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Old 11-19-2010, 11:10 PM
 
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Ugh.  I'm really disheartened by hearing all this.  I'm flying next month and will be flying out of an airport with these scanners...I hope they still have the old ones too.  I'm flying with my 20 month old alone and had planned not to go through the new machines...but now when forced with the machine or the new pat-down...I don't know.  This whole thing makes me want to puke.  My dh all ready told me that if they go to far with the pat down to take pictures, take down names, etc.  Ugh...I just don't know now.  And I have no option but to fly with where I live...it would take more than a week of driving to get anywhere in the continental US.

 

And I wholeheartedly agree with Mamachef and I love your quote!


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Old 11-20-2010, 07:24 AM
 
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I've been thinking about this.  There has been so much in the media about it the last 2 weeks or so.  And I am glad to have an idea what to expect in advance.

 

We are flying next month with our 3yo. He isn't very verbal.  I've heard complaints that the TSA workers were asking small children, even babies, security questions.  My child will not understand or be able to answer.

 

For the new machines, the person has to stand in a variety of positions when instructed.  Yeah right!  First of all, I can't imagine him walking into the machine alone.  So how is he going to stop in the right place and follow the instructions?

 

For the pat down, I can imagine DS freaking out if a stranger is handling him.  It could become a very traumatic experience, based on how the TSA workers react.  

 

If there are the old machines, we figure DH will carry him through.  And then if the pat downs appear to be not very thorough, I will probably choose that.  


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Old 11-20-2010, 09:59 AM
 
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I wouldn't go through them NOT pregnant and absolutely refuse to go through them pregnant. There simply hasn't been enough research or studies done to prove that their safe. Remember, in the 50s they did X-Rays on all pregnant women to make sure their pelvises were big enough to give birth and then later found out that this increased the chances of getting cancer, so even if it's called "safe" at the time, doesn't mean it actually is.

 

I feel for my sister, though. She and her 1 year old are going to be heading out here to help me when my second child is born. She is absolutely dreading the idea of having to fly and is terrified they'll take her daughter away from her ( http://www.mybottlesup.com/2009/10/tsa-agents-took-my-son/) or feel her up or something like that. She's thinking of taking the train even though it'd be at least 40 hours compared with 6 or 7 flying.


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Old 11-20-2010, 01:42 PM
 
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http://lewrockwell.com/orig3/monahan1.html

 

Written by a guy about what happened when his pregnant wife got groped at the airport.


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Old 11-20-2010, 05:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Geist View Post

I wouldn't go through them NOT pregnant and absolutely refuse to go through them pregnant. There simply hasn't been enough research or studies done to prove that their safe. Remember, in the 50s they did X-Rays on all pregnant women to make sure their pelvises were big enough to give birth and then later found out that this increased the chances of getting cancer, so even if it's called "safe" at the time, doesn't mean it actually is.

 

I feel for my sister, though. She and her 1 year old are going to be heading out here to help me when my second child is born. She is absolutely dreading the idea of having to fly and is terrified they'll take her daughter away from her ( http://www.mybottlesup.com/2009/10/tsa-agents-took-my-son/) or feel her up or something like that. She's thinking of taking the train even though it'd be at least 40 hours compared with 6 or 7 flying.

They gave my MIL an x-ray in 1979 to find out if DH was breech and would fit through their pelvis!

I won't go through one of these scanners, and I wouldn't let my kids go through one, and I've told DH I don't want him to go through one, either! I'm wondering how things will change for us... since DD is "immune compromised", the TSA supervisor practically holds our hands through security. I wonder if it will be different now. We are actually driving to Boston (from CO) next month for her check-up, to avoid flying...
 


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Old 11-20-2010, 06:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lady Lilya View Post

http://lewrockwell.com/orig3/monahan1.html

 

Written by a guy about what happened when his pregnant wife got groped at the airport.



That makes me sick.



 
 
 
 

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Old 11-20-2010, 07:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lilya View Post

http://lewrockwell.com/orig3/monahan1.html

 

Written by a guy about what happened when his pregnant wife got groped at the airport.



messed up sad story, did you notice BTW that this was from 2002, right after 9/11. does not change how wrong the whole thing is, just interesting how times have not changed and the same fights are here still and again


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Old 11-21-2010, 08:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by amaayeh View Post


This is exactly what I have been reading about online and exactly how I feel about it.  I simply won't fly if they try to subject me or my children to that.  It is UNACCEPTABLE and we are the ONLY country in the world to allow such behavior.  Ridiculous and does NOTHING for our safety.


You get searched like this every time you go through the Baghdad International Airport, after you get your bags screened and searched 4 times. The US isn't the only country to do it.

 

Personally, I wouldn't go through the scanner while pregnant.
 


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Old 11-21-2010, 12:51 PM
 
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Just found this on my poor husbands facebook. As sad as it is funny:

 

http://gallery.pictopia.com/pensacola/e/?photo_name=DP-11190308-AR-L-AR&thumbnail_url=http%3A%2F%2Fcmsimg.pensacolanewsjournal.com%2Fapps%2Fpbcsi.dll%2Fbilde%3FSite%3DDP%26Date%3D20101119%26Category%3DOPINION%26ArtNo%3D11190308%26Ref%3DAR&title=Editorial%3A+Dignity+for+security%3F

 

My husband has said post grope that he would have gone through the x-ray than been felt up like that :-(


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Old 11-22-2010, 06:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by OrangeMoon View Post

Just found this on my poor husbands facebook. As sad as it is funny:

 

http://gallery.pictopia.com/pensacola/e/?photo_name=DP-11190308-AR-L-AR&thumbnail_url=http%3A%2F%2Fcmsimg.pensacolanewsjournal.com%2Fapps%2Fpbcsi.dll%2Fbilde%3FSite%3DDP%26Date%3D20101119%26Category%3DOPINION%26ArtNo%3D11190308%26Ref%3DAR&title=Editorial%3A+Dignity+for+security%3F

 

My husband has said post grope that he would have gone through the x-ray than been felt up like that :-(

 

That's basically the goal: Here's a quote from a TSA worker (I had read another article about this last week but I can't find it this time.

 

"It is a terror tactic by TSA to get you to walk through the more thorough body scanner.  I can’t defend TSA on this one.  I have talked to the TSA officers and it is no more effective than the old pat down procedure.  They tested it out with trainers and each other.  It is purely a terror tactic by TSA."

 

from: http://www.aetherczar.com/?p=2195

 

 

Quote:
You get searched like this every time you go through the Baghdad International Airport, after you get your bags screened and searched 4 times. The US isn't the only country to do it.

Yes, but the US is the only country that isn't a war-zone or being occupied by a foreign power. We rank 33 on the list of terrorist threats. All threats on airplanes since 9/11 have been neutralized by the passengers who no longer being told to just sit there and do whatever the hijacker/terrorist/dude tells them. This is completely unnecessary and completely violates our human rights.


 


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Old 11-22-2010, 07:36 AM
 
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This video blows my mind.  A former assistant TSA administrator admits that these searches violate the 4th amendment, but says they're going to do it anyway.  (Because it's worth it to keep our children safe.)  Good thing for him that the constitution isn't the law anymore I guess.

 

As far as the original post, I'm with those who absolutely wouldn't risk the scanners while pregnant.  I've read all the arguments about why it's supposedly safe, but I'm just not okay with myself or my unborn being a guinea pig.

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Old 11-22-2010, 12:01 PM
 
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http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2010/11/full-body-scan-of-american-corruption.html

 

This link has a lot of good information about how the two different body scanners work and the radiation/cancer concerns. Scroll down about halfway through the blog post for the safety information. Definitely don't want to go through one pregnant...


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Old 11-22-2010, 01:42 PM
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-jdDE6bFow&feature=related

 

Young boy strip searched in public by TSA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4


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Old 11-22-2010, 11:27 PM
 
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A friend told me there was a special report on TV about travel and pregnancy and they said NO scanners when pregnant. I travel via train so I can avoid it, but if I were flying I'd refuse it.

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Old 11-23-2010, 08:39 AM
 
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I have a friend who is a radiation safety expert (his job is to examine places and equipment to make sure people don't get exposed to bad stuff) and he explained : "The scanners barely penetrate the dead layer of skin.  In this case the only exposure is to a single, rather radio-resistant organ: the skin.  Skin dose limits, by contrast, are 50,000mrem/yr.  Dose per scan is roughly .02mrem." and "The unborn are just fine.  They get to use your skin." I was weirded out by them at first, but after he explained to me how they work I'm indifferent.


http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/ait/how_it_works.shtm 

 

E- Ask your friend why you can see BONE in the backscatter picture, then? 

 

That's totally creepy!


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Old 11-23-2010, 05:05 PM
 
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I just flew last weekend and there are no new scanners at the Dallas-Ft Worth airport or in Madison, WI.  I was treated to a pat-down in Belize City, though....one of several I've had the pleasure of experiencing in the past couple of years.  Although it is slightly embarrassing and annoying (especially when my impatient husband has to stand there juggling our 3 year old and all our stuff), I have never been "groped" or treated with anything but business-like efficiency.  And I have never been asked to remove any articles of clothing aside from my shoes.

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Old 11-23-2010, 05:25 PM
 
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I just flew last weekend and there are no new scanners at the Dallas-Ft Worth airport or in Madison, WI.  I was treated to a pat-down in Belize City, though....one of several I've had the pleasure of experiencing in the past couple of years.  Although it is slightly embarrassing and annoying (especially when my impatient husband has to stand there juggling our 3 year old and all our stuff), I have never been "groped" or treated with anything but business-like efficiency.  And I have never been asked to remove any articles of clothing aside from my shoes.



Just FYI for others

 

Term A/B/E have no scanners, but all the other ones at DFW do.  I have two friends who have flown out of DFW in the last few days and they did have scanners.

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Old 11-24-2010, 11:49 AM
 
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I'm flying at Christmas and I plan to say no to the body scanner... I guess I'll be getting the wonderful pat down....

 

I just found this article, has some details about how the TSA is comparing different types of radiation to the new scanners. http://www.zrecommends.com/detail/a-few-words-about-unknown-risks-of-the-tsas-new-airport-scanners/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=ZRecommends


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Old 11-24-2010, 02:26 PM
 
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I wouldn't go through the scanners if I was pregnant or not.  They say Ultrasounds are safe, but I've read a study stating otherwise.  They say vaccines are safe, but I've heard from doctors that they are not.  Why would anyone trust our government?  The government doesn't trust you or your children.

 

"It's magical thinking: If we defend against what the terrorists did last time, we'll somehow defend against what they do one time. Of course this doesn't work. We take away guns and bombs, so the terrorists use box cutters. We take away box cutters and corkscrews, and the terrorists hide explosives in their shoes. We screen shoes, they use liquids. We limit liquids, they sew PETN into their underwear. We implement full-body scanners, and they're going to do something else. This is a stupid game; we should stop playing it."

http://www.schneier.com/essay-303.html

The terrorists are already experimenting with body cavity explosives.  They are already putting them into dogs. So all these scanners and pat downs are 100% useless to the next attack.  So those that go through the scanners and get groped is all for nothing.


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Old 11-28-2010, 09:35 AM
 
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Woman singled out for wearing Glad Rag:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333432/Humiliated-Female-passenger-subjected-patdown-sanitary-towel-showed-body-scanner.html


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Old 11-29-2010, 09:26 PM
 
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I fly a ton and I'm avoiding them like the plague! LOL If you can see your bones in the pictures (which you can) then it has to be enough radiation for me to not want scanned (pregnant or not). I know corpus christi, TX/Houston, TX/Chicago-O' Hare/ Mobile, AL and Atlanta, GA. None in **********, AL though. Now since the larger airports have multiple security sections you may not see them and they still use the old scanners also. These are the airports I have been in this month.


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Old 11-29-2010, 09:29 PM
 
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LOL If you can see your bones in the pictures (which you can) then it has to be enough radiation for me to not want scanned (pregnant or not).


i agree that the re is a lot to wonder about with the new scans, but this statement above is makes no sense if you can see your bones with them then why is the issue that some folks have with them is that they see the skin a little too well! bones would not feel like such an private intrusion and it cant be both ways!?


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Old 11-30-2010, 07:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by globe-trotter View Post

LOL If you can see your bones in the pictures (which you can) then it has to be enough radiation for me to not want scanned (pregnant or not).


i agree that the re is a lot to wonder about with the new scans, but this statement above is makes no sense if you can see your bones with them then why is the issue that some folks have with them is that they see the skin a little too well! bones would not feel like such an private intrusion and it cant be both ways!?


I think her point was not regarding the personal intrusion, but the fact that if there are enough x-rays to see your bones, there may well be enough to potentially hurt a fetus.

 

I personally think it's just a crock. I live overseas and have traveled extensively, on numerous occasions throughout Europe and flew through Egypt four times over the past year. Noone does what we do - it's ridiculous and it's certainly not safer - just reactive. Now that the terrorists are stashing stuff in body cavities, does that mean that we're going to have to have full body cavity searches as well? The new scanners won't detect that.

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Old 11-30-2010, 09:29 AM
 
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and what i was saying is they dont look at bones, they look at skin. and i dont see how they could look at both, its not how things like that work, so i was confused 

 

 

and if they could see bones they could see body cavities, and they cant as you mention


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Old 11-30-2010, 11:29 AM
 
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This is an interesting blog post from someone with a scientific perspective who is highly against these machines.  http://myhelicaltryst.blogspot.com/2010/11/tsa-x-ray-backscatter-body-scanner.html


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Old 11-30-2010, 10:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

and what i was saying is they dont look at bones, they look at skin. and i dont see how they could look at both, its not how things like that work, so i was confused 

 

 

and if they could see bones they could see body cavities, and they cant as you mention


Well look at the TSA link she posted.. it sure does look like the backscatter is seeing spines, clavicles, sternums.. etc

Since they use backscatter to look for bone fragments in factory farmed chicken, you definitely can detect bone with it.  http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WXV-48DXPVY-1&_user=10&_coverDate=06%2F30%2F2003&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1562645398&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9419f73b45717f9f1e6506415a3c1042&searchtype=a

T

he question is are the ones at airports as high as the ones they use for things like that..  the pictures sure look like they are

 

http://nealkrawetz.net/blog/index.php?/archives/407-Hands-All-Over.html

http://www.diagnosticimaging.com/safety/content/article/113619/1521147

 

k9sarchik, I was going to post that article too.  It is a very researched very well written and supported article.  The statistics on the doses to children are staggering and the fact that the tests that they did run and have published to the public were with one of the xray emitting devices OFF while it is on in everyday use and everyone that walks through a backscatter scanner is exposed to it, is ridiculous.

 

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Old 12-01-2010, 01:26 PM
 
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I'm a medical physicist; my job is to do quality assurance checks to ensure the safety of radiation machines in hospitals so that patients don't get overdosed.  I have three concerns about the backscatter xray scanners:

 

1) Nobody is doing QAs.  Seriously, nobody.  The dose is low, but if the machine malfunctions nobody will know, and if the TSO operating it doesn't know what they're doing and holds down the button too long, you could easily get a lot more radiation than the TSA-spun press releases say.

 

2) In most states it's actually illegal to dose people with ionizing radiation for non-medical reasons, and/or if the radiation hasn't been prescribed by a doctor.

 

3) Low-dose x-rays have been shown to cause cellular damage that actually lingers longer than that from higher doses.  Long story short, the low-dose damage doesn't trigger the cell's repair mechanism, so your body doesn't know there's a problem and thus doesn't fix it. 

 

I'm 10 weeks pregnant, and I'll be traveling for Christmas out of an airport that has the xray scanners (they announced that they'd been put in 2 days after we bought non-refundable tickets, or I would've saved the money and planned on driving).  I'll be hoping that I get left alone to go through the magnetometer, but if I get "randomly selected" (my bump could be a bomb, after all) I'll be bypassing the scanner and yelling "Opt out!!" with the TSO trying to shame me into complying.

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Old 12-01-2010, 06:03 PM
 
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I'm a medical physicist; my job is to do quality assurance checks to ensure the safety of radiation machines in hospitals so that patients don't get overdosed.  I have three concerns about the backscatter xray scanners:

 

1) Nobody is doing QAs.  Seriously, nobody.  The dose is low, but if the machine malfunctions nobody will know, and if the TSO operating it doesn't know what they're doing and holds down the button too long, you could easily get a lot more radiation than the TSA-spun press releases say.

 

2) In most states it's actually illegal to dose people with ionizing radiation for non-medical reasons, and/or if the radiation hasn't been prescribed by a doctor.

 

3) Low-dose x-rays have been shown to cause cellular damage that actually lingers longer than that from higher doses.  Long story short, the low-dose damage doesn't trigger the cell's repair mechanism, so your body doesn't know there's a problem and thus doesn't fix it. 

 

I'm 10 weeks pregnant, and I'll be traveling for Christmas out of an airport that has the xray scanners (they announced that they'd been put in 2 days after we bought non-refundable tickets, or I would've saved the money and planned on driving).  I'll be hoping that I get left alone to go through the magnetometer, but if I get "randomly selected" (my bump could be a bomb, after all) I'll be bypassing the scanner and yelling "Opt out!!" with the TSO trying to shame me into complying.


Thanks for this!  I'm concerned too about TSOs running these things.  When you go to the dr. there is a professional there and those machines are tested frequently. 

 

I've never cared how low they say the dose is because radiation is cumulative - so add up all the x-rays, dental x-rays, and all the flights, and they can't possibly say when I've reached a threshold.  This is also the reason I don't want to start my 2 year old on radiation accumulation so young.  Much radiation is unavoidable so I'm not subjecting her to the avoidable kind.

 

Then again, NO ONE is groping my kid.  Luckily I can say I'm not going to fly but that isn't really the answer.  What if I had family over seas?  It isn't fair to have to choose between health, sexual assault, or being without family.

 

I know I"m preaching to the choir here! :)


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Old 12-03-2010, 09:05 AM
 
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Just to give an update for anyone who's interested, I just flew through Raleigh-Durham and Boston Logan.  Both places had the new scanners and were sending most people through them.  However, when they saw I was pregnant, they sent me through the old metal detectors.  No pat down.  I also saw them sending moms with small children through the old metal detectors.  I didn't see anyone getting patted down.

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Old 12-03-2010, 03:50 PM
 
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Banana- I sent him the link and asked him to 'splain, I'll let you know.

 

Am I weird in that when reading more about the pat-downs I became more concerned about my possible severe allergic reaction to the latex gloves they wear than anything else? It's just the thought of flying with a violent rash just really isn't cool, ya know?


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