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#241 of 271 Old 08-28-2008, 08:15 PM
 
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Sk8termaiden ~ It looks anov to me so far. That doesn't mean that you didn't or won't O. It's just not there yet. Did you try setting the software to not calculate O before say cd22, August 24? That would at least get rid of the egg.
Yeah, I did, but that still leaves my coverline where it is which is too low and doesn't help me much. I'll adjust it once I actually get an O. I think tomorrow's temp will tell whether or not I'm right on my first theory.

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I don't know if my last question was clear. What I was asking is, in retrospect, if you see that the last time you had sex was 5 days before O, would you consider it pretty unlikely to get pregnant? Or, do you still consider there to be a real possibility (not just a slight possibility) of getting pregnant unless the last time of sex was at least 7 days before O? I'm still stuck in the ttc mindframe so any sex further than 3 days before O is considered useless to me.
If I had fertile or semi fertile CF 5 days before O I would be scared senseless. There are tons of examples of girls getting pg 5 or 6 days before O in the chart galleries. If I had sticky or was dry 5 days before O I wouldn't be worried at all.

I'm Kellie :, married to Chris , and mom to one baby girl (7/12/09).
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#242 of 271 Old 08-28-2008, 08:17 PM
 
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if I DTD 5 days out with no attempt at protection (w/d, condom, diaphragm) it would make me very nervous. I have fertile mucous for 6 or 7 days before a temp shift though, so DTD 5 days out would be risky for me personally.

If I had only sticky mucous 5 days before o, I might feel differently.

a bigger clue for me than mucous is how I feel. when I'm fertile, my libido changes dramatically. I'm a lot more 'romantic'.. basically I've come to the conclusion if I WANT to DTD (and I mean REALLY want), then I'm probably fertile

When I got pg unintentionally and had no noticeable slippery mucous, I remember I told DH - I don't have fertile signs but I FEEL fertile. I should have listened to myself!

If I found out I o'd 5 days after DTD, It'd be a tense two weeks for us.
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#243 of 271 Old 08-28-2008, 08:26 PM
 
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Sk8termaiden ~ It looks anov to me so far. That doesn't mean that you didn't or won't O. It's just not there yet. Did you try setting the software to not calculate O before say cd22, August 24? That would at least get rid of the egg.

I don't know if my last question was clear. What I was asking is, in retrospect, if you see that the last time you had sex was 5 days before O, would you consider it pretty unlikely to get pregnant? Or, do you still consider there to be a real possibility (not just a slight possibility) of getting pregnant unless the last time of sex was at least 7 days before O? I'm still stuck in the ttc mindframe so any sex further than 3 days before O is considered useless to me.
Depends on CM. If I had EW or wet then yes I would be very nervous. Probably up to 7 days before would be my comfort level. If it was dry or sticky then no, I wouldn't worry. I tend to have tons of EWCM for a few weeks before O so that would really make me nervous.



Sk8termaiden - looks anov to me too. Let's see what the next few days bring.s
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#244 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 03:28 AM
 
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hey all!

i've been MIA for a couple of weeks, super busy. but do any of you have any idea when i O'd. it's been shift work all month so my sleeping is all over the place. chart is in my sig.

TIA
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#245 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 04:01 AM
 
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Marinewife, it totally depends upon your chart. This cycle I had 6 days straight of EWCM and 10 days total of fertile cm, so anything up to 8 days before O could have knocked me up. If you have inhospitable CM, the sperm will die and not travel through the cervix to the uterus. If you're fertile, it won't- not necessarily.

Amber, I'd agree with FF- I think you're 9 dpo now. Does your chart normally rise like that, though?

My temperature was up this morning, and I still don't know what I feel about it.

eta: I have an appointment for a copper IUD fitting this afternoon. It feels good. Feels right. I can't believe I couldn't even make it through one month's charting without screwing up though

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#246 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, everyone, for answering my question. It's irrelevant now, anyway. I think I'm getting an anov bleed. There was a bit more than just spotting on the tissue this morning.

Amber ~ I can't tell. Sorry.

Canid ~ Looks like O, huh?

I always forget stuff. I'm stoked because I think I finally have seen the difference between creamy and sticky CF. A couple days ago I had white, lotiony CF. Yesterday, I had white, definitely sticky CF. There wasn't much but enough to see it form peaks. Woohoo! I might actually be figuring this out.

Ok, there was one more thing but now I've forgotten it again. Oh yeah. I noticed I had a very increased sex drive the last week or so. My dh was looking soooo good I could hardly keep my hands off him. Yesterday, though, nothing. I had absolutely no attraction to him whatsoever. I had sticky CF and a tiny bit of spotting yesterday and today possible light flow so that's interesting for me.

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#247 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 11:16 AM
 
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Hi! I am really new here, only visited Charting to Avoid a couple times, so sorry in advance if this is an obvious one to explain! It's my 5th cycle charting, and sketchily at that: I'm not temping, just CF and sometimes cervical position. My (1st) son is 19 months old and still breastfeeds a LOT, daytime and 2+ times per night. My cycles have been 33,41,39, and most recently 41 days long with shift from eggwhite wet to drier near day 22-27 with last cycle a strong ov' twinge on day 23.
...

Something really weird though this cycle: I've got slick bright red copious flow yesterday, last night and today, day 26! AND I had wet wet eggwhite right out of the gate days 8-10!

I had a real stressful experience rafting whitewater day7. Wouldn't that _delay_ rather than hasten ovulation??

Other possibility: I didn't ovulate last month for some unknown reason, the new cycle was just anov bleeding during which we had sex with w/d on 'day4', which would have been day 45 (!!) and now I'm finally ending the cycle?? So out of character for my body...

Any ideas?
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#248 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 11:21 AM
 
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Canid ~ Looks like O, huh?
Yep! : : This is the second cycle were I o'd on CD 34. That has never happened before. I wonder if my body is going to start getting into a regular pattern. CD34 O is still a very long cycle but it's better then being all over the map kwim? AND I'm happy because this cycle didn't have endless EWCM. I only had really noticeable EWCM for 3 or 4 days. The rest was creamy or slippery creamy.

That is strange you are spotting. Must be anov.

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eta: I have an appointment for a copper IUD fitting this afternoon. It feels good. Feels right. I can't believe I couldn't even make it through one month's charting without screwing up though
I'm glad you are happy with your decision. Sometimes it can take 3 or 4 months to really get CTA but I underdstand how you feel.

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hey all!

i've been MIA for a couple of weeks, super busy. but do any of you have any idea when i O'd. it's been shift work all month so my sleeping is all over the place. chart is in my sig.

TIA
I would say FF has it right.
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#249 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 11:42 AM
 
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I haven't gotten anywhere with charting.

I have been watching my CM pretty well, and I have had nothing but sticky since the baby was born a year and 2 weeks ago.

Every time it looks like I am getting regular enough sleep to try to temp, as soon as I get 2 days of temping done something horrible happens that causes me to get almost no sleep for weeks. Seriously, every time! It is starting to feel like I am not meant to temp.

I was very happy for years on hormonal contraceptive pills. They were a good fit for me. I had zero side effects. And it is important to my husband to not have any restrictions in bed, so I don't know how he will cope with it when it becomes time to use an alternate method on the potentially fertile days. He "says" he is fine with it, but I expect him to feel annoyed when the time comes.

I would go back on the pill, except that I am nursing. I know about the mini-pill, that it is safe, but it still could reduce milk supply.

I guess when he weans I will go back on the pill. So I just have to figure out charting for a couple of months more. Hopefully, ovulation will continue to stay away for most of that time.

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#250 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Megan ~ Since you are not temping there's no way to know for sure what's going on. You may not be Oing at all. Especially with breastfeeding, you can have several patches of what appears to be fertile cm and not O. I had several regular seeming anov cycles with bleeding after ds2. If I hadn't been temping, I would've assumed I was Oing. My current (or I guess just past) cycle sounds a lot like yours. I had AF for 7 days and then ewcm from cd9-12. No thermal shift. I was on cd16 today but got light flow so I'm counting that as AF and starting a new cycle. So, last cycle was only 15 days long and, obviously, anov. The cycle before that was 55 days long with probably O on cd45.

Yay Canid! Maybe things will start to get somewhat regular for you now. That would be wonderful!

flapjack ~ If the copper IUD is non-hormonal, you could continue to chart while you have it and see if things work better for you. Then you could always have it removed if you want.

Ovusoft users: I put in menses for today but it didn't start a new cycle. Does it not do that if the cycle was very short and anov?

Also, since my last cycle was only 15 days and I obviously did not O, does that mean the First 5 Days Rule does not apply?

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#251 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 01:48 PM
 
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I don't know if my last question was clear. What I was asking is, in retrospect, if you see that the last time you had sex was 5 days before O, would you consider it pretty unlikely to get pregnant? Or, do you still consider there to be a real possibility (not just a slight possibility) of getting pregnant unless the last time of sex was at least 7 days before O? I'm still stuck in the ttc mindframe so any sex further than 3 days before O is considered useless to me.
I wouldn't look at how many days before O, I'd consider what my cervical fluid was doing. If it were dry 7 days before, I'd consider myself safe. If I were having any sort of fertile-quality fluid, I'd be a little paranoid. If it were egg-white, I'd be preparing for the possibility of a positive test.

It really depends on the woman and her body. I get up to a week of fertile quality fluid before O. We abstain during fertile periods, so this puts us out of commission for up to 10 days sometimes.

Also, I wanted to ask you how old your baby is and if you are breastfeeding? Your chart looks like early breakthrough bleeding to me. With both of my kids I had lots anov. bleeding and once had two weeks of EWCM without O. Breastfeeding and charting is weird.
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#252 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 01:49 PM
 
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Also, since my last cycle was only 15 days and I obviously did not O, does that mean the First 5 Days Rule does not apply?
It doesn't apply. I would be very cautious and keep an eye on your cervical fluid!
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#253 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 02:25 PM
 
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Amber, I'd agree with FF- I think you're 9 dpo now. Does your chart normally rise like that, though?
how do you mean, post-O? sometimes it does and sometimes it stays totally stable. i'd say it rises like that about 50% of the time based on my past months charts. i know for a fact i'm not pg because DP has been in england for two months (and i've had 2 on time AFs since he's been gone) so i think it's just the shift work messing with me. i just took my temp this morning immediately after waking up and it was 36.80 which is pretty high for first thing in the morning, even for a post-O temp. about 50% of the time my temps take a long time into my new cycle to fall as well.
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#254 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I wouldn't look at how many days before O, I'd consider what my cervical fluid was doing. If it were dry 7 days before, I'd consider myself safe. If I were having any sort of fertile-quality fluid, I'd be a little paranoid. If it were egg-white, I'd be preparing for the possibility of a positive test.

It really depends on the woman and her body. I get up to a week of fertile quality fluid before O. We abstain during fertile periods, so this puts us out of commission for up to 10 days sometimes.

Also, I wanted to ask you how old your baby is and if you are breastfeeding? Your chart looks like early breakthrough bleeding to me. With both of my kids I had lots anov. bleeding and once had two weeks of EWCM without O. Breastfeeding and charting is weird.
It's hard for me to consider myself fertile just because I have ewcm because I can have weeks of ewcm before I O. That's what PCOS can do. Also, I guess because I have charted for so long to ttc I don't consider anything farther out than 3 days before O as risky regardless of CF. I know it can happen but I don't think it's really that likely for sperm to survive more than 3 days even in very hospitable CF. When ttc, if I were to stop bd more than 3 days before O, I would not expect to get pregnant. Of course, there's no way to know until after O how much before O you dtd so it make sense to abstain or use protection whenever you have fertile CF. I know, though, that it's very, very unlikely for me to O before cd18 regardless of what my CF is like.

My babe is almost 15 months old. I am still breastfeeding a lot. I know that can mess with things. I had several anov cycles from about 11 months to 15 months PP after ds2. Then I had one O cycle, one anov cycle and then another very early O cycle. After that my cycles started to get more regular for me.

So, do you know why the First 5 Days Rule doesn't apply if you have an anov cycle or if you have a short lp? (Not that it would really matter for us. We don't dtd during AF.)

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#255 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 03:06 PM
 
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It's hard for me to consider myself fertile just because I have ewcm because I can have weeks of ewcm before I O. That's what PCOS can do. Also, I guess because I have charted for so long to ttc I don't consider anything farther out than 3 days before O as risky regardless of CF. I know it can happen but I don't think it's really that likely for sperm to survive more than 3 days even in very hospitable CF. When ttc, if I were to stop bd more than 3 days before O, I would not expect to get pregnant. Of course, there's no way to know until after O how much before O you dtd so it make sense to abstain or use protection whenever you have fertile CF. I know, though, that it's very, very unlikely for me to O before cd18 regardless of what my CF is like.

My babe is almost 15 months old. I am still breastfeeding a lot. I know that can mess with things. I had several anov cycles from about 11 months to 15 months PP after ds2. Then I had one O cycle, one anov cycle and then another very early O cycle. After that my cycles started to get more regular for me.

So, do you know why the First 5 Days Rule doesn't apply if you have an anov cycle or if you have a short lp? (Not that it would really matter for us. We don't dtd during AF.)
I can certainly understand that. Even when BFing it's like that, like I said I once had two weeks of EWCM! And I knew with how often he was still nursing, I probably wasn't going to O. And if I did, my LP would probably be too short to support a pregnancy anyhow.

It's totally up to you to use the method as it works for you, using knowledge you have about your body and previous cycles. But as applies to the method's rules, I wouldn't DTD on any day where there was fertile CM if I didn't want to chance pregnancy. Maybe I misread what you were asking! But there wouldn't be any number of days that could be counted upon as a universal rule. Each woman's cycles are different... and I guess one could argue each individual cycle is different. If you really want to avoid, following these rules is your best bet. Going by days is more calendar/rhythm and is what gives the method a bad rep-- because it's that ONE cycle that's different where an oops occurs. KWIM?

My younger son is almost 15 months as well. My cycles resumed much later this time but the pattern has been similar.

Why would you not use the first 5 days rule after an anov. cycle? Because having a clear CM dry up, clear temp shift, and elevated temp for 12+ days is the best way of knowing you did indeed ovulate. If you hadn't yet, bleeding should be considered fertile (because some women do spot/bleed right before, during, right after ovulation) With the shorter LP's and less elevated temps, it's harder to be sure of ovulation. IMO, I'd be comfortable seeing a shift with 10 high temps in a woman and use the 5 days rule, if that was her own cycle pattern. That, and because she might have other clues going on to tell her she did in fact ovulate.

Also, with shorter LP's can come lower progesterone. Sometimes the temps don't all go far above the coverline, some go below, or hover. It can be really hard to tell for certain.

Sorry for the ramble.
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#256 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 03:08 PM
 
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I don't know why it doesn't apply if you have a short LP, but it doesn't apply if you had an anovulatory cycle because you could theoretically have fertile mucous during the bleeding and ovulate during that time.
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#257 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Maybe I misread what you were asking! But there wouldn't be any number of days that could be counted upon as a universal rule. Each woman's cycles are different... and I guess one could argue each individual cycle is different. If you really want to avoid, following these rules is your best bet. Going by days is more calendar/rhythm and is what gives the method a bad rep-- because it's that ONE cycle that's different where an oops occurs. KWIM?
Yeah, I wasn't talking about trying to go by days. I was just wondering when I could consider myself completely out of the woods in retrospect since more and more days are passing since the last time we dtd and I haven't Oed yet. It's been 6 days since we dtd so I'm pretty safe as far as time. However, I did have very fertile CF at that time so I'm wondering how much of a real possibility there is that I could get pregnant.

Thanks for the info on the 5 days rule. I think that's what happened with that one very early O I had after ds2. The cycle before was anov and then I Oed on cd12. Probably still had the follie hanging around from before so it didn't take as long as usual for it to mature. We'll start doing withdrawal from now on, anyway, because of the time. I'm entering my normal possibly fertile period.

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#258 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 04:42 PM
 
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It's hard for me to consider myself fertile just because I have ewcm because I can have weeks of ewcm before I O. That's what PCOS can do. Also, I guess because I have charted for so long to ttc I don't consider anything farther out than 3 days before O as risky regardless of CF. I know it can happen but I don't think it's really that likely for sperm to survive more than 3 days even in very hospitable CF. When ttc, if I were to stop bd more than 3 days before O, I would not expect to get pregnant. Of course, there's no way to know until after O how much before O you dtd so it make sense to abstain or use protection whenever you have fertile CF. I know, though, that it's very, very unlikely for me to O before cd18 regardless of what my CF is like.

My babe is almost 15 months old. I am still breastfeeding a lot. I know that can mess with things. I had several anov cycles from about 11 months to 15 months PP after ds2. Then I had one O cycle, one anov cycle and then another very early O cycle. After that my cycles started to get more regular for me.

So, do you know why the First 5 Days Rule doesn't apply if you have an anov cycle or if you have a short lp? (Not that it would really matter for us. We don't dtd during AF.)
New studies are showing that sperm can live up to 7 days in very fertile CF.

Studies have shown for years that sperm live up to 5 days in EWCF.

I know you're coming from a mindset of TTC, but the chance of getting pregnant at more than 3 days pre O is very real and not that negligable. I have seen so many charts with pregnancy from sex 5 and 6 days pre O.

I know how obnoxious it is to have to use protection on all of your "fertile" days. I have long and irregular cycles and am on day 18 this cycle since creamy made its first appearance. (Yes, lots of people get pregnant on creamy CF too.) But if you are serious at all about not getting pregnant, you really have to follow the rules.

Not you you. We already know not to do what you do.

I'm Kellie :, married to Chris , and mom to one baby girl (7/12/09).
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#259 of 271 Old 08-29-2008, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, Sk8termaiden. I know I need to have a mindshift on that. That's why I keep bringing it up. Sometimes I need things hammered into my head before I accept them.

So, I don't know what the heck is going on with me now. I thought I had started a new cycle today. I had some very light spotting two days ago and then again yesterday. This morning I had a much larger, quarter to half dollar size, bright red spot on the tissue when I wiped. I assumed that was AF starting but the rest of the day I've only had scant brown spotting.

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#260 of 271 Old 08-30-2008, 01:19 PM
 
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So, still with not a single sign of fertility (nothing but sticky for more than a year), I yesteday got my second post-partum AF. Roughly 6 weeks after the first.

I know techically the 5 day rule doesn't apply unless you can confirm with a temp shift that you Oed. I don't think I have Oed.

What do you ladies think? Should I consider myself risky until I can re-establish that I have only sticky CM? How long should I watch CM before I can go back to thinking I am probably safe?

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#261 of 271 Old 08-30-2008, 11:10 PM
 
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Ok, I'm tired of waiting and having no tell tale signs to read and a craptastic chart so I am currently boilliing me up some fresh ginger (to make a tea). The sister zeus site I linked to earlier says it's considered an emmenogouge. I figure it can't hurt. I would love to have something tip the scales in the direction of an af yk? I was going to try parsley (also listed...both are mild ones) but 1.) kellymom says it can reduce milk and 2.) I prefer ginger.

I hope it works! I'll keep you updated. I would love to have my cycles back already. My house smells so heavenly!

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#262 of 271 Old 08-31-2008, 03:20 AM
 
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I tell you what, OMnM, you can have my signs to read. I don't like them much (chart here There's part of me that's hoping I haven't O'ed yet, as that's a very small temperature shift considering I took synthetic progesterone as well...:

Oh, my great-granny (the midwife) swore by ginger beer as an emmenogogue. I'm brewing a batch up now for next week.

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#263 of 271 Old 08-31-2008, 10:13 AM
 
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I didn't know about parsley and ginger. I had a lot of parsley a few days ago, and then got AF about a day or 2 after.

Leigh, mama to Rostislav homeborn Aug 9 2007, and Oksana homeborn Feb 24 2011.
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#264 of 271 Old 08-31-2008, 10:41 AM
 
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So, still with not a single sign of fertility (nothing but sticky for more than a year), I yesteday got my second post-partum AF. Roughly 6 weeks after the first.

I know techically the 5 day rule doesn't apply unless you can confirm with a temp shift that you Oed. I don't think I have Oed.

What do you ladies think? Should I consider myself risky until I can re-establish that I have only sticky CM? How long should I watch CM before I can go back to thinking I am probably safe?
hmmm that is hard for me to answer. I don't trust CM alone. I need to see my temps with it to confirm O. You could have O'd without EWCM or not. I would not consider myself safe until I saw the O with a thermal shift.

Ok ladies, I counted wrong in my head last while DH was wooing me I thought I was 3 days post O but I was only 2. So what is the chance of pregnancy with that? I wouldn't be devastated if it happened but I think it's pretty low. I had sticky cm too. I know TCOYF says three DPO because of the chance of two eggs.... I think I'm safe. I hope
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#265 of 271 Old 08-31-2008, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If you are sure you Oed, the chance of pregnancy from sex 2 days afterward is nil. The chance of pregnancy the day afterward is pretty non-existent. Personally, I think that only happens if you either didn't really O until the next day or you dtd within just a few hours of O.

I'm on cd2 now, I guess. FF started a new chart for me but Ovusoft didn't. Does anyone know how to start a new chart in Ovusoft? It's still saying I'm fertile (which I guess, technically, I am since I didn't O). Does Ovusoft not consider it a new cycle unless you actually O even if you have full on flow? This is a bummer since FIL left today so we could dtd now. Eh, I'm not really in the mood, anyway.

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#266 of 271 Old 09-01-2008, 06:44 AM
 
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Well, if you didn't ovulate then it's still the same cycle. It just depends on how you want to/ the computer programme wants to present the information. I can see advantages in it, anyhow, because sometimes looking at a long, LOONG anovulatory chart can be a bit soul-destroying.

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#267 of 271 Old 09-01-2008, 09:44 AM
 
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If you are sure you Oed, the chance of pregnancy from sex 2 days afterward is nil. The chance of pregnancy the day afterward is pretty non-existent. Personally, I think that only happens if you either didn't really O until the next day or you dtd within just a few hours of O.

I'm on cd2 now, I guess. FF started a new chart for me but Ovusoft didn't. Does anyone know how to start a new chart in Ovusoft? It's still saying I'm fertile (which I guess, technically, I am since I didn't O). Does Ovusoft not consider it a new cycle unless you actually O even if you have full on flow? This is a bummer since FIL left today so we could dtd now. Eh, I'm not really in the mood, anyway.
Thanks. I didn't think the possibility would be much but I am a worry wart. I don't have ovusoft but I would start a new cycle if I had 3-4 days of bleeding (not spotting) and I would not consider myself safe with the first 5 day rule. But if you get the dry days then I would go for it.
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#268 of 271 Old 09-01-2008, 01:52 PM
 
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MarineWife, that is really, really odd!! Ovusoft is programmed to start a new cycle anytime you have red flow and I have no idea why yours isn't.

And as for soul destroying long cycles, I'm afraid I'm in one again. Two cycles ago I had a 156 day cycle that I finally ended with Provera. This time I'm using the annovulatory cycles rules because 5 months of nothing but protected sex is a killer, let me tell you.

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#269 of 271 Old 09-01-2008, 07:19 PM
 
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Nothing yet although I'm not sure that's for any reason other than me. The first dose I had was a bit strong hot so I tried to cool it off with ice (thus watering it down) but that was worse (can we say holy gagging! ) so then I mixed it into a smoothie (which was heavenly!) so I'm not sure I actually got a decent dose by the time I drank it. I've done a couple more cups worth but I've been exhausting the ginger each time (getting a couple cups each set of chunks) so the potentcy is less and less. I finally found a tasty combo though so I'm going to brew up a stronger batch and see if that won't do it. If not, I've built up a dislike of ginger. So all's not lost.

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#270 of 271 Old 09-01-2008, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MarineWife, that is really, really odd!! Ovusoft is programmed to start a new cycle anytime you have red flow and I have no idea why yours isn't.

And as for soul destroying long cycles, I'm afraid I'm in one again. Two cycles ago I had a 156 day cycle that I finally ended with Provera. This time I'm using the annovulatory cycles rules because 5 months of nothing but protected sex is a killer, let me tell you.
Hmmm...That is very strange, then. I figured out how to get a new chart started but I'm going to leave it for now just to see what it does. Right now it says I'm in the fertile phase of my cycle with one temp above my CL.

Sorry about the long cycle. I know how awful those are. For at least a year after I had my Norplant removed I had to take provera every 3 months because it was the only way I'd get AF. That really sucked.

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