Anyone else? NOT "conceived in love?" - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-11-2010, 03:20 PM
 
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Hi ladies- I am returning this thread. Some posts have been removed in order for this thread to remain on the boards. Posts quoting the removed posts were also removed. Please be respectful when posting. Thank you for your cooperation.

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Old 05-11-2010, 03:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by newmommy7-08 View Post
DS was conceived after 2 years of trying and nearly 7 months of fertility treatments, the twins after a year of trying and on the 4th month of treatment. There is nothing romantic about being told by a nurse when you have to have sex... (phone rings) ok DH, she said i should O w/in 24 hours that means sex tonight, tomorrow and the next day... and oh, excuse me while I go give myself the shot that will make sure I O... ignore the bruise on my stomach from that...

That said, even tho it wasn't a magical special romance novel night makes our children conceived no less out of love. Because we love each other and shared in the desire to have children we went through the hell of fertility treatments. That makes the decision to have children one out of love.
This was pretty much, us, too, and I agree 100% with the bolded section. It bothered me a tiny little bit with our first that my husband's sperm was injected into me by a nurse with a syringe rather than in the privacy of our candle-lit bedroom (not that we ever light candles, anyway), but I'm just so grateful that it happened at all, and that it then happened again (by a nurse with a syringe) that nothing else matters.

Amy (34): mommy to DD1 (11/07) and DD2 (7/10), wife, wohm, and wannabe suburban homesteader.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:07 PM
 
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I've been thinking about this thread while out on errands this morning... I think believing that you have to (or that it's better to) conceive a wanted child in an act of love/passion versus conceiving a wanted child in an act of simple procreation is...I dunno if this is the right phrase...but somewhat of an overemphasis on magical thinking (in the cognitive development sense). Assuming a bad outcome, or some negative issue, because of a non-fairytale mating story, is associating two very unrelated events.

A child that is wanted by both parents is planned and accomplished by both parents. Does it matter if the sex was great, spontaneous, or if both were in the mood from the start? I don't think so. Does it matter if sex happened in a private setting, or in a clinic? I don't think so.

Sometimes a joint marital (or partnered) goal requires work. Can sex be work at times? Sure it can. But if both partners are willing to put in that work, or to admit that some "work" needs to be done in order to accomplish their goal, then what's the harm? At times during ttc, I've been the eye-roller "wish I could go to sleep" reluctant. At times, it's been dh. At times, the sex has been amazing and spontaneous. This is, in our experience, what TTC a baby has been like after 14 years together, four children, and co-parenting.

I think dh and I have a great relationship. We're close, intimate emotionally, intimate physically, and good friends. But honestly...after a long day with the kids, and trying to conceive on the third day in a row (on cycle six, or twelve...), sex is just NOT something for which we're both eager. It takes some effort, some work, some laughter even...but we know what we want and we're willing to put that extra effort in. I don't think it's damaging to our sex life, our closeness, or our friendship.

If anything, I think admitting the challenges of TTC has brought us closer. We haven't tied ourselves to the idea that sex always has to be perfect, or desire-based, when trying to conceive a child. If that were the case, I think there would be a lot more frustration. In that case, the common goal (a child) would be subject to the very fleeting sexual/intimate feelings of each individual. I think that could be divisive.

TTC isn't always rosy. Sometimes it's easy, or sometimes just waiting for equal-enthusiasm sex works. Other times, not so much. Having my dh on the same TTC page with me is strange/weird/unromatic at times. Him saying "Did your ovulation predictor look darker today?" is not a question that puts either of us in the mood, but the answer does tell us whether or not we should have sex that day to accomplish our pregnancy goal. Likewise, "hold on a second while I go get Pre-Seed" isn't exactly a mood-setter.

When I've had a bad day, or when I was up late/early with another child, do I always feel like having sex in order to TTC? Maybe not that night, but I do it because the choice to have a child is more about a lifetime's goals than about the moods of one night. That's what I mean about magical thinking being a flawed way to approach TTC. It's not your mental state just prior to conception that matters. It's not your partner's mental state just prior to conception that matters. It's the relationship, the shared goals, and the combined effort behind those goals that matters.

RedOak ~ Momma to DS (8) , DS (4) , DD (3) , & DD 9/10 ~
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Pino- all that really matters is that your child is loved and wanted and you REALLY did try hard to get her so she was conceived in love in my opinion. You might not have orgasmed or whatever during sex but who cares, your baby is what you wanted, not an orgasm! As for your DH, it sounds like he really wants the baby and will love it and loves you so in that sense this baby was conceived in love.
That is very sweet. Thank you.

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Im quite offended by the suggestion that trying to get your spouse/SO to DTD when they arent the one immediately approaching the subject is degrading.
I hadn't checked back on this thread in a while.. It seems like this thread might have been cleaned up a bit, so I am not sure if this refers to something I said or not.. I am sorry if I offended though.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:12 PM
 
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Our DD was conceived due to my demanding of DH, "Give it to me!" under the influence of margaritas. That's loving right?

You have a loving relationship and I believe your child was conceived in love.

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Old 05-11-2010, 05:19 PM
 
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I'm not really sure when either of my kids were conceived. It is possible that that one (or both) of them were made when I was half asleep, as sometimes happens (DH: "You want to make love?" Me: "Sure babe. I'll just lay here. Have at it. Zzzzz.) But we do love each other, and our kids, just the same. I know it isn't ideal, and we all like to think that our kids are like a little spark make of love, but in the end, I think it is less about the HOW you make your kids and more about the WHY you did and the WHAT you do after you find out. In my opinion, kids made via fertility treatments, or careful charting, or even sperm banks for our single or lesbian moms might not seem as romantic, but they are just as valued, loved, and special as those made with candlelight and roses.

CD'ing, homebirthing, milk making school teacher. Supporting my family on my income and trying to get out of debt in 2013!
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:25 PM
 
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[QUOTE=lunarlady;15395456]I'm not really sure when either of my kids were conceived. It is possible that that one (or both) of them were made when I was half asleep, as sometimes happens (DH: "You want to make love?" Me: "Sure babe. I'll just lay here. Have at it. Zzzzz.)

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Old 05-11-2010, 05:42 PM
 
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DH and I's first was conceived in the throws of passion, when we had been dating a year and were in love, but no where near commitment ready. Our second child was charted and scheduled and planned.

For me it felt more like the second was conceived in love "more" even though it was a massive task that irritated us both, because we mutually decided we wanted another baby, had gotten married and and worked through a lot. But the amount of passion and raw love was way lower than with our first.

Different perspective to me. I found the deep "love" feeling to come in the form of security with DH, which we had more the second time, but I didn't realize that until after both kids.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:22 PM
 
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I have two who were conceived "in love." They were both surprises. This one was conceived in "hey why not" followed by "what were we thinking??" I like to say, we flipped a guitar pick. It came up Fender. And now we are pregnant.

In fact, this pregnancy has had a lot of "what were we thinking" in it, but I can see a shift as we begin to reorient our lives for a third. And now I thank goodness this child is coming in to our lives to force us to find some balance that we should have had the guts to find months and month ago.

I suppose we cannot change how they were conceived, can we. But we can certainly work toward birthing them in love. So, that is my focus now, as I prepare for the birth specifically and how I am making space in my family to welcome this little one.

Kim. My heart is full! Wife to Ray, Mama to 3 boys!  "Big C", our boy with designer genes, "Little C", and "Baby M" 11/2010.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:49 PM
 
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Honestly, when I saw the thread title I thought this was going to be about someone conceiving a child with someone they hate, like an abusive partner or something. I'm so glad that's not the case! And as for conceiving a child under less than romantic circumstances, BTDT. (Fertility issues.) It may not have been how I would have pictured it, but there's a lot of love all around, as earlier posters have put more eloquently. I can say that I'm glad we were able to conceive via intercourse, albeit with some chemical help, and I think I would have been disappointed to have to use IUI or IVF. But I still would think of those kids as being conceived in love.

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Old 05-11-2010, 06:53 PM
 
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Honestly, when I saw the thread title I thought this was going to be about someone conceiving a child with someone they hate, like an abusive partner or something. I'm so glad that's not the case!
I thought the same until I noticed who the poster was... I know her story from the TTC boards so knew better but it did catch my eye with worry!

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Old 05-11-2010, 07:02 PM
 
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If DF and I only ever DTD when we were BOTH in the mood we would almost never DTD.

Theres a huge difference between asking them to DTD when they arent in the mood and demanding they do or you will cheat on them/leave them which I am nearly POSITIVE none of the ladies on this thread have done to their hubbies, nor would do.

Im sure, if the hubby resisted enough, all of them would back off. I know if DF is REALLY not in the mood, I back off. Hes the same. But if we dont at least approach the subject when the other isnt in the mood... our moods would rarely match up.

Im quite offended by the suggestion that trying to get your spouse/SO to DTD when they arent the one immediately approaching the subject is degrading.
Seriously. And there's a difference between not being in the mood and not wanting to have sex. If I don't want to have sex, I don't.
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:21 PM
 
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I sure hope "conceived in love" doesn't mean "during totally awesome romantic sex" because if that's the case, I don't think any of my kids have been. I have no sex drive at all and could go the rest of my life without having sex and it wouldn't bother me. I don't think that means my children weren't conceived in love.
I feel ya on that one...

Seriously, I get annoyed with all of the things we're "supposed" to do to ensure we have wonderful, gorgeous, evolved kids who are perfect in every way and never refuse to eat their vegetables or misbehave in any way I'm not talking about the important, verifiable things like eating good foods and being supported in your pregnancy, but all that "woo-woo" stuff like striving to only have positive thoughts for your entire pregnancy and making sure your baby was conceived during the most mind-blowing and loving sexual experience of your life. I was a total hippie chick and DH and I met at herb school but that stuff's been annoying me lately. I guess it's the preggo hormones.

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Old 05-12-2010, 05:39 AM
 
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Yeah - sorta. "Conceived in impulsivity", here.

We had dated briefly but it was clear we were better off as friends. Then - SURPRISE - the birth control hadn't worked.

To make matters even better, we found out the day I started working for him, while we were sharing an apartment and talking about being roomies in a house, just after he'd decided to get engaged to a woman he'd known awhile ...

He was pretty angry at the circumstances. Yep there was questioning whether I'd screwed up my birth control. He did encourage an abortion. He was clear that while he wanted to be supportive and to not wreck our friendship, he also felt I was a huge threat to the well-being of his fiancee, and his older children.

It was a TOUGH fall. I found him another roommate for his house and kept the apartment. I kept the new job though there were days he was not very nice to me.

I kept saying, "I know it's going to be OK", and "I know he'll come around." He kept asking if I needed anything from him ... he gave me money for medical expenses without my asking, he asked how I was feeling and tried to help, and the night I had raging contractions from a medication reaction, he took me to the ER and held my hand and commiserated.

He also declined an invite to the first ultrasound -- "it'll just make me more angry" -- and kept up the cold jokes about the baby wrecking everything. He told his older kids about it grumpily, I'm told, including "and she won't get an abortion."

But when I told him I needed him to come to the ultrasound after the night of contractions, he came. And he wowed at the images. He came to the 20 week ultrasound because I needed him. He started asking me to make lists of what we needed.

At 24 we found out the sex, and somewhere around there I made sure he got to feel the baby move, and he thanked me for that. We picked out a name together, we started planning together. And there started to be conversations about how to create "family" in our own odd way.

It helped that his ex wife has been supportive with his older kids, and his fiancee has been understanding.

But mostly it's been a lot of hard work on his side and mine, to stay friends and behave as partners, and make it a loving healthy family situation even though we wish we could have our simple friendship back.

Now we're due any minute and he's a pretty proud Dad ... yet there are still a few people at work who don't know the baby is his, and I think he still doesn't get why I want him at the birth. It's not perfect but I still think it'll be beyond OK.

I think if I had to give advice, it'd be to treat the man well and be honest with each other. Some of the comments hurt but he's being honest, and it even opens an opportunity for me to say "Yeah, in some ways this is really messing up my life too - even though I'm also happy." When he's upset me I recall that it's rare for him to do so, that it's a tough situation for us both, and most of the time he goes above and beyond. And when I tell him he upset me and ask him to do something differently, he tries.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think believing that you have to (or that it's better to) conceive a wanted child in an act of love/passion versus conceiving a wanted child in an act of simple procreation is...I dunno if this is the right phrase...but somewhat of an overemphasis on magical thinking (in the cognitive development sense). Assuming a bad outcome, or some negative issue, because of a non-fairytale mating story, is associating two very unrelated events.
Seeing that two of my children were conceived in an act of love I think I disagree that it could be called "magical thinking".

One of my children we didn't plan - and I was angry about being pregnant for a while.. it took me a while to adjust, but I adore that little booger now.. and one of my sons was adopted, and have no idea regarding the circumstances of his conception, so clearly my opinion in this area has a lot of different perspectives/experiences to it.. but do I PREFER the first scenario to the others? Yes, and I don't think I would call it magical thinking. It can and has happened to many many people, and in the past, to me as well.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Honestly, when I saw the thread title I thought this was going to be about someone conceiving a child with someone they hate, like an abusive partner or something. I'm so glad that's not the case!
Well I used the phrase from a Will Smith song.. and I don't think the song had any reference to abuse in it.

"Just the Two of Us" I think is its name.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:10 AM
 
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Seeing that two of my children were conceived in an act of love I think I disagree that it could be called "magical thinking".
I'm not saying that if you believe your child was conceived in love it's magical thinking. Magical thinking is a cognitive development term that means (I'm going to totally muck this up, but here goes) associating one event with another in a way that doesn't link up with reason or actual consequence.

So believing that you HAVE to conceive a child in an act of love, or if you don't it's somehow lesser, or bad for the child, or will lead to a less-desired outcome is "magical thinking"...associating one thing (the emotional state at the time of procreation) with something completely unrelated (the outcome of the pregnancy, the moods or emotions of your partner about the pregnancy, your bondedness to the child, etc.).

Children who exhibit magical thinking (and it's not just children...at times we ALL do it on some level) believe that the reason it's raining outside is because they feel sad, or the reason Daddy left is because they were naughty, or that they had good luck because they did something good. Sometimes, as with believing in luck that goes our way, it boosts us. Sometimes, when we assume a negative connection, it's a heavy emotional burden. Either way--magical thinking.

ETA: Pinoikoi , I didn't bring up this "magical thinking" idea as a way to put your feelings down. Now that I'm reading back on the thread as it's been edited, I can see how it might look that way. I brought it up because I was really offended by the (not your) idea that it was degrading/demeaning/unethical to conceive a child unless both partners were completely into the idea of lovemaking on the night of conception. Ideas were expressed that were much more extreme than your emotions and sadness about the night of your child's conception.

I think putting so much stock in the moods of the one conception night, regardless of the happiness or goals of the marriage/couple behind the conception desire, is an example of magical thinking. If the couple both want a baby, then I think it's perfectly reasonable that they would TTC on nights when one of them isn't as much in the mood...and I think that's okay. It's wrong (I believe) to judge a pregnancy, a ttc strategy, a child, or a marriage based on how "into it" the two individuals were on the night or day the child was conceived.

Okay. I'm embarrassing myself with how wordy I'm getting on this subject. Gotta stop! ...Others have expressed the ideas much better than I have. Anyway, I hope I didn't cause offense. I wasn't really responding to you, but to some of the more extreme ideas that could be expressed on this subject.

RedOak ~ Momma to DS (8) , DS (4) , DD (3) , & DD 9/10 ~
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:42 PM
 
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dd (our first) was concieved the night dh came home after a year and a half in iraq. not exactly planned, but not unplanned either.

ds (and our 3 angels) were concieved over the course of 2 very stressful and emotionally heartwrenching years. we went thru the 3 losses first, and each one made the ttc journey a little harder. by the time we'd gone thru the last loss and entered into the year's worth of ttc ds, it was anything but romantic. it was full of temping, charting, occasionally putting too much stress on dh and then having him not be able to perform on cue like i expected, and i'm ashamed to admit it but 2 instances of me yelling at his penis for not cooperating.

this third baby, was a bit of a surprise.

i would still say that each was concieved "in love". love is a give and take, and it isn't always perfect. that would be like saying that because a couple argues, they aren't "in love". we do not love our children, or each other for that matter, because of the circumstances of their conceptions.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:51 PM
 
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I couldn't read and not add that:

This baby girl was conceived using a syringe and a man's sperm (a man who is just a friend), and DP had nothing to do with the actual "act" of conception. She wasn't even in the room.

But that doesn't mean that the baby I'm carrying was conceived in any less love than if DP and I could have made her through a sex act that required no one else's... um... "contributions" (my, that would be a huge leap in human evolution).

Just my two cents, and agreeing with all the ladies who indicated that the actual procreative act itself isn't what defines the child as having been "conceived in love."

.... but, then again, given my situation I may not really be in a position to speak on the issue, since by some of the definitions posted here I am unable to conceive a child in a (sex) act of love.

Nothing but love and light, my dears, but I couldn't read this thread all the way through and not post from my point of view.

Part hippie-chick, part type-A career woman, all mama. Enjoying life as a wife to my partner of 11 years, and a mama to our smarty-pants toddler, Cadence.

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Old 05-12-2010, 09:00 PM
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i definitely consider this conception to be "conceived in love" but it was certainly more mechanical than loving, the act itself i mean. the OPK said to do the deed on days X and Y, so i basically interrupted DH's computer work to tell him to perform.

i don't think it really takes anything away from it, but if i think about it, it is different compared to the first (spontaneous) conception. not bad. just different.

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Old 05-12-2010, 09:25 PM
 
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I couldn't read and not add that:

This baby girl was conceived using a syringe and a man's sperm (a man who is just a friend), and DP had nothing to do with the actual "act" of conception. She wasn't even in the room.

But that doesn't mean that the baby I'm carrying was conceived in any less love than if DP and I could have made her through a sex act that required no one else's... um... "contributions" (my, that would be a huge leap in human evolution).

Just my two cents, and agreeing with all the ladies who indicated that the actual procreative act itself isn't what defines the child as having been "conceived in love."

.... but, then again, given my situation I may not really be in a position to speak on the issue, since by some of the definitions posted here I am unable to conceive a child in a (sex) act of love.

Nothing but love and light, my dears, but I couldn't read this thread all the way through and not post from my point of view.
Thanks for sharing that! I actually thought right away about babies with two mamas- those babies may not have been conceived "the old fashioned way," but are no less loved for it! And of course there are all the mamas who conceive via IRT for various other reasons.

It's all about spirit and intention.

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Old 05-12-2010, 09:44 PM
 
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3 dc born through IF with doc, nurse and syringe~ no one sweet talking or murmuring other than my RE complimenting my beautiful follicles Talk about romance
our lost ones were the same, and each one ~ those here and those not, were conceived in love because dh and I so desperately wanted them.
Now this little one was a shock, a surprise, a completely unexpected gift!! In fact ~ he was conceieved in the rare time that we were truly enjoying sex again after years of my low libido from the exhaustion that comes with parenting little ones (at least in my case~ kudos to those wanting sex and even grownup snuggling~ sadly, I was content without)
Anyway~ 1 of the first things dh said after finding out about this pg after "OMG I'll be coaching til I'm 85" "OMG how did this happen?' and "OMG what does this do to my surprise trip planned for Disney?" was "Oman! I wish I knew which time it was~ they're all pretty great lately" .


So there you have it. Because they were/are so wanted and loved before they even were, I never felt cheated or sad that it wasn't in the throws of mad love, we've had that and though with aybe the exception of this probable last child~ the others made it here regardless .

All that said~ I've enjoyed this thread too and have found myself thinking on it a bit as I go about my day .

natural birthin', baby catchin', cloth addicted, intactalactavist mama of 12/00, 6/03, 10/07, 8/10 & our angelcubs three
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:27 AM
 
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#4 was an IUI baby, we got the call I needed to show up with the goods at my OBs office at 1pm and DH rushed home, made a deposit in a cup, I drove it to the office and I conceived while DH was busy at work teaching. I don't consider her conception any less than the others, because she was conceived because of our love to each other and our love of our children.

Did make for a funny story for the midwife when I was teasing hubby about something and he replied "hey, don't blame this one on me, I was not even around for the conception!" LOL

As crazy as this sounds, my oldest son was conceived by my husband an an ex girlfriend (before hubby and I had met). They were drifting apart and they were not in love. When I think of his "conception" it starts when he was 3 1/2 and his birth mom asked his father and I to raise him. I feel like I was always meant to be his mama and I feel the "love" he was conceived in was our love for him and our hard work together to heal his little heart. He grew in my heart and now I will often forget that I did not grow him in my womb and birth him. He is 14 now and I just cannot bring myself to think of his creation as anything less than a loving act and a precious gift to my husband and I.

Heather: Mama to my amazing boys A-14.5, C-13, & M-5.5, and my sweet girl S-2.5 and introducing our little surprise Liam Michael, born 12/28!
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:27 AM
 
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Also, remember that a baby isn't necessarily conceived on the same day as the sex. So a baby could actually be "conceived in love" 5 days after you had mechanical, boring sex, while you're snuggling watching a movie; or be "conceived out of love" three days after you had great, loving sex, while you're arguing about the dishwasher.

Dunno if that makes things more or less romantic.

If decomposition persists please see your necromancer.

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Old 05-13-2010, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post
Also, remember that a baby isn't necessarily conceived on the same day as the sex. So a baby could actually be "conceived in love" 5 days after you had mechanical, boring sex, while you're snuggling watching a movie; or be "conceived out of love" three days after you had great, loving sex, while you're arguing about the dishwasher.

Dunno if that makes things more or less romantic.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post
Also, remember that a baby isn't necessarily conceived on the same day as the sex. So a baby could actually be "conceived in love" 5 days after you had mechanical, boring sex, while you're snuggling watching a movie; or be "conceived out of love" three days after you had great, loving sex, while you're arguing about the dishwasher.

Dunno if that makes things more or less romantic.
So true ,so true!


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