow in her footsteps, so please help us tta. btw, congrats again!!!

tia!

Mama to three sweet girls (a dramatic, chatty 10yo, a bouncy, dynamo of a 7yo, and a delightful, whimsical 3.5yo)
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#14 of 80 Old 08-10-2005, 01:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momtokay
i need a refresher about the pre-O rules. i've been so regular for so long that tta has been easy. cd8 we start avoiding and i've been o'ing on cd13-14. last month i had ewcm from cd10 until i finally o'd on cd18. this month i'm cd12 with no signs of ewcm so i'm guessing i could be gearing up for another later than cd14 O. so when is considered safe after af and pre O? i seem to remember every other day until you start having cm, but is that right? not that i'm not excited for eilonwy, but i'd rather not follow in her footsteps, so please help us tta. btw, congrats again!!!

tia!
TCOYF rules are that you start avoiding (abstaining or using a barrier method) as soon as you see fertile CM (for me this means the switch from sticky to creamy). But if you only have a few days of fertile CM before ovulation, then you may get yourself into trouble. Sperm can live for 5 days, so unless you regularly get 6 or more days of fertile CM before O, then this "Last dry day" rule isn't going to be reliable for you.

The Art of NFP has other rules with different names that I can't remember.

One is the 6 day rule: you are safe for the first six days of your cycle.

One is something like the 20 day rule: subtract 20 from the shortest cycle you've had in the past 24 (I think it's 24. May be more...) and that gives you your latest safe day. For example, if my cycles range from 27 to 34 days, I subtract 20 from 27 = CD7 is my latest safe day.

One is the Doering rule (I'm sure I'm spelling that wrong), which involves subtracting 6 from your earliest day of ovulation in the past X number of cycles (I can't remember if it's 12 or 24 - but you do need at least 6 cycles to use this rule). So if I have ovulated between days 14 and 20, I subtract 6 from 14 = CD8 is my last safe day.

We use the Doering + Last Dry Day. So we never go past CD8 (as I have ovulated as early as CD14, even though CD18-20 is more usual), but we will stop having unprotected sex earlier than that if I see creamy CM.

HTH!

Expat mama to my 7-year-old Halloween boy and my cheeky preschooler, who came before the midwife in January 2010... Gestating a new bean, debuting spring 2014!
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#15 of 80 Old 08-10-2005, 01:43 PM
 
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thanks!!! that is quite helpful! seems like we need to continue to avoid by day 8 if we want to be 100% safe. i was hoping to be able to sneak in a few extra safe days, but it sounds like we'd really be taking chances by almost all the rules. thanks again!

Mama to three sweet girls (a dramatic, chatty 10yo, a bouncy, dynamo of a 7yo, and a delightful, whimsical 3.5yo)
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#16 of 80 Old 08-10-2005, 04:04 PM
 
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#17 of 80 Old 08-11-2005, 03:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrunchyMamaToBe
One is the 6 day rule: you are safe for the first six days of your cycle.
I have ovulated as early as day five, and in fact I often ovulate within five days of CD 6 (CD 7-11). Everyone is different! :LOL

Quote:
One is something like the 20 day rule: subtract 20 from the shortest cycle you've had in the past 24 (I think it's 24. May be more...) and that gives you your latest safe day. For example, if my cycles range from 27 to 34 days, I subtract 20 from 27 = CD7 is my latest safe day.
This would drive me insane, as I've had 20 and 21 day cycles. :LOL

Quote:
One is the Doering rule (I'm sure I'm spelling that wrong), which involves subtracting 6 from your earliest day of ovulation in the past X number of cycles (I can't remember if it's 12 or 24 - but you do need at least 6 cycles to use this rule). So if I have ovulated between days 14 and 20, I subtract 6 from 14 = CD8 is my last safe day.
Another rule that would never have worked for me! I'm so glad that I didn't read this stuff before trying NFP!!

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#18 of 80 Old 08-11-2005, 10:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Another rule that would never have worked for me! I'm so glad that I didn't read this stuff before trying NFP!!
Eilonwy, what rules were you following? Not meaning to be rude or pick on you, but from looking at your pg chart, I can't guess, and none of the rules that I've read about seem to have been applied.

Again, without meaning to make an example (in a bad way) out of you, I think this is a good opportunity for avoiders to learn how to be better avoiders!

In defense of the NFP book, it's really useful and comprehensive, covering a lot of specific situations. It gives 'failure rates' of each of the different rules, and some (like the last dry day rule) work less well than others. When used correctly, NFP has a 2% failure rate. It's also pretty techinical and takes some time to get through (and a strong stomach for catholic dogma if you're not into that kind of thing).

Expat mama to my 7-year-old Halloween boy and my cheeky preschooler, who came before the midwife in January 2010... Gestating a new bean, debuting spring 2014!
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#19 of 80 Old 08-11-2005, 07:25 PM
 
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Since I'm asking for reminders, can I get a reminder of post-O rules as well? Are you "safe" from 4dpo until AF, that's what we've been doing, but I'm feeling like I could use a refresher now.

Also, with some of the "rules" and charts like elionwy's with o'ing between cd5 and cd11 and/or 21 day cycles, would you just have to abstain until after o to be safe? i'm feeling a bit confused now. And what about a short LP? I have had 24 day cycles, where I O'd on cd16 and then had an 8 day LP. Would I really be unsafe on day 4 if I haven't had any where I O'd before CD13? Ugh, maybe we need a refresher class or something.

tia yet again!

Mama to three sweet girls (a dramatic, chatty 10yo, a bouncy, dynamo of a 7yo, and a delightful, whimsical 3.5yo)
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#20 of 80 Old 08-12-2005, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Congrats Eilonwy! Sorry your DH is upset though.

There seem to have been a rash of surprise pregnancies both for people I know IRL and around here... not sure what's in the water! :LOL I wonder if there are statistics on how many people/couples have one or more surprise pregnancies? Seems very common.

I like all these reminders of the rules. I have been following anovulatory rules for so long that this is a good refresher.

Quote:
Since I'm asking for reminders, can I get a reminder of post-O rules as well? Are you "safe" from 4dpo until AF, that's what we've been doing, but I'm feeling like I could use a refresher now.

Also, with some of the "rules" and charts like elionwy's with o'ing between cd5 and cd11 and/or 21 day cycles, would you just have to abstain until after o to be safe? i'm feeling a bit confused now. And what about a short LP? I have had 24 day cycles, where I O'd on cd16 and then had an 8 day LP. Would I really be unsafe on day 4 if I haven't had any where I O'd before CD13? Ugh, maybe we need a refresher class or something.
Post-O rules... you are safe on the evening of the 4th dry day when it corresponds with a certain number of high temps as well, right?

And that point about a short LP is a good one, but then again you never know when your cycle can change. For instance, after my DS, I had a very short LP for a long time (about 8-9 days). So in my 27-28 day cycles, O was occurring on around day 20, with day 18 being the earliest. Then suddenly for no reason I O'ed on day 14... DD being the result, thank goodness we were TTC'ing! :LOL But anyway, I think the rules are very conservative to allow for times like that, and of course with TTA it's always best to err on the side of caution, right?
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#21 of 80 Old 08-12-2005, 12:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Post-O rules... you are safe on the evening of the 4th dry day when it corresponds with a certain number of high temps as well, right?
The FAM (TCOYF) rule is that you are safe the evening of the fourth day of dry-up + the third day of temperatures that are 0.2 above your previous six.

There are other rules set out in The Art of NFP, which basically say you need fewer days of dry up the stronger your thermal shift. The one that we use is three days of dry-up + three days of temps that are 0.4 above the previous six.

I would really recommend to anyone borrowing a copy of The Art of NFP from the library or even your local catholic church if you've never read it. It's a great resource and covers nearly every imaginable charting situation. Plus it has charts on which to practice your interpreting skills and charts where NFP failed and/or wasn't used correctly, so you know what to look out for.

Expat mama to my 7-year-old Halloween boy and my cheeky preschooler, who came before the midwife in January 2010... Gestating a new bean, debuting spring 2014!
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#22 of 80 Old 08-12-2005, 01:27 PM
 
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I looked for the Art of NFP in our library system. There's only one copy and it's three months overdue, plus there's already a hold on it should it ever get returned. Maybe I'll have to check out the local Catholic church. Thanks for the recomendation!

Mama to three sweet girls (a dramatic, chatty 10yo, a bouncy, dynamo of a 7yo, and a delightful, whimsical 3.5yo)
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#23 of 80 Old 08-12-2005, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the reminder, CrunchyMamaToBe! You are much more up on your rules than I am, it is great to have you on this thread!

I am at a point right now where I have a established my basic infertile pattern (BIP) of sticky mucus and as long as it continues we assume we are safe. Whenever I notice a shift to a more fertile creamy type of mucus we avoid/use condoms until I've returned to my BIP for 4 days. Anyone see any flaws in that logic?

Sometimes after we've DTD I worry a bit for the next week, watching for signs of more fertile mucus and hoping I don't O within the week. Logically I know that if we DTD on a dry/sticky day it is highly unlikely that the sperm could live even a day but I am a bit paranoid for a week anyway. I usually make sure DD nurses a lot at night for the next few days to keep O away! :LOL I don't feel like we are being risky, we are following the rules, but there's always that little nagging voice you know? At this point it is more likely I will O before AF (ie. no warning AF) but I also feel like it will take a long stretch of fertile mucus before my body is finally able to cross that hormone threshold and O, so it will be noticeable. Any thoughts on all of this? Are we playing it safe enough? I'd welcome any input.
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#24 of 80 Old 08-12-2005, 10:14 PM
 
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I had to use temperature and cervical position & mucous pretty much without the other little formulae. It actually worked very well, except for last month when my chart was all wacky and I subverted it. Anyway, we would consider day one safe, and then every day until the first change in mucous (usually from dry/sticky to creamy). The first creamy day was the last day we were "safe" and after that I'd use temperatures & position exclusively (because I often had fertile-looking mucous long after I ovulated). I invariably had a temperature dip when I ovulated (I know that not everyone does) followed by a sustained rise in temperature. We waited two or three days after the dip and after that we figured we were infertile again. And up until last month, it worked well. Last month my chart was whacky, but I had a dip and then two higher temperatures and thought that we were fine. On the third day, I had that super low dip and that's when I realized that we were pregnant. In other words, I didn't pay attention to my own rules as well as I should have, probably because I've got serious baby lust.

The rules you listed make perfect sense, if you don't have short cycles. This year my cycles have been longer (26-32 days) but earlier (when we were TTC BooBah) my cycles were very short, 18-22 days. In fact, when we started TTC BooBah, we missed several fertile cycles because I was counting days instead of taking temperatures or checking mucous. I was ovulating as early as day 5, usually between 5 and 10. I didn't think that my cycles were that abnormal, though, I thought that other people had really short cycles sometimes...

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#25 of 80 Old 08-14-2005, 03:44 AM
 
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rynna. Funny seeing you here. I've been bumping into you everywhere, and no, I'm not stalking you :LOL


I really need to be "on it" about my chart. I want to know all there is to know about this stuff. I just read through the thread and got a little summary of the "rules" of NFP. I really need a refresher.

I have some questions........ What time is best to take your temp in the morning? Do you just take it once per day? what does the temp mean, in relation to the temp on other days?
what do you do for "lube", if any, on the dry days of DTD?
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#26 of 80 Old 08-14-2005, 12:46 PM
 
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This morning I took my temp 3x, and it was different everytime I took it... 97.4, 97.3, 97.5... So what does that mean? should I just do an average of the three? I took my temp right after I got up, before breakfast. I am on my 4rd day of my period (so 4th day of my cycle, I guess).

I would like to get an online chart for *free*. Where would I find one that is really easy to use, simple and straightforward?

I think I understand now why I got pregnant last time:LOL I didn't think that you could O in the third week of the cycle, and I think that's what my body does sometimes, hence my DD#2.
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#27 of 80 Old 08-14-2005, 02:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by majazama
This morning I took my temp 3x, and it was different everytime I took it... 97.4, 97.3, 97.5... So what does that mean? should I just do an average of the three? I took my temp right after I got up, before breakfast. I am on my 4rd day of my period (so 4th day of my cycle, I guess).
I've only charted temps one cycle since my second, so I may be rusty, but I did it for a long time before my first. At any rate, if I remember correctly, you should take your temperature when you first wake up in the morning before any activity at all. Keep your thermometer right by your bed and don't even get up to go to the bathroom. Ideally you should take your temp at the same time each morning, but my understanding is that it being first thing in the AM before any activity is more important than the same time?!?

You can definitely O later than day 14. I am day 16 and just gearing up to O now, and my cycles are pretty regular. A lot of women O quite late in their cycles. So definitely watch your symptoms and temps instead of the calendar unless you want a third.

A lot of people use http://fertilityfriend.com/ for charting. I believe http://tcoyf.com/ charges for it's charts, but I'm not sure. Since I don't chart temps I just use paper charts. :

Good luck TTA!!

Mama to three sweet girls (a dramatic, chatty 10yo, a bouncy, dynamo of a 7yo, and a delightful, whimsical 3.5yo)
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#28 of 80 Old 08-14-2005, 04:06 PM
 
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Jaz-- you are stalking me! :LOL

I took my temperature first thing in the morning. It was very difficult at first, until someone here mentioned that they have their husband hand them the thermometer when he gets ready for work. Brilliant! I put the thermometer on top of Mike's alarm clock, and when he gets up to hit the snooze button, he brings it to me. Of course, we're not really charting much these days, as I sabotaged my chart and got pregnant... :LOL

You can ovulate at just about any point in your cycle!! I've heard of people getting pregnant while they have their periods, even, and my mother got pregnant with my little brother before her postpartum bleeding with me had finished.

Fertility friend is free and easy to use, although they do point out that it is a violation of their user agreement to use their software to CTA. It works, though-- I knew the day after Mike and I dtd that it was very likely that we'd concieved.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#29 of 80 Old 08-14-2005, 05:32 PM
 
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What's CTA?
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#30 of 80 Old 08-14-2005, 06:07 PM
 
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What's CTA?
Charting to Avoid PG.

Mama to three sweet girls (a dramatic, chatty 10yo, a bouncy, dynamo of a 7yo, and a delightful, whimsical 3.5yo)
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