Charting to Avoid August Thread - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 271 Old 08-01-2008, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome to the charting to avoid August thread. If you would like to be added or removed (or have anything changed) from the roll call list, please let me know by PMing me. PM me if you'd like to start next month's thread.

Here's a link to last month's July Thread

*Charting/Using FAM/NFP to AVOID*

who we are:

abharrington - CTA since 12/07
akaisha - since 04/08
AmbieBambie 1011 -- CTA since 01/07
Andee - since 03/08
AnnieA -- since 12/07
anonyma - CTA since 12/07
APMomOfKimmyN-Maya - CTA since 03/08
April8830 - CTA since 04/08
BananaBreadGirl - CTA for 2 years
bananabug - since 02/07
Betnybaby
breezlin - CTA since 12/07
blessedmommy2006 - CTA for 21 mo
CanidFL - CTA since 06/08
Carlyn - CTA since 04/08
cfiddlinmama -- CTA since 11/07 + more prior
CherryBomb - since 06/08
chi_mama - CTA since 08/08
chisub - CTA since 07/07
conniebonnie - CTA since 04/07
Contrariety -- since 02/08
crunchymamatobe - CTA since 01/08 + 2yrs
cutekid - since 02/08
desert lamb - CTA since 08/07
eirual - CTA since 06/07
flapjack -
indiemamma - since 09/07
jamiecatheryn -- CTA since 02/07
jenne - CTA since 12/07
jeninejessica - since 12/07
jewelysmommy - CTA since 02/08
jhpjkmomma CTA since 06/08
Jilian - CTA since 02/08
Juliacat - CTA since 03/08 mo, +33 cycles prior from 2001-2004
KatieJJ334 -- CTA since 03/08
KimProbable - CTA since 28 mo.
ladyinred -
LittleBirdy - CTA since 03/08
LizzyQ - since 05/08
lovemybaby - CTA since 12/07
lovinlife1219 - since 08/08
maggierayne -- CTA since 02/08
MarineWife - Fertility Friend Ovusoft since 06/08
MFuglei - for 28 months
mom2cash - since 06/08
momofsamandaddi - CTA since 03/08
momtokimari
Munkeesmama - CTA since 12/07
mysticmama - CTA since 12/07
notamommayet - CTA since 3 mo.
notyetamommy - CTA since 22 mo.
Othermother'n'madre - since 02/08
potatofairy - CTA since 11/07
reina28 - since 03/08
sahm2two - CTA since 12/07
sk8ermaiden - 09/07
Sihaya - since 03/08
Shelsi - CTA since 08/07
sidshappymamma - CTA since 08/08
silverspoook - CTA since 12/07
swanmom - since 12/07
texaspeach - CTA since 10/04
tippy - CTA 4 yr
triscuitsmom - CTA since 10/07
TrishWSU --
Twinklefae - since 05/08
twolilsweetfoxes - CTA since 02/08
wilson - CTA since 02/08
##jackie -- CTA since 02/08

Graduates (no longer avoiding)
Feminine earth
JuicyPakwan - since 06/07
jul511riv - CTA 17 mo
Mrs_Lurker - CTA 11 mo
Bun in Oven --
ccasanova -- cta 4 mo
augustinem -- cta 6 mo (lax at the end...)
DanelleB - : since 12/07
Runner29 - CTA since 07/07 + 2 years previous
ShwarmaQueen - CTA since 09/07

Happy charting!

Summary of FAM rules (sympto-thermal)

Pre-ovulation rules:

1) First 5 Days Rule: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had an obvious temp shift 12-16 days before.

2) Dry day rule: You are safe to DTD after 6PM if you have been dry all day.

Post ovulation rules:

1) Peak day rule: the last day of fertile mucous is called the peak day (the day before your mucous begins to dry up). You are safe to DTD on the fourth consecutive day after the peak day. If another patch of more fertile mucous appears, start your count over.

2) Temperature shift rule: You are safe the evening of the third consecutive day your temp is above your coverline. If your temp falls at or below the coverline during the 3 day count, begin your count again.

BOTH rules must be satisfied to be considered in your infertile phase.

How to set a coverline:

When you see a temperature shift of at least 0.2 degrees F above the highest of the previous 6 temps, draw a line 0.1 degrees F above that highest temp.

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#2 of 271 Old 08-01-2008, 09:32 AM
 
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I'm really confused by where FF put my cover line this month. I know my temperatures have been a little out of whack, but to me it seems pretty obvious that I had a fall-back rise and so it should have my cover line at about 36.35 rather than below most of my pre O temps. Is there anyway I can change the cover line myself?
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#3 of 271 Old 08-01-2008, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You can change your CL by going to the Tuning/Override section under the Ovulation Predictor. Put in your CL and O day and hit override. The CL doesn't really mean anything, though. It's just a visual aid to help you see the biphasic pattern.

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#4 of 271 Old 08-01-2008, 02:49 PM
 
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Wow it’s August!!! DS is 11 months now.

Here’s to a new month of charting. So far so good for me. I hope I don’t have another really long fertile period….those drive me nuts.
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#5 of 271 Old 08-01-2008, 03:48 PM
 
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Had a small dip this am (like .2 degrees ) but still above my coverline. I really hope I get af soon. The first ovulatory cycle I had after DD1 had a 7 day lp. Today is day 7 so I'm just sitting here waiting to see if things happen like last time.

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#6 of 271 Old 08-02-2008, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have some serious issues, ladies. I cannot stop obsessing over this cycle. I was so sure I had Oed on cd23 based on my temps and cm. I'm now on cd43 or 44 with no sign of AF. My temp is sort of in the middle. It's not as high as it was when I first thought I Oed but it hasn't dropped below my CL and stayed there yet. I'm not sure what my cm is doing now. I thought maybe I had some ewcm 2 or 3 days ago but there's very little of it. My CP has been high and soft but not open. Ovusoft says I'm pg. FF says I should test because I am probably pg.

I have taken 3 $ Tree tests. The first one was obviously negative. The 2nd one had what I think was an evap line. My 4yo ds saw the 2nd line but he didn't look at it until after 10 minutes. The 3rd one has what looks like another evap line on it. My 4yo ds cannot see a 2nd line on that one. I'm almost completely convinced it's an evap line but the fact that I think I can see something there is driving me crazy. I can't stop testing. I don't really want to have another baby but I would be happy if I were pg. My dh busted me taking one and just laughed at me. He absolutely does not want any more children.

I wish AF would just get here already so I can move on. I'm going to be miserable and obsessing until it does. I'm trying really hard not to whine on here about constantly so I don't drive you all crazy with me.

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#7 of 271 Old 08-02-2008, 07:44 PM
 
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I'm a fan of dollar tree tests. That said, in the past couple weeks I have read a million times over how 1. they aren't that sensitive (with many women never testing positive on them even though they were pregnant) and 2. they get lots of evap. lines. Maybe try a different test? I know WalMart sells a 2 pack (sometimes 3) of Equate brand for like 8-10 bucks. I liked them.

Can you take a picture of the 2 potential evaps? I swear I read that if it's a true evap. it won't show up when inverted.

That's got to be tough right now.

Go test with a better test.

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#8 of 271 Old 08-02-2008, 07:45 PM
 
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if i was you i would take a digital test, then you know once and for all. or go to the doctor and get a blood test, but since you'd have to pay for that (didn't look at your location but i'm assuming you're in the states) maybe that's not possible. are dollar tree tests blue or pink ink? is it right that blue leaves evap lines and pink doesn't? i can't remember, but i know many people refuse to use blue ink tests.

anyway, CD 1 for me.
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#9 of 271 Old 08-02-2008, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I used the $ Tree tests pretty early when I got pg with ds3. The lines were really faint but I could tell they were lines. They had color to them. These lines don't seem to have any color to them at all, just a shadow or maybe even just an indent where the line should be. I'm so good at knowing where that line is I can see myself imagining it there. As far as I know, any of the tests can have evap lines, blue or pink. The blue tests had a bad rap for a while because they were looking + a lot when they really weren't. Part of the reason I can justify testing is that the tests only cost $1, that I can take out of my weekly spending money.

I've been thinking about going to the doc for a test. I need to have an annual exam anyway. Problem is I don't have a doc right now. The OB I was seeing when I was pg with ds3 reported me to CPS for having him at home. My GP whom I haven't seen in a year seems to have disappeared. I know if I go to a doc they'll give me a test when I tell them my lmp.

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#10 of 271 Old 08-03-2008, 03:42 PM
 
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Ok I'm confused. I was just looking something up for my sister in TCOYF and ran across the part explaining how gio on a dry day is safe because dry= estrogen too low for ovulation to happen. Ok that makes sense. However, my chart (both ovusoft and FF) put my O date on a dry day. : It's day one after my peak day so I'm assuming thats why. Is that right?

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#11 of 271 Old 08-03-2008, 05:03 PM
 
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Yes, although the dry day rule only applies until your first fertile CM appears. After that, standard TTA rules apply. I have long, irregular cycles, and I the dry day rule.

I'm Kellie :, married to Chris , and mom to one baby girl (7/12/09).
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#12 of 271 Old 08-03-2008, 05:41 PM
 
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I don't think I was clear on my question. If no cm= low/no estrogen=no ovulation why are my charts saying I o'd on a dry day and not on say my peak day (my dry day was the start of the 4 dry day count after peak)?

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#13 of 271 Old 08-03-2008, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherMother'n'Madre View Post
I don't think I was clear on my question. If no cm= low/no estrogen=no ovulation why are my charts saying I o'd on a dry day and not on say my peak day (my dry day was the start of the 4 dry day count after peak)?
It's the LH surge you get after your estrogen has reached a certain level that causes O. So, your estrogen could be already going down and cm drying up by the time you get a temp rise. Also, it can take up to 3 days after O for a temp rise to occur. To be safe, though, you have to assume you haven't Oed until you see the temp rise and get a sustained thermal shift.

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#14 of 271 Old 08-03-2008, 08:30 PM
 
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Ahhh ok that makes a bit more sense. So the egg could have already burst out and the estrogen levels dropped enough at the same time that cm would dry up but the lh levels hadn't jumped enough to show it yet? Okie dokie!

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#15 of 271 Old 08-03-2008, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ahhh ok that makes a bit more sense. So the egg could have already burst out and the estrogen levels dropped enough at the same time that cm would dry up but the lh levels hadn't jumped enough to show it yet? Okie dokie!
Not exactly. It's not LH that causes the temp rise. It's progesterone produced by the corpus luteum that's left over from ovulation. The LH surge usually doesn't last more than a couple of days, just long enough to push the egg out once it's been matured by the estrogen. So, it works like this: estrogen rises causing the egg to mature. Once the egg is mature, there is an LH surge that causes the egg to be released. After ovulation the corpus luteum, which is the empty sac that the egg was growing in, produces progesterone that causes a temp rise. Meanwhile, the estrogen decreases.

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#16 of 271 Old 08-04-2008, 12:51 AM
 
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I ended up reading that exact thing after I posted. And now reading back on your other post I had the a-ha! moment. Now it makes sense for the o date. Thanks!

I have another question now. Does anyone just do temps.? I know cm is to cooraborate your temps but mine doesn't (nor does my cp). It never has. It's not just me as all the women in my family have very unstable cm. Should I bother with trying it or can you safely/effectively chart to avoid with just temps.?

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#17 of 271 Old 08-04-2008, 08:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by OtherMother'n'Madre View Post
I ended up reading that exact thing after I posted. And now reading back on your other post I had the a-ha! moment. Now it makes sense for the o date. Thanks!

I have another question now. Does anyone just do temps.? I know cm is to cooraborate your temps but mine doesn't (nor does my cp). It never has. It's not just me as all the women in my family have very unstable cm. Should I bother with trying it or can you safely/effectively chart to avoid with just temps.?
I would be pregnant now if I relied solely on my temps! Of course, I have unreliable temps due to hypothyroid so maybe you would be o.k.? If I used temp only, I would make sure that DH used a barrier method of protection until I verified O from the thermal shift. Or we would have to abstain until I knew that I O'ed.

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#18 of 271 Old 08-04-2008, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have another question now. Does anyone just do temps.? I know cm is to cooraborate your temps but mine doesn't (nor does my cp). It never has. It's not just me as all the women in my family have very unstable cm. Should I bother with trying it or can you safely/effectively chart to avoid with just temps.?
Although I record my CM, I rely on temps alone to verify when I Oed. With PCOS, I can have very long cycles with lots of patches of fertile cm so I can't predict when I'll O based on that. When I was ttc we just bd every 2-3 days no matter what until my temp went up.

This is my first cycle charting to avoid so I don't have much experience with that. However, I think it's important to at least pay attention to your cm while avoiding because it's the sign that tells you when you are potentially fertile and need to be extra cautious. Your temp only tells you after the fact that you have Oed. You cannot use temps to predict when you are fertile or when you will O. If you have regular cycles, you can also use day counting to predict when you will be fertile and act accordingly.

I took a different hpt and it was definitely negative so I'm sure I'm not pg. Whew! I feel a lot better knowing. I guess it was the wondering that was driving me crazy and not really the desire to be pg.

Sk8termaiden ~ Do you know if there's a way to not set a temp time on Ovusoft? I do not take my temp at anything near a regular time right now so when I put it in Ovusoft it either gets adjusted or discarded.

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#19 of 271 Old 08-04-2008, 10:21 AM
 
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probably obvious, but you can't rely on just temps until after your confirm ovulation with a sustained thermal shift. since fertile CM usually appears before ovulation it gives you a heads up that's you're about to O. but if your CM isn't typical you might not be able to do that now anyway. post-O it really doesn't make a difference what your CM is, but then again once you confirm ovulation it doesn't really matter what your temp is either. since CM is to verify temps, but it's not doing that for you anyway, i don't see why it wouldn't be ok to ignore it, you just have to treat every pre-O day as fertile, which isn't a bad idea anyway.
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#20 of 271 Old 08-04-2008, 10:56 AM
 
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OK, here is my problem:

The baby will be a year old in a few days. I have not had any kind of CM except sticky that whole time. July 11 I started bleeding and it lasted for 4 days. It was approximately as heavy as my AFs used to be, which isn't much. I haven't felt any sort of feelings or seen any sort of signs that anything is happening yet. But I am not certain what I will notice. Before I had the baby, I didn't know much about fertility at all. I didn't know to look for any signs, so I don't know what is normal for me. I also wouldn't assume that everything is going to be the same now as it was before.

Anyway, I haven't been able to temp in any way that makes sense. My sleep is extremely irregular due to the baby. Occasionally I get a low temp, that I think is probably my real basal body temp, but most of the time I get the same temp I would get if I were awake and at rest. (I get much higher temps if I am active.) If all the temps I have had are pre-O temps, they are too dramatically erratic to be accurate, I think. I haven't recorded them, since I was only temping to practice and make it a habit.

So, some questions:

For now, as long as I don't see any change to CM, can I consider us safe? Then if I just wait until I see ANY change, I can worry about it later? In the meant time, I can practice temping some more, and also maybe when I DO ovulate, I will notice some other signs that I can use as indicators in the future.

As I think I understand it, if I have a change in CM where it gets more fertile and then back to less fertile, I might have ovulated, but I might not have. I would need to successfully temp to be sure. So, I wouldn't be able to safely say that the fertile time has passed, because there still might be a pending ovulation. I that correct?

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Lady Lilya – I would not consider your safe right now. You could technically O at any time and since your temps all over the place, I would use CM to determine if you are safe. You can consider yourself safe if you have 4 dry days. So let’s say you get 3 days of EWCM then 4 days of dryness. Then you are safe. If you get 2 days of EWCM then 2 days of lotiony CM then 1 dry day then 2 sticky, etc….you are not safe. Hope that helps.

Marinewife - this looks like a touch cycle. I’m not sure what to tell you. I would get a digital test or go for the blood test at the doctor. Maybe you didn’t O at all and your temps are just erratic right now? The many days of EWCM and temp shift really indicate an O though. I’m not sure. Sorry that wasn’t much help Do you take Vitex? You should try it to help regulate the cycles. I’ve been on it for 2 months now and already my temps seem to have gotten better. I’m trying to get some regular cycles going by the end of the year.

ETA: If you don't get AF in 15 days (CD60), I would induce it with progesterone from the doc. Maybe when you go for your physical you could get an RX?
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Sk8termaiden ~ Do you know if there's a way to not set a temp time on Ovusoft? I do not take my temp at anything near a regular time right now so when I put it in Ovusoft it either gets adjusted or discarded.
So far I have not been able to find a way to do that. I also take my temps all over the place. I just put them in every day and let the software believe it's at the normal time. I adjust them myself if I think they need adjusting.

I'm Kellie :, married to Chris , and mom to one baby girl (7/12/09).
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#23 of 271 Old 08-04-2008, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, Sk8termaiden. I think that was the reason I stopped using Ovusoft before. It annoys me that I can't just put the temps and times in as they are and leave them. I've always been able to see a thermal shift in spite of my waking habits.

Canid ~ I'm reluctant to get a script for progesterone because I'm still breastfeeding. I'm assuming that's why things are so wacky. I don't want to try to fix something that's not really broken, iykwim.

Lady Lilya ~ I agree with Canid. Without temping and charting you can't know for sure you Oed regardless of what your cm does. I would consider things safe as long as you don't have anything other than dry or sticky cm. If your cm gets the slightest bit more fertile looking, I'd consider you potentially fertile.

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Hmmm ok two temp. dips with this morning's going way below my coverline and no sign of af. I just checked internally as well and nothing at the tip. I hate the wait of the first pp af.

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#25 of 271 Old 08-05-2008, 03:43 PM
 
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Temp. is back up this morning though still below my coverline. I'm thinking I didn't really o and my charts don't know any better. I did take a test to be sure though and it was negative. I knew it would be but it sure is reassuring.

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#26 of 271 Old 08-05-2008, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Temp. is back up this morning though still below my coverline. I'm thinking I didn't really o and my charts don't know any better.
How long is your lp usually?

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#27 of 271 Old 08-05-2008, 04:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post

Canid ~ I'm reluctant to get a script for progesterone because I'm still breastfeeding. I'm assuming that's why things are so wacky. I don't want to try to fix something that's not really broken, iykwim.
oh yeah you don't want to induce AF if you are nursing.
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#28 of 271 Old 08-05-2008, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oh yeah you don't want to induce AF if you are nursing.
Good. I'm glad you agree. I was beginning to wonder if I should do something. I have made a doctor's appointment but it's not until Sept 22nd.

I'm not sure what to do about preventing, though, since we're doing withdrawal. Should I just use CM to decide whether or not I'm fertile? I've had several dry or sticky days with LFC cervix. I'm not exactly sure how to determine my BIP. I always had a hard time with CM. What I seemed to notice when I was ttc was that I'd go from sticky to ewcm and then have weeks of ewcm (gotta love PCOS). So, would my BIP be sticky or creamy?

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#29 of 271 Old 08-05-2008, 07:33 PM
 
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I *so* haven't been charting at all this cycle. :

I have so many predictable cycles that I just can't be bothered to wake up and stick the thermometer in my mouth these days.

DH and I used this method (which was basically me monitoring my CM and keeping a mental calendar i mind) for a long time before becoming pregnant with DS (which wouldn't have happened if it weren't for a few too many gin and tonics, if you know what I mean...).

It wouldn't be the end of the world it I became pregnant. We find ourselves completely unable to make a conscious decision to TTC. So instead we take the half-assed TTA route.

Anyone else in my boat?
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#30 of 271 Old 08-06-2008, 03:10 AM
 
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How long is your lp usually?
I only have one other full cycle before this. It was between DD1 and DD2 and I used a fertility monitor as well. Anyhow that was only 7 days and I think it was the 2nd cycle I had after DD1 (didn't start back up until she was 13 months). Today is 12dpo (apparently).

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