What's gonna happen to WAHM and the cost of pocket diapers? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't post here much or follow the diaper "gossip" so this may not even be true but i heard a rumor that the woman who owns the pattent on the pocket diaper is going to start chargeing almost $400 for her licensing fee. Has anyone else heard anything about this. If this is true I worry about how WAHMs will be able to pay that fee at all let alone still produce afordable diapers. Any thoughts?

Mom to Iris and Henry
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#2 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 10:42 PM
 
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Are you talking about Tereson from Fuzzi Bunz? I didn't know she had a patent on the entire idea of the pocket diaper. I thought the patent was just on her specific design for the diaper(you know, like the measurements and such). Interesting. I'd love to see what other mama's in the know here have to say. If that is the case that the entire pocket diaper is patented, this would be a HUGE problem for other wahm's just starting up who cannot afford to pay that fee.


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#3 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 10:47 PM
 
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She holds the patent for pocket diapers that have a leading edge opening (which means either the front or the back) and consist of a "stay-dry" layer and a waterproof outer. The price for the patent is $350 per year.

Amy: Certified Professional Midwife and mom to Max (11) and Stella (6).
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#4 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 10:47 PM
 
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The way I heard it, it's a patent on the whole idea of the pocket diaper, not just specifically the FB design.
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#5 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 10:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peekyboo
The way I heard it, it's a patent on the whole idea of the pocket diaper, not just specifically the FB design.
That's correct. The idea of the pocket, not specifically Fuzzi Bunz. By paying the license fee you do not get to make Fuzzi Bunz, you would only get to make your pre-existing pattern. I'm not sure how it works for WAHMs who already license a pattern like Very Baby.

Amy: Certified Professional Midwife and mom to Max (11) and Stella (6).
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#6 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 10:50 PM
 
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i am almost certain she does hold a patent for the pocket concept. i remember when i first started coming to MDC Diapering there was some talk about it. i haven't heard what you're talking about though, perhaps somebody else will chime in?
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#7 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 10:51 PM
 
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There is no doubt. She holds the patent and the new fee is $350 yearly. That's all fact, I can attest.

Amy: Certified Professional Midwife and mom to Max (11) and Stella (6).
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#8 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 10:57 PM
 
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oops! we must have all posted at the same time...i was just much slower with my one-handed typing and chasing after the new dog (poop OUTside doggie, OUTside...sigh).
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#9 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 11:05 PM
 
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LOL! A new dog, eh? I feel for you. :

Amy: Certified Professional Midwife and mom to Max (11) and Stella (6).
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#10 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 11:06 PM
 
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Here's more info...

http://69.20.14.30/discussions/showthread.php?t=398538
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#11 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 11:14 PM
 
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You can check out http://pocket-diapers.com for more info...I'm not a wahm, but this is REALLY putting me off of buying pocket diapers. I just don't think it's all that cool of anyone, it feels like patenting an idea, and if that's allowed, then I'm off to patent the idea of diapers altogether! Or pants. Or floors, or something. :

OK so I didn't invent those. But I've just thought of them, and if I'm the first, I'll get it!

I know my emotional arguments aren't legalese, but it really makes me not want to buy anything that will give her money eventually...

and this is petty, but there are typos on her patent page....whoever drew it up should be fined! by me!


oh, and I have no idea who she is, what her history is, etc...i ran across the site while going through my millions of diaper Favorites in IE, doing a clean-up as it were to dump doubles and businesses that are no longer...and I saw a link/logo for pocket diaper licensing, so I clicked and found...I have no vendetta or previous knowledge of her etc etc etc...hey, maybe I *shoulda* been a lawyer!
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#12 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 11:17 PM
 
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Quote:
this is REALLY putting me off of buying pocket diapers
Wait! I hope it won't put you off pockets all together! There are some great pockets out there that aren't Fuzzi Bunz: Green Acres, Apron Strings, Ella's (my fav), Very Baby, and more.

Quote:
if that's allowed, then I'm off to patent the idea of diapers altogether! Or pants. Or floors, or something.
LMAO!!! Floors.

Amy: Certified Professional Midwife and mom to Max (11) and Stella (6).
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#13 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 11:22 PM
 
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But that's the thing...it IS putting me off of pockets, which will be a HUGE problem, as it's been our staple. FuzziBunz specifically, but I've been wanting to expand into other pockets. But now for any money I spend on them, a little bit of that goes towards this license, and it just feels wrong in principle. But if I stuff those feelings and continue to buy non-FB pockets, I'm still, in a tiny way, supporting this patent, and I don't want to do that.

I try to live philosophically and with principles, with as few *gotta do it for practicality's sake* decisions as possible, and this is pushing my buttons!
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#14 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 11:30 PM
 
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Terson invented the idea of a stay dry pocket diaper.. so she was able to get a patent. It has been challenged and the patent office has upheld her... Its not fair to give someone a hard time cause they were the first to do something and then do what they can to protect it. I'm pretty sure the patent has actually saved at least one big WAHM pocket maker from having her design knocked off by a HUGE kids clothing business.. if that would have happened all wahms would be screwed.

That said i think the increase sucks for WAHMs Not really because of the cost but the jump in cost is quite a shock. I think if the fee had always been $350 it wouldnt be such a big deal( only $29 a month) but to go from $25 to $350 is a huge jump and hard for a WAHM to come up with quickly.
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#15 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 11:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollyeilis
But that's the thing...it IS putting me off of pockets, which will be a HUGE problem, as it's been our staple. FuzziBunz specifically, but I've been wanting to expand into other pockets. But now for any money I spend on them, a little bit of that goes towards this license, and it just feels wrong in principle. But if I stuff those feelings and continue to buy non-FB pockets, I'm still, in a tiny way, supporting this patent, and I don't want to do that.

I try to live philosophically and with principles, with as few *gotta do it for practicality's sake* decisions as possible, and this is pushing my buttons!
Well... there are some WAHMs whose pockets don't fall withing the patent perimeter. I totally understand your feelings but thought you might like to know that not everyone is paying the licensing fee.

And I agree, Tiffany, it's not the patent, it's the HUGE increase. With a diaper as popular as the pocket she would have been crazy not to patent it in one form or another. I can just imagine Pampers releasing a reusable pocket style diaper. Shudder. And there is no paying in installments, it's an all at once deal.

Amy: Certified Professional Midwife and mom to Max (11) and Stella (6).
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#16 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 11:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheena
Well... there are some WAHMs whose pockets don't fall withing the patent perimeter. I totally understand your feelings but thought you might like to know that not everyone is paying the licensing fee.

And I agree, Tiffany, it's not the patent, it's the HUGE increase. And there is no paying in installments, it's an all at once deal.
I think that sucks too... 4 installments would be a lot easier for a WAHM to deal with.
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#17 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 11:42 PM
 
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I think the jump in cost is rediculous! I understand having a patent on an idea, and the ability to protect it is important, but it seems somewhat greedy to up the cost so sharply. Up until this point, I didn't know that the idea was patented, so it's still a bit of a shock to me.
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#18 of 145 Old 02-06-2006, 11:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheena
Well... there are some WAHMs whose pockets don't fall withing the patent perimeter. I totally understand your feelings but thought you might like to know that not everyone is paying the licensing fee.

And I agree, Tiffany, it's not the patent, it's the HUGE increase. And there is no paying in installments, it's an all at once deal.
What would you consider not falling under the patent? It seems to cover all fabrics with "pervious" and "impervious"... would it be the "leading edge" opening?
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#19 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 12:10 AM
 
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I guess the only way around it is to do a "pillow insert" type thingy with overlapping fabric pieces in the middle (that makes sense in my head but maybe not to you folks ) - not very comfy for baby I reckon... no more FBs for me after this news unless I hear different....
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#20 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 12:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amysuen
What would you consider not falling under the patent? It seems to cover all fabrics with "pervious" and "impervious"... would it be the "leading edge" opening?
Well based on the link provided above...if the "pocket is not at the front or back (ie leading edge) it does not fall within the parameters of the patent. Also pocket fitteds don't fall within the patent either.

I think it is going to cause a serious drop in the # of WAHMs who sell pockets though...for many $350 may be their whole profit for the year...or even put them in the red so there isn't any point in making pockets at all.

Steph

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#21 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 12:52 AM
 
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"would it be the "leading edge" opening?"

Yeah, she even gives the example of what you could do that's beyond the scope of the patent. It gives the idea of a cross between a Rumpster and a pocket...my husband is actually trying to figure out how to do it, even though I've never expressed a burning desire to make my own...

The patent thing...to me it would be like if Levi Strauss had patented any trouser made of denim with pockets on the side-fronts and two pockets in the back with stitching on them, etc etc etc...as far as I know he didn't, since there are a TON of jeans manufacturers, and yeah they all look slightly different but the basics are the same!

Heck, one of the disposable company has a floating liner thing that looks an AWFUL LOT like Bumkins AIOs...who came up with that first? Who is going to get the patent on that one?
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#22 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 01:18 AM
 
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Can you tell me what your dh comes up with, lol.

I can give an example of the FCB and LC pockets. They have an opening that is not on a leading edge.

Amy: Certified Professional Midwife and mom to Max (11) and Stella (6).
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#23 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 01:32 AM
 
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Ooh Sheena, it took some googling to figure out who/what you were talking about, but fun!

So far hubby's idea is pretty sewing-heavy...if he pares it down I'll letcha know.
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#24 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 09:26 AM
 
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So I guess the makers of BumGenius get to pay here, too? I was just wondering about that yesterday.
From what I understand she no longer ownes Mother of Eden, though, so the patent is probably her only source of income (maybe)?!

Laura
Mom to three
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#25 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 10:40 AM
 
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Laura, I was thinking the same thing. From what I heard her dh wasn't exactly a gentleman when it came to the split so this increase is possible her way of providing for her family. I don't know all the details but I agree also that the huge jump will cause problems for the wahm's who only sell a few diapers a month.
Hilary
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#26 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think it is good that she has a patent she needs to protect her intelectual property and i feel badly for her if she needs the income but so do a lot of the mom's making her diaper why not let them pay in instalments which i think was suggested.

Mom to Iris and Henry
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#27 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 10:50 AM
 
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This just gives me even more of a reason to go to all GreenAcreDesigns pockets, as they are my favorite anyway. Think of the fit of a swaddlebees but no leaks or wicking. LOVE them! I think I'll be selling my fuzzi bunz to go to GAD.
Oh and by the way, GAD have the pocket opening about an inch down from the back leading edge.



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#28 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 11:27 AM
 
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We buy things every day that have patents on them. Tylenol, Vaseline, Coca Cola. Just because WAHMs aren't making Tylenol in their kitchens (I HOPE!) doesn't make the patent of FB any different than the patent on anything else. She made 'em first (or at least she was the first to the patent office) and she has every right to not sell the license at ALL. Which would mean no more legal WAHM pockets period.
Patents are there to protect someone's work from people copying it. And patents run out eventually. I don't have a problem with FB or her charging for the license.
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#29 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Splash- I don't think anyone is sugesting she shouldn't have a patent or charge a fee. We are just debateing why that fee has increased from $25 a year to $350 a year. That price is going to be a burden on many of the mom's who make their living making pocket diapers and for those of who cloth diaper there is a good chance those diapers are going to become more expensive.

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#30 of 145 Old 02-07-2006, 02:05 PM
 
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One thing, I don't know if anyone mentioned, is that if you already had an existing contract with Tereson she honored the orignal price... which she didn't have to do but did.

Amy: Certified Professional Midwife and mom to Max (11) and Stella (6).
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