Vaccine Choice and Single-Payer Health Care - Mothering Forums

 20Likes
  • 2 Post By Turquesa
  • 3 Post By Deborah
  • 2 Post By Turquesa
  • 2 Post By Deborah
  • 2 Post By Tweety_Bird
  • 4 Post By Tweety_Bird
  • 1 Post By Deborah
  • 2 Post By Turquesa
  • 2 Post By Turquesa
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 9 Old 09-17-2017, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,670
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1751 Post(s)
Vaccine Choice and Single-Payer Health Care

In the U.S. Congress, Senators Merkley and Sanders have introduced "Medicare for All" legislation. If passed, it would establish a single-payer health care system in the U.S. I think we can count on a veto from Trump, so this discussion will only be hypothetical.

I don't want to hear a discussion about the merits and pitfalls of single-payer health care at large. I "know" most of you well enough to know where you probably stand on this issue. I'm focused on the issue of informed choice and medical coercion.

Considering the current climate in the United States, do you think that a single-payer health care system would have any affect on vaccine choice vs. coercion? If so, how? Would medical choices be affected any differently than they are with the current status quo?

On paper, I love the idea of single-payer health care. I also wonder how much carrot-and-stick crap the feds would pull with vaccines and other health care choices - e.g. we'll cover you only if you obey us and do X, Y, and Z. For whatever its worth, both senators have intimated their support for vaccine coercion.

If you live in a single-payer country, I'm interested in hearing from you about your experiences with medical decision-making under this system, even though the cultural climate may play out differently in the U.S.
applejuice and Deborah like this.

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Proud member of #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 9 Old 09-17-2017, 06:21 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 15,555
Mentioned: 338 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2784 Post(s)
@Turquesa
Quote:
Considering the current climate in the United States, do you think that a single-payer health care system would have any affect on vaccine choice vs. coercion? If so, how? Would medical choices be affected any differently than they are with the current status quo?

On paper, I love the idea of single-payer health care. I also wonder how much carrot-and-stick crap the feds would pull with vaccines and other health care choices - e.g. we'll cover you only if you obey us and do X, Y, and Z. For whatever its worth, both senators have intimated their support for vaccine coercion.
Well, I suspect that which ever way we go on single-payer versus insurance versus an end to everything in the current set up and the development of something new...the vaccine pushers will continue to try and use all available levers to "create" compliance.

My second prediction is that no matter how dire the means proposed to get that compliance, certain "experts" will insist that there is no "force" involved.

Tonight I'm a pessimist.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is offline  
#3 of 9 Old 09-18-2017, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,670
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1751 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
@Turquesa

My second prediction is that no matter how dire the means proposed to get that compliance, certain "experts" will insist that there is no "force" involved.

Tonight I'm a pessimist.
No, I hear you. If *they* want coercion, they'll attain coercion.

I'm just not sure if SPHC makes that task easier for *them.* Honestly, there's enough coercion going on with the current status quo that I'm not sure how much difference it will make.

Also, even countries with SPHC still leave an option for a private doctor. So people who are not on aboard with any coercion slipped into Medicare would still have a refuge, much like homeschooling in Mississippi.
applejuice and Deborah like this.

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Proud member of #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
 
#4 of 9 Old 09-18-2017, 06:13 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 15,555
Mentioned: 338 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2784 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
No, I hear you. If *they* want coercion, they'll attain coercion.

I'm just not sure if SPHC makes that task easier for *them.* Honestly, there's enough coercion going on with the current status quo that I'm not sure how much difference it will make.

Also, even countries with SPHC still leave an option for a private doctor. So people who are not on aboard with any coercion slipped into Medicare would still have a refuge, much like homeschooling in Mississippi.
I'm not certain either. As long as pharma is buying Congress and state legislatures and regulatory agencies, they'll go as far as they can. Which so far hasn't been nearly as far as Dorit and Offit and Pan want. Which is mildly cheering. The longer it takes to remove rights, the more people will wake up and become concerned and the harder the process of coercion will become.

We should all continue to be a "drag" in the confidence that we are upsetting the people who really want all the jabs all the time for everybody.
applejuice and Turquesa like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is offline  
#5 of 9 Old 09-18-2017, 08:55 PM
 
Tweety_Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,015
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 328 Post(s)
The problem is that the swamp is full of corporate crocodiles:
applejuice and Turquesa like this.
Tweety_Bird is offline  
#6 of 9 Old 09-19-2017, 04:28 PM
 
Tweety_Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,015
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 328 Post(s)
Actually, it is interesting to note that Canada that has a single payer system does not have mandatory vaccination and apparently it is contrary to our constitution to impose mandatory vaccination in Canada.

A couple of provinces have requirements of a few vaccines for school entry but exemptions are easy peasy to get: https://vaccinechoicecanada.com/exemptions/
Tweety_Bird is offline  
#7 of 9 Old 09-19-2017, 06:11 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 15,555
Mentioned: 338 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2784 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweety_Bird View Post
Actually, it is interesting to note that Canada that has a single payer system does not have mandatory vaccination and apparently it is contrary to our constitution to impose mandatory vaccination in Canada.

A couple of provinces have requirements of a few vaccines for school entry but exemptions are easy peasy to get: https://vaccinechoicecanada.com/exemptions/
I wonder how that got into the Canadian Constitution? And I wonder what sort of sneaky work-around will be found to start forcing vaccines? Can't have anybodies anywhere that aren't getting all possible vaccines.
applejuice likes this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is offline  
#8 of 9 Old 09-19-2017, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,670
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1751 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweety_Bird View Post
The problem is that the swamp is full of corporate crocodiles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsIcS7egnyw
I think for once we agree on something @Tweety_Bird !
applejuice and Deborah like this.

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Proud member of #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#9 of 9 Old 09-19-2017, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,670
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1751 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
I wonder how that got into the Canadian Constitution? And I wonder what sort of sneaky work-around will be found to start forcing vaccines? Can't have anybodies anywhere that aren't getting all possible vaccines.
That's why I'm considering our unique circumstances in the U.S. when I ask about SPHC. These days, it would be close to impossible (although delightful!!) to go back retroactively and get a Constitutional Amendment for medical freedom similar to what they have in Canada. It would have gone over better in the 70s, probably.

I'm curious what legal considerations went into the Swedish decision to reject legalized vaccine coercion.
applejuice and Deborah like this.

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Proud member of #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 16,635

35 members and 16,600 guests
afinemess , agentofchaos , Dovenoir , easydoesit , emmy526 , fljen , girlspn , greenemami , healthy momma , hillymum , Holisticitems , IsaFrench , JElaineB , katelove , Kelleybug , lhargrave89 , Lolita2345 , Lydia08 , mumto1 , Richard Johnson , RollerCoasterMama , Rosemarie74 , rubelin , Skippy918 , tapatio , transpecos , zebra15 , zoeyzoo
Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.