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#181 of 271 Old 08-23-2008, 12:37 AM
 
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AF came yesterday... I PROMISE I'm temping this cycle!
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#182 of 271 Old 08-23-2008, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Definitely not. I need to figure out how to change the CL in Ovusoft. My post O temps are never below 97.4 and are usually above 97.7. It's just that my temps are so stable this cycle that any small increase looks like O.
Oh yeah. I just glanced at your chart and assumed those temps were 98.1, not 97.1. That is very low even for pre-O temps.

I just checked. If you go to the Edit button on Ovusoft, there's a thing for overriding calculations. If you click on that, you'll get a window that allows you to either set your own CL and O day or tell Ovusoft not to calculate it at all or not to start until after a certain date.

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#183 of 271 Old 08-23-2008, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here I go with the CM confusion again. I went straight from AF to sticky cm on cd8 and then possibly ewcm the very next day. I had one sort of small glob of clear, slippery, shiny cm on cd9 that was just a little stretchy. My vag sensation has either been cold or wet and slippery, never dry and not sticky that I can tell. Today, though, it seems to be either sticky or creamy. It's white and sort of creamy/watery and shiny. I have no idea how to record all of this. I seriously doubt I'm anywhere close to O so it's hard for me to believe I'm already having fertile cm. I really want to get this CM stuff figured out, though, so I can better predict being potentially fertile. I also decided not to check my CP this cycle because, when I do, I can't help also checking internal CM, which just confuses me more. I did check it last night, though, and it was LFC.

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#184 of 271 Old 08-23-2008, 05:53 PM
 
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I gave up on vaginal sensation. It was adding to the confusion. I'm pretty sure that TCOYF says to record the most fertile cm you have during the course of a day even if you have one blip of ewcm and the rest is dry. I would record it sticky (cd8), ewcm (cd9), and sticky/creamy (today). I know I get patches of more fertile stuff and so far my charts don't go o happy every time it shows up.

Blah, ovusoft is still insisting I o'd. I haven't been too gung ho about it (though I do still temp.) since I have decided to get an IUD (copper so I can still chart....info gee that I am ).

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#185 of 271 Old 08-23-2008, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I know I'm supposed to record the most fertile I see. It just doesn't make sense that I would go sticky, ew, then back to sticky/creamy. I can see it happening around cd14 and after but not this early in my cycle. I wish my body would follow the "normal" course.

So, let me ask you all this. When ttc, I didn't bother stepping up the sex until I had ewcm because it's so unlikely to get pregnant from sex before then. However, with cta the rules say you should consider yourself fertile and use whatever means you use to prevent as soon as you get any cm other than your BIP even though it's probably not fertile. Do you all do that? In other words, do you start to use protection as soon as you have either sticky or creamy cm or do you wait until you get ewcm?

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#186 of 271 Old 08-23-2008, 10:08 PM
 
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My BIP is creamy. Anything more than that we w/d. Because mine is creamy and there are so many variations of that I consider a thinner creamy to be the start of something more.

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#187 of 271 Old 08-24-2008, 02:13 AM
 
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My basic infertile pattern is sticky/sticky. As soon as I see creamy CF we immediately use a back up method.

Just for the record, creamy CF is fertile. It is not as fertile as EWCF, but it is plenty easy to get pregnant on creamy CF. I bet if you headed over to ovusoft or fertility friend, you could get dozens upon dozens of women to tell you how they got pg without ever having had EWCF. YOu are NOT safe on a creamy day unless creamy is your BIP.

Also, if you have creamy CF, and you have unprotected sex, and then the next day you get EW, you could easily, easily get pg. Creamy is not THAT inhospitable to sperm that they couldn't survive a day or so.

We're all grownups here (notice my caution to the wind BD on CD 10 with creamy), but someone who has unprotected sex on creamy days with a dry/dry or sticky/sticky BIP is just asking to eventually get pregnant.

And I just have to say, I sure wish my body would follow normal fertility patterns too. Never gonna happen. Oh well, I don't mind so much because it means my charts are always interesting.


And on that note, our AC is FREAKING fixed, and maybe now, with tomorrow's temp, I will finally be able to tell if I O'd somewhere in all this mess. Gah!

I'm Kellie :, married to Chris , and mom to one baby girl (7/12/09).
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#188 of 271 Old 08-24-2008, 03:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Sk8ermaiden View Post
My basic infertile pattern is sticky/sticky. As soon as I see creamy CF we immediately use a back up method.

Just for the record, creamy CF is fertile. It is not as fertile as EWCF, but it is plenty easy to get pregnant on creamy CF. I bet if you headed over to ovusoft or fertility friend, you could get dozens upon dozens of women to tell you how they got pg without ever having had EWCF. YOu are NOT safe on a creamy day unless creamy is your BIP.

Also, if you have creamy CF, and you have unprotected sex, and then the next day you get EW, you could easily, easily get pg. Creamy is not THAT inhospitable to sperm that they couldn't survive a day or so.

We're all grownups here (notice my caution to the wind BD on CD 10 with creamy), but someone who has unprotected sex on creamy days with a dry/dry or sticky/sticky BIP is just asking to eventually get pregnant.

And I just have to say, I sure wish my body would follow normal fertility patterns too. Never gonna happen. Oh well, I don't mind so much because it means my charts are always interesting.


And on that note, our AC is FREAKING fixed, and maybe now, with tomorrow's temp, I will finally be able to tell if I O'd somewhere in all this mess. Gah!
just wanted to chime in and say when we had our "oops" last year, I got pg with only creamy cm (no ewcm that cycle). I'm sure there must have been some ewcm up there some where and I just didn't see it.. so it is possible.

thank goodness your a/c is fixed. it's been hot as hades here lately.
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#189 of 271 Old 08-24-2008, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I know creamy is considered fertile or at least the start of the really fertile phase, as opposed to sticky being the start of the potentially fertile phase, if that makes sense to anyone but me. I don't seem to get creamy cm, though. I don't know. I think I don't know how to interpret cm except for dry and ew. If it's anything else, I can't figure it out. I can't tell the difference between sticky and creamy. I've never had cm like any of the pictures in TCOYF except for ewcm.

I'll reiterate, too, that I'm not completely opposed to getting pregnant any time. I don't have a desperate need for any more children like I did when we were ttc #2 and #3. However, I wouldn't mind having another child, either. I'm in the mindset of not trying but not really preventing. My dh wants to prevent. We have discussed it and I have been totally honest with him and he has agreed to use withdrawal. He says he understands there is always the potential that I will get pregnant. Since he is the one who doesn't want any more children it's his responsibility to prevent that from happening.

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#190 of 271 Old 08-24-2008, 01:41 PM
 
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I want to say though that in that section she says sticky will form peaks (often jagged on the edges) when you seperate your fingers whereas creamy won't really. That description helped me a ton. I rarely have a dry day and rarely have sticky days so I needed to know (when my BIP is out ) the difference so I could tell.

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#191 of 271 Old 08-24-2008, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I want to say though that in that section she says sticky will form peaks (often jagged on the edges) when you seperate your fingers whereas creamy won't really. That description helped me a ton. I rarely have a dry day and rarely have sticky days so I needed to know (when my BIP is out ) the difference so I could tell.
Can you tell me exactly where in the book that is? I just read the section on CF and checked the index and couldn't find that. Part of my problem is that I have very little CF at all. There wouldn't be enough to see if it formed peaks or not. Sometimes I do notice a little drop of white stuff in the toilet water when I'm using it. Do you suppose that is creamy or sticky?

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#192 of 271 Old 08-24-2008, 04:57 PM
 
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Can someone please explain BIP to me? I have read TCOYF and I guess I am still a little confused about it. Is is that each person has a pattern of CF before they ovulate that is consistent month to month? Thanks in advance for addition info!

Our beautiful baby girl arrived 2/17/2010
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#193 of 271 Old 08-24-2008, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Your BIP is the type of cervical fluid you have when you are not fertile. The norm is dry or nothing. In order to determine your BIP, you have to observe your CF for 2 weeks without interference from semen or anything else. If you have several days of sticky CF when you are not fertile, you can consider sticky your BIP. Then you are safe to have sex the evening of any sticky day. If you have continual days of creamy CF, that would be your BIP but you still have to consider yourself fertile.

I don't know if each person has the same pattern every cycle. I don't seem to have a normal pattern so I can't attest to that.

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#194 of 271 Old 08-24-2008, 06:57 PM
 
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Hi. This is my 3rd month of charting to avoid after coming off the pill and I have a question. The first 2 cycles were long but identical to each other. Temp shift day 30 and period day 37. So this time hubby and I had unprotected intercourse two days after my period finished. I figured I was safe but the next morning my temp was 36.5 which is above my normal coverline. and then it was 36.5 again the next day. It went back down to 36.0 today (the next day). Should I be worried or not? Is it normal to have random changes like that? The last two cycles I only went to 36.5 or over when I ovulated... Help.
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#195 of 271 Old 08-24-2008, 09:48 PM
 
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So, let me ask you all this. When ttc, I didn't bother stepping up the sex until I had ewcm because it's so unlikely to get pregnant from sex before then. However, with cta the rules say you should consider yourself fertile and use whatever means you use to prevent as soon as you get any cm other than your BIP even though it's probably not fertile. Do you all do that? In other words, do you start to use protection as soon as you have either sticky or creamy cm or do you wait until you get ewcm?
We generally use condoms when in doubt. My BIP is sticky, but since I'm I've had some random fertile patches and then going back to my BIP. We're coming up on Hannah's 1st birthday , so I'm thinking AF is just around the corner. With Jonathan, I think I got AF right after he turned 1 and then had it 3 times before we got again. I'm really hoping to avoid that this time around, since I'm trying to convince DH to let me get my MA!

28-year-old SAH/Homeschooling Mamma to DS5, DD3, DS16mo. Helpmeet to DH since 2003. TTC #4!
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#196 of 271 Old 08-24-2008, 09:52 PM
 
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Can someone please explain BIP to me? I have read TCOYF and I guess I am still a little confused about it. Is is that each person has a pattern of CF before they ovulate that is consistent month to month? Thanks in advance for addition info!
BIP stands for Basic Infertile Pattern, what your infertile CF pattern is.

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#197 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 09:12 AM
 
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Hi. This is my 3rd month of charting to avoid after coming off the pill and I have a question. The first 2 cycles were long but identical to each other. Temp shift day 30 and period day 37. So this time hubby and I had unprotected intercourse two days after my period finished. I figured I was safe but the next morning my temp was 36.5 which is above my normal coverline. and then it was 36.5 again the next day. It went back down to 36.0 today (the next day). Should I be worried or not? Is it normal to have random changes like that? The last two cycles I only went to 36.5 or over when I ovulated... Help.
I think it's fine. It's not possible to have a temp shift that indicates O 3 days into AF. Plus, there is the first 5 day rule which means you are safe.

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So, let me ask you all this. When ttc, I didn't bother stepping up the sex until I had ewcm because it's so unlikely to get pregnant from sex before then. However, with cta the rules say you should consider yourself fertile and use whatever means you use to prevent as soon as you get any cm other than your BIP even though it's probably not fertile. Do you all do that? In other words, do you start to use protection as soon as you have either sticky or creamy cm or do you wait until you get ewcm?
Yes, we do. We only consider the first 5 days safe and post O atm.

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Here I go with the CM confusion again. I went straight from AF to sticky cm on cd8 and then possibly ewcm the very next day. I had one sort of small glob of clear, slippery, shiny cm on cd9 that was just a little stretchy. My vag sensation has either been cold or wet and slippery, never dry and not sticky that I can tell. Today, though, it seems to be either sticky or creamy. It's white and sort of creamy/watery and shiny. I have no idea how to record all of this. I seriously doubt I'm anywhere close to O so it's hard for me to believe I'm already having fertile cm. I really want to get this CM stuff figured out, though, so I can better predict being potentially fertile. I also decided not to check my CP this cycle because, when I do, I can't help also checking internal CM, which just confuses me more. I did check it last night, though, and it was LFC.
That sounds like me too : I go right from AF to creamy. I also have those globs and record them as EWCM because they are very slippery. Does it look like lotion? Mine is textbook lotion but sometimes is more slippery or more watery. If it forms mountains when I separate my fingers then I would say it is sticky. I have to check internally. There are many times when I check on the outside and there is nothing then I check internally and there is tons of EWCM up there. It might be hard for us with PCOS AND breastfeeding to get anything normal with CM
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#198 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 09:43 AM
 
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Well, I guess this thread isn't the right place for me as of this morning - positive pregnancy test. It was a $1 from the Dollar General but there was no mistaking the second pink line. I am 12 or 13 dpo as I believe I O'd on cd 13 or 14. I'm going to wait and see if AF shows on Wednesday. If it doesn't, I guess I'll call my doc for a confirmation. Maybe I should do a digital test towards the end of the week to be sure?

I think I'm in shock even though I knew there was a chance of this.
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#199 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 10:01 AM
 
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Well, I guess this thread isn't the right place for me as of this morning - positive pregnancy test. It was a $1 from the Dollar General but there was no mistaking the second pink line. I am 12 or 13 dpo as I believe I O'd on cd 13 or 14. I'm going to wait and see if AF shows on Wednesday. If it doesn't, I guess I'll call my doc for a confirmation. Maybe I should do a digital test towards the end of the week to be sure?

I think I'm in shock even though I knew there was a chance of this.


tentative congratulations!
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#200 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 10:14 AM
 
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Thanks TexasPeach! By the way, I ravel!! username = sundaygirl (guess I should head over there and bump up the baby stuff in my queue!)
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#201 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 10:18 AM
 
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Well, I guess this thread isn't the right place for me as of this morning - positive pregnancy test. It was a $1 from the Dollar General but there was no mistaking the second pink line. I am 12 or 13 dpo as I believe I O'd on cd 13 or 14. I'm going to wait and see if AF shows on Wednesday. If it doesn't, I guess I'll call my doc for a confirmation. Maybe I should do a digital test towards the end of the week to be sure?

I think I'm in shock even though I knew there was a chance of this.
oooooo Congrats mama : : :

I know you were trying to wait a few more months but sometimes life has other plans for us. I had a feeling you would be announcing your pregnancy soon with the way your chart looked.
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#202 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Congrats Sundaygirl. I think those $1 tests are pretty reliable if you see an obvious pink line. If that's the case, I wouldn't waste money on another test. The docs around here do free pg tests. They do get evap lines, though, so if it's not pink, you might want to try another brand.

CanidFL ~ I never get globs of creamy cm. I have yet to see anything that really looks like lotion. I do sometimes get a tiny bit of white cm and is more watery than sticky. I assume that is my creamy cm. I have never had enough of any cm like that to see if it forms peaks. I consider it sticky when it's white and kind of clumpy. When I got globs of slippery stuff it's clear and jelly like so I know that's ewcm. I got another glob of it yesterday. We dtd without protection or withdrawal yesterday and the day before so I was afraid I wouldn't be able to determine CM but yesterday's was an obvious glob of ewcm, not semen. I haven't been having any cramps or pains the last few days so that's nice. I'll have the next week to try to figure things out better. No sex for us since my FIL will be visiting.

Betnybaby ~ I don't know what the thermal shift rules are for celsius. It's normal for me to have temps that go up and down. One or even two temps doesn't really mean much. I'd think you are probably safe since your temp went back down on the 3rd day. You need 3 consecutive days of high temps to confirm O. However, if your temp goes back up and stays up, you may be in trouble. There is something called a fallback rise where your temp goes up from O, then back down, then back up again and stays up. It usually drops the 2nd day, though, not the 3rd. You would be safe because of the First 5 Days rule if you period was not more than 3 days long. Can you share your charts?

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#203 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 11:34 AM
 
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We dtd without protection or withdrawal yesterday and the day before so I was afraid I wouldn't be able to determine CM but yesterday's was an obvious glob of ewcm, not semen. I haven't been having any cramps or pains the last few days so that's nice.
Hmmmm? Aren't you CTA? You DTD on fertile days....

I am getting sick of waiting to O. I have been doing OPK's this cycle. Yesterday there were 2 lines but the one was not dark enough for a +. I think I will O in the next few days.
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#204 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hmmmm? Aren't you CTA? You DTD on fertile days....
I don't think I'm fertile based on my past cycle history. I have only Oed before cd18 twice in 6 years of charting. Once was my first ovulation cycle after having ds2 and the other was when I took clomid. CD18 is very early for me, too. If I include all my charts in my stats, my average O day is cd25 with the mode being cd30. I'm only on cd12 now. I seem to always have what appears to be a build up to O on cd14 but then nothing happens. Plus, I don't get pregnant easily. DH and I have had to work really hard at it. I have to take lots of medication, metformin, low dose aspirin, mega doses of folic acid and progesterone, none of which I'm taking now. My age is a factor, too. I'm 38 1/2 so not exactly in my prime fertility time. I know none of that means I absolutely could not O now and get pregnant. Remember, though, that I'm not 100% committed to not having another baby. I wouldn't mind if I got pregnant, so I don't mind taking chances.

Maybe I should put a disclaimer in all my posts. If you absolutely do not want to get pregnant, don't do what I do.

I wanted to add that in addition to PCOS I also have a double mutation on my MTHFR gene, which interferes with getting and staying pregnant, too, and I'm breastfeeding around the clock. So, there are two more strikes against me getting pregnant.

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#205 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 03:14 PM
 
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Can someone check on something for me? I have an older edition of TCOYF

The first 5 days rule says that you are safe the first 5 days of your cycle IF you have a thermal shift 12 to 16 days before you bleed.

She does not go on to say if it applies to you if you have a LP shorter than 12 days.

Can someone check to see if she clarified that in a later edition? In my copy it's in chapter 9, natural birth control with out chemicals or devices
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#206 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 03:56 PM
 
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No, she doesn't.

The only kind of reason I can get as to why is that with a short LP, you might have thought you O'd when really you didn't.

I say if you know you're Oing, then use it.

Or you could just use the dry day rule.

I'm Kellie :, married to Chris , and mom to one baby girl (7/12/09).
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#207 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Can someone check on something for me? I have an older edition of TCOYF

The first 5 days rule says that you are safe the first 5 days of your cycle IF you have a thermal shift 12 to 16 days before you bleed.

She does not go on to say if it applies to you if you have a LP shorter than 12 days.

Can someone check to see if she clarified that in a later edition? In my copy it's in chapter 9, natural birth control with out chemicals or devices
Oh, hmm...I never thought of that. She does say that a 10 day lp could be normal and good. So, I'd guess that if you know you are Oing but just have a short lp, you'd still be OK for the first 5 days.

Sk8termaiden (and anyone who would like to answer) ~ I have a question. If you use protection from the very beginning of your potentially fertile phase (signified by sticky cm) even though your body doesn't seem to follow the normal pattern and your cycles are unpredictable, what's the point in charting at all? Why not just use protection your entire cycle except for maybe the first 5 days and dry days?

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#208 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 10:22 PM
 
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I don't think I'm fertile based on my past cycle history.
ok I didn't know all that other stuff. It makes sense as to why you are a little more relaxed about CTA. Plus, you wouldn't mind another if it happened. I wish I had the courage to know that I am probably safe the first 20 days or so but I am scared of getting pregnant right now.

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Sk8termaiden (and anyone who would like to answer) ~ I have a question. If you use protection from the very beginning of your potentially fertile phase (signified by sticky cm) even though your body doesn't seem to follow the normal pattern and your cycles are unpredictable, what's the point in charting at all? Why not just use protection your entire cycle except for maybe the first 5 days and dry days?
I chart because of the PCOS and to confirm that I am actually Oing. AND one day I hope that my charts turn into these amazing textbook charts and I can actually have dry days before O and follow all the rules while getting to have sex without a condom. But yes, most days I question why I do all this and drive myself mad with obsessing over when I am going to O :
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#209 of 271 Old 08-25-2008, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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ok I didn't know all that other stuff. It makes sense as to why you are a little more relaxed about CTA. Plus, you wouldn't mind another if it happened. I wish I had the courage to know that I am probably safe the first 20 days or so but I am scared of getting pregnant right now.
It's not really courage. I'd be a lot more careful if I absolutely didn't want another baby right now. I think, though, that because of all my trouble getting pregnant when I wanted to, I'm not willing to completely give up the chance of being pregnant again.

I can't remember how long you've been charting or how many cycles you have charted. I have 27 cycles charted so I have a pretty good handle on how my cycles work.

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I chart because of the PCOS and to confirm that I am actually Oing. AND one day I hope that my charts turn into these amazing textbook charts and I can actually have dry days before O and follow all the rules while getting to have sex without a condom. But yes, most days I question why I do all this and drive myself mad with obsessing over when I am going to O :
I feel like I have to chart because of the PCOS, too. I like to verify that I'm Oing and to have an idea of when I'll get AF. If I didn't chart, I'd have no idea when AF was on the way and that could be very embarassing. I'd drive myself crazy constantly wondering whether or not I was pregnant since I can go a month and a half or more without AF even though I am Oing. Also, if I didn't chart, the docs would tell me I'm not Oing because I'd never pass the cd21 progesterone test. As far as cta, the only time that it seems anyone can say they are absolutely safe, after O, is the time when I'm either not in the mood at all or I have such horrible cramps that there's no way I could have sex. So, knowing that doesn't make my sex life any better. KWIM?

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#210 of 271 Old 08-26-2008, 01:15 PM
 
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I can't remember how long you've been charting or how many cycles you have charted. I have 27 cycles charted so I have a pretty good handle on how my cycles work.
I have about 10 cycles charted now but I don’t feel I could make an average or guess. They are so different including O date, leutal phase length, etc.

I am going to go out on a limb and say I o’d yesterday or will today. My chart doesn’t show it yet but I feel it like a sixth sense I haven’t even got a positive OPK yet. I will see what the next few days bring. This is just my luck....we are leaving for vacation on Sept. 4th and AF would be due around the 5th or 6th :
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